POLL -- CARDIO ON EMPTY STOMACH IN MORNING
- 06-28-2006, 08:33 AM
- 06-28-2006, 09:01 AM
65% of max Heart Rate for slow long fat burning. Use the simple rule of 220 - your age to get your max heart rate them multiply by the percentage. 80% -85% of max for HIIT
Studies show that 45 min of slow cardio is better at fat burning than HIIT within a few hrs. They are about the same when measured in 24 hrs, but by a week later, HIIT is superior when you measure it.
Personally I use the long slow method - but I combine it with very intense weight training, and I often do another 25-45 min of slow cardio in the evening. So I think I can recover easier with that approach. And I take lots of BCAAs to help burn fat and not muscle. Best of luck to you
- 07-03-2006, 09:45 AM
So according to LakeMountD's post, ingesting protien before weight training is a bad idea?? Am I reading that correctly?? Since it lowers test and Gh output?
07-03-2006, 10:34 AM
I noticed that too. It contrary to everything I've ever hear about pre-work out nutrition. Hopeing for some clarification...
07-05-2006, 08:18 AM
In the morning on an empty stomach your body has almost no chance to burn carbs - so it will burn fat and lean muscle mass. I use a strategy to maximize fat burning by taking CLA, 7-Keto, and L-carnitine. Then to save lean mass, I take BCAAs. And finally, to get everything going - during the workout I take 24 oz of water with Citrulline Malate - this opens up blood flow for areobic efficiency. I do the same thing at night, but without the 7-keto since it has a stimulant in it and you do not want them at night. I do not take protein before the workout since blood would go to my stomach for digestion and I do not want that, or any cramps while exercising. I am down to 10% bf but you goal is 5% using those supplements. What do you think?
07-05-2006, 08:44 AM
How much CM do you take in the 24oz of H2O?? I usually try to get in 2-3 tablespoons pre-wo on cardio days.
07-05-2006, 09:00 AM
I just take one very small scoop - I use Stamin02 - it tastes like cherry coolade but it does the trick. It is not as good as ephredia or caffeine but it helps endurance. good luck to you
07-08-2006, 12:27 PM
I currently run for about 25-30 minutes every morning outdoors. I used to run post-weight training on the treadmill, but wanted to leave the gym earlier. I have been running for bout 8 weeks now, basically I just want to lose the fat on my stomach. I don't look as big as I used to in my clothes but my stomach area has definitely gotten smaller. I am 6 feet and used to weigh 215 prior to running the past 8 weeks, have not check my weight since. Been lifting for bout 7 years off & on. Currently not taking any supplements. What can I do to continue to burn fat around the stomach area but not lose so much size? I would apperciate anyone's response/advise, thanks in advance.
07-30-2006, 04:11 AM
I finally started doing cardio (HIIT) about 5 days ago and I am down 3 lbs. I hope it keeps close to this
08-01-2006, 10:15 AM
I lost the most weight on a simple ECA stack- 25/200 E/C- in the morning on an empty stomach. The key to avoiding nausea on stimulants is grabbing a full water bottle and drinking the whole thing when you swallow the pills to dilute the solution in your stomach as well as you can. The problem I had with this is that I lost "weight"... including some muscle mass and I was still lifting every afternoon.
I've changed my cardio regimen a little bit as well as my pre-workout supplements. I had been taking an Animal Cuts pack every morning along with BCAA's before morning cardio and doing about 30-45 minutes of cardio- elliptical and bike. I recently changed up both factors becaause I was burning twice as much gas in my SUV going into town to get to the gym in the morning and afternoon and I only have a treadmill here at home which drives me nuts since it throws my natural stride off, so I changed my routine...
You good Military people will like this one:
I've been doing a 2.25-mile ruck march around the farm land that makes up my neighborhood. For those of you who don't know, its just walking (usually at a brisk pace) while loaded up with all your gear. No, I'm not putting on all my gear every morning, just a large ALICE pack with a collection of junk including 4 small weight plates around 5 lbs each, a gallon of water in assorted canteens, flashlight, bodyblind poncho, etc. My first ruck weight in the small ALICE pack was 34lbs and I haven't weighed the larger one so I imagine its around 40lbs with the larger bag/frame and a little bit more junk in it. I keep forgetting to get my heart rate since I never bring a watch with me, but based of respiratory rate, it not in the intensive range, although I am pretty worn out by it by the time I get home.
For preworkout supplements, I switched from the Animal pack since its too many individual pills to my other fat burner- SciFit Thermogen II. Main ingredients are 10mg ephedrine/serving along with a bunch of funky roots and caffeine from various sources. I'm still on the BCAA's but I just killed the bottle today so another is on the list for order. As far as results for this routine, I've only lost a half inch of girth around my waist in 2 weeks, which from what I can tell by measurements of other body parts is all fat. I'm still lifting in the evenings but I'm not on anything so I'm not pushing a whole lot of volume to risk setting me back recovery wise. I usually do a half hour of cardio- running or elliptical- after lifting. Results are slow compared to HIIT, but they're not near as catabolic.
09-10-2006, 05:31 PM
I line up with the "Don't Do It" side... Despite the abstracts from LakeMountD (which I appreciate - thanks!) there are a handful of other concerns. While you may burn predominantly lipids at intensities < 45% VO2max, there's a question of how the body as a whole responds to being worked in a fasted state, and what it does to your overall nutritional plan.
For years we've been told by multiple sources that consuming many small meals per day is helpful if you want to achieve a relatively lean and muscular physique. Friends and I have tried this approach and know that it works. Whether you believe it has to do with insulin management, cortisol reduction, nitrogen balance or the phase of the moon is irrelevant - it works. It seems to me, then, if you get up, down some coffee or whatever, drive to the gym and launch into a 30-45-60 minute low intensity cardio session, you are acting against the idea of keeping your body as nourished as possible 'round the clock.
When I have tried cardio on an empty stomach (yes, I tried it, too) I notice that my internal temperature seems to stay lower, and my perspiration is lower. When I do it in a nourished state, I sweat like mad and get noticably warm. That says to me, heightened metabolic rate, which means more long-term elevated metabolic rate, and more fat burn in the time following the actual exercise.
Is anyone aware of studies which show metabolic elevation changes over a 12-24 hour period between fasted cardio and nourished cardio?
09-10-2006, 06:05 PM
I am almost to 5% BF now, and have a recommendation for you all to consider if you are looking for a 6-pack: That is the only thing I know for specific fat burning on a body part. I works, but remember you have to exercise with it on. I put it on before my workout, then tack BCAA between the workout and cardio. 30 min on a stair stepper after the workout - and you will definately see results. HOWEVER, you really need to manage your diet. To really cut you not only need to eat clean, you need to watch total calories. I started out on chicken and burgers, 3 tbs flax, and 5 oz of sweet potato each meal for 6 meals, then every two weeks changed up - no burgers, then add fish to replace some of the checken, then to replace all the protein shakes, then cut the flax down, then reduce the carbs. It is painful - but who said it would be easy. My point is - cardio along aint gonna do it.
09-11-2006, 07:58 AM
You are right in that this type of early morning cardio seems to work the body in an unnourished state. It's what forces the body to give up the most during the workout. In terms of metabolism, your body has had all night to digest your last meal from the previous day (assuming you didn't get up for any midnight snacks), and the carbs, fats, and protein (energy sources) that were readily available to the body through the central digestive system and the blood stream have since been burned or stored by the time you awake the next day. Protein is used up in rebuilding muscle, hair, and poop. Carbs and fats are burned as primary fuels throughout the night and the surplus is stored in body fat or the liver (what's left of the carbs). This lack of remaining digested product what forces your body to look to what else it has to burn besides food- ie body fat and muscle proteins.Originally Posted by PSBigJoey
In terms of preworkout nutrition, we use the above situation to plan our supplement intake prior to exercise. We take BCAA's to prevent muscle breakdown and direct our metabolic crosshairs at body fat stores instead of muscle proteins. Stimulants catalyze metabolic rate during exercise, which is why its so important to have BCAA's in that preworkout formula- you risk accelerating muscle loss without them. Beyond these two, there are endless herbal supplements you can use that are proven/believed to help burn fat, and water of course is a necessity.
As for the hightened state of performance we feel when training at or above sufficient nutritional nourishment, this is best for the body when you don't want to lose anything. High intensity athletes training for sports that require the body to be constantly fed in order to perform during workouts need this kind of nutrition day in and day out. The key word here is PERFORM. Loading our body with sufficient nutrition provides us with fuel beyond what is just stored in the liver, body fat, and currently circulating through the blood stream. During the exercise, our previous meal is being digested and replentishing these energy sources. A higher level of performance can be achieved during the workout in terms of intensity and endurance.
The choice in these options is up to the athlete and what their goal is. This thread wouldn't be in discussion if we weren't, by a majority, concerned with simply burning fat off for the benefits of our personal physiques. How well we perform during these fat-burning workouts is not our primary goal. The physiological effect of the workout is. For the athletes who's primary goal is to achieve continuously higher level increments of performance in their specific sport, they need that sufficient nutritional nourishment to perform during their workouts- to complete specific exercise repetitions at higher intensities and larger total set numbers. Its why there are Olympic swimmers, marathon runners, and Tour de France cyclists consuming 6000-9000 calories per day during training and there are recreational or professional athletes who are consuming a flat 2200 and training over the threshold that encroaches over the body's nourishment.
09-11-2006, 08:46 AM
Thanks for the input, Makodhardie. When it comes to anti-catabolics, I'm aware that BCAA's and L-Glutamine are supported by peer-reviewed research.
To me, the question of fat burning is both a short term and long term question. How to get it off, and how to reasonably insure that it stays off. For the latter, I like the approach of increasing lean mass and thereby boosting BMR as well as the obvious balance of nutritional intake and expenditure (thermodynamics ultimately rule us all).
For some - for many - additional lean mass is not a plus. Cyclists, for example, don't need the additional mass, nor do long-distance runners. But for the purposes of the thread, I was just looking at what burns off fat better, and the anti-catabolics, while helpful, don't seem to me to adequately block catabolism. If you know of any research to the contrary, I'd really like to see it - I'm certainly open to changing my mind.
09-11-2006, 12:16 PM
09-29-2006, 09:17 AM
AM cardio (NOT AM WEIGHT LIFTING) is the best for cutting up on an empty stomach.
When I switched from powerlifting to bodybuilding in 2000 I didnt change my low rep workout, my 3 day split or my diet (everything in sight) I just got up 5X a day and did sprints on a track (sprint straight away, walk the curves). Before that stayed around 12% BF while PL'ing but got down to about 6% with like I said no change in workout or diet in about I would say 3 months. 3 winter months in Colorado which is the worse time to try to cut weight (winter in colorado is really like oct. to June, but this was about Jan to Mar).
09-29-2006, 09:19 AM
another trick after am cadio, dont eat any any carbs for 2-3 hours.
10-15-2006, 02:48 PM
OK -- Giving it a try...
Let it never be said I'm not open to argument. I'm giving the empty stomach cardio thing a try for the next two weeks. I'll be looking for a change in the rate of fat loss, and will report back.
10-16-2006, 04:08 AM
Can I ask at what duration and intensity?Originally Posted by PSBigJoey
10-16-2006, 07:50 AM
In addition to the cardio already being performed, I'll be adding 1 hour of 65%-70% interval treadmill.
Just found out my scheduling for the week won't make it unfed EVERY day - so my real test of this may have to wait until later in the year. But I still should get a sense of change in rate of fat loss.
10-16-2006, 08:42 AM
Just be aware of hypo-glycemic symptoms. I could never make it through anything high intensity for longer than 20 mins. I'd drop like a stone. Then eat like a pig because of the apetite stimulation. Besides the catabolic effects, an out of control apetite doesn't lend itself to the goal of cutting verr well...
10-16-2006, 08:48 AM
Hey advice is free - so here goes: 45 min on treadmill, 3.5 miles an hr, and 15 degree incline in the morning. At night after your workout - which should be high (10+ reps) to pump blood, do 30-45 min on the stair master - dig in with heels. - brings out the cuts in the quads. Of course drink pleanty of water and get pleanty of sleep.
10-16-2006, 08:55 AM
I must say I do not agree with the no carb after cardio approach - reason being that I have found it more effective to have more carbs early then taper them down with each meal till there are 0 in the last of 6 meals. And added cardio after the workout at night. Maybe the other approach is better if you are only doing cardio once a day - everyone have there opinion. When I did research on it, HIIT was better for 20 min, then slow cardio for 45 - once a day. But I think I can loose more fat on the 2 a day slow approach - no studies to back it up though.
10-16-2006, 09:00 AM
Out, Out, Damned Spot!
You can't be suggesting there's such a thing as 'spot reduction', can you? Tell me it ain't so!Originally Posted by THETEST
10-29-2006, 06:30 PM
actually there is,with the launch of topical fat loss agents such as targex.Originally Posted by PSBigJoey
10-30-2006, 07:46 AM
Yohimburn seems to work -- but you need to be under 8% to begin with to have it worth it
10-30-2006, 10:06 AM
but can it be possible with all this spot reduction gels that you get 6 packs for jus applying it but yet the BF % is not low enuff to actually get the abs naturally??
i think it sounds absurd...jus wanna noe if u guys feel the same...and have spot reduction gels even be proven to really work?
11-13-2006, 12:13 PM
Spot reduction sounds pretty hokey to me. the only real way to guarantee fat loss is the hard way. Get out and do some road work. Get on the treadmill for 45minutes a day and you'll lose fat fast.
11-13-2006, 12:21 PM
i agree. There's no way those spot reduction products really work. I tried absolution once and it didn't do jack. the only success i've ever had was getting our running.
11-13-2006, 12:41 PM
Localized releasing of adipose tissue for oxidation is possible by utilizing the correct actives and the proper transdermal solution.
AvantLabs Lipo-Ultra is a proven winner.
It is not a magic bullet but it is a supplement that when used in the proper environment is very effective at target fat loss.
BTW: this particular issue is way O/T
11-13-2006, 02:06 PM
I think they can help - but this is for folks that are already in the UNDER 8% Body Fat range - I am sure some of them also just dry some water out of your skin, but the good ones work to help you - along with Cardio and diet. If you do not yet have a 6pack, they are not going to burn one thru for you - it is more of a release of some stubborn fat cells into the blood stream. Seems to have some validity for - Yohimburn - but read the research on it yourself. The bottom line is that it is tough to test - you can always argue that you would have lost the fat anyway - or that it just dried water out of your skin. But I do know pro bodybuilders that sware by it. I believe in CLA and BCAAs as well - but how do you really know any of this works and it is not the diet and cardio? Test for your self. I have tried it both ways and prefer to use the stuff for the last 3 weeks before a competition - but would not do it for anything less than extreme fine tuning to get in the 6%bf range or lower. (my 2 cents worth)
11-13-2006, 03:53 PM
01-15-2007, 01:02 PM
my 2 cents on AM cardio: It works, LOW intensity if you use an excercise cycle your HR should be like 100-110. Trying to take advantage of the fact that your metabolism shifts to fat burning when you sleep, so Right AWAY after waking up. Start at 30 minutes and work your way up to 45min 1 hour tops. If you are starving in the middle you ****ed up.
NO caffeine or other food/supps cause that could play with glucose metabolism. Water is good though.
01-15-2007, 05:00 PM
I just pop a couple of amino acid tablets and go to work...I always do interval cardio with low-intensity for about 3 minutes and sprint or high intensity for about 1 minute. I do this for about 20 minutes usually not too extreme but i've always gotten good results.
01-15-2007, 05:36 PM
Even though this question applies more to the Supplement section, I'll ask it here anyways.
Does anyone think there would be a benefit to taking Raspberry Ketones prior to fasted cardio?
01-15-2007, 08:31 PM
how about cardio right after 90 min of HIT weightlifting?[15 min of 70% max HR]the theory is all your glycogen is used up so alls left to burn is fat
01-15-2007, 10:25 PM
Protien shake in water ... 30-45min moderate intensity treadmill or bike. DONE! Tried and True!!
01-16-2007, 01:21 AM
Unfortunately I think you would be turning to muscle protein for a great deal of energy. The morning cardio thing works because you excercise so lightly that you aren't requiring more energy then can be supplied by fat metabolism - being glycogen depleted from sleeping doesn't hurt you too much. Also hormones that control fat metabolism are high immediately after waking. If you were to wake up and excercise intensely (or the same after depleting glycogen midday) your body actually burns less fat and turns to protein. I wasn't planning on writing a book so I don't have a half dozen references handy (whoops, sorry). If you search pubmed you should come up with some interesting reads.Originally Posted by skull
01-16-2007, 04:31 AM
I've been doing Astanga yoga for morning cardio, it's the kind of yoga that the Indian warriors used to do before a battle. It raises my met rate, oxygenates, massages all the internal organs, warms and stretches everything and really gives me a charge first thing a.m.. It should really be done on an empty stomach but I start the day with 330mgs of green tea extract, 330mgs of grape seed extract and a cup of green tea.
01-16-2007, 06:44 AM
make any difference if you put epherdrine in the mix[to realease fatty acids?]Originally Posted by 8pack
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