POLL -- CARDIO ON EMPTY STOMACH IN MORNING

[Operator]

When I was powerlifting, I had to maintain a low body weight with very low BF%, around 5%. This was so I could compete in the 181 class, the only one I could win at (I'm 5'8"). Did low intensity cardio every morning, mostly walking, after drinking a cup of black coffee. You could use some other stim. Avoided high intensity cardio for the most part, usually just once a week to maintain fitness, after eating some carbs. This went on for years with no problems. I wasn't big though, training weight was around 185 - 190, just strong for my weight.

[scott72]

When I was powerlifting, I had to maintain a low body weight with very low BF%, around 5%. This was so I could compete in the 181 class, the only one I could win at (I'm 5'8"). Did low intensity cardio every morning, mostly walking, after drinking a cup of black coffee. You could use some other stim. Avoided high intensity cardio for the most part, usually just once a week to maintain fitness, after eating some carbs. This went on for years with no problems. I wasn't big though, training weight was around 185 - 190, just strong for my weight.

I'm assuming your diet was absolutely perfect which reduced the need for high intensity.

[Kaliman91]

You just have to try and see what works for you. For me, it works at a high body fat %, but I've been around 12% for months now and it doesnt help at all. I need the high intensity cardio to go sub 12% whereas a very high bf % would be very beneficial with low intensity morning cardio.

You still cutting Scotty?
I am really sick and tired of cutting.I have been at it since Mid Oct and still working at it now. Sitting on 214-215 right now.And about 17.5-17.6 bf.Guess that serves me right. I shouldnt have ever let myself get into the 280's.

[Operator]

I'm assuming your diet was absolutely perfect which reduced the need for high intensity.

Yes, very strict on my diet with protein/fruit shakes, chicken breasts and vegetables, and so on. Always made sure I had plenty of good fats in my diet though, just no junk foods. That did get old after awhile, which is probably why I'm no longer doing it.

[Hbs6]

No its not. Low cardio shows a preference for using FFA's for fuel rather than glucose. High intensity exercise OTOH is heavily dependent on glucose.

There are NEVER times you want to use dietary aminos. That means your body has shifted to a point where gluconeogenesis is increased and you do NOT want that.

BOBO- are you saying that things like glutamine and amino acid supplements are pretty much useless and not worth the money, or are there times where you find them beneficial? I have read a lot and I have read several times that the "best time" to use aminos is right before cardio and obviously it is useless to take them at this time. Is there any time they are worth it? Thx.

[scott72]

You still cutting Scotty?
I am really sick and tired of cutting.I have been at it since Mid Oct and still working at it now. Sitting on 214-215 right now.And about 17.5-17.6 bf.Guess that serves me right. I shouldnt have ever let myself get into the 280's.

Hey Kali, whats up bro. I took an 8 week break from cutting and hung around maintenance. I got tired of it too and wasn't getting anywhere anyway. I just kicked it back into gear today for my push to 9-10% for this summer. Right now I'm around 12.2%.

Thats great to hear your that low. I hear ya, it seems like a prison sentence after awhile when your cutting for months and months. I guess it motivates ya to not let yourself get that big again.

You ready for baseball? I think my Brewers are really gonna push your cards this year for the division. ESPN has them as the sleeper team of the year. Pitching is deep as hell as long as Sheetsie stays healthy. I miss talking baseball with you guys at the "other" site.

[scott72]

Yes, very strict on my diet with protein/fruit shakes, chicken breasts and vegetables, and so on. Always made sure I had plenty of good fats in my diet though, just no junk foods. That did get old after awhile, which is probably why I'm no longer doing it.

I hear ya. Gotta take a break from it everynow and then. I did that, now I'm ready to charge back into it. Beach weather is fast approaching!

[Socrates44]

It takes the stomach around 2-4 hours to breakdown solid food into something called chyme. The stomach does little to no absorption of your nutrients. Its job is to hold the fuel and break it down into a usable source. Chyme is the mixture that goes into the duodenum (1st part of the small intestine), this is where the magic begins. However, if you drink a shake or a liquid MRP before morning cardio this might slow down your bodies ability to use its stored adipose tissue for its main fuel source.

Verdict- If you wanna eat before cardio make it a good one. Some eggs, oats and a lean breakfast meat. If you wanna wait, that is good too, but if you wait your meal should be a mixture of solid and liquid macros. I would reccomend a 50 gram protein shake with Flax and a cup of oats. This gives you the satiety from the solid food and the resorption of protein and good carbs your body craves after a workout.

[Hbs6]

A lot of this stuff has already been adressed by BOBO starting on like page 2 of this thread, and it seems to make a lot of sense with regards what to eat before cardio and what to eat depending on the type of cardio done whether its carbs or nothing at all.

[The Godfather]

A nice research backed article I thought I would throw in here:

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=747976

[anapolack]

i read before just a shake before cardio will help catabolic effects with as little as just 10 grams of carbs............hell,a scoop of protien and water right down the hatch.............**** it how much more fat can your really burn without the catabolism outweighing the rewards anyways

[James]

I used to always do cardio on an empty stomach.

Now I down a bit of protein first.

[THETEST]

What about supplements - I am doing the morning cardio at 65% of max HR, for 45 min to loose fast - but I also take CLA, some BCAA aminos, and some L-Carnitine - then I drink 24 oz of water during the cardio with L Glutimine in it -

[mpkonig]

ok..im starting a cutting cycle tomorrow....would it be bad if i did like 45 to 60 minutes first thing in the morning...and then doing another session later on in the afternoon?? also...should i not do cardio like 5 days on 2 off???


all low intensity on a eliptical with added resistance as i progress through the workout

[jmh80]

It won't be bad Mpkong. I assume you mean you are on androgens for this cut...



Regarding this whole debate of "taking some sort of calories in before cardio" or not - I've seen that, if you can stand it, do the cardio on an empty stomach.
I've had to train myself to be able to do that.
Of course, plenty of ED before helps stymie the appetite!

(I used to get reeeeeeally bad hunger pangs maybe 10 to 15 mins. into a treadmill walking session.)



As far as supps to take on an empty stomach - EC, green tea, albuterol.
I loved Basic Cuts with green tea (or ephedrine if I really wanted to crank it up) - save for the heartburn (from the cayenne pepper).

[mixedup]

OK so if i do cardio at 50%-60% Vo2 max then it is ok to go in on an empty stomach but anything over 60% Vo2 max I will need some carbs is what I am taking from going over the posts?? hope this is correct.

[LakeMountD]

Bottom line is keep the workouts to less then or equal to 45% VO2 Max for the best fat burning results that wont destroy muscle mass.

Balance of carbohydrate and lipid utilization during exercise: the "crossover" concept

G. A. Brooks and J. Mercier
Department of Human Biodynamics, University of California, Berkeley 94720.

The "crossover" concept represents a theoretical means by which one can understand the effects of exercise intensity and prior endurance training on the balance of carbohydrate (CHO) and lipid metabolism during sustained exercise. According to the crossover concept, endurance training results in muscular biochemical adaptations that enhance lipid oxidation as well as decrease the sympathetic nervous system responses to given submaximal exercise stresses. These adaptations promote lipid oxidation during mild- to moderate-intensity exercise. In contrast, increases in exercise intensity are conceived to increase contraction-induced muscle glycogenolysis, alter the pattern of fiber type recruitment, and increase sympathetic nervous system activity. Therefore the pattern of substrate utilization in an individual at any point in time depends on the interaction between exercise intensity-induced responses (which increase CHO utilization) and endurance training-induced responses (which promote lipid oxidation). The crossover point is the power output at which energy from CHO-derived fuels predominates over energy from lipids, with further increases in power eliciting a relative increment in CHO utilization and a decrement in lipid oxidation. The contemporary literature contains data indicating that, after endurance training, exercise at low intensities (< or = 45% maximal O2 uptake) is accomplished with lipid as the main substrate. In contrast, the literature also contains reports that are interpreted to indicate that during hard-intensity exercise (approximately 75% maximal O2 uptake) CHO is the predominant substrate. Seen within the context of the crossover concept these apparently divergent results are, in fact, consistent.(ABSTRACT TRUNCATED AT 250 WORDS)




Protein Ingestion Prior to Strength Exercise Affects Blood Hormones and Metabolism.

Applied Sciences
Medicine & Science in Sports & Exercise. 37(11):1990-1997, November 2005.
HULMI, JUHA J. 1; VOLEK, JEFF S. 2; SELANNE, HARRI 3; MERO, ANTTI A. 1

Abstract:
Purpose: The effects of protein consumption before strength training session on blood hormones, energy metabolites, RER, and excess postexercise oxygen consumption (EPOC) were examined.

Methods: Ten resistance-trained young men consumed either a 25 g of whey and caseinate proteins (PROT) or a noncaloric placebo (P) in a liquid form 30 min before a heavy strength training session (STS) in a crossover design separated by at least 7 d. STS lasted 50 min and included 5 x 1 RM squats, 3 x 10 RM squats and 4 x 10 RM leg presses with 2-, 3-, and 2-min recoveries, respectively. A protein-carbohydrate supplement was consumed after STS in both trials. Venous blood samples were collected before, during, and after STS and oxygen consumption before and after STS.

Results: Serum growth hormone (GH), testosterone, and free fatty acids (FFA) were significantly (P << 0.05) higher in P compared with PROT 5 min after an STS. The calculated area under curve (AUC) of the serum insulin response during an STS was significantly (P < 0.001) higher in PROT compared with P. The EPOC value from 90 to 120 min after an STS was significantly greater in the PROT condition compared with P (P = 0.01), and PROT treatment had a significantly higher RER 2 h postexercise (P = 0.04). The AUC of serum FFA during STS correlated significantly and negatively with RER 10-30 min after STS (r = -0.53, P = 0.02).

Conclusions: Consuming 25 g of whey and caseinate proteins 30 min before an STS significantly decreases serum GH, testosterone, and FFA levels, and increases serum insulin during an STS. Furthermore, the pre-STS protein increased EPOC and RER significantly during 2-h recovery after STS.






Fatty acid oxidation is directly regulated by carbohydrate metabolism during exercise
E. F. Coyle, A. E. Jeukendrup, A. J. Wagenmakers and W. H. Saris
Department of Human Biology, University of Limburg, Maastricht, The Netherlands.

We determined whether increased glycolytic flux from hyperglycemia and hyperinsulinemia directly reduces fatty acid oxidation during exercise. Fatty acid oxidation rates were measured during constant-rate intravenous infusion of trace amounts of a long-chain fatty acid ([1-13C]palmitate; Pal) vs. a medium-chain fatty acid ([1-13C]octanoate; Oct). Six endurance-trained men cycled for 40 min at 50% of maximal O2 uptake 1) after an overnight fast ("fasting") and 2) after ingestion of 1.4 g/kg of glucose at 60 min and again 10 min before exercise (Glc). Glc caused hyperinsulinemia, a preexercise blood glucose of 6 mM, and a 34% reduction in total fat oxidation during exercise due to an approximately equal reduction in oxidation of plasma-free fatty acids (FFA) and intramuscular triglycerides (all P < 0.05). Oxidation of Pal was significantly reduced during Glc compared with fast (i.e., 70.0 +/- 4.1 vs. 86.0 +/- 1.9% of tracer infusion rate; P < 0.05). However, Glc had no effect on Oct oxidation, which is apparently not limited by mitochondrial transport. Furthermore, Glc reduced plasma FFA appearance 36% (P < 0.05), indicating a coordination of effects on adipose tissue and muscle. In summary, substrate oxidation during exercise can be regulated by increased glycolytic flux that is accompanied by a direct inhibition of long-chain fatty acid oxidation. These observations indicate that carbohydrate availability can directly regulate fat oxidation during exercise.

[mixedup]

[QUOTE=LakeMountD]Bottom line is keep the workouts to less then or equal to 45% VO2 Max for the best fat burning results that wont destroy muscle mass.

Hey Lake question all this is going to change when I'm back on Anabolics right? What I mean is When I am back on cycle I should be able to go back to doing HIIT training and not worrying as much kind of in the same way I can run t3 on cycle and not worry as much about the catabolism of muscle tissue?

[moklepaul]

I've always done mine at night (works better for me schedule wise)

Seems like most people agree mornming is best though. Maybe I'll try it for a month and see if there's noticable benfits.

[OCCFan023]

I've always done mine at night (works better for me schedule wise)

Seems like most people agree mornming is best though. Maybe I'll try it for a month and see if there's noticable benfits.

I think youll be very happy with the results and may be stuck doing morning over afternoon forever