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  1. Quote Originally Posted by B5150 View Post
    Green Tea Extract (ECGC) will provide similar benefits as it is a COMT inhibitor with the added benefit of being a potent anti-oxidant.

    Take Green Tea Extract (ECGC) and you don't need the caffeine or the aspirin.

    TEA-GCG™ (Green Tea Caps) (100 caps)
    very nice information!
    Follow me on facebook, twitter and youtube, where I share information and videos to help you achieve your physique goals, John Smeton Ftness


  2. Good shout above!

    Ive always taken green tea with the EC(Y) stack.

    Being honest i only knew the surface of the science behind it but that nice little study has made me feel smug lol.
    •   
       


  3. Quote Originally Posted by skratch View Post
    guys add aspirin every other day,it was used in the original eca for a reason and is has a patent on it.

    There is scientific testing done on it,It keeps the body from stopping the norephrine down regulation.

    add yohimbe to block the bad receptors if you can handle the stim.Here is a paste of an old write up.

    Ephedrine enhances the release of the hormone norepinephrine in the body, and also binds to the same receptors as that hormone, causing excess calories to be converted to heat instead of being stored as fat. It also raises blood pressure. Epinephrine and norepinephrine are also known as adrenaline and noradrenaline. Ephedrine thus acts to stimulate an "adrenaline rush".

    Interactions with caffeine and aspirin can increase the effects of ephedrine. Norepinephrine works in part by increasing the levels of cyclic AMP in cells. Caffeine inhibits the enzyme that breaks down cyclic AMP. Together, ephedrine makes more cyclic AMP, and caffeine prevents it from breaking down. Aspirin inhibits the receptors that turn off release of norepinephrine. So ephedrine releases norepinephrine, and aspirin prevents the release from being turned off.

    Ephedrine by itself has been shown to be ineffective as a weight loss treatment. Ephedrine combined with either caffeine or aspirin was effective. The effect appears to be caused by a reduction in appetite, and preventing the metabolic rate decrease usually associated with a reduced calorie diet.
    Quote Originally Posted by B5150 View Post
    Green Tea Extract (ECGC) will provide similar benefits as it is a COMT inhibitor with the added benefit of being a potent anti-oxidant.

    Take Green Tea Extract (ECGC) and you don't need the caffeine or the aspirin.

    TEA-GCG™ (Green Tea Caps) (100 caps)
    so your saying Aspirin enhances the effects? therefore it is required? what if you did E/C/A/Y

    same thing as above but what if you did E/C/A/Y/G
    G-green tea extract
  4. Unbreakable
    David Dunn's Avatar

    "I" am saying don't waste your time with aspirin.
    The fool says in his heart “There is no God."

    I vehemently support your right to take offense to anything I post.

  5. Quote Originally Posted by B5150 View Post
    "I" am saying don't waste your time with aspirin.
    So you would recommend E/C/G or E/C/Y?
  6. Unbreakable
    David Dunn's Avatar

    If you must use E and Y together I would use E/Y/G. You don't need C as Green Tea Extract has C.

    GTE is a COMT inhibitor. This means it inhibits the downregulation of the stimulants. So it inversely increases the duration of their effects.
    The fool says in his heart “There is no God."

    I vehemently support your right to take offense to anything I post.

  7. Quote Originally Posted by B5150 View Post
    If you must use E and Y together I would use E/Y/G. You don't need C as Green Tea Extract has C.

    GTE is a COMT inhibitor. This means it inhibits the downregulation of the stimulants. So it inversely increases the duration of their effects.
    Interesting. So one could actually goes as far as just an E/G and throw out the Y and still be effective?

  8. Quote Originally Posted by B5150 View Post
    "I" am saying don't waste your time with aspirin.
    damn, I just got some Bayor baby Aspirin guess Ill get more GTE
    Quote Originally Posted by B5150 View Post
    If you must use E and Y together I would use E/Y/G. You don't need C as Green Tea Extract has C.

    GTE is a COMT inhibitor. This means it inhibits the downregulation of the stimulants. So it inversely increases the duration of their effects.
    Ill start using my GTE today, how should it be dosed?
    Quote Originally Posted by TheDarkHalf View Post
    Interesting. So one could actually goes as far as just an E/G and throw out the Y and still be effective?
    this what I hope on doing
  9. Unbreakable
    David Dunn's Avatar

    I'm not saying throw out the Y. E targets beta receptors and Y targets alpha receptors. If you have adipose that is either, or, then use either, or, accordingly.
    The fool says in his heart “There is no God."

    I vehemently support your right to take offense to anything I post.

  10. Quote Originally Posted by B5150 View Post
    I'm not saying throw out the Y. E targets beta receptors and Y targets alpha receptors. If you have adipose that is either, or, then use either, or, accordingly.
    ok, Ive been dosing everything accordingly...Im not dumb lol. Im going to do one week of C, then do the GTE on my taper down 3/2/1...I think that'll be a good combination. So then it will be E/Y/A/GTE
    I started Aspirin today (81mg) tomorrow I will increase the dose to 2x a day for a week or two, then 3x a day for a week, being that its baby Aspirin, and Im a big guy, how do you think I should dose it?

  11. just got from my WO...felt so drained it was hard to do cardio, inclined walking, I dont know why

  12. Quote Originally Posted by KgTomCat View Post
    Ill start using my GTE today, how should it be dosed?
    I use one gram in the morning and one gram post workout.

  13. I wish NP would carry 12.5mg ephedrine caps.

    Adams
    The Historic PES Legend

  14. Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    I wish NP would carry 12.5mg ephedrine caps.

    Adams
    Is that legal?

    Is there anywhere you can buy that now? I thought the only way to legally get ephedrine is in cold medicine?

  15. Quote Originally Posted by LAGear View Post
    Is that legal?

    Is there anywhere you can buy that now? I thought the only way to legally get ephedrine is in cold medicine?
    There are i believe 5 states that you cannot purchase in. Some states allow only 12.5mgs to be purchased, and the rest have no restrictions. So selling 12.5mg would keep everyone happy (Though that is as high as you really need IMO). Then just do not sell to those few states that you cannot.

    Adams
    The Historic PES Legend

  16. Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    I wish NP would carry 12.5mg ephedrine caps.

    Adams
    post WO...never thought of that, why post?

  17. Quote Originally Posted by KgTomCat View Post
    post WO...never thought of that, why post?
    ??? Did I say Post WO somewhere?

    Adams
    The Historic PES Legend

  18. Adams he was talking about the green tea post WO not the E lol

  19. Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    ??? Did I say Post WO somewhere?

    Adams
    no, lol, this is weird...i meant to reply to LAGears post...

    Originally Posted by KgTomCat
    Ill start using my GTE today, how should it be dosed?
    Originally Posted by LAGear
    I use one gram in the morning and one gram post workout.

  20. Quote Originally Posted by KgTomCat View Post
    post WO...never thought of that, why post?
    Honestly, I don't remember why I made the decision to take half my dose PWO when I started using GTE

    It may have been because of something I read, it could be because it was a convenient time to add into my shakes (not a good idea to use it too late because of the caffeine), it may be because I take it with dext/malto at that time so it might be absorbed faster.

  21. Quote Originally Posted by B5150 View Post
    "I" am saying don't waste your time with aspirin.
    Why would you sugest this,I have tried eca many times and with aspirin it worked better every time.

    There are many studies done at countless universities that used aspirin in there testing.

    it blocks Prostaglandin in the cycle for thermogenesis.

    here is a picture from 1993 that was used in a study.ECA has been tested for up to 24 weeks and it showed that it kept on increasing ne while increasing the camp cycle.Where not taking about receptor downregulation,with eca you can get used to the stim affect after a week but there thermogenisis lasts for over 6 months.The aspirin plays a huge role in that.



    An additional claim made by proponents of ECA-induced weight loss is that the thermogenic effects are
    limited to fat catabolism, and that there is no protein catabolism, increased heart rate, or tremors which are
    associated with other sympathetic stimulation. One hypothesis is that the main stimulation by ephedrine is
    through beta2- and beta3-adrenergic receptor subtypes (2, 7), both of which are predominantly responsible
    for lipolysis and protein synthesis, but are not associated with cardiovascular and central nervous system
    effects mediated by beta1-receptor (2). Tolerance rapidly develops to the effects of ephedrine on heart rate,
    but does not develop to the thermogenic effects (2, 8-12), suggesting that different mechanisms are
    responsible for these different effects, and that ephedrine has longer-acting effects on thermogenesis.
    The third component of the ECA combination, aspirin, enhances the peripheral actions of ephedrine and
    caffeine by inhibiting prostaglandin (PG) synthesis. PGs, like adenosine, have been implicated in inhibiting
    NE release from the post-synaptic nerve terminal, and in inhibiting the lipolytic actions of sympathetic
    stimulants (2). However, these effects have been limited to only one study, and more experiments must be
    performed before this effect can be conclusively linked to aspirin.
    In summary, the effects of ephedrine, caffeine, and aspirin in rat brown adipose tissue involve a significant
    central component of increased NE release, and a contributing peripheral part that has direct action on the
    target tissue. These peripheral actions act to directly increase stimulation of beta-adrenergic receptors
    (especially the beta2- and beta3-subtypes), to inhibit the regulatory mechanisms of negative feedback by
    adenosine and PGs extracellularly, and to inhibit the destruction of cAMP by PDE intracellularly. This
    overall scheme is depicted in Figure 1.
    Efficacy

  22. Quote Originally Posted by LAGear View Post
    I use one gram in the morning and one gram post workout.
    The more important thing is how much EGCG you are getting per dose of GTE. Aim for about 400mg EGCG per dose. Take twice daily.

  23. Quote Originally Posted by strategicmove View Post
    The more important thing is how much EGCG you are getting per dose of GTE. Aim for about 400mg EGCG per dose. Take twice daily.
    NP GTE powder is 50% ECGC so I'm getting 500mg twice a day.

  24. Quote Originally Posted by LAGear View Post
    NP GTE powder is 50% ECGC so I'm getting 500mg twice a day.
    Awesome.

  25. Quote Originally Posted by strategicmove View Post
    The more important thing is how much EGCG you are getting per dose of GTE. Aim for about 400mg EGCG per dose. Take twice daily.
    I just have the Vitmain Shoppe brand of GTE, never really considered GTE an important supp, until now

  26. Quote Originally Posted by skratch View Post
    Why would you sugest this,I have tried eca many times and with aspirin it worked better every time.

    There are many studies done at countless universities that used aspirin in there testing.

    it blocks Prostaglandin in the cycle for thermogenesis.

    here is a picture from 1993 that was used in a study.ECA has been tested for up to 24 weeks and it showed that it kept on increasing ne while increasing the camp cycle.Where not taking about receptor downregulation,with eca you can get used to the stim affect after a week but there thermogenisis lasts for over 6 months.The aspirin plays a huge role in that.



    An additional claim made by proponents of ECA-induced weight loss is that the thermogenic effects are
    limited to fat catabolism, and that there is no protein catabolism, increased heart rate, or tremors which are
    associated with other sympathetic stimulation. One hypothesis is that the main stimulation by ephedrine is
    through beta2- and beta3-adrenergic receptor subtypes (2, 7), both of which are predominantly responsible
    for lipolysis and protein synthesis, but are not associated with cardiovascular and central nervous system
    effects mediated by beta1-receptor (2). Tolerance rapidly develops to the effects of ephedrine on heart rate,
    but does not develop to the thermogenic effects (2, 8-12), suggesting that different mechanisms are
    responsible for these different effects, and that ephedrine has longer-acting effects on thermogenesis.
    The third component of the ECA combination, aspirin, enhances the peripheral actions of ephedrine and
    caffeine by inhibiting prostaglandin (PG) synthesis. PGs, like adenosine, have been implicated in inhibiting
    NE release from the post-synaptic nerve terminal, and in inhibiting the lipolytic actions of sympathetic
    stimulants (2). However, these effects have been limited to only one study, and more experiments must be
    performed before this effect can be conclusively linked to aspirin.
    In summary, the effects of ephedrine, caffeine, and aspirin in rat brown adipose tissue involve a significant
    central component of increased NE release, and a contributing peripheral part that has direct action on the
    target tissue. These peripheral actions act to directly increase stimulation of beta-adrenergic receptors
    (especially the beta2- and beta3-subtypes), to inhibit the regulatory mechanisms of negative feedback by
    adenosine and PGs extracellularly, and to inhibit the destruction of cAMP by PDE intracellularly. This
    overall scheme is depicted in Figure 1.
    Efficacy
    so ECA is better than ECY....
    what about GTE????????
  27. Unbreakable
    David Dunn's Avatar

    You keep mising the point...E stimulates beta receptors, Y stimulates alpha receptors. Different receptors different adipose.

    Advanced Fat Loss Discussion (alpha/beta receptors)
    The fool says in his heart “There is no God."

    I vehemently support your right to take offense to anything I post.

  28. Quote Originally Posted by B5150 View Post
    You keep mising the point...E stimulates beta receptors, Y stimulates alpha receptors. Different receptors different adipose.

    Advanced Fat Loss Discussion (alpha/beta receptors)
    I understand, I want to know if E/C/A/Y is safe? if it is, I will dose all, or EOD..
    how do I dose the A? Im taking baby Aspirin (81mg)
  29. Unbreakable
    David Dunn's Avatar

    uuhhggg. forget about the aspirin already
    The fool says in his heart “There is no God."

    I vehemently support your right to take offense to anything I post.

  30. Quote Originally Posted by KgTomCat View Post
    I understand, I want to know if E/C/A/Y is safe? if it is, I will dose all, or EOD..
    how do I dose the A? Im taking baby Aspirin (81mg)
    so i tried this this morning, i gotta say the asprin makes a huge difference. i had stopped noticing the effects of ecy so much until today. felt like week 1 again.

    i would just take one aspirin a day at most, some people recommend one every 2 days to avoid stomach problems.

    i bought some white willow bark, supposedly the active ingredient in aspirin is a derivative of it so u can take it without stomach problems.

    ive been wondering myself about dosing ecay. everyone always has u do ecy or eca but never all 4. i tried it this morning but im thinking of just taking the aspirin once a day in the morning and dropping the y for that dose if necessary.

    as far as gte is concerned, i tried using that to replace my caffeine for a couple doses but just felt like i got less caffeine. maybe it needs to add up or something, im sure other people know better than me about it. its almost as cheap as the c so im gonna use it when i run out.

    i have an abundance of random stims so im trying to see what would work with it safely. i was thinking of tossing in some geranium extract but that may be overkill

  31. Such a headache from all the compelling arguements - i'm either going to go ECA or EGA

  32. Yohimbe is not recomended because when mixed with eca it makes a really hard stimulant effect,that is the reason why norepedrine caf/asprin was made up because nor ephedrine is much less potant as a stim as ephedrine.

    Your best bet is to use topical yohimbe an our or two before cardio.

    the ephedrine and caf dont make you lose weight,the adrenalin your body pumps out when taking them is and asprin will make your body make more adrenalin and keep it from tapping down after a few days.

    people go ahead and try it without aspirin,you will see what I mean once you add it after and you dont even need to wait a few days just add it after 5 days on ec and see how hard it will hit with the added aspirin.

    I can find many articles on eca testing,there is scientific proof that it works,why try and recreate the wheel?

    its called eca stack for a reason lol.

    Ohh and be ready to want to puke all day if you add green tea and yohimbe to that stack.

  33. Quote Originally Posted by skratch View Post
    Yohimbe is not recomended because when mixed with eca it makes a really hard stimulant effect,that is the reason why norepedrine caf/asprin was made up because nor ephedrine is much less potant as a stim as ephedrine.

    Your best bet is to use topical yohimbe an our or two before cardio.

    the ephedrine and caf dont make you lose weight,the adrenalin your body pumps out when taking them is and asprin will make your body make more adrenalin and keep it from tapping down after a few days.

    people go ahead and try it without aspirin,you will see what I mean once you add it after and you dont even need to wait a few days just add it after 5 days on ec and see how hard it will hit with the added aspirin.

    I can find many articles on eca testing,there is scientific proof that it works,why try and recreate the wheel?

    its called eca stack for a reason lol.

    Ohh and be ready to want to puke all day if you add green tea and yohimbe to that stack.
    Scratch, good post on the ECA, but I have taken EC stack for awhile, I start out slow and work up to EC and A , then add in green tea and yohimbe but taper down E as I add in Y. I started doing this about 2 weeks ago (adding in Yohimbe) and so far havent felt like puking or even have jitters....I think your right for beginners but for those who have tolerance and have used it for awhile adding Y to stack won't be a deal breaker, it is more of a break through for those who are 10% and below i think. I''m no expert like BS150 or others here- this is just what I am experiencing...

  34. Quote Originally Posted by redfury1977 View Post
    Scratch, good post on the ECA, but I have taken EC stack for awhile, I start out slow and work up to EC and A , then add in green tea and yohimbe but taper down E as I add in Y. I started doing this about 2 weeks ago (adding in Yohimbe) and so far havent felt like puking or even have jitters....I think your right for beginners but for those who have tolerance and have used it for awhile adding Y to stack won't be a deal breaker, it is more of a break through for those who are 10% and below i think. I''m no expert like BS150 or others here- this is just what I am experiencing...
    BG5150

  35. ok ok, Im just going to do ECA for a few weeks then go back to ECY...

  36. Quote Originally Posted by redfury1977 View Post
    Scratch, good post on the ECA, but I have taken EC stack for awhile, I start out slow and work up to EC and A , then add in green tea and yohimbe but taper down E as I add in Y. I started doing this about 2 weeks ago (adding in Yohimbe) and so far havent felt like puking or even have jitters....I think your right for beginners but for those who have tolerance and have used it for awhile adding Y to stack won't be a deal breaker, it is more of a break through for those who are 10% and below i think. I''m no expert like BS150 or others here- this is just what I am experiencing...
    i agree with that, ive tried doses with ecy, ecay, ecgy and one with all of them and i havent really felt the urge to puke or any additional sides. i may just have a higher tolerance from too many stimulants but it seems to be okay.

    just start off slow i guess? im not really an expert either, just learning from playing with different doses and compounds so if anyone knows any actual info why eca with green tea/ yohimbine may be bad itd be appreciated

  37. BEST PLACE TO GET THE EC I CAN GET THE ASPIRIN MYSELF LINKS PLEASE LINKS

  38. Quote Originally Posted by stfdkd37 View Post
    BEST PLACE TO GET THE EC I CAN GET THE ASPIRIN MYSELF LINKS PLEASE LINKS
    um if you had bothered to search for this anywhere let alone read nearly ANY of the pages in this thread u would probably have an answer for that...

  39. Quote Originally Posted by faaipdeoiad View Post
    so i tried this this morning, i gotta say the asprin makes a huge difference. i had stopped noticing the effects of ecy so much until today. felt like week 1 again.

    i would just take one aspirin a day at most, some people recommend one every 2 days to avoid stomach problems.

    i bought some white willow bark, supposedly the active ingredient in aspirin is a derivative of it so u can take it without stomach problems.

    ive been wondering myself about dosing ecay. everyone always has u do ecy or eca but never all 4. i tried it this morning but im thinking of just taking the aspirin once a day in the morning and dropping the y for that dose if necessary.

    as far as gte is concerned, i tried using that to replace my caffeine for a couple doses but just felt like i got less caffeine. maybe it needs to add up or something, im sure other people know better than me about it. its almost as cheap as the c so im gonna use it when i run out.

    i have an abundance of random stims so im trying to see what would work with it safely. i was thinking of tossing in some geranium extract but that may be overkill
    thats because you were used to the caffiene and the gte doesnt have as much caffiene

    Quote Originally Posted by skratch View Post
    Yohimbe is not recomended because when mixed with eca it makes a really hard stimulant effect,that is the reason why norepedrine caf/asprin was made up because nor ephedrine is much less potant as a stim as ephedrine.

    Your best bet is to use topical yohimbe an our or two before cardio.

    the ephedrine and caf dont make you lose weight,the adrenalin your body pumps out when taking them is and asprin will make your body make more adrenalin and keep it from tapping down after a few days.

    people go ahead and try it without aspirin,you will see what I mean once you add it after and you dont even need to wait a few days just add it after 5 days on ec and see how hard it will hit with the added aspirin.

    I can find many articles on eca testing,there is scientific proof that it works,why try and recreate the wheel?

    its called eca stack for a reason lol.

    Ohh and be ready to want to puke all day if you add green tea and yohimbe to that stack.

    I cant take yohimbine I did two stacks of it; although it worked the sides are too much for me. shivering, nausea, too many sides

    Quote Originally Posted by redfury1977 View Post
    Scratch, good post on the ECA, but I have taken EC stack for awhile, I start out slow and work up to EC and A , then add in green tea and yohimbe but taper down E as I add in Y. I started doing this about 2 weeks ago (adding in Yohimbe) and so far havent felt like puking or even have jitters....I think your right for beginners but for those who have tolerance and have used it for awhile adding Y to stack won't be a deal breaker, it is more of a break through for those who are 10% and below i think. I''m no expert like BS150 or others here- this is just what I am experiencing...
    thats the best way to do it if your stimulant sensative work your way up untill your comfortable

    its really no set way to do this

    you can do
    ec
    eca
    e gte
    ecay

    do what you think works best for you. it may take some expirementing. and remember every body is different so just dont take what works on someones else's word because that what works for them.
    Follow me on facebook, twitter and youtube, where I share information and videos to help you achieve your physique goals, John Smeton Ftness
  

  
 

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