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    Quote Originally Posted by faaipdeoiad View Post
    thats alot of questions haha
    -i think the consensus so far is to stick to eca (i liked the ecy too but i guess it has more sides)
    - avoid the jacked if possible or at least lower the dose. the geranium extract in it is pretty strong, ive gotten too overstimulated from that with eca and it affected my lift. now i just take e/y with jacked and skip the c for my pwo dose.
    - if ur just taking it once a day the early morning dose might be best, or preworkout if u dont lift too late at night
    - and u can always get primatene (or the walgreens knockoff brand) which is ephedrine hcl but as far as i know they all have guafeneisin in it
    guafeneisin is indeed in all the oct's. I searched at ephedrine the convience stores today and couldnt find ephedrine.its all synephedrine and stuff like that. the bronkiad is ephedrine sulfate..the primatene is ephedrine HCL. HCL converts at a slightly higher rate I think its like a ten percent difference. its not much. both work.

    is any one having any problems with guafeneisin as far as being too much of a muscle relaxant or any other noticed problems?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDarkHalf View Post
    So my roommate was about to toss out a bottle of SudoGest (a prescription nasal decongestant). I grabbed it from him and took a look at the ingredients....

    60 mg pseudoephedrine hydrochloride (per pill)

    Worth using in a ECA or should I trash it? If it is worth using how would I dose it? Hoping to get one of the more knowledgable gents like B5150 in on this..thanks!
    No not worth it. The word pseudo means false look it up in the dictionary. youll get some effect mind you if you do it you need the real thing though or at least as close legally as you can get. In this case Bronkaid or primatene.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDarkHalf View Post
    So my roommate was about to toss out a bottle of SudoGest (a prescription nasal decongestant). I grabbed it from him and took a look at the ingredients....

    60 mg pseudoephedrine hydrochloride (per pill)

    Worth using in a ECA or should I trash it? If it is worth using how would I dose it? Hoping to get one of the more knowledgable gents like B5150 in on this..thanks!

    your roomate?? i assume your in college or old enough to realize #1 taking somebody's prescription is wrong..#2 psuedo means not true or..simply false.

    trash it dude!!!!! go the bronkaid/primeatine route
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    What are some ways to to prevent bad experiences with this stack? I've seen in this thread it is recomended to drink plenty of water but is their anything else I should be taking or doing with this or anything I should be avoiding ? Thanks
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    Quote Originally Posted by smeton_yea View Post
    No not worth it. The word pseudo means false look it up in the dictionary. youll get some effect mind you if you do it you need the real thing though or at least as close legally as you can get. In this case Bronkaid or primatene.
    Quote Originally Posted by plenny View Post
    your roomate?? i assume your in college or old enough to realize #1 taking somebody's prescription is wrong..#2 psuedo means not true or..simply false.

    trash it dude!!!!! go the bronkaid/primeatine route
    I know what it means, i'm looking for someone to chime in that actually has experience with it or knows chemically how the pseduo works in comparison to sulfate/HCL.

    I'm not in college and have taken other prescription drugs on various occasions since the age of 16....not so much anymore though! And you thinking it's wrong is a matter of opinion - some prescriptions are universal in that pretty much anyone can take them. But do realize that I also know that some aren't and can hurt you which is why i'm here doing my homework. I'm also starting to think sudogest isn't even a prescription drug it could just be an OTC.
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    I gave you an answer.

    if you want me to break it down for you pe works 1/3 as good as ephedra thats about 33 %.
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    does any one know if 5-htp is okay to take with eca stack?

    Im pretty sure it is , just in case though. 5-htp=serotonin, ephredine=norephedrine or some chemical named like this

    5-htp is dosed before sleep
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    Quote Originally Posted by smeton_yea View Post
    does any one know if 5-htp is okay to take with eca stack?

    Im pretty sure it is , just in case though. 5-htp=serotonin, ephredine=norephedrine or some chemical named like this

    5-htp is dosed before sleep
    No idea...

    should someone taper down when ending a ECA/ECY cycle? (1/2/3/3/2/1)? or just end it cold (1/2/3/3)?
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    Quote Originally Posted by KgTomCat View Post
    No idea...

    should someone taper down when ending a ECA/ECY cycle? (1/2/3/3/2/1)? or just end it cold (1/2/3/3)?
    ive read of it being done both ways. if ur prone to it u might get some withdrawal symptoms?

    i just ended mine, i missed a couple doses and decided to just stop. so i went from 100mg hcl to 0 overnight, i feel fine.

    if u want to be cautious maybe just spend the last week tapering down one dose every few days until u get to none. im not sure a whole week is necessary for each
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    Quote Originally Posted by faaipdeoiad View Post
    ive read of it being done both ways. if ur prone to it u might get some withdrawal symptoms?

    i just ended mine, i missed a couple doses and decided to just stop. so i went from 100mg hcl to 0 overnight, i feel fine.

    if u want to be cautious maybe just spend the last week tapering down one dose every few days until u get to none. im not sure a whole week is necessary for each
    I'm just tapering down because I feel safer that way lol, I'll do it every 2 or 3 days... man
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    so i was a bit annoyed when the ax rep posted in her about slim xtreme but HOLY ****. i just tried the sample i got after taking a 5 day break from eca. it feels soooo alike its ridiculous.

    it feels just like an eca/ecy dose only without the sweating (but without the euphoria/ high as well). im not sure about the actual results being as its only 1 day but it definitely provides the energy and appetite suppression. (its odd, eca barely suppressed my appetite past day 2, i personally dont like that aspect). im off the walls right now, i just did 35 mins cardio an hour ago and im already looking for things to do.

    i dont think its on par with eca but it might be a good way to cycle off/ use in between cycles. its about 15 bucks more than an eca stack i think but it avoids the guafeineisn issues. im finishing up 2 more weeks of eca and stopping for a bit but in a few months i might consider it if the price drops. just a thought.
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    Quote Originally Posted by faaipdeoiad View Post
    so i was a bit annoyed when the ax rep posted in her about slim xtreme but HOLY ****. i just tried the sample i got after taking a 5 day break from eca. it feels soooo alike its ridiculous.

    it feels just like an eca/ecy dose only without the sweating (but without the euphoria/ high as well). im not sure about the actual results being as its only 1 day but it definitely provides the energy and appetite suppression. (its odd, eca barely suppressed my appetite past day 2, i personally dont like that aspect). im off the walls right now, i just did 35 mins cardio an hour ago and im already looking for things to do.

    i dont think its on par with eca but it might be a good way to cycle off/ use in between cycles. its about 15 bucks more than an eca stack i think but it avoids the guafeineisn issues. im finishing up 2 more weeks of eca and stopping for a bit but in a few months i might consider it if the price drops. just a thought.
    Looking at it, it has a good profile no doubt, great for energy and stamina, but doesn't have the fat burning power of ECA, just nothing does legally. Nothing targets -agonist pathway like ECA does... here is a good article for you.

    Quote Originally Posted by TruelyHuge
    FITNESS TIPS FOR 6/15/2000
    ______________________________ _____________


    ECA Supplement Stack For Muscle Growth and Fat Loss
    by Stimulating the -Agonist System - The Role of Ephedrine,
    Caffeine, and Aspirin
    By Michael C. Prevost Ph.D.

    The role of the -agonist (beta agonist) pathway in controlling
    the body's fat stores, muscle hypertrophy (growth), the body's
    response to exercise and even muscle fiber type has been
    brought to light in the last 10 years through the efforts of
    hundreds of scientists with literally thousands of papers
    being published on the subject. Clearly, the -agonist pathway
    is one of the most important signalling pathways in the body.
    To understand how the -agonist pathway works and what role
    Caffeine, Ephedrine and Aspirin plays in the system one must
    first understand what a -agonist is and what they do.

    On the surfaces of many of the cells of the body (for our
    purposes the most important tissues are muscle and fat cells)
    are located b receptors. These b receptors bind b-agonists
    (adrenaline and noradrenaline). When a -agonist is bound
    to a b receptor, the receptor initiates a series of chemical
    reactions that results in the production of a chemical
    messenger called C-AMP. This C-AMP then activates
    enzymes that phosphorylate proteins. Why is thisimportant?
    Well, many of these proteins are enzymes and
    phosphorylation activates some enzymes and de-acitvates
    others. In fat cells enzymes are activated that induce
    lipolysis (fat breakdown). In muscle cells enzymes are
    activated that increase metabolism and cause a host of
    other important reactions which control muscle growth, fiber
    type and enzyme concentration. So, how do ephedrine,
    caffeine and aspirin fit into this pathway? Ephedrine
    enhances -agonist production and even acts as a
    -agonist itself. Caffeine inhibits the breakdown of C-AMP.
    Aspirin inhibits the negative feedback loop that would
    reduce -agonist production. So taken together these
    agents enhance three to four different steps in the -agonist
    pathway.

    Ephedrine's role as a lipolytic agent (one that breaks down
    body fat to be used as energy) has been known for some
    time. It has been shown that ephedrine when taken in
    therapeutic doses is mildly effective in the management
    of obesity. The problem was that the initial lipolytic effects
    of ephedrine were soon diminished as other steps in the
    pathway were reduced in a negative feedback cycle. In an
    effort to enhance these steps that were being
    downregulated due to negative feedback, scientists added
    caffeine and aspirin to the regime. The result was a very
    effective combination in the management of obesity
    (dosages given were 20mg ephedrine, 300mg caffeine, and
    80mg aspirin, roughly equivalent to one typical ephedrine
    tablet, a cup of coffee and one aspirin). In fact, not only
    did the results (lipolysis) not decrease over time as with
    most drugs, but they actually increased with time. The
    effects of the combination of ephedrine, caffeine and
    aspirin were categorized into desirable and undesirable
    effects. The desirable effects were lipolysis and protein
    sparing (subjects on the drug combination retained
    more muscle mass while dieting than the subjects on
    placebo). Again, these desirable effects did not diminish
    over time. The undesirable effects, increased heart rate
    and muscle tremors, lasted only a few days and never
    returned. In fact, after 1 year of supplementation subjects
    were experiencing no side effects but were still
    experiencing the desired effects of lipolysis and protein
    sparing. To date it has not been determined if the ephedrine,
    caffeine and aspirin combination can enhance muscle
    growth and fat loss in healthy, exercising adults. However,
    based on what we know about the -agonist system, it is
    certainly possible. It is important to note, however, that a
    small handful of subjects among the large subject pool
    had to drop out of the study due to an intolerance to the
    supplementation regime. So it appears that most
    people can use the ephedrine, caffeine and aspirin
    combination with no problems, while a small handful of
    people may be intolerant. A consultation with a
    physician is suggested before beginning this ECA
    supplement regime.

    The -agonist pathway may effect processes other than
    muscle sparing and fat loss. In fact in chickens -agonists
    were shown to be stronger growth promoting agents than
    steroids (believe it or not but poultry science folks are
    doing a lot of research trying to produce more muscular
    chickens since the muscle is the meat that we eat). In fact
    -agonists seem to produce muscle growth without the
    stimulus of exercise, something steroids have failed to
    do. However -agonists are not as effective in rats and
    the effects on humans is unknown. The -agonist
    clenbuterol can cause slow twitch muscle fibers to
    be converted to fast twitch fibers. It can also prevent
    muscle atrophy due to disuse. Other studies have shown
    that b-antagonists (agents that block b-receptors and
    prevent them from functioning) cause muscles to shift
    from fast twitch to slow twitch and cause muscle atrophy
    (muscle wasting or breakdown). These studies indicate
    that -agonists might play an important role in the
    maintenance of fast twitch muscle fibers and in maintaining
    and perhaps increasing muscle mass. It may be no
    coincidence then that large amounts of -agonists
    (adrenaline and noradrenaline) are produced during
    high intensity training sessions. Perhaps these
    -agonists are necessary in initiating the muscle growth
    stimulus.

    It is important to note that some -agonists can be
    dangerous (for example clenbuterol and cocaine) and
    illegal and these substances are not recommended. Also,
    as mentioned earlier, although the -agonist combination
    of caffeine, ephedrine and aspirin appears to be safe (and of
    course legal) a small number of people are intolerant and
    consultation with a physician is suggested. Everyone
    should visit there doctor prior to using any of these
    substances for a clean bill of health.
    Adams
    The Historic PES Legend
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    Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    Looking at it, it has a good profile no doubt, great for energy and stamina, but doesn't have the fat burning power of ECA, just nothing does legally. Nothing targets -agonist pathway like ECA does... here is a good article for you.



    Adams
    oh wow thats actually an extremely helpful article. thanks alot. ive tried researching this but most of it is too difficult to follow the exact processes, i just had an overview of the effects. this one def breaks it down better.

    i was curious about the addition of aspirin being muscle wasting due to decreased inflammation and whatnot, but i guess its irrelevant since it actually promotes an increase in muscle mass? thats pretty ideal.

    i never meant that slim xtreme was as effective as eca, just that it felt like it resembled it somehow. i mean i cant judge having only taken one days dose, but still. looks like eca is in fact unbeatable. kinda bad that its soo addicting. i love the feeling of being on it. =(
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    Quote Originally Posted by faaipdeoiad View Post
    oh wow thats actually an extremely helpful article. thanks alot. ive tried researching this but most of it is too difficult to follow the exact processes, i just had an overview of the effects. this one def breaks it down better.

    i was curious about the addition of aspirin being muscle wasting due to decreased inflammation and whatnot, but i guess its irrelevant since it actually promotes an increase in muscle mass? thats pretty ideal.

    i never meant that slim xtreme was as effective as eca, just that it felt like it resembled it somehow. i mean i cant judge having only taken one days dose, but still. looks like eca is in fact unbeatable. kinda bad that its soo addicting. i love the feeling of being on it. =(
    maybe placebo effect?
    too much of a good thing is always a bad thing lol
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    Only thing that beat eca was nor-epedrine hci.I posted the patent on the eca stack,it has refrences in the begging to over 400 pages worth of testing done on it.some of those books cost like 200 bucks tho.

    they also tested yohimbe also and didnt use it.I think it has something to do with blood sugar because when i take yohimbe it kicks me right out of ketosis.

    if you want a bigger stim affect from eca take it with crape fruit juice.

    Eca has hundreds of doctors and research done on it.

    If this new stim fat burner is as good as they say,they should get the trials and testing done and patent the next best fat burner.
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    I've tried most fat-burners out there..again, the feeling and results I got from ECA/ECY in just 3 1/2-4 weeks is by far better than any fat-burner
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    I've only used the E/C/Y combo for about a week but I agree with KG. Honestly better results than even Clen for me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by KgTomCat View Post
    I've tried most fat-burners out there..again, the feeling and results I got from ECA/ECY in just 3 1/2-4 weeks is by far better than any fat-burner
    I agree; the results with these stacks are very prominent.

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    Does the guaifessian have any side effects with prolonged use?
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    Does the guaifessian have any side effects with prolonged use?
    Dont know. the other day my muscles felt like I was on a a muscle relaxant and took forever to eat, hopefully its just getting used to it. I skipped sunday and back today took one about one hour ago and fine..just ate with family cook out burgers, while staying on diet.mmmm whole meal yumm
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    Just wanted you all to know that CVS does carry both primatene and bronkaid if it hasn't been mentioned already. I went there to pick some up, and only saw primatene inserts on the shelf (you have to buy them from the pharmacy). When the pharmacist was ringing me up I saw boxes of bronkaid, and ended up getting two boxes of those instead.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDarkHalf View Post
    Just wanted you all to know that CVS does carry both primatene and bronkaid if it hasn't been mentioned already. I went there to pick some up, and only saw primatene inserts on the shelf (you have to buy them from the pharmacy). When the pharmacist was ringing me up I saw boxes of bronkaid, and ended up getting two boxes of those instead.
    are you implying that the primatene E is better???
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    Quote Originally Posted by KgTomCat View Post
    are you implying that the primatene E is better???
    No. They both get the job done.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDarkHalf View Post
    No. They both get the job done.
    ok thanx
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    i get primatene tablets at walmart for less than 9 bucks for 60. it's ephedrine HCL 12.5 mgs. The pharmacist has it, they ask for ID as well. No big deal.. i buy two at a time.
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    I just finished reading all 9 pages of this thread and I have some questions.

    A little background... I'm female, 5'4", 205ish. I had lapband surgery in January and I've lost 41 lbs (25 of which came off two weeks pre surgery and the first week post surgery... since then I've lost 17lbs in 17 weeks) but due to two health issues that cause weight gain and make weight loss nearly impossible (poly cystic ovaries and an underactive thyroid) my loss has been super slow and I'm OVER IT. I work out almost every day, 4-5 days a week cardio and mild strength training 1-2x a week plus 45 minutes of yoga 1-2x a week for my own sanity. I eat about 1200 cals a day. Hunger is NOT an issue for me. I've looked at this from all angles and I really need something that's going to boost my metabolism and get my body burning fat and cals the way it should. Trust me on this- I work my a$$ off and I'm struggling to lose 1 lousy pound a week.

    I have some questions about taking an ECA stack. I used to take ephedrine hci/guaifensen (or however you spell it) for energy. I'm familiar with how my body responds to it. I love it. I've been trying to lose weight without stimulants, supplements, etc. (well, aside from whey and vitamins... but you know what I mean). I'm ready to try something because I'm sick of working my butt off with little results.

    Questions-

    1) I read time and time again to experiment with dosages... but what's a good starting point for A and C? I know where to start with the E because I've taken it before and know what to expect. As I stated before, I'm 5'4" 205 female.

    2) This probably sounds like a stupid question... but what form do you buy caffeine? Can you just go to GNC and get plain ole caffeine tablets? I've never had to look for just caffeine.

    3) Can you crush any of these pills? Ephedrine is small enough that I could split it in half, and I believe asprin is small enough to take whole (depending on the dose, not sure), but if the caffeine is too big for me to swallow (I can't take big pills), can I crush it?

    Thanks so much for your help!!

    ETA- I know this will vary from person to person, but what kind of results can I expect? I'm taking a cruise in 3 months and I was really hoping to have gotten a lot farther than my current outlook of high 180s, low 190s. My losses have averaged 1lb a week, sometimes less than that. If I can get 2-3lbs a week off I'd be friggin extatic. I work my a$$ off, I wish my body would cooperate!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexoc949 View Post
    i get primatene tablets at walmart for less than 9 bucks for 60. it's ephedrine HCL 12.5 mgs. The pharmacist has it, they ask for ID as well. No big deal.. i buy two at a time.
    Does this apply to all states? I thought that is was near impossible to get your hands on any now.
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    Quote Originally Posted by KRuth22 View Post
    Does this apply to all states? I thought that is was near impossible to get your hands on any now.
    All states it is legal for asthma relief, so you can find any of them, only labelled for weight loss relief was it banned. Even then, that was overturned, and you can get weight loss formulations in most states.

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    Caffeine you can get in just tablets, here on NP 5.99 for 100 tabs from ProLab or same price 90 tabs from Primaforce. I'm sure GNC sells the same thing just add a 3 to 4 bucks to that price. They are about the same size as an ephedrine tab.

    The ideal ratio of ECA is 10 to 1 caffeine to ephedrine. 10 mg of caffeine to 1 mg of ephedrine. 200 mg of caffeine to 20 mg of ephedrine. It doesn't have to be so precise, but thats the ideal ratio. The asprin dosage for 200mg/20mg should be in the 80mg range which is 1/4 an aspirin usually. Half an aspirin is fine.

    I don't think there is really a need to crush these pills, none of them are really horse like pills.

    But I always suggest ramping up your dosage when starting off with eca to help curb any side effects that may become present. Like I wouldn't jump into 200mg/20mg 2 to 3 times a day right off the bat. Maybe 100mg/10mg once a day for 2 days, then bump it up to twice a day for a few days, then bump it to 200mg/20mg once 100mg/10mg once for a few days, then 200mg/20mg twice a day for a few days etc.
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    Quote Originally Posted by KRuth22 View Post
    Does this apply to all states? I thought that is was near impossible to get your hands on any now.
    I'm pretty sure, it is that way in Nevada and California I know for sure. Like the other poster replied, it comes in form as asthma medication. It won't be advertised as ephedrine or as a fat burner. And you may not find it at most nutrition stores. Some do, I've seen Vaspro at a few.. which is just another asthma medication.
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    since taking this eca stack my throat has gotten really dry and voice real harsh and im always coughing and spitting up mucus, i assume its cuz of the guaifessian
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    Quote Originally Posted by stellar1216 View Post
    I just finished reading all 9 pages of this thread and I have some questions.

    A little background... I'm female, 5'4", 205ish. I had lapband surgery in January and I've lost 41 lbs (25 of which came off two weeks pre surgery and the first week post surgery... since then I've lost 17lbs in 17 weeks) but due to two health issues that cause weight gain and make weight loss nearly impossible (poly cystic ovaries and an underactive thyroid) my loss has been super slow and I'm OVER IT. I work out almost every day, 4-5 days a week cardio and mild strength training 1-2x a week plus 45 minutes of yoga 1-2x a week for my own sanity. I eat about 1200 cals a day. Hunger is NOT an issue for me. I've looked at this from all angles and I really need something that's going to boost my metabolism and get my body burning fat and cals the way it should. Trust me on this- I work my a$$ off and I'm struggling to lose 1 lousy pound a week.

    I have some questions about taking an ECA stack. I used to take ephedrine hci/guaifensen (or however you spell it) for energy. I'm familiar with how my body responds to it. I love it. I've been trying to lose weight without stimulants, supplements, etc. (well, aside from whey and vitamins... but you know what I mean). I'm ready to try something because I'm sick of working my butt off with little results.

    Questions-

    1) I read time and time again to experiment with dosages... but what's a good starting point for A and C? I know where to start with the E because I've taken it before and know what to expect. As I stated before, I'm 5'4" 205 female.

    2) This probably sounds like a stupid question... but what form do you buy caffeine? Can you just go to GNC and get plain ole caffeine tablets? I've never had to look for just caffeine.

    3) Can you crush any of these pills? Ephedrine is small enough that I could split it in half, and I believe asprin is small enough to take whole (depending on the dose, not sure), but if the caffeine is too big for me to swallow (I can't take big pills), can I crush it?

    Thanks so much for your help!!

    ETA- I know this will vary from person to person, but what kind of results can I expect? I'm taking a cruise in 3 months and I was really hoping to have gotten a lot farther than my current outlook of high 180s, low 190s. My losses have averaged 1lb a week, sometimes less than that. If I can get 2-3lbs a week off I'd be friggin extatic. I work my a$$ off, I wish my body would cooperate!!!
    So im still on it but just as a warning, when u cycle off its gonna be hell for ur thyroid, ur results might slow even more and youl be extremely lethargic. Just a warning, but given that yea the stack is pretty effective.

    1. ideally i think its a 1to 10 ratio of e to c. so for every 10mg of ephedrine its 100mg caffeine. i use 24mg e hcl with a 200mg tab of caffeine. asprin is supposed to be the same ratio but i think the 84mg baby apsrin are recommended to avoid stomach issues.

    2. caffine is just sold in tabs, nutraplanet.com has the prolab ones for pretty cheap, thats where i got mine. you could drink coffee/green tea etc for it but the tabs are just more efficient

    3. the caffeine tabs split easily and the baby asprin is already small, as is the ephedrine

    results, i cant really help u here, like u said its all dependent. if ur diet and traning are already in good shape then it will help. if nothing else it gave me the energy to do longer cardio sessions and be more active, that led to some fat loss on its own.
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    Quote Originally Posted by stellar1216 View Post
    I just finished reading all 9 pages of this thread and I have some questions.

    A little background... I'm female, 5'4", 205ish. I had lapband surgery in January and I've lost 41 lbs (25 of which came off two weeks pre surgery and the first week post surgery... since then I've lost 17lbs in 17 weeks) but due to two health issues that cause weight gain and make weight loss nearly impossible (poly cystic ovaries and an underactive thyroid) my loss has been super slow and I'm OVER IT. I work out almost every day, 4-5 days a week cardio and mild strength training 1-2x a week plus 45 minutes of yoga 1-2x a week for my own sanity. I eat about 1200 cals a day. Hunger is NOT an issue for me. I've looked at this from all angles and I really need something that's going to boost my metabolism and get my body burning fat and cals the way it should. Trust me on this- I work my a$$ off and I'm struggling to lose 1 lousy pound a week.

    I have some questions about taking an ECA stack. I used to take ephedrine hci/guaifensen (or however you spell it) for energy. I'm familiar with how my body responds to it. I love it. I've been trying to lose weight without stimulants, supplements, etc. (well, aside from whey and vitamins... but you know what I mean). I'm ready to try something because I'm sick of working my butt off with little results.

    Questions-

    1) I read time and time again to experiment with dosages... but what's a good starting point for A and C? I know where to start with the E because I've taken it before and know what to expect. As I stated before, I'm 5'4" 205 female.

    2) This probably sounds like a stupid question... but what form do you buy caffeine? Can you just go to GNC and get plain ole caffeine tablets? I've never had to look for just caffeine.

    3) Can you crush any of these pills? Ephedrine is small enough that I could split it in half, and I believe asprin is small enough to take whole (depending on the dose, not sure), but if the caffeine is too big for me to swallow (I can't take big pills), can I crush it?

    Thanks so much for your help!!

    ETA- I know this will vary from person to person, but what kind of results can I expect? I'm taking a cruise in 3 months and I was really hoping to have gotten a lot farther than my current outlook of high 180s, low 190s. My losses have averaged 1lb a week, sometimes less than that. If I can get 2-3lbs a week off I'd be friggin extatic. I work my a$$ off, I wish my body would cooperate!!!
    aside from the ephedrine. I would guess that your metabolism is shot because you're not eating enough. How many cals are you burning during your cardio sessions? I would bump up your calories at least on those days to 1500 calories. And are you spreading those calories out throughout the day? 1500 calories can be 5 meals/snacks at 300 cals or 6 meals/snacks at 250 cals. I'd even throw in a day of around maintenance calories.... one day a week of say 2200 calories. I'm just guessing with all this, but eating 1200 calories and doing cardio on the same day and you're not hungry.. likely cause you're metabolism is at a snails pace.

    Also have you considered possibly going on a low carb diet to switch things up?
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    Quote Originally Posted by stellar1216 View Post

    1) I read time and time again to experiment with dosages... but what's a good starting point for A and C? I know where to start with the E because I've taken it before and know what to expect. As I stated before, I'm 5'4" 205 female.

    2) This probably sounds like a stupid question... but what form do you buy caffeine? Can you just go to GNC and get plain ole caffeine tablets? I've never had to look for just caffeine.

    3) Can you crush any of these pills? Ephedrine is small enough that I could split it in half, and I believe asprin is small enough to take whole (depending on the dose, not sure), but if the caffeine is too big for me to swallow (I can't take big pills), can I crush it?
    1. Typical dosing for ECA generally consists of 25mg ephedra (sulfate), 200mg caffeine, and 81mg aspirin (baby asprin, I buy bayer). I'm doing the aspirin every other day, as the half life of aspirin is rather lengthy. On the days that i do not dose aspirin, i'll drink some green tea as it has a similar role that the aspirin has. I would recommend taking one pill of the ephedra and caffeine everyday and one pill of the aspirin every other day. One you adapt to this, increase the serving to twice a day, and so on. Do not exceed more that 100mg of ephedra in a day.

    2. I buy everything I need for ECA at CVS. Bronkaid, Caffeine, and Bayer. I'm sure you can also score everything you need at a Walgreens or Walmart.

    3. You should not have any need to crush these pills as they are relatively small and easy to swallow.

    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    since taking this eca stack my throat has gotten really dry and voice real harsh and im always coughing and spitting up mucus, i assume its cuz of the guaifessian
    Try increasing your water intake, sounds like you aren't getting enough.
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexoc949 View Post
    aside from the ephedrine. I would guess that your metabolism is shot because you're not eating enough. How many cals are you burning during your cardio sessions? I would bump up your calories at least on those days to 1500 calories. And are you spreading those calories out throughout the day? 1500 calories can be 5 meals/snacks at 300 cals or 6 meals/snacks at 250 cals. I'd even throw in a day of around maintenance calories.... one day a week of say 2200 calories. I'm just guessing with all this, but eating 1200 calories and doing cardio on the same day and you're not hungry.. likely cause you're metabolism is at a snails pace.

    Also have you considered possibly going on a low carb diet to switch things up?
    Thanks for your suggestions. I did the math with my nutritionist pre-surgery and we did the whole take my BMR and subtract 500... which brought me to 1200. I thought as long as I didn't go below half of maintanence (which was around 1700-1800, divided by two = 900ish cals) that I wouldn't go into starvation mode. Most people in my support group eat about that much as well and do good. At this point I'm up for trying anything and the worst that can happen is the same thing I've been dealing with for what seems like forever so there's no harm.

    For my cardio, I do about 45 minutes... I average about 17 minute miles for 45 minutes... my speed stays between 3.2-3.5mph with a few spurts of jogging at 5mph for about 1-2 minutes each. I believe my cals burned are (according to the calculator on sparkpeople.com) around 200ish. Wow that's pretty embarrassing... what's more embarrassing is that I worked my way up from doing 20 minutes at 2.5-2.7mph!

    I tried low carb but it was hell on my body. I have never had such bad constipation... and I was taking a fiber supplement. I was taking miralax every day and I was miserable. My carbs were at about 20g per day then. Right now I keep it at around 40-60g a day.

    Feel free to offer more suggestions as I could really use them. People in the support group are die hard about sticking to what the nutritionist and surgeon tell them.... but those things aren't working for me and my doc has no interest in doing anything else or offering any other options/suggestions unless my average drops below 1lb a week.
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    Quote Originally Posted by stellar1216 View Post
    Thanks for your suggestions. I did the math with my nutritionist pre-surgery and we did the whole take my BMR and subtract 500... which brought me to 1200. I thought as long as I didn't go below half of maintanence (which was around 1700-1800, divided by two = 900ish cals) that I wouldn't go into starvation mode. Most people in my support group eat about that much as well and do good. At this point I'm up for trying anything and the worst that can happen is the same thing I've been dealing with for what seems like forever so there's no harm.

    For my cardio, I do about 45 minutes... I average about 17 minute miles for 45 minutes... my speed stays between 3.2-3.5mph with a few spurts of jogging at 5mph for about 1-2 minutes each. I believe my cals burned are (according to the calculator on sparkpeople.com) around 200ish. Wow that's pretty embarrassing... what's more embarrassing is that I worked my way up from doing 20 minutes at 2.5-2.7mph!

    I tried low carb but it was hell on my body. I have never had such bad constipation... and I was taking a fiber supplement. I was taking miralax every day and I was miserable. My carbs were at about 20g per day then. Right now I keep it at around 40-60g a day.

    Feel free to offer more suggestions as I could really use them. People in the support group are die hard about sticking to what the nutritionist and surgeon tell them.... but those things aren't working for me and my doc has no interest in doing anything else or offering any other options/suggestions unless my average drops below 1lb a week.
    Well, 17 minute miles, that's walking.. right? I don't think you can see huge results if that's what you're doing for cardio. Maybe other people disagree. Are you on a treadmill or walking outside? I think you gotta push yourself on the cardio, constantly try to improve your mile per hour at 45 minutes. I know you gotta start somewhere, but if you're not striving to get faster, being casual and don't feel like you're getting a workout afterwards.. i can't see results coming at a faster pace.

    That's what I would work on. Calories I guess I would keep the same to see what happens with intensifying your cardio, but still would have one day a week where you upped your cals
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    Quote Originally Posted by stellar1216 View Post
    I just finished reading all 9 pages of this thread and I have some questions.

    A little background... I'm female, 5'4", 205ish. I had lapband surgery in January and I've lost 41 lbs (25 of which came off two weeks pre surgery and the first week post surgery... since then I've lost 17lbs in 17 weeks) but due to two health issues that cause weight gain and make weight loss nearly impossible (poly cystic ovaries and an underactive thyroid) my loss has been super slow and I'm OVER IT. I work out almost every day, 4-5 days a week cardio and mild strength training 1-2x a week plus 45 minutes of yoga 1-2x a week for my own sanity. I eat about 1200 cals a day. Hunger is NOT an issue for me. I've looked at this from all angles and I really need something that's going to boost my metabolism and get my body burning fat and cals the way it should. Trust me on this- I work my a$$ off and I'm struggling to lose 1 lousy pound a week.

    I have some questions about taking an ECA stack. I used to take ephedrine hci/guaifensen (or however you spell it) for energy. I'm familiar with how my body responds to it. I love it. I've been trying to lose weight without stimulants, supplements, etc. (well, aside from whey and vitamins... but you know what I mean). I'm ready to try something because I'm sick of working my butt off with little results.

    Questions-

    1) I read time and time again to experiment with dosages... but what's a good starting point for A and C? I know where to start with the E because I've taken it before and know what to expect. As I stated before, I'm 5'4" 205 female.

    2) This probably sounds like a stupid question... but what form do you buy caffeine? Can you just go to GNC and get plain ole caffeine tablets? I've never had to look for just caffeine.

    3) Can you crush any of these pills? Ephedrine is small enough that I could split it in half, and I believe asprin is small enough to take whole (depending on the dose, not sure), but if the caffeine is too big for me to swallow (I can't take big pills), can I crush it?

    Thanks so much for your help!!

    ETA- I know this will vary from person to person, but what kind of results can I expect? I'm taking a cruise in 3 months and I was really hoping to have gotten a lot farther than my current outlook of high 180s, low 190s. My losses have averaged 1lb a week, sometimes less than that. If I can get 2-3lbs a week off I'd be friggin extatic. I work my a$$ off, I wish my body would cooperate!!!
    Really you need to learn diet first and learn how to bring down the weight with diet, if possible. The Eca stack if you dont stay on it year round generally the weight goes back on to some degree.



    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    since taking this eca stack my throat has gotten really dry and voice real harsh and im always coughing and spitting up mucus, i assume its cuz of the guaifessian
    Quote Originally Posted by alexoc949 View Post
    aside from the ephedrine. I would guess that your metabolism is shot because you're not eating enough. How many cals are you burning during your cardio sessions? I would bump up your calories at least on those days to 1500 calories. And are you spreading those calories out throughout the day? 1500 calories can be 5 meals/snacks at 300 cals or 6 meals/snacks at 250 cals. I'd even throw in a day of around maintenance calories.... one day a week of say 2200 calories. I'm just guessing with all this, but eating 1200 calories and doing cardio on the same day and you're not hungry.. likely cause you're metabolism is at a snails pace.

    Also have you considered possibly going on a low carb diet to switch things up?
    calories are probally too low unless your like 150 lbs

    Quote Originally Posted by alexoc949 View Post
    Well, 17 minute miles, that's walking.. right? I don't think you can see huge results if that's what you're doing for cardio. Maybe other people disagree. Are you on a treadmill or walking outside? I think you gotta push yourself on the cardio, constantly try to improve your mile per hour at 45 minutes. I know you gotta start somewhere, but if you're not striving to get faster, being casual and don't feel like you're getting a workout afterwards.. i can't see results coming at a faster pace.

    That's what I would work on. Calories I guess I would keep the same to see what happens with intensifying your cardio, but still would have one day a week where you upped your cals
    Low intensity cardio works fine...remember all low intensity is to burn calories, diet should do most of the work and all Eca does is a fat loss up.

    I know if your a bigger guy and over 25 too much excessive ground cardio for weeks and monbths at a time,starts taking its toll on the hips, knees. Morever, it also burns muscle if done high intensity. if your a marathon runner fine, bodybuilders though should keep it at a moderate-lower pace and longer time..especially if your an immediate bodybuiler/more advanced.
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexoc949 View Post
    aside from the ephedrine. I would guess that your metabolism is shot because you're not eating enough. How many cals are you burning during your cardio sessions? I would bump up your calories at least on those days to 1500 calories. And are you spreading those calories out throughout the day? 1500 calories can be 5 meals/snacks at 300 cals or 6 meals/snacks at 250 cals. I'd even throw in a day of around maintenance calories.... one day a week of say 2200 calories. I'm just guessing with all this, but eating 1200 calories and doing cardio on the same day and you're not hungry.. likely cause you're metabolism is at a snails pace.

    Also have you considered possibly going on a low carb diet to switch things up?
    I did this, went way too low on the cals when I first started cutting. You have to eat a certain amount to fuel the fat burning process, but good post
    Quote Originally Posted by stellar1216 View Post
    Thanks for your suggestions. I did the math with my nutritionist pre-surgery and we did the whole take my BMR and subtract 500... which brought me to 1200. I thought as long as I didn't go below half of maintanence (which was around 1700-1800, divided by two = 900ish cals) that I wouldn't go into starvation mode. Most people in my support group eat about that much as well and do good. At this point I'm up for trying anything and the worst that can happen is the same thing I've been dealing with for what seems like forever so there's no harm.

    For my cardio, I do about 45 minutes... I average about 17 minute miles for 45 minutes... my speed stays between 3.2-3.5mph with a few spurts of jogging at 5mph for about 1-2 minutes each. I believe my cals burned are (according to the calculator on sparkpeople.com) around 200ish. Wow that's pretty embarrassing... what's more embarrassing is that I worked my way up from doing 20 minutes at 2.5-2.7mph!

    I tried low carb but it was hell on my body. I have never had such bad constipation... and I was taking a fiber supplement. I was taking miralax every day and I was miserable. My carbs were at about 20g per day then. Right now I keep it at around 40-60g a day.

    Feel free to offer more suggestions as I could really use them. People in the support group are die hard about sticking to what the nutritionist and surgeon tell them.... but those things aren't working for me and my doc has no interest in doing anything else or offering any other options/suggestions unless my average drops below 1lb a week.
    I just skimmed over this but from what I read, low carb isn't easy, if it was we'd all be doing it, thats why you up your healthy fat intake, up the cardio, incline walking at 2.8-3.2 should be just fine, at first its easy, but as you lower your cals and drop the initial weight it will get harder, trust me lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexoc949 View Post
    Well, 17 minute miles, that's walking.. right? I don't think you can see huge results if that's what you're doing for cardio. Maybe other people disagree. Are you on a treadmill or walking outside? I think you gotta push yourself on the cardio, constantly try to improve your mile per hour at 45 minutes. I know you gotta start somewhere, but if you're not striving to get faster, being casual and don't feel like you're getting a workout afterwards.. i can't see results coming at a faster pace.

    That's what I would work on. Calories I guess I would keep the same to see what happens with intensifying your cardio, but still would have one day a week where you upped your cals
    Yes, 17 is walking with a few minutes of jogging mixed in... that's down from about a 23 minute mile. I use a treadmill. After I get off, I do feel like I've had a good workout (remember, I'm 205 down from 246... so fitness obviously wasn't at the top of my priority list for a few years). I usually use a heart rate monitor to make sure I'm staying within target range. I've been working on it for about 3 months. I am pretty out of shape, but I've been working on it and will continue to do so. Ultimately, I want to be jogging 45 minutes straight within 4-5 months. I just need to push myself harder.
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    17 min mile is perfect for burning fat,thats where I keep my speed on cutting.Try to up the cals just a little if your getting tired doing the workouts.

    Im on my second week of eca and Im eating alot but doing major workouts,I did a double yesterday 2x50 min walks and did chest in the am and night.

    You can get away with one dose of eca for the first 3-4 days,when I start I get a huge rush and it lasts almost all day,I could never take a second dose in the first few days.

    Also try and use ephedrine hci its way more potant and is what was used to make the stack.I also take asprin every few days since it stays in you for a while.

    good luck on your way to your goals,the eca will def help out if everything else is in check.
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    Quote Originally Posted by stellar1216 View Post
    Yes, 17 is walking with a few minutes of jogging mixed in... that's down from about a 23 minute mile. I use a treadmill. After I get off, I do feel like I've had a good workout (remember, I'm 205 down from 246... so fitness obviously wasn't at the top of my priority list for a few years). I usually use a heart rate monitor to make sure I'm staying within target range. I've been working on it for about 3 months. I am pretty out of shape, but I've been working on it and will continue to do so. Ultimately, I want to be jogging 45 minutes straight within 4-5 months. I just need to push myself harder.
    Keep in mind that lower intensity cardio will burn less overall calories, but will take most of those calories from fat.
  

  
 

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