Matthew D or Bobo

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    Quote Originally Posted by FTMGuy
    Coconut is is good because it half MCT

    Ding Ding Ding!


    We have a winner.
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    How do you guys use your coconut oil? I absolutely hate the taste of coconut, but if I could find a way to use it and not get the taste, I'd be pretty happy.
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    does this mean coconut MILK is a good thing or not?

    i know it's high fat, but does it have the same %age of MCT oil's as coconut oils?

    i make some pretty good thai currys myself. it would be good to know if coconut milk has high MCT's.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan Drago
    How do you guys use your coconut oil? I absolutely hate the taste of coconut, but if I could find a way to use it and not get the taste, I'd be pretty happy.
    I mix it with my morning protien shake..
    I melt 4 tablespoons of coconut oil (virgin) then I add green tea to it...

    60 grams of whey protien mixed with Hood low carb milk 4 eggbeaters and uncooked oatmeal and wheat germ.Combine all this to make one super nutritous 80 gram protien shake....
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    Now, to expand further on YHCL and insulin... let's say you ingest some YHCL and then consume a meal with carbs in it, enough to create a moderate insulin spike. Will the Y resume its effects after the insulin spike has 'settled down'? Or is it a done deal after that?

    Damn, I think I worded this question terribly. But it's early, and hopefully someone will get what I'm trying to ask.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaDmaN
    I mix it with my morning protien shake..
    I melt 4 tablespoons of coconut oil (virgin) then I add green tea to it...

    60 grams of whey protien mixed with Hood low carb milk 4 eggbeaters and uncooked oatmeal and wheat germ.Combine all this to make one super nutritous 80 gram protien shake....

    I see where you got your name, Madman! If I drank that, I think I'd puke! How does it taste/go down?

    Do you have the macro breakdown off hand?
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    This topic about what to eat pre/post cardio has been such a topic of debate for me lately. There is so much out there it is so tough to know what to believe. I have heard in the past and was always under the impression that spiking your insulin before a cardio workout was bad. I read somewhere...I believe on BB.com (But who knows who wrote it) that spiking your insulin releases cortisol into your body which blocks fat from being used as your energy source. Which would mean if you had a gatorade right before cardio, that you would only be burning the sugars you just put into your body, instead of burning fat.

    However, I recently purchased "nutrition Timing" specifically because of all this confusion Ive had. I have talked to multiple trainers, and they all have different answers. The book says that spiking your insulin curbs the rise of cortisol. And cortisol is a catabolic hormone. So spiking your insulin would reduce muscle breakdown during cardio. It also says that spiking your insulin greatly improves protein synthesis when taking in sugars and protein simultaneously, which is a good thing.

    So someone answer this question from hell for me. damnit, lol. I generally do cardio seperate from lifting, generally in the morning, or early afternoon time. So...do I want to take in simple carbs to spike my insulin and curb cortisol like "Nutrition Timing" says? Or do I want to take in only protein, (thinking that it will help reduce muscle catabolism and burn mostly fat? Since Ive heard in the past that spiking insulin blocks fat from being used for your energy.) or do I take in some complex carbs so that my insulin isnt spiked, but I have some energy. What the hell is the damn answer, lol? Someone let me know and throw some proof behind it if you got it. And to help out. My main goal for the cardio is to reduce stored fat. I am trying to get my damn BF% down. PLEASE HELP!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobo
    People often mistake the body using one source of fuel when its actually using everything all the time. You just want to increase the ratio of fat being oxidized to proteins.
    Bobo, this is interesting stuff. Can you point to any studies on this?
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    Nutrition 200 Section 14 about 4 years ago

    Its just basic nutrition. The body uses all sources, all the time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobo
    Oral Yohimbine does not react very well to any increase in blood insulin levels. Its best to take on an exmpty stomach and another reason transdermal is favorored.
    I tried Lipo -Y on my midsection but results weren't great for me.
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    I've used it before and it worked pretty well but my caloric deficit was pretty large at the time. They seem to work better that way but then you can run inot a host of other problems following that type of diet.
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    adrenalinaddict,

    i'm with you in the pre, post nutrition thing. there's so many theories but i think we can all agree that when it comes to the human body sometimes these theories can be thrown out the window.

    i'll add that i'm a meso-endo (body type).....i think!!!!! i have no trouble putting on size but have a hard time getting that hard look.
    but i'm 6"1 so i can disguise it well.

    i tried what i said i was going to do in my opening post & didn't get the results i'd thought.
    this week i'm trying a whey only shake 30-60 minutes before my workout with 2000mg of Vit.C which is very good for reducing cortisol.
    i'm going to add egg whites to this next week. no fat at all around w/o time.

    i found a solid meal doesn't sit good after the w/o so a shake is the better option for me. whey, egg whites, oats & honey tastes really good, sits great in my stomach & keeps me full for at least 1 1/2 - 2 hours later.
    i think the oats stop the rapid gastric emptying so the shake digests slightly slower...........i think!!! but like i said it's still very confusing to me!!!

    anyway this seems to be working well for me. carbs & fats are kept low for the rest of the day but i have no limit on fibre or protein. all the fats i need come with the meat protein i'm eating so i don't go out of my way to add more.......except for fish oil caps.

    every 4 days i eat really high glycemic carbs & small amounts of protein for a whole day. this is something i've also just started & is working great.
    on that day i feel bloated & fat but the next day i'm full & strong. i tried a complex day with lousy results.

    also getting great results using SwoleV2. i don't rave about supps much but this stuff is great.

    Jag
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    Don't forget to add the dextrose to those post WO shakes! Why you ask? Wellllll let me tell you:

    Dextrose preferentially replaces muscle glycogen whereas other simple sugars preferentially replace liver glycogen. Thus the dextrose is best for shuttling nutrients to your burnt out muscles.

    I have studies laying around and I'll add them if anyone wants to double check me but I think this is a pretty well covered subject.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheUsual
    Don't forget to add the dextrose to those post WO shakes! Why you ask? Wellllll let me tell you:
    I have studies laying around and I'll add them if anyone wants to double check me but I think this is a pretty well covered subject.
    and a well debated topic between low and high GI carb as well bro.
    Sage
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    Indeed I did a bit more reading after posting that and stumbled across the "discussion" (if it can be called that, swolecat performed a rather lame defense) between swolecat and Bobo over High GI vs Low GI.

    I apologize, I haven't been here long and haven't had much time to search through all the threads; I came over from the Avant Labs forums where I've lurked for around a year. I like it a little better here though due to getting quicker responses to my questions... a more active community or regulars, perhaps?

    P.s.-Bobo please don't rip me a new one, I will search for those studies but from what I have seen I doubt it is anything new to you. I will definitely have to research this topic further as I currently consume around 30g dex pre and 30g post.
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    Bobo what do you think of this article by Zeppelin (owner of proteincustomizer.com and blackstarlabs.com I believe):

    http://www.avantlabs.com/magmain.php...ID=5&pageID=66

    He believes the best method is to bracket a 50/50 mix of malto and dextrose around one's workout. He posts a plethora of studies... I will go through them later when I have time. If only I could get paid for scouring pubmed all day in search of bodybuilding information... sigh, in a perfect world
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jcc
    Now, to expand further on YHCL and insulin... let's say you ingest some YHCL and then consume a meal with carbs in it, enough to create a moderate insulin spike. Will the Y resume its effects after the insulin spike has 'settled down'? Or is it a done deal after that?

    Damn, I think I worded this question terribly. But it's early, and hopefully someone will get what I'm trying to ask.
    I'll try again... anybody have some insight on this? Hate to go off topic, but this thread has been all over the place anyways.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheUsual
    Don't forget to add the dextrose to those post WO shakes! Why you ask? Wellllll let me tell you:

    Dextrose preferentially replaces muscle glycogen whereas other simple sugars preferentially replace liver glycogen. Thus the dextrose is best for shuttling nutrients to your burnt out muscles.

    I have studies laying around and I'll add them if anyone wants to double check me but I think this is a pretty well covered subject.
    TheUsual,

    welcome here.

    i devoted a lot of time to experiment with this pre, during & post w/o nutrition buisness just to sort it out once & for all...............for myself.

    i was armed with a lot of info including Zeppilins "pre, during, post w/o nutrition" article. my conclusion was that all the dex & malto just made me FAT.

    this maybe good for some who just want mass/FAT (or ectomorphs) but my idea of bodybuilding is to look good ALL the time. i actually just dumped the rest of my dex & malto in the bin & stocked up natural honey (i'm fortunate to know someone with bees ) & oats.

    the results i'm getting speak for themselves. Bobo was the one who got me thinking about the oats & it worked well.

    Jag
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jag
    TheUsual,

    welcome here.

    i devoted a lot of time to experiment with this pre, during & post w/o nutrition buisness just to sort it out once & for all...............for myself.

    i was armed with a lot of info including Zeppilins "pre, during, post w/o nutrition" article. my conclusion was that all the dex & malto just made me FAT.

    this maybe good for some who just want mass/FAT (or ectomorphs) but my idea of bodybuilding is to look good ALL the time. i actually just dumped the rest of my dex & malto in the bin & stocked up natural honey (i'm fortunate to know someone with bees ) & oats.

    the results i'm getting speak for themselves. Bobo was the one who got me thinking about the oats & it worked well.

    Jag
    Thanks for the welcome.

    Yes, I definitely want to research it further, and I definitely respect Bobo's opinions from what I've seen of his posts so far. Right now I am bulking so it does not play quite as large of a role, but when I start cutting in a month, I will definitely not want to be using dex if it is unneccessary and hindering my fat loss. Besides, Honey and oats taste better
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    what do people think of a supp. like muscle milk post-workout (for cutting or bulking).

    the CW is that pw shake should be protein and carbs, however MM has protein, relatively low carbs, and a substantial fat portion (albeit mostly "good" fats)

    based on the CW i would hesitate to make it my post w/o shake, but any thoughts on this?
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjjd
    what do people think of a supp. like muscle milk post-workout (for cutting or bulking).

    the CW is that pw shake should be protein and carbs, however MM has protein, relatively low carbs, and a substantial fat portion (albeit mostly "good" fats)

    based on the CW i would hesitate to make it my post w/o shake, but any thoughts on this?
    MM is no good post WO due to the fat content. No fats post WO! This is a fact on which there is no contention I assume
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jag
    TheUsual,


    this maybe good for some who just want mass/FAT (or ectomorphs) but my idea of bodybuilding is to look good ALL the time. i actually just dumped the rest of my dex & malto in the bin & stocked up natural honey (i'm fortunate to know someone with bees ) & oats.

    the results i'm getting speak for themselves. Bobo was the one who got me thinking about the oats & it worked well.

    Jag
    JAG, what kind of oats are you using?? Cause I know those 'instant oats' are a pretty high GI
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Oxlong
    JAG, what kind of oats are you using?? Cause I know those 'instant oats' are a pretty high GI
    Only instant "packs" of oats are High GI - IE. Maple brown sugar,mmm, peaches and cream etc. The instant plain oatmeal (you know the one where you add 1 cup of water for 1 cup of oats and cook 1 min in micorwave are low GI)
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    From what I've read in "The Zone" which, by the way has excellent discussions on how food affects hormones, says that those instant oats, plain or not, are still high GI. The ones that are still in big thick bunches and take 10-30 minutes to cook are the lower GI oats. Coincidentally, the longer it takes to cook them, the slower they digest and affect your bloodsugar
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    try the irish steel cut oats. they taste GREAT (nutty and filling). and have all the fiber. they are not rolled, but cut.

    i like them with some milk, whey protein powder, butter, and erythritol (fake sugar)
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    cool, thanks
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Oxlong
    JAG, what kind of oats are you using?? Cause I know those 'instant oats' are a pretty high GI
    i just use good ol' Uncle Toby's Traditional oats.

    i have cooked them before but i usually just have them raw. less hassle!!

    i really look forward to this shake after training now.

    Jag
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Oxlong
    From what I've read in "The Zone" which, by the way has excellent discussions on how food affects hormones, says that those instant oats, plain or not, are still high GI. The ones that are still in big thick bunches and take 10-30 minutes to cook are the lower GI oats. Coincidentally, the longer it takes to cook them, the slower they digest and affect your bloodsugar


    I agree that the instant are higher 65 on the glycemic index compared to slow cooked which is 49 Gi. A litte to close to to 70 which isn't horrible but still not the best - you made me research as I thought plain instant was equal to slow cooked - I am now switching my oats, haha
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    Alright so: No fats in the post w/o shake
    MCTs in pre w/o shake

    Is this correct?
    How about simple carbs in the pre w/o shake or should we just use protein?
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    I would say no the the simple sugars pre w/o as this will cause an insulin spike which will make it difficult to access your fat stores during the workout.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Oxlong
    I would say no the the simple sugars pre w/o as this will cause an insulin spike which will make it difficult to access your fat stores during the workout.
    Stored fat is not released and oxidized that quickly. Exercise releases the majority of FFA's into your bloodstream and diet over time oxidizes them. The production of insulin won't have any effects on "accessing fat stores" during exercise. In fact, cell permeability will increase and what happens after that depends on diet and circulating FFA's.
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    If you have a high insulin level in response to a spike in your blood sugar, then how would one be able use fat for energy, when insulin is a storing hormone?
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    Becuase its pre-workout and those calories will be used. The body uses all sources at all times, not just one. Insulin is a storage hormone but the bodies repsonse to exercise is to fill glyocgen stores first (skeletal muscle and liver), fat stores second and if there isn't an abundance of circultating FFA's then the probablity of nutrients being converted into tryglycerides is very unlikely. It would be better to sip it through your workout. In any case the best time you can get away with these tpye of drinks aorund pre or during workout.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobo
    Becuase its pre-workout and those calories will be used. The body uses all sources at all times, not just one. Insulin is a storage hormone but the bodies repsonse to exercise is to fill glyocgen stores first (skeletal muscle and liver), fat stores second and if there isn't an abundance of circultating FFA's then the probablity of nutrients being converted into tryglycerides is very unlikely. It would be better to sip it through your workout. In any case the best time you can get away with these tpye of drinks aorund pre or during workout.
    Thanks for the clarification.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jag
    TheUsual,

    welcome here.

    i devoted a lot of time to experiment with this pre, during & post w/o nutrition buisness just to sort it out once & for all...............for myself.

    i was armed with a lot of info including Zeppilins "pre, during, post w/o nutrition" article. my conclusion was that all the dex & malto just made me FAT.
    Jag
    Jag, how much dex & pro were you using in your post WO shakes??
  

  
 

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