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Will Eating More Protein Help Your Body Gain Muscle Faster

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    Will Eating More Protein Help Your Body Gain Muscle Faster


    Will Eating More Protein Help Your Body Gain Muscle Faster?

    Find out how consuming too much protein can harm your body

    By Miriam Nelson

    WebMD Medical News

    Reviewed By Gary Vogin, MD


    <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">

    <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">
    Seems like everyone at the gym is doing it: filling up on protein to bulk up those biceps. But it's a misconception. Eating extra protein actually doesn't do much toward boosting your muscle mass and strength.

    In fact, medical research shows that consuming too much protein -- more than 30% of your total daily caloric intake -- could actually harm your body, says protein expert Gail Butterfield, PhD, RD, director of Nutrition Studies at the Palo Alto Veterans' Administration Medical Center and nutrition lecturer at Stanford University.

    She says that a diet containing excess protein can have the following adverse effects:


    <UL type=disc>


    <LI class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto; tab-stops: list .5in; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1">Adding more protein but not more calories or exercise to your diet won't help you build more muscle mass, but it may put your other bodily systems under stress.


    <LI class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto; tab-stops: list .5in; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1">Eating more protein and increasing total caloric intake while maintaining the same exercise level will build an equal amount of additional fat and muscle mass, according to a study published in 1992 in the Journal of the American Geriatrics Society. [/list]


    <H3 style="MARGIN: auto 0in">Too Much Protein</H3>So think twice when you consider sacrificing the carbohydrates for a protein-dominant diet, Butterfield says. Drastically cutting carbohydrates from your diet may force your body to fight back.

    She says that's because a diet in which protein makes up more than 30% of your caloric intake causes a buildup of toxic ketones. So-called ketogenic diets can thrust your kidneys into overdrive in order to flush these ketones from your body. As your kidneys rid your body of these toxic ketones, you can lose a significant amount of water, which puts you at risk of dehydration, particularly if you exercise heavily.

    That water loss often shows up on the scale as weight loss. But along with losing water, you lose muscle mass and bone calcium. The dehydration also strains your kidneys and puts stress on your heart.

    And dehydration from a ketogenic diet can make you feel weak and dizzy, give you bad breath, or lead to other problems.


    <H3 style="MARGIN: auto 0in">How Much Protein Do I Need?</H3>The amount of protein you require depends on your weight and your daily caloric intake. Most Americans consume more than enough protein in their daily diets. A few specific groups of people are at risk for being protein-deficient, including elderly women and people with illnesses or eating disorders. A protein deficiency is defined as eating 50% to 75% of the recommended amount of daily protein, Butterfield explains.

    Ideally, you should consume 0.36 grams of protein for every pound of body weight, according to recommended daily allowances (RDA) set by the Food and Nutrition Board. So if you weigh 170 pounds, you need about 61 grams of protein each day.

    Protein should also make up approximately 15% of your total daily caloric intake, also according to the RDA. In a diet of 1,800 calories a day, for example, about 270 of those calories should come from protein.


    <H3 style="MARGIN: auto 0in">It's Essential</H3>Although limiting protein intake is important, you should also realize that protein is essential to our bodies' normal functions. It assists in synthesizing enzymes and hormones, maintaining fluid balance, and regulating such vital functions as building antibodies against infection, blood clotting, and scar formation.

    Protein is also a building block for our muscles, bones, cartilage, skin, hair, and blood. Protein-rich foods include meat, cheese, milk, fish, and eggs. For vegetarians, protein can be found in soy products such as tofu as well as in combinations of foods, such as rice or corn with beans.

    Whether you are an avid strength trainer, a marathon runner, or just an average exerciser, a balanced diet that is rich in fruits, vegetables, whole grains, lean meats, fish, and complex carbohydrates is what nutritionists recommend.

    &nbsp; [/list][/list]

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    I thought this could be a great asset to those who are new to bodybuilding in general when it comes to protein. It also helped address some issues of the over indulgence of protein with a lack of carbohydrates. Now this only covers the basic needs for a diet not one for building optimal muscle potential. For that you still need at least 1 gram of protein per body pound. Just trying to help and I liked the possible side effects she put in here as well.
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    I think she's on crack. Some of the points are decent, but there's no empirical evidence for high protein diets hurting kidney function. They've stuffed rats with unbelievable amounts of protein. One study showed that an 80% protein diet over an extended period did not effect kidney function at all. I do think some people go overboard, but I don't think extra protein will hurt. You could survive on a 100% protein and fat diet, but not on a 100% carb diet, I think that says something in and of itself. Not knocking on carbs, though... going to be at 600 g a day here pretty soon.

    David
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    Moderation is the key


    Obviously bber`s need more protein than the average person.
    But that doesn`t mean taking it to extremes like some people do.
    Of course the magazines and supplements companies are going to be brainwashing the masses into thinking that they need
    I think that moderation and a good balance is the key.
    I found that eating any more than 1.5 times my weight in lbs didn`t give any additional benefits.
    All it did was cause a bit of gas.
    BTW I aim for 1-1.5 times my weight in lbs, which equates to about 30% of my diet in protein.
    Of course the magazines and supplements companies are going to be brainwashing the masses into thinking that they need a lot more than they actually do.
    But hey, that`s business.
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    High Protein Diet Found Beneficial


    Contrary to what many conventional medical authorities, vegetarians, and other promoters of low-fat diets say, consumption of very high levels of protein may not have adverse effects and may in fact boost antioxidant levels, new research from Germany has found.


    Since "The maximum dietary protein intake that does not cause adverse effects in a healthy population is uncertain," as the researchers note, they decided to test their theory that increased protein consumption would induce greater oxidative stress in order to determine this threshold of protein consumption at which adverse effects could be seen.


    Researchers performed tests on laboratory rats, splitting them up into groups receiving one of three different levels of dietary protein:




    14% of total calories
    26% of total calories
    51% of total calories

    After 15 weeks of feeding on the specific protein level diets, various parameters of antioxidant status were measured.


    Much to the authors surprise, it was found that the groups consuming the higher protein diets had better antioxidant parameters than the lower protein diets, such as reduced lipid peroxide levels.


    "Long-term intake of high protein diets did not increase variables of oxidative stress, in contrast to our initial hypothesis," the authors concluded. "An unexpected finding was that adequate (14%) protein feeding may in fact induce oxidative stress," they add.

    Journal of Nutrition 2000; 130: 2889-2896
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    But you have to worry mostly about the uric acid formation in excess when entering a high protein diet, uric acid is tough on the kidneys and will lead to kidney stones (trust me, I had them 2 years ago from a monster protein diet).
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    Originally posted by YellowJacket
    But you have to worry mostly about the uric acid formation in excess when entering a high protein diet, uric acid is tough on the kidneys and will lead to kidney stones (trust me, I had them 2 years ago from a monster protein diet).
    This problem can avoided for the most part by drinking enough water. Soda pop and juice are not the same in this respect.
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    Originally posted by John Benz

    This problem can avoided for the most part by drinking enough water. Soda pop and juice are not the same in this respect.
    LoL... well I kind of figured that JB

    But if you're to consumer high protein, ample amounts of water must be consumed. Good article though Bobo, never seen one that indepth as related to high protein diets.....
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    Nice article Bobo. There are always two sides to a coin. I have not seen that article before either. Thanks for the uric acid post there YJ. There are still probs with a high protein diet if one is not careful. We are all here to help and let's keep doing so.
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    Originally posted by DarCSA
    There are still probs with a high protein diet if one is not careful.
    Still don't understand where you get this from.
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    IS INCREASED DIETARY PROTEIN NECESSARY OR BENEFICIAL FOR INDIVIDUALS WITH A PHYSICALLY ACTIVE LIFESTYLE?


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Lemon (1) wrote an overview on protein metabolism and the effects of physical activity on protein requirements. He reviewed existing research on protein intake for strength athletes and endurance athletes, as well as addressed the possible negative health concerns of high protein diets.

    FINDINGS: Overall, research on strength athletes suggests that an optimal intake of protein for building muscle mass is 1.7-1.8 g/kg of bodyweight per day. The optimal intake for endurance athletes appears to be 1.2-1.4 g/kg of bodyweight per day. These recommendations are significantly greater than the RDA of .8 g/kg and are only valid if caloric needs are being met. These recommendations are also based upon research on college-aged males consuming adequate energy intake. Protein requirements may be different for individuals on lower calorie diets, females, individuals of different age groups (such as elderly individuals, children or adolescents experiencing rapid growth, or pregnant women), and individuals less likely to consume an optimal mixture of nutrients (such as vegetarians).

    The idea that high protein intakes can cause kidney problems appears to be a myth. This idea has been taken from research done on individuals with preexisting kidney disorders; however, such research cannot be extrapolated to healthy individuals. Numerous strength athletes consume diets extremely high in protein; if high protein diets caused kidney problems, one would see a much higher prevalence of kidney disorders in this population, which is not the case. In addition, animal studies utilizing very high protein intakes have not shown kidney problems. The increased nitrogen load placed upon the kidney by increased protein intake does not pose a potential threat to a healthy kidney.

    When protein intake is high, water loss may be increased due to the excretion of additional nitrogen. Individuals must ensure that water intake is high to prevent dehydration.

    The potential for high protein diets to increase calcium loss appears to be only a problem in purified protein. The high phosphate content of food protein negates any effect of protein on calcium.

    IMPLICATIONS: Strength athletes should consume 1.7-1.8 g/kg body weight of protein a day, and endurance athletes should consume 1.2-1.4 g/kg body weight of protein a day, assuming that caloric needs are being met.

    1. Lemon, P.W. Is Increased Dietary Protein Necessary or Beneficial for Individuals with a Physically Active Lifestyle? Nutr. Rev. 54(4):S169-S175. 1996.
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    Protein Myths That Just Won't Die
    by Will Brink


    When it comes to the topic of bodybuilding nutrition, there are many myths that lurk around like demons in the shadows. They rear their ugly heads when you least expect them and threaten to destroy the efforts of noble bodybuilders who are determined to build stronger, leaner, more muscular bodies. Of all the myths that pop up from time to time, the "protein myth" could be the most persistent — it just won't go away.

    The conservative medical community perpetuates the myth that athletes don't need additional protein. But this same community turns from the face of scientific evidence on many issues. With respect to high doses of Vitamin C for the prevention of cancer, heart disease, and colds, there are literally hundreds of studies supporting its effectiveness. Yet, the medical community's response is usually, "There's still not enough data." Try explaining you're on a high-protein diet because you're trying to build your body to your doctor, and he/she will respond, "Don't do that; it's excessive and can lead to kidney disease." Is there one decent study to back up that claim? No! In this article, I'll address, once and for all, the protein myth.

    MYTH 1: ATHLETES DON'T NEED EXTRA PROTEIN

    When will this one go away? The average MuscleMedia reader is probably thinking, "Who in the world still believes this ridiculous statement?" The answer is, a great number of people do. Don't forget that the high-fat, low-protein diet recommendation is alive and well with the general nutritionist, doctor, and the "don't-confuse-us-with-the-facts" media. For the past half century, scientists using poor study design with sedentary people have held firm to the belief that bodybuilders, runners, and various other athletes don't need more protein than Mr. Potato Head... er, I mean the average couch potato. However, in the past few decades, researchers using better study design with real athletes have come to a different conclusion altogether. They found (as bodybuilders have known for years) that active people need far more protein than the RDA recommends to maintain their hard-earned muscle tissue.

    In a recent review paper, one of the top researchers in the field of protein metabolism, Dr. Peter Lemon, states, "These data suggest that the RDA for those engaged in regular endurance exercise should be about 1.2-1.4 grams of protein/kg of bodyweight (150%-175% of the current RDA) and 1.7-1.8 grams of protein/kg bodyweight (212%-225% of the current RDA) for strength exercisers. Another group of researchers in the field of protein metabolism came to similar conclusions. They found strength-training athletes with a protein intake of 0.86 grams/kg of bodyweight (approximately the RDA) suffered a decrease in whole-body protein synthesis. (In other words, they lost muscle, folks!) Their recommendation was 1.76 grams/kg for strength-training athletes to maintain a positive nitrogen balance. This same group found that endurance athletes also need a lot more protein than the RDA and that men catabolize (break down) more protein than women during exercise.

    How does this information relate to the eating habits of the average bodybuilder and the advice that has been found in bodybuilding literature for years? The most common advice for protein intake from the bodybuilding magazines, by various writers, coaches, bodybuilders, etc., is one gram of protein per pound of bodyweight. So a 200-lb guy should take in 200 grams of protein per day. How does this number compare to the above research findings? Let's see, since scientists work in kilograms (kg), we have some converting to do. One kilogram is equal to 2.2 lbs. So, 200 lbs divided by 2.2 lbs gives us 90.9 kg. Multiply this by 1.8 (the high end of Dr. Lemon's protein recommendation), and you get 163.6 grams of protein per day. How about the nutritionists and doctors? What do they recommend? The RDA is 0.8 grams of protein/kg of bodyweight. So a 200-lb or 90.9-kg guy with a protein intake of 0.8 grams/kg would consume 73 grams of protein per day. Who is closer to Dr. Lemon's recent protein intake recommendations? Obviously, the bodybuilder.

    Some bodybuilders use 30% as the proper percentage of calorie intake from protein. There may be a time when the bodybuilder wants to exceed this percentage: e.g., during dieting. It is well established that carbs are "protein sparing," so more protein (perhaps up to 40%) is needed as a person reduces carbs during dieting. Let's say our 200-lb friend reduced his calories to 2,000 calories per day in an attempt to reduce his bodyfat for a competition, prepare for summer at the beach, or win Bill Phillips' Lamborghini Diablo. Back to the math: 40% protein x 2,000 calories = 800 calories from protein or 200 grams of protein (800 calories . 4 calories per gram of protein). As you can see, he's dieting but still within the range of the current research recommendations. And, protein is the least likely nutrient to be converted to bodyfat.

    Bottom line? High-protein diets are better for reducing bodyfat, increasing muscle mass, and helping the hard-training bodybuilder achieve his/her goals.

    MYTH 2: HIGH-PROTEIN DIETS ARE DANGEROUS

    The average Muscle Media reader may still be bothered by another myth about protein intake: that is, "High-protein diets are bad for the kidneys and will lead to osteoporosis." What are the medical facts behind these claims? For starters, the kidney-function damage caused by high protein diets is based on studies done with people who had preexisting kidney problems.

    One of the jobs of the kidneys is to excrete urea (generally a nontoxic compound) that is formed from ammonia (a very toxic compound) which comes from the protein in our diets. People with kidney problems may have trouble excreting urea, and a high-protein diet increases the stress. How this logic gets extended to, "A high-protein diet is hard on the kidneys of healthy athletes," I have no idea.

    Now for the medical facts. There is not a single study, published in a reputable, peer-reviewed journal, using healthy adults that has shown any kidney dysfunction whatsoever from a high-protein diet. In the real world, where millions of athletes have been following high protein diets for decades, there has never been a reported case of kidney failure in a healthy athlete attributable to a high-protein diet. If the high-protein diet were putting undo stress on our kidneys, we would have seen many cases of kidney abnormalities. As a trainer of many top athletes, I've known guys who ate much more than what the above research recommends (even more than 600 grams of protein per day!) who showed no kidney dysfunction, and I personally read the damn blood tests! Bottom line? One to 1.5 grams of protein per pound of bodyweight will have no ill effects on the kidney function of a healthy athlete. Period.

    What about the osteoporosis claim? That's a bit more complicated, but the conclusion's the same. The pathology of osteoporosis involves a combination of many risk factors and physiological variables such as macronutrient (carbs, proteins, fats) intake, micronutrient (vitamins, minerals, etc.) intake, hormonal profiles, lack of exercise, gender, family history, etc. The theory is high-protein intakes raise the acidity of the blood, and the body must use minerals from bone stores to "buffer" the blood and bring the acidity down, thus depleting the bones of minerals. Even if there were a clear link between a high-protein diet and osteoporosis (and there isn't), athletes have few of the above risk factors, as they tend to get plenty of exercise, calories, minerals, vitamins, and have positive hormonal profiles. There are millions of athletes who follow high-protein diets without any signs of premature bone loss. Bottom line? A high-protein diet doesn't lead to osteoporosis in healthy athletes who have few risk factors, especially if the protein intake is within the range discussed in this article.

    MYTH 3: ALL PROTEINS ARE CREATED EQUAL

    How many times have you heard this ridiculous statement? Yes, to a sedentary couch potato who doesn't care that his butt is the same shape as the cushion he's sitting on, protein quality is of little concern. However, research has shown repeatedly that different proteins have various functional properties athletes can take advantage of. For example, whey protein has been shown to improve immunity in a variety of situations.

    Whey protein is also high in branched-chain amino acids which are beneficial to athletes. I could go on all day about the various functional properties of different proteins, such as nitrogen retention and IGF stimulation. The fact is that science is rapidly discovering proteins with unique amino acid ratios have very different effects on the human body. Bottom line? Realize the important differences between proteins, and then choose your proteins wisely; you'll soon be on your way to a muscular body.

    CONCLUSION

    The protein myths discussed in this article have been lurking around for so long that they've just been accepted as truth. Now there is the proper research to kill these fallacies and dispel the protein myths
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    Just some more articles on High Protein diets and Myths. Mostly opinion though but they make a strong case about previous research.
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    The High Risks of High Protein Diets


    The High Risks of High Protein Diets

    By Karen Kupinski, R.D., contributing writer to healthatoz

    If you are a dieter who likes meat, then a high protein diet may strike you as a meal plan&nbsp;made in&nbsp;heaven. Bacon and eggs for breakfast. Fried chicken for lunch. Steak for dinner.

    But before you raise the bunless brger to your lips, you should read beyond the high protein diet books to what the American Heart Association (AHA) has to say. The AHA has issued a warning about the dangers of high protein diets, saying that they have the potential to put you at risk for cardiovascular disease, particularly heart attacks. If that's not convincing enough, maybe this is: They don't work.

    "There are no short term or long term studies proving that their effectiveness," says Barbara Howard, Ph.D., a member of the AHA's Nutrition Committee.

    High protein diets have been around since the 1960's but are enjoying a resurgence, thanks to best selling diet&nbsp;books (including one by the father of high protein diets himself, Dr. Robert Atkins.)&nbsp;A study that was reported in the AHA publication Circulation compared five different diets - the Atkins' diet, the Zone, Protein Power, Sugar Busters, and the Stillman Diet.

    According&nbsp;to the AHA nutrition committee, the Protein Power diet has the highest fat content with 54 percent of total calories from fat. Atkins has the next highest with 53 percent, and Stillman, the Zone, and Sugar Busters have 33 percent, 30 percent, and 21 percent, respectively.&nbsp;

    These diets diet plans advocate that you ditch carbohydrates and replace them with high protein foods. In this diet game plan, you bring on the meat, eggs, and dairy and cut out carrots and potatoes.

    The AHA isn't the only health&nbsp;organization to criticize low carbohydrate, high protein diets. The American Diabetes Association (ADA) &nbsp;says these meal plans are "not in sync" with its nutrition reccomendations.

    The Science behind the diet

    According to Howard, these diets work initially because "when you eat more protein and fat, the body produces ketone bodies, which cause you to lose fluid. The initial weight loss is actually water."

    Ketone bodies are the fuel our bodies get from fat. If we eat too few carbohydrates or we starve ourselves, ketone bodies build up in the bloodstream. Ketosis is the condition of having too many ketone bodies in the bloodstream, which must be excreted by urine. This is why fluid loss occurs. After time, ketosis causes a loss of appetite and nausea, which eventual results in consuming fewer calories. So the real reason people lose weight is not because of&nbsp;some magical combination of protein and carbohydrate.&nbsp;Rather, they eat less and have a dramatic loss of body water.

    &nbsp;High protein diets cause dehydration for this very reason. According to the AHA, high protein diets can&nbsp;increase these other following health risks:

    1. High Protein diets are high in fat, and, therefore, can increase the risk&nbsp;of heart disease.&nbsp;Meat, eggs, and dairy products contain saturated fats, and eating too much of them can raise artery-clogging cholesterol levels in the blood, a known risk factor for heart disease.

    "Since it's difficult to follow a high protein diet without eating a lot of meat, people will be more likely consuming more saturated fat," Howard says. The AHA advises restricting saturated fat to less than 10 percent of total calories, which is difficult, if not impossible, on high protein diet regimens.

    2. High protein diets can actually accelerate the development of diabetic kidney disease.&nbsp;When protein is broken down in the body, the kidneys process the by-products, putting a tremendous strain on the kidneys.

    3. High protein diets can be bad for&nbsp;your bones. High protein diets severely restrict certain fruits, vegetables and whole grains, which help protect against osteoporosis.

    4. High protein diets lack critical nutrients. Restricting carbohydrates means you restrict plant based foods, which are rich in "phytochemicals." These phytochemicals are rich in anti-oxidants and offer protection against cancer and other diseases, such as hypertension. Also, vitamin and mineral difficiencies may occur because of the limitation of healthful, nutrient-dense foods.

    Making a High Protein Diet Safe

    If you still are interested in a high protein diet,&nbsp;then AHA has the following recommendations:

    1. Make sure&nbsp;that total protein intake is not excessive. The average American diet provides plenty of protein - nearly double what the recommended daily allowance (RDA) is. The RDA of protein for the average, sedentary adult is only 0.8 grams per kilogram of body weight. (Pregnant or lactating women, children, adolescents and endurance trainers typically need more protein.) To find out your average individual need, perform the following calculation: Body weight (in pounds) x 0.36 = recommended protein intake

    2. Do not omit or severly restrict carbohydrates. A minimun of 100 grams of carbohydrates per day is recommended to ensure overall nutritional adequacy. According to the ADA, Americans consume a moderate amount of carbohydrates. On average, about 40 to 45 percent of their calories are carbohydrates.

    3. Make sure that selected protein foods do not contribute to&nbsp;excess total fat, saturated fat or cholestorol.

    4. To safely follow a high protein diet over the long term, make sure it provides adequate nutrients that are found in fruits, vegetables, and in whole grains.

    What is the best way to lose weight?

    Losing weight isn't easy, but it's not as complicated as some diet books would have us believe.

    "The key to losing weight is eating less and becoming more active," Howard says. She warns against drastic changes and emphasizes moderation in eating.

    You have to burn 3500 calories to lose a pound of fat. If you regularly consume 2000 calories a day, you would have to shave off 500 calories a day to take off a pound a week. Fast weight loss (more than 1 to 2 pounds a week) usually reflects a loss in water instead of fat.

    A slow but steady approach to weight loss, which involves cutting back calories and stepping up exercise, won't lead to quick and dramatic results. Yet, it's the same practical&nbsp;advice nutritionists have been preaching for years.

    "People hoping to lose weight have to make a life long commitment to a healthy diet and regular exercise program," says Laurie Jones, R.D., cardiac nutritionist and weight loss specialist in New York City. Her plan for successful weight loss includes eating more fruits, vegetables, and whole grains, some of the exact foods that these high protein diets restrict.

    Jones encourages clients to eat a variety of foods and not to eliminate any one food group. Teaching clients correct proportion control but allowing them wide latitude in their food selections is what enables her clients to stay committed for the long haul.

    "There is no magic bullet or secret to losing weight," Jones stresses. "Eating less and exercising more should do the job for most folks."

    External Sources

    St. Jeor S, Howard B, Prewitt E, Bovee V, Baxxarre T, Eckel R. Dietary protein and weight reduction: A statement for healthcare professionals from the nutrition committee of the council of nutrition, physical activity, and metabolism of the American Heart Association, Circulation. 2001; 104:1869-1879.

    The American Heart Association

    The American Diabetes Association
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    Re: The High Risks of High Protein Diets


    Originally posted by DarCSA
    The High Risks of High Protein Diets


    "There are no short term or long term studies proving that their effectiveness," says Barbara Howard, Ph.D., a member of the AHA's Nutrition Committee.





    The American Diabetes Association
    Wrong. Explanation above.

    Journal of Nutrition 2000; 130: 2889-2896

    High Protein Intake Improves Your Blood Coagulation And Hepatic Function

    When compared to low protein intakes, eating a diet high in protein, seems to allow patients who tend to bleed to clot more easily. Several nutrients affect coagulation, such as vitamin K are needed by the liver to produce coagulation factors in the body. Research has found that a diet low in protein and high in carbohydrates actually impairs liver function especially in the early stages of malfunction.

    (Journal Of Nutrition 1997: 127: 1279 - 1283)

    Eating protein can help you lower your "bad" cholesterol and increase "good" cholesterol

    In an Canadian study, two groups of patients with relatively high blood cholesterol levels were randomly assigned to follow a low- or high protein diet for five weeks and then switched to the alternative diet for another five weeks. Fasting blood samples were drawn and tested on a weekly basis. The results showed that when dietary proteins were exchanged for carbohydrates, the low-density lipoprotein (LDL) or what we commonly refer to "bad" cholesterol, was significantly reduced. In addition, high-density lipoprotein (HDL) or "good" cholesterol, was significantly increased. Additionally, fasting total triglycerides were reduced by a whooping 23% as well. This study is significant because it supports protein intake and not carbohydrates, as a means of reducing atherosclerosis

    (Canadian Journal Of Cardiology 1995; 11 - Supp G: 127G-131G)



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    Re: The High Risks of High Protein Diets


    Originally posted by DarCSA
    The High Risks of High Protein Diets
    1. High Protein diets are high in fat, and, therefore, can increase the risk&nbsp;of heart disease.&nbsp;Meat, eggs, and dairy products contain saturated fats, and eating too much of them can raise artery-clogging cholesterol levels in the blood, a known risk factor for heart disease.
    Wrong again.

    Effects of a Very-Low-Carbohydrate Diet

    Program Compared With a Low-Fat, Low-

    Cholesterol, Reduced-Calorie Diet (NASSO

    Young Investigator Award Finalist)

    W. S. Yancy Jr., R. Bakst, W. Bryson, K. F. Tomlin,

    C. E. Perkins, E. C. Westman, Duke University

    Medical Center, Durham, NC


    These represent randomized controlled trial comparing the Atkins Diet with a conventional low-fat, high-carbohydrate plan that restricted daily caloric intake to 1200-1500 kcal for women and 1500-1800 kcal for men.[10] The study included 63 obese (BMI 33.8 ± 3.4 kg/m2 ) males and females who were randomized to 1 of the 2 diets. Subjects received an initial session with a dietitian to explain the assigned diet program. At 12 weeks, the researchers found that the Atkins group had a lower rate of attrition (12%) compared with that of the conventional program (30%). In addition, subjects in the Atkins group lost significantly more weight (8.5 ± 3.7%) compared with the conventional group (3.7 ± 4.0%). In terms of serum lipids, the Atkins group demonstrated slight increases in total cholesterol (TC; 2.2 ± 16.6%) and low-density lipoprotein (LDL) cholesterol (6.6 ± 20.7%), whereas the conventional group showed significant decreases in these measures (TC -8.2 ± 11.5%; LDL -11.1 ± 19.4%). High-density lipoprotein (HDL) cholesterol significantly increased in the Atkins group (11.5 ± 20.6%) but did not change in the conventional group, whereas triglycerides showed a significant decrease for the Atkins group (-21.7 ± 27.9%) and no change in the conventional group. At 26 weeks, these changes persisted in both groups even though the sample size was smaller. The researchers concluded that the Atkins Diet produced favorable effects on weight, HDL, triglycerides, and retention compared with a conventional low-fat, low-calorie program, whereas the conventional plan was associated with more favorable effects on TC and LDL cholesterol.
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    Re: The High Risks of High Protein Diets


    Originally posted by DarCSA


    2. High protein diets can actually accelerate the development of diabetic kidney disease.&nbsp;When protein is broken down in the body, the kidneys process the by-products, putting a tremendous strain on the kidneys.

    3. High protein diets can be bad for&nbsp;your bones. High protein diets severely restrict certain fruits, vegetables and whole grains, which help protect against osteoporosis.

    4. High protein diets lack critical nutrients. Restricting carbohydrates means you restrict plant based foods, which are rich in "phytochemicals." These phytochemicals are rich in anti-oxidants and offer protection against cancer and other diseases, such as hypertension. Also, vitamin and mineral difficiencies may occur because of the limitation of healthful, nutrient-dense foods.



    The American Heart Association

    The American Diabetes Association
    1. Sorry, wrong. Check posts above. No study on a normal human with normal kidney functions shown any negative aspects.

    2. Wrong again. Veggies are consumed in abundance. If your going to slam the diet, understand it first.

    3. Wrong again. Check anti-oxidant study posted above. Low protein diets had worse effect. High protein diets were favorable.



    And last but not least out favorite orginzation who funded this study (The American Heart Association ) just admitted the Atkins diet as favorable because of the recent Harvard studies. No wonder Dr. Atkins i sposted on every show with a big smile on his face. He was funny on Donahue.
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    &nbsp;
    Avoid High-Protein Diets, Says AHA

    &nbsp;

    The American Heart Association has joined the U.S. Department of Agriculture, the American College of Sports Medicine, the American Dietetic Association, the Women’s Sports Foundation, and the Cooper Institute for Aerobic Research in saying that high-protein, low-carbohydrate weight loss diets are not the way to go.

    Writing in the October 9, 2001, <B><I>Circulation</I></B>, an AHA panel of nutrition experts say that high-protein, low-carbohydrate diets work, but only for a few weeks, after which the weight loss is usually regained. Plus, say the experts, such diets do not satisfy nutritional needs and can pose serious health threats to people who follow them for more than a short time.

    High protein diets typically emphasize foods such as meat and eggs – which are high in saturated fat – and limit foods high in carbohydrates, such as fruit, vegetables, whole grains and nonfat milk products -- which provide important nutrients and fiber.

    The official summary of the report explains why such diets work<B>:</B> "Eliminating carbohydrates causes a loss of body fluids... prevent the body from completely burning fat... and form substances called ketones... Ketosis makes dieting easier because it lowers appetite and may cause nausea."

    Unfortunately – or fortunately – most people can’t tolerate such diets for long, and when they resume eating a normal diet, including carbohydrates, the water loss is restored and the weight regained.

    The nutrition experts also counter the popular premise of high protein diets<B>: </B>Excess carbohydrates cause elevated insulin levels, which in turn promotes fat storage. "In fact," say the experts, "protein intake also stimulates insulin secretion." The best way to combat insulin resistance and excessive insulin production is with caloric reduction, weight loss and exercise, according to the panel.

    <B>The Bodybuilding Connection</B>There’s more to the story for bodybuilders, however. Jeff Everson, the editor and publisher of the free magazine <I><B>Planet Muscle </B></I>(800-940-5978), says the down and dirty reason why such diets typically don’t bring about the desired results is anabolic steroids. "Steroid users can process much more dietary nitrogen for a variety of metabolic purposes, including energy production, than can non-steroid users," Everson wrote recently. In the other words, steroid users can train productively on far fewer carbohydrates than a natural athlete. "Indeed," explains Everson, "most of the <I>hard gainers</I> are non-steroid users who are brain-washed to follow a steroid-user workout and also think they have to eat only proteins."

    The truth, according to Everson, is that people – especially hard training athletes -- need plenty of "low glycemic" carbohydrates for energy and health. Highly refined carbohydrates and sweets, however, can be a problem for athletes and nonathletes alike.<B>
    Health Risks
    </B>The amount of protein recommended in high-protein diets raises serious health concerns, according to the AHA panel of nutrition experts. The panel recognizes that people engaged in intense strength and/or endurance training require extra protein, but they say that most Americans already consume more protein than their bodies need. Such diets typically exceed established requirements for both athletes and nonathletes. Excessive protein can be a problem, because it usually carries along with it excessive amounts of saturated fat and cholesterol. High protein diets typically call for 25 to 35 percent of daily calories from protein and up to 68 percent of calories from fat. Such diets leave little room for healthy, nutrition-packed carbohydrate foods.&nbsp;

    The specific health risks listed by the panel include<B>:</B><!--mstheme--><!--msthemelist-->


    <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><!--msthemelist-->


    <TBODY>


    <TR>


    <TD vAlign=baseline width=42><IMG height=15 hspace=13 src="http://www.cbass.com/_themes/blends1/blebul1d.gif" width=15></TD>


    <TD vAlign=top width="100%"><!--mstheme-->&nbsp;Raised LDL-cholesterol and blood pressure, which increase the risk of heart disease and stroke. (Saturated fat raises "bad" cholesterol and limiting carbohydrates may raise blood pressure.)
    <!--mstheme-->
    <!--msthemelist--></TD></TR><!--msthemelist-->


    <TR>


    <TD vAlign=baseline width=42><IMG height=15 hspace=13 src="http://www.cbass.com/_themes/blends1/blebul1d.gif" width=15></TD>


    <TD vAlign=top width="100%"><!--mstheme-->&nbsp;Increased risk of gout and osteoporosis in susceptible people. (High protein foods increase uric acid levels and may cause gout, a form of arthritis. They also increase urinary calcium loss, which may lead to osteoporosis.)
    <!--mstheme-->
    <!--msthemelist--></TD></TR><!--msthemelist-->


    <TR>


    <TD vAlign=baseline width=42><IMG height=15 hspace=13 src="http://www.cbass.com/_themes/blends1/blebul1d.gif" width=15></TD>


    <TD vAlign=top width="100%"><!--mstheme-->&nbsp;Increased risk of diabetes and in some cases cancer. (High protein diets are "especially risky" for diabetics, because they can "speed the progression" of diabetic kidney disease; eating more protein makes the kidneys work harder and could lead to failure. Severe restriction of fruits, vegetables, beans and whole grains may increase cancer risk.)
    <!--mstheme-->
    <!--msthemelist--></TD></TR><!--msthemelist-->


    <TR>


    <TD vAlign=baseline width=42><IMG height=15 hspace=13 src="http://www.cbass.com/_themes/blends1/blebul1d.gif" width=15></TD>


    <TD vAlign=top width="100%"><!--mstheme-->&nbsp;Increased chance of deficiencies in essential vitamins, minerals and fiber, which can have adverse health effects if allowed to continue.
    <!--mstheme-->
    <!--msthemelist--></TD></TR><!--msthemelist-->


    <TR>


    <TD vAlign=baseline width=42><IMG height=15 hspace=13 src="http://www.cbass.com/_themes/blends1/blebul1d.gif" width=15></TD>


    <TD vAlign=top width="100%"><!--mstheme-->&nbsp;Greater fatigue during and after exercise. (Restriction of carbohydrates depletes muscle glycogen.)<!--mstheme--><!--msthemelist--></TD></TR><!--msthemelist--></TBODY></TABLE><!--mstheme-->For permanent weight loss and health, the AHA recommends a diet made up of approximately 15 percent protein (slightly higher for athletes), 30 percent fat (or less) and 55 percent carbohydrate (slightly higher for athletes) – combined with regular exercise.

    To lose weight, eat slightly fewer calories than you burn. Exercise makes the process easier and preserves muscle. To maintain body weight, balance calories in and calories out, and continue to exercise. An enjoyable diet substantially increases your chances of success.<!--msthemeseparator-->


    This is citing from the same source but goes on to include the athlete in mind as well. This helps explain a little more why an excess of protein in the body can be harmful. This is the last one for tonight, time to get some sleep it takes a little while when I had to write the other one out.
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    Read above. Its the same old garbage they've been saying all along and its being refuted and proven wrong everyday. I don't want articles, give me proof, not opinion.
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    Re: The High Risks of High Protein Diets


    Originally posted by DarCSA


    "There are no short term or long term studies proving that their effectiveness," says Barbara Howard, Ph.D., a member of the AHA's Nutrition Committee.

    I'll give her this. She was right about a long term study as it wasn't conducted yet, but she was wrong about short term effects. Here's the 6 month study.

    Effect of 6-month adherence to a very low carbohydrate diet program.

    Westman EC, Yancy WS, Edman JS, Tomlin KF, Perkins CE.

    Division of General Internal Medicine, Duke University, 2200 West Main Street, Durham, NC 27705, USA. ewestman~duke.edu

    To determine the effect of a 6-month very low carbohydrate diet program on body weight and other metabolic parameters. Fifty-one overweight or obese healthy volunteers who wanted to lose weight were placed on a very low carbohydrate diet (<25 g/d), with no limit on caloric intake. They also received nutritional supplementation and recommendations about exercise, and attended group meetings at a research clinic. The outcomes were body weight, body mass index, percentage of body fat (estimated by skinfold thickness), serum chemistry and lipid values, 24-hour urine measurements, and subjective adverse effects. Forty-one (80%) of the 51 subjects attended visits through 6 months. In these subjects, the mean (+/- SD) body weight decreased 10.3% +/- 5.9% (P <0.001) from baseline to 6 months (body weight reduction of 9.0 +/- 5.3 kg and body mass index reduction of 3.2 +/- 1.9 kg/m(2)). The mean percentage of body weight that was fat decreased 2.9% +/- 3.2% from baseline to 6 months (P <0.001). The mean serum bicarbonate level decreased 2 +/- 2.4 mmol/L (P <0.001) and blood urea nitrogen level increased 2 +/- 4 mg/dL (P <0.001). Serum total cholesterol level decreased 11 +/- 26 mg/dL (P = 0.006), low-density lipoprotein cholesterol level decreased 10 +/- 25 mg/dL (P = 0.01), triglyceride level decreased 56 +/- 45 mg/dL (P <0.001), high-density lipoprotein (HDL) cholesterol level increased 10 +/- 8 mg/dL (P <0.001), and the cholesterol/HDL cholesterol ratio decreased 0.9 +/- 0.6 units (P <0.001). There were no serious adverse effects , but the possibility of adverse effects in the 10 subjects who did not adhere to the program cannot be eliminated. A very low carbohydrate diet program led to sustained weight loss during a 6-month period . Further controlled research is warranted
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    "The nutrition experts also counter the popular premise of high protein diets: Excess carbohydrates cause elevated insulin levels, which in turn promotes fat storage. "In fact," say the experts, "protein intake also stimulates insulin secretion." The best way to combat insulin resistance and excessive insulin production is with caloric reduction, weight loss and exercise, according to the panel. "

    Well another way is too eat lower GI CARBS!

    And insulin secretion is reduced by almost 50% when fat is included.
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    low carb high protein diets increase....


    <H1>Low-carbohydrate, high-protein diets increase risk of kidney stones and may raise bone-loss risk</H1>
    <!-- content id=uch_002021 -->

    <META content="Low-carbohydrate, high-protein diets increase risk of kidney stones and may raise bone-loss risk" name="">



    <B>Contact:</B>
    target=_top&gt;John Easton
    (773) 702-6241

    <B>Embargoed Until:</B>
    August 1, 2002

    "Popular low-carbohydrate, high-protein diets may result in rapid weight loss, but they also appear to pose serious health problems, including increased risk of kidney stones and bone loss," report researchers from the University of Chicago and the University of Texas Southwestern in the August issue of The American Journal of Kidney Diseases.

    "High protein, low carbohydrate diets clearly produced changes that substantially increase the risk of kidney stone formation if continued over time. Our study was too brief to show diet induced osteoporosis, but our data suggests this may be another potential risk," said Shalini Reddy, M.D., assistant professor of medicine at the University of Chicago and lead author of the study.

    In this study, 10 healthy subjects ate a regular diet for two weeks. They followed that with two weeks on a highly restrictive diet that included some vegetables but no fruits and fewer than 20 grams of carbohydrates. Participants then ate a slightly less-restrictive diet for the final four weeks.

    A diet heavy on animal proteins and light on carbohydrates does increase fat metabolism--which can increase the amount of acid in the blood. The researchers found that acid excretion--a marker for the acid load in the blood--increased as much as 90 percent while subjects were on diets that severely restricted carbohydrates. They also found that calcium absorption was unchanged but calcium excretion increased.

    The diet produced changes in urine chemistry--higher levels of uric acid and calcium--that enhance the propensity to form stones. The increased acid load in the blood may also suppress the function of cells that make new bone and stimulate the cells that break down bone, suggesting that much of the calcium being excreted was leached from bone.

    "This short-term metabolic study stresses that a low-carbohydrate high protein diet may enhance the risk for stone formation and bone loss," conclude the authors. Patients who pursue weight loss, they suggest, "should be made aware of a potential increase in risk for kidney stone formation and and unknown long-term risk to bone health." The study was funded in part by the United States Public Health Service.




    <CENTER>The University of Chicago Medical Center
    Office of Public Affairs
    5841 South Maryland Avenue -- MC6063
    Chicago, IL 60637
    Phone 773-702-6241 Fax 773-702-3171 </CENTER>
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    High Protein Diets On Kidney Health


    <B>American Kidney Fund Warns About Impact Of High-Protein Diets On Kidney Health </B>

    April 25, 2002
    FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
    Contact: Sandra Palmer (301) 984-6657


    (Rockville, MD) The American Kidney Fund (AKF) is warning Americans about popular high-protein diets for weight loss. The diets place such a significant strain on the kidneys that even conditioned athletes can become dehydrated, according to researchers at the University of Connecticut.

    &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; AKF Chairman of Medical Affairs Paul W. Crawford, MD said, "We have long suspected that high-protein weight loss diets could have a negative impact on the kidneys, and now we have research to support our suspicions. Dehydration forces the kidneys to work harder to clean toxins from the blood. Kidneys not only filter the blood, but they help regulate blood pressure and the number of red blood cells."

    &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; The researchers studied five fit endurance runners who consumed a low, then a medium, and finally a high-protein diet. During the high-protein phase, the runners consumed about 30% of their total calories from foods such as eggs, steak, and so-called "power bars". Blood tests showed that increasing the protein intake led to a progression toward dehydration, and that a greater strain was placed on the kidneys due to the excessive amount of protein.

    &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; "Increased protein intake leads to a build-up of nitrogen in the blood. The nitrogen ends up at the kidney in the form of urea, where it needs to be cleaned from the blood and gotten rid of in the urine," explained Dr. Crawford. "The resulting increase in urination can cause dehydration, further straining the kidneys," he added.

    &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; In otherwise healthy individuals, a protein intake of no more than 2 grams of protein per kilogram of body weight was recommended by the researchers in order to avoid negative long-term effects. Dr. Crawford also discussed the risk that bodybuilders take in eating high-protein diets while building muscle. He noted, "Bodybuilders could be predisposing themselves to chronic kidney disease because hyperfilteration (the strain on the kidneys) can produce scarring in the kidneys, reducing kidney function."

    &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; "Chronic kidney disease is not to be taken lightly, and there is no cure for kidney failure. The only treatments are kidney dialysis and kidney transplantation. This research shows that even in healthy athletes, kidney function was impacted and that ought to send a message to anyone who is on a high-protein weight loss diet," concluded Dr. Crawford.

    <I><SPAN style="mso-bidi-font-size: 14.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: MS Mincho; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA">The American Kidney Fund is the leading national voluntary health organization providing direct financial assistance for the benefit of kidney patients supported by comprehensive educational programs, clinical research and community service projects.</SPAN>
    </I>
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    You asked for evidence. Here is some to help show the part that high protein diets can have on your kidneys and body. It isn't garbage actual clinical studies to show how the diets can harm people, even bodybuilders and athletes. I hope this helps shed a little more light on the subject.
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    Actually its the same old BS they've been saying all along. And its not evidence, its more theory. The study done in July of 2002 as its the latest and it refutes this and the one I originaly posted proves it wrong. But you don't seem to read those. I love how they said the athlete consumed high protein food and included "power bars" as one the high protein foods. Same old crap. Increased uric acid, blah blah blah....You know how to solve that? Drink more water. Your supposed to be doing that anyway.

    Too bad the studies prove their wrong. They always say it MIGHT or COULD, but never conclude anything otherwise. Too bad duke, Harvard and host full of others are conducting independent research ont funded by governemtn agencies. Hell, they are still believing the food pyramid is right!


    Forgot to mention those studies were short term. This one is long term.

    "Long-term intake of high protein diets did not increase variables of oxidative stress, in contrast to our initial hypothesis," the authors concluded. "An unexpected finding was that adequate (14%) protein feeding may in fact induce oxidative stress," they add.

    Journal of Nutrition 2000; 130: 2889-2896
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    This should answer your questions. And its all cited so feel free to use pubmed to read the studies posted at the bottom supporting the article. Those studies should also answer your questions about kidney problems and the myth's most conservative nutritionists believe are fact.


    High Protein Diets: Separating Fact From Fiction
    By Stephen Byrnes, PhD, RNCP

    Clinically, I have used low-carbohydrate, high fat and protein diets to very good effect, especially with those conditions that are worsened by excessive carbohydrate intake, e.g., diabetes, chronic fatigue, fibromyalgia, and heart disease. When properly practiced, low-carb diets are not harmful.

    Some experts believe that excessive protein consumption, particularly animal protein, can result in heart disease, stroke, osteoporosis, cancer and kidney stones.

    It is excessive carbohydrate intake, not protein or animal protein intake, that can result in heart disease and cancer (1).

    Readers should note that the type of diet vegetarian expert advocate are high carbohydrate one because that is exactly what diets that are low in protein and fat are. Furthermore, the idea that animal products, specifically protein, cholesterol, and saturated fatty acids, somehow factor in causing atherosclerosis, stroke, and/or heart disease is a popular idea that is not supported by available data, including the field of lipid biochemistry (2).

    The claim that animal protein intake causes calcium loss from the bones is another popular nutritional myth that has no backing in nutritional science. The studies that supposedly showed protein to cause calcium loss in the urine were NOT done with real, whole foods, but with isolated amino acids and fractionated protein powders (3).

    When studies were done with people eating meat with its fat, NO calcium loss was detected in the urine, even over a long period of time (3). Other studies have confirmed that meat eating does not affect calcium balance (4) and that protein promotes stronger bones (5). Furthermore, the saturated fats that many experts believe are so evil are actually required for proper calcium deposition in the bones (6).

    The reason why the amino acids and fat-free protein powders caused calcium loss while the meat/fat did not is because protein, calcium, and minerals, require the fat-soluble vitamins A and D for their assimilation and utilization by the body. When protein is consumed without these factors, it upsets the normal biochemistry of the body and mineral loss results (7). True vitamin A and full-complex vitamin D are only found in animal fats.

    If the protein-causes-osteoporosis theory teaches us anything, it is to avoid fractionated foods (like soy protein isolate, something most vegetarians would no doubt encourage readers to consume) and isolated amino acids, and to eat meat with its fat.

    New evidence shows that women who ate lots of meat had fewer hip fractures compared to those who avoided it (8) and that vegan diets place women at a greater risk for osteoporosis (9).

    The claim that protein intake leads to kidney stones is another popular myth that is not supported by the facts. Although protein restricted diets are helpful for people who have kidney disease, eating meat does not cause kidney problems (10). Furthermore, the fat-soluble vitamins and saturated fatty acids found in animal foods are pivotal for properly functioning kidneys (11).

    Many experts attempt to explain how meat supposedly "acidifies" the blood, leading to greater mineral loss in the urine is also incorrect. Theoretically, the sulfur and phosphorus in meat can form an acid when placed in water, but that does not mean that is what happens in the body.

    Actually, meat provides complete proteins and vitamin D (if the fat or skin is eaten), both of which are needed to maintain proper acid-alkaline balance in the body. Furthermore, in a diet that includes enough magnesium and vitamin B6 and restricts simple sugars, one has little to fear from kidney stones (12).

    Animal foods like beef, poultry, and lamb are good sources of both nutrients as any food and nutrient content table will show. It also goes without saying that high protein/fat and low-carbohydrate diets are devoid of sugar.

    Some believe that the weight loss on high-protein diets is mostly from water loss is strange given that low-carb proponents like Robert Atkins, MD, tell their devotees to drink lots of water while on the diet. Initially, there is a water loss (as with any diet), but the high water intake afterwards would certainly offset any more drastic "water losses."

    Others believe that weight loss occurs on high protein/fat diets because the person eats less food because he or she gets fuller faster on fat. Given that fat has more than twice as many calories than either protein or carbohydrate, this explanation is far from satisfactory.

    In other words, you may not eat as many carbohydrates as you did before you went on the high protein diet, but because you're ingesting more fat, which has over twice as many calories as carbohydrate, your actual caloric intake is likely to stay the same or be higher than it was before.

    Some claim that plant-based proteins like those found in soy, lower LDL cholesterol and raises HDL (good) cholesterol. This prevents the build up of arterial plaque which leads to atherosclerosis and heart disease, thus reducing the risk of heart attack and stroke.

    This is yet another nutritional fantasy that although popular, is not true. The HDL/LDL theory has been thoroughly debunked by a number of prominent researchers (13) and LDL serves many useful functions in the body -- there is nothing "bad" about it (14).

    Cholesterol is actually used by the body as an antioxidant (15); vegetarian diets do not protect against atherosclerosis or heart disease (16); and female vegans have higher rates of death from heart disease than female meat eaters (17).

    Others contend that vegetable-protein diets enhance calcium retention in the body. This is simply wrong as "vegetable proteins" do not contain the fat-soluble vitamins A and D which are needed to assimilate calcium (and protein and other minerals). Furthermore, numerous plant compounds like oxalates and phytates inhibit calcium absorption.

    Unfermented soy products, in particular, are noted for their high phytic acid content and phytates block mineral absorption (18).

    Many experts advise us to replace vegetable protein for animal protein and unsaturated fats "like olive and canola oils" for saturated fats, is dubious at best and dangerous at worst. A number of recent and prior studies catalog the veritable witches brew of toxins found in processed soy products (19) and canola oil has caused vitamin E deficiencies in lab animals (20).

    Canola oil is also quite susceptible to rancidity due to its high level of alpha-linolenic acid; in the deodorization process used with canola oil, harmful trans-fatty acids are created (21).

    Lastly, studies have not born out the claims that vegetarians have lower cancer rates than the general population. A large study on vegetarian California 7th Day Adventists showed that, while the Adventists had slightly lower rates for some cancers, their rates of malignant melanoma; Hodgkin's disease; and uterine, prostate, endometrial, cervical, ovarian, and brain cancers were higher than the general population, some quite significantly. In the paper, the authors wrote that,

    Meat consumption, however, was not associated with a higher cancer risk.

    And that,

    No significant association between breast cancer and a high consumption of animal fats or animal products in general was noted. (22)

    Indeed, Dr. Emmanuel Cheraskin's survey of 1040 dentists and their wives showed that those with the fewest health problems as measured by the Cornell Medical Index had the MOST protein in their diets (23).

    The facts are that high-protein diets, when consumed in balance with enough water, fat and fat-soluble vitamins, and nutritional factors from non-starchy vegetables, ARE healthy.

    They are not guilty of the things many health experts blame on them. Minimally processed animal foods like beef and lamb are healthy foods that are rich in a number of nutrients that protect and enhance several body systems: taurine; carnitine; creatine; glutathione; vitamins A; D; several of the B-complex, including B6 and B12; minerals like chromium, magnesium, sulfur, iron, zinc, and phosphorus; complete proteins; and coenzyme Q10, needed for a healthy heart.

    If readers want to get an accurate assessment of lower-carbohydrate diets, they should check out reliable books on the subject. (24)




    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    References

    1. F. Jeppesen and others. Effects of low-fat, high-carbohydrate diets on risk factors for ischemic heart disease in post-menopausal women. Am Jnl Clin Nutr, 1997; 65:1027-1033. Mensink and Katan. Effect of dietary fatty acids on serum lipids and lipoproteins: a meta-analysis of 27 trials. Arterio Thromb, 1992, 12:911-9; I. Zavoroni and others. New Eng Jnl Med, 1989, 320:702-6; J. Witte and others. Diet and premenopausal bilateral breast cancer: a case control study. Breast Canc Res & Treat, 1997, 42:243-251; S. Franchesci and others. Intake of macronutrients and risk for breast cancer. Lancet, 1996, 347:1351-6; S. Franchesci and others. Food groups and risk of colo-rectal cancer in Italy. Inter Jnl Canc, 1997, 72:56-61; S. Seely, and others. Diet Related Diseases -- The Modern Epidemic (AVI Publishing; CT), 1985, 190-200; WJ Lutz. The colonisation of Europe and our Western diseases. Med Hypoth 1995, 45:115-120; D. Forman. Meat and cancer: a relation in search of a mechanism. The Lancet. 1999;353:686-7

    2. Uffe Ravnskov. The Cholesterol Myths (New Trends Publishing; Washington, D.C.), 1999; Mary Enig. Know Your Fats: The Complete Primer on Fats and Cholesterol (Bethesda Press; Maryland), 2000, 76-81; Russell Smith and Edward Pinckney. Diet, Blood Cholesterol, and Coronary Heart Disease: A Critical Review of the Literature (Vector Enterprises; California), 1991; Stephen Byrnes. Diet and Heart Disease: Its NOT What You Think (Whitman Books; 2001), 25-52.

    3. H. Spencer and L. Kramer. Factors Contributing to Osteoporosis. Jnl of Nutr, 1986, 116:316-319; Further studies of the effect of a high protein diet as meat on calcium metabolism. Amer Jnl Clin Nutr., 1983, 37:6: 924-9.

    4. J. Hunt and others. High-versus low meat diets: Effects on zinc absorption, iron status, and calcium, copper, iron, magnesium, manganese, nitrogen, phosphorus, and zinc balance in postmenopausal women. Amer Jnl Clin Nutr, 1995, 62:621-32; Spencer, Osis, and Kramer, Do protein and phosphorus cause calcium loss? J Nutr 1988 Jun;118(6):657-60.

    5. C. Cooper, and others. Dietary protein and bone mass in women. Calcified Tiss. Int., 1996, 58:320-5.

    6. BA Watkins and others. Importance of vitamin E in bone formation and in chondrocyte function. American Oil Chemists Society Proceedings, 1996, at Purdue University; "Food Lipids and Bone Health" in Food Lipids and Health, McDonald and Min, Editors, (Marcel Dekker Co.; NY), 1996.

    7. S. Fallon and M. Enig. Dem bones -- do high protein diets cause osteoporosis? Wise Traditions, 2000, 1:4:38-41. Also posted at http://www.westonaprice.org

    8. RC Munger and others. Amer Jnl Clin Nutr, 1999, 69:147-52.

    9. Chiu JF; Lan SJ; Yang CY, and others. Long-term vegetarian diet and bone mineral density in postmenopausal Taiwanese women. Calcified Tissue Int, 1997; 60: 245-9; EM Lau, T Kwok, J Woo, and others. Bone mineral density in Chinese elderly female vegetarians, vegans, lacto-vegetarians and omnivores. Eur J Clin Nutr 1998;52:60-4.

    10. J. Dwyer. Amer Jnl of Pub Health, 1994, 848): 1299-1303.

    11. M. Enig. Saturated fats and the kidneys. Wise Traditions, 2000, 1:3:49. Posted at http://www.westonaprice.org.

    12. Urol Res, 1994, 22(3):161-5; Nutr Health, 1987, 5(1): 9-17.

    13. See references for note number two.

    14. M. Enig. Know Your Fats, 258.

    15. E. Cranton and JP Frackelton. Jnl of Holistic Med, 1984, Spring/Summer, 6-37.

    16. Russell Smith, op cit.; L. Corr and M. Oliver. The low-fat/cholesterol diet is ineffective. Eur Heart Jnl, 1997, 18:18-22; F. McGill and others. Results of the International Atherosclerosis Project. Clin Lab Invest, 1968, 185):498; Herrmann, Schorr, Purschwitz, Rassoul, Richter. Total homocysteine, vitamin B (12), and total antioxidant status in vegetarians. Clin Chem 2001 Jun;47(6):1094-101; EA Enas. Coronary artery disease epidemic in Indians: a cause for alarm and call for action. J Indian Med Assoc 2000 Nov;98(11):694-5, 697-702.

    17. Ellis, Path, Montegriffo. Veganism: Clinical findings and investigations. Amer Jnl Clin Nutr, 1970, 32:249-255.

    18. AH Tiney. Proximate composition and mineral and phytate contents of legumes grown in Sudan. Jnl of Food Comp and Analy, 1989, 2:67-68; see also S. Fallon and M. Enig, "The Ploy of Soy," posted at http://www.westonaprice.org.

    19. See research abstracts posted at http://www.soyonlineservice.co.nz.

    20. FD Sauer and others. Nutr Res, 1997, 17:2:259-269.

    21. M. Enig, Know Your Fats, 120-1,195-6.

    22. Mills, Beeson, Phillips, and Fraser. Cancer-incidence among California Seventh-day Adventists, 1976-1982. Am J Clin Nutr, 1994, 59 (suppl):1136S-42S.

    23. E. Cheraskin, and others. Jnl of Orthom Psych, 1978, 7:150-155.

    24. Diana Schwarzbein and Nancy Deville. The Schwarzbein Principle (HCI Publications; Florida), 1999; Robert C. Atkins. Dr. Atkins' New Diet Revolution. (Bantam Books; NY), 1998.
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    Ok, here's the deal......


    Neither of you are willing to be open minded and actually read the other's articles in fear you must swallow your pride and change your opinion.

    Everyone of the articles post, whether it be pro protein or anti protein, doesnt matter, they all include the words "Might, could. mayb, should, I have", etc. You can post a Harvard article on the effectiveness of high protein and I can go get a Harvard article on the determental effects of high protein. Point being, each serve their purpose. Ive never went over 1.25 grams of protein per lb of bodyweight (off cycle) and had incredible natural gains, while "on" I shoot for 1.75. Some people swear by eating double your body weight in protein, thats fine too. Whatever gets the job done. Science is great, I know......but sometimes personal experience is the deciding factor even if you post articles until your face is blue.
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    Re: low carb high protein diets increase....


    Originally posted by DarCSA

    "High protein, low carbohydrate diets clearly produced changes that substantially increase the risk of kidney stone formation if continued over time. Our study was too brief to show diet induced osteoporosis, but our data suggests this may be another potential risk," said Shalini Reddy, M.D., assistant professor of medicine at the University of Chicago and lead author of the study.

    In this study, 10 healthy subjects ate a regular diet for two weeks. They followed that with two weeks on a highly restrictive diet that included some vegetables but no fruits and fewer than 20 grams of carbohydrates. Participants then ate a slightly less-restrictive diet for the final four weeks.

    A diet heavy on animal proteins and light on carbohydrates does increase fat metabolism--which can increase the amount of acid in the blood. The researchers found that acid excretion--a marker for the acid load in the blood--increased as much as 90 percent while subjects were on diets that severely restricted carbohydrates. They also found that calcium absorption was unchanged but calcium excretion increased.

    The diet produced changes in urine chemistry--higher levels of uric acid and calcium--that enhance the propensity to form stones. The increased acid load in the blood may also suppress the function of cells that make new bone and stimulate the cells that break down bone, suggesting that much of the calcium being excreted was leached from bone.
    This test was skewed to come out the way they wanted it to. Even Vince Gironda, who advocated the zero-carb diet to increase definition for 10 days prior to a contest, emphasized the need to indulge in carbs, preferably fruits, every 4-5 days, so that the liver did not run low on glycogen. Without enough glygogen, your strength begins to drop at a rapid rate. He, like Atkins later on, advised eating fats during this period, including animal fat, which is so similar to human bodyfat, that it starts a chain reaction, and the system switches over to bodyfat once the beef fat is gone. I see no mention of fat in this study. I also see no mention of an increase in water consumption, which is the most important addition to an ultra-high protein diet, and the only way to flush excess uric acid from the kidneys. It may be a pain in the ass to get up once or twice a night, but if you're taking in 400 grams of protein, and sleeping all night, you are certainly mildly dehydrated.

    I read every post thoroughly. I agree with everything Bobo said here. He gave facts, and real world results, not the opinion of an AHA rep who will also tell you ephedra is lethal.
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    I agree with what you are saying Bobo, YJ, and JB. We can all find things to differ opinions. I can find more articles and so can Bobo. Bobo I know you are a strong proponent of keto based diets. I have seen what you say in long and short term based ideas and studies. Everything we currently believe about nutrition can be based in myth and lore if we want it to be. You have helped me learn about keto based diets. The purpose of them is simple to lose weight. Low Carbs or high carbs or low protein or high protein. We could look and in no time have hundreds even thousands of articles that could agree or disagree with what we believe&nbsp;to be true. We must take all of these refrences and opinions with a grain of salt and use what personally works for us. I personally am a opponent of such fad based or high protein diets (whatever you want to call them). We have now started to redesign the food pyramid. Let's see how the American public looks in another generation based upon what we now believe to be fact. It maybe fiction for all we know in 20 years. The whole key of this concept man was to learn I did so and I hope you did as well in the process. We have shown a lot of informative articles here and there are more out there. There are two sides to this whole debate. We may all learn in the process of finding what is best for the human race in general. As long as we open our eyes and see that we are an overweight nation that needs to take the blinders off and look at what the future holds for us if we are not nutritionally minded. We are entitled to our own opinions and we have both made ours clear. Proponent or advocate on any side of the issue must be willing to accept what the other side has to say. I know that the refrences I made were ones that said words like might or maybe but we always have to keep these in mind, the articles you posted as well held these words as well. Now we need to sit and wait it out and see how America and the rest of the world responds. There will be all of those out there like you and I who will long for the most ideal body we can obtain. Now that all of this is said I would like to end the mindless drama that we have drawn out. I offer to draw a line in the sand and offer a hand of friendship. I am open to hear what you have to say as well as I hope you are open to what I and others who believe what we believe or what you believe can work together to help make the people around us more nutritionally aware and in better physical condition. We both have the same goal here to make this world a&nbsp;more nutrionally minded one where there will be a day when diets are not needed at all. It maybe a little far fetched but it has to start somewhere. Instead of bickering about diet plans lets work together to change the minds of individuals who have never thought along these lines at all. I am personally tired of seeing an obese nation. We need to stop it in its tracks before it gets worse. I have seen it more times than I care to see. I would love for this world to be a fit and thin minded one but we all need to work together to inform and educate. We have only now been able to map the human genome. We must be able to figure it out as well to help those other individuals who need genetic help to lose weight. Let's make this our goal - A thinner and healthier world for all of those who live in it. Thank You&nbsp;for the time to let me type this and express my opinion.
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    Originally posted by YellowJacket
    Ok, here's the deal......


    Neither of you are willing to be open minded and actually read the other's articles in fear you must swallow your pride and change your opinion.

    Everyone of the articles post, whether it be pro protein or anti protein, doesnt matter, they all include the words "Might, could. mayb, should, I have", etc. You can post a Harvard article on the effectiveness of high protein and I can go get a Harvard article on the determental effects of high protein. Point being, each serve their purpose. Ive never went over 1.25 grams of protein per lb of bodyweight (off cycle) and had incredible natural gains, while "on" I shoot for 1.75. Some people swear by eating double your body weight in protein, thats fine too. Whatever gets the job done. Science is great, I know......but sometimes personal experience is the deciding factor even if you post articles until your face is blue.
    I read everyone one of his articles, and I refuted them with ones that were relevant to his postings. He had problems with high protein diets pertaning to their health. I posted studies that refuted them. I asked for research. He posted some clinical studies and I refuted them with explanations of why there were wrong, backing them up with studies. Most of his studies did contain the words "Might, could. mayb, should" and I poste articles specifically targeting those types of statements. I dont change my opinion when its not warranted. I've heard for years about the health risks assocaited with thiese diets and I have never heard of anyone having kidney failure or health problems asscociated with them. On the contrary I've heard nothing but positive things.

    No, you can't find any Harvard studies because they don't exist.. The reason being is only now do they have studies since they are becoming more popular and warrant explanation. The findings are proving they are not dangerous whatsoever. If you have studies proving otherwise that are recent I would like to see them. I would consider changing my mind then.


    According to them your putting your kidney at risk if your following your protein recommendations. Most of them conclude that going over the FDA recommendations is not warranted, even if you exercise.

    I don't think you've looked at those studies that are posted at the bottom of the last article. They address every single issue that Dar's article have concerned about. They have used "Might, could. mayb, should" in explaining everything and the studies try to correct these myths.

    I think most people automatically have a bias against keto diets or high protein diets simply for the fact that they are considered a fad diet even though they've been used for centuries. Every nutrition class, progam, mastter's program, whatever, states they are unhealthy and its based on theory. Only now is their validity being proven. Ten years from now the bias will not be as large as more and more studies are proving the same thing. It gets old arguing the same points when the solutions are their right in front of your eyes. I guess now since people are not taking studies as legitimate proof, were back to opinion based on personal experience. Now I hope you accept placebo's as scientific fact because thats what were going to be dealing with then. I know your opinion and we've been through this before. I don't think either of us wants to continue. We know where we stand on this issue.
    Last edited by Dwight Schrute; 02-02-2003 at 08:55 AM.
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    Originally posted by DarCSA
    I agree with what you are saying Bobo, YJ, and JB. We can all find things to differ opinions. I can find more articles and so can Bobo. Bobo I know you are a strong proponent of keto based diets. I have seen what you say in long and short term based ideas and studies. Everything we currently believe about nutrition can be based in myth and lore if we want it to be. You have helped me learn about keto based diets. The purpose of them is simple to lose weight. Low Carbs or high carbs or low protein or high protein. We could look and in no time have hundreds even thousands of articles that could agree or disagree with what we believe&nbsp;to be true. We must take all of these refrences and opinions with a grain of salt and use what personally works for us. I personally am a opponent of such fad based or high protein diets (whatever you want to call them). We have now started to redesign the food pyramid. Let's see how the American public looks in another generation based upon what we now believe to be fact. It maybe fiction for all we know in 20 years. The whole key of this concept man was to learn I did so and I hope you did as well in the process. We have shown a lot of informative articles here and there are more out there. There are two sides to this whole debate. We may all learn in the process of finding what is best for the human race in general. As long as we open our eyes and see that we are an overweight nation that needs to take the blinders off and look at what the future holds for us if we are not nutritionally minded. We are entitled to our own opinions and we have both made ours clear. Proponent or advocate on any side of the issue must be willing to accept what the other side has to say. I know that the refrences I made were ones that said words like might or maybe but we always have to keep these in mind, the articles you posted as well held these words as well. Now we need to sit and wait it out and see how America and the rest of the world responds. There will be all of those out there like you and I who will long for the most ideal body we can obtain. Now that all of this is said I would like to end the mindless drama that we have drawn out. I offer to draw a line in the sand and offer a hand of friendship. I am open to hear what you have to say as well as I hope you are open to what I and others who believe what we believe or what you believe can work together to help make the people around us more nutritionally aware and in better physical condition. We both have the same goal here to make this world a&nbsp;more nutrionally minded one where there will be a day when diets are not needed at all. It maybe a little far fetched but it has to start somewhere. Instead of bickering about diet plans lets work together to change the minds of individuals who have never thought along these lines at all. I am personally tired of seeing an obese nation. We need to stop it in its tracks before it gets worse. I have seen it more times than I care to see. I would love for this world to be a fit and thin minded one but we all need to work together to inform and educate. We have only now been able to map the human genome. We must be able to figure it out as well to help those other individuals who need genetic help to lose weight. Let's make this our goal - A thinner and healthier world for all of those who live in it. Thank You&nbsp;for the time to let me type this and express my opinion.
    I agree in general with your statement overall but there still some things you still fail to understand. Its not because you aren't capable, its just that you still have this idea that these diets are fad diets or gimmicks. They are not. They have using diets like these for centuries but since the FDA and every other federal gov program has been telling you since pre-school that the food pyramid and carb based diets are they way to go and FAT is bad, your are going to naturally have a bias towards them. Thats understandable. Has the FDA ever proven these diets to be harmful? No. Even the American Heart Associatiation just admitted that they are beneficial when followed correctly. These arne't opinions, they are facts. Not because I say so, but because the studies say so. They contradict the "might, could, maybe" theories most nutritionalists have. Everyone has the right to be a skeptic. You have you opinions and I have mine. Truthfully I get tired of explaining the same thing over and over again because on this board if you want to argue keto, I'm your target. I don't mind that at all but could everyone who reads this do me a favor and understand the diet your bashing. These articles don't even acknowledge the fact that they are not no-carb diets. They have plenty of veggies, fruits and other types which in the diet plan are NOT counted. Post workout is NOT counted in your total carb intake. NONE of these articles take that into account whatsoever. THey don't even understand that on the Atkins diet, once you achieve the weight loss you wanted, carbs are incorporated back into your diet. Nobody ever said eliminate carbs for the rest of your life. Everyone's concpetion of keto diets is most fat, high protein, no carb. Thats it and thats just not fair. Now enough of the lecture


    Dar I appreciate you taking the time to argue this point. At times I get frustrated because most people like you just don't understand the concepts behing these diets. They just go by what others have said and thats fine. At least your taking the time to read the material. I accept being the target for these types of debates because I think I can hold my own and provide suitable evidence to back up my points. I've looked at both sides. I seen the evidence from all sides and considering the new found studies I believe they are not a danger to your health and can be very beneficial if followed properly. Ok I'm off to do cardio...I tihnk we can all agree that exercise is important in any diet? At least I hope so....
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    bobo, one of the articles u posted suggestes an intake of 1g/lb, do you know anyone that really does that ?

    *other than me*
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    Bobos studies are much more credible and the results are not skewed to make the FDA and AHA happy. The only problem with excessevely high protein diets can be when someone has a pre-existing renal dysfunction. That's it! That's the only thing I've ever read. Eat your protein and drink your water.
    Also, remember, high protein diets don't always mean low carb diets. You can easily eat a decent amount of carbs and have high protein at the same time. It's stupid that people think high protein diets automatically translate into no carbs.
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    Yep, LOL.... Consider a diet that has a cup of cottage cheese, 4 hard boiled eggs, and a protein shake for breakfast. Maybe a bag of nuts, some beef jerky for snack. A salad with 2 chicken breasts for another meal... A post workout shake. A steak with veggies for dinner, a couple table spoons of natty peanut butter and turkey/cheese rollups for another snack and a casein blend before bed.... Count that up ...
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    Quote Originally Posted by migs
    bobo, one of the articles u posted suggestes an intake of 1g/lb, do you know anyone that really does that ?

    *other than me*
    Of course, in fact that is rather low by BBing standards. Try reading some of Doggcrapp's posts, I think he recommends 3g/lb :-o
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    if bobo recommended 1g/lb then we go back to the main essence of the thread, will eating more protein make you gain more muscle and faster ?


    bobo, do u recommend 1g/lb to ur clients ?
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    I think that 1g/lb is a pretty good guideline for strength training individuals. However i think that when anabolics or peptide hormones (IGF, GH etc) are being used, then there is a need for more protein. My question however is how much more? Even with the use of anabolics i do not beleive that the body can utilize say 500g protein/day even if you are a 250lb man. I just wonder how much of this extra protein is actually used once you go into the ultra high ranges of protein intake, since the body has no way of storing protein like it does for fat or carbohydrates. If anyone has any insight on this it would be great.
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    All of it is used, you really don't poop out undigested protein (unless you have some digestive complications) its just a matter of what it's used for. Most of it either forms new muscle tissue or is converted through gluconeogenesis. It takes many metabolic steps before protein can be stored as fat. So fat storage from protein is the least likely. It CAN happen but you have to eat way above your caloric requirements.
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    Wow, interesting posts. I can say one thing if you see an article/study that says one thing is good, I promise you will find an article/study that says that same thing is bad. No doubt about it. Look at all the people/studies who say squats are bad, then look at all the people/studies that say they are good. Maybe for some people high protein is bad, for others its good. I'm guessing ya just gotta find out what works for you.
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    Sorry if this seems like I'm taking an overly simplistic view of this but look at the evidenceavaiable. Since we, and by we I mean the people on this board, tend to eat higher amounts of protien then the general public, wouldn't we all be suffering from similar problems? Where's the group call "Renal Problems"?

    I've also heard the notion that your body can only digest x number of grams of protien at a given time. If this were true it would be great. Think about it, those would be free calories. Once you ate that number of grams of protien if your body can't digest any more, all the protien in that next pound of steak is free, can't digest it then the calories don't count. However we all know this to be false.

    Also, the RDA is a terrible source for determining the correct amount of nutrients. What they offer is the minimum required to prevent disease. Weightlifters put a higher stress on their systems then most people. Protien repairs the system, can you make the leap from there?

    If you are really worried about high amount of protien hurting your system, just don't eat that much. But please don't post that you're not making progress.
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