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    Quote Originally Posted by bezoe View Post
    if you havent used it before, you probably want to start low anyway. Its strong stuff, believe me im a caffiene attict and 50mg E along with c and a gives me the jitters and a little shortness of breath...

    Benadryl like every third week or something like that is supposed to be the protocol for upregulating receptors. The last time i ran ECA i remember building up some tolerance then using benadryl which made me feel fresh again

    i would atleast start low the first week- like 12.5mg E a day
    There is no need to "feel it" in fact the fat loss effects grow and the health risks go down as you stop feeling it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by goonstopher View Post
    There is no need to "feel it" in fact the fat loss effects grow and the health risks go down as you stop feeling it.
    im pretty sure after the 2 or 3 weeks on ECA my weightloss halt and tolerance build up were due to receptor saturation. After cycling in benadryl i noticed that wired feeling again. I think if youve been using it for so long that you stop feeling the effects its probably due to receptor downregulation, which would mean little to no further fatloss
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    Quote Originally Posted by rochabp View Post
    a little too late for that i started like 3 days ago 1/2/4
    wow sweating is effin carzy no joke i did plyometrics so i poped 2 before and i was wearing gray and when i was done my shirt was wet from the top to my bellybutton full of sweat. kinda gross but awesome
    just be wise about your dosage.. i think diminishing returns applies with this- more is not necessarily better... and yea bro that is disgusting lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by bezoe View Post
    just be wise about your dosage.. i think diminishing returns applies with this- more is not necessarily better... and yea bro that is disgusting lol
    lol got plyometrics again today at 10:30
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    Quote Originally Posted by bezoe View Post
    im pretty sure after the 2 or 3 weeks on ECA my weightloss halt and tolerance build up were due to receptor saturation. After cycling in benadryl i noticed that wired feeling again. I think if youve been using it for so long that you stop feeling the effects its probably due to receptor downregulation, which would mean little to no further fatloss
    Thats simply not true... Read the science behind it. Don't feel like spending hours digging it up but eph does not do most of its fat loss through direct receptor stimulation but though cAMP, nor-epinephrine and other chemicals it helps to produce.
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    Quote Originally Posted by goonstopher View Post
    Thats simply not true... Read the science behind it. Don't feel like spending hours digging it up but eph does not do most of its fat loss through direct receptor stimulation but though cAMP, nor-epinephrine and other chemicals it helps to produce.
    iv enever been on E but my heart feels like its pounding harder at rest am i supposed to feel like that? sometimes at rest it pounds really hard then it goes back to normal i get hella scared is this normal. other than that everything else is okay should i bump it dow to 1 cap twice a day?
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    Quote Originally Posted by rochabp View Post
    iv enever been on E but my heart feels like its pounding harder at rest am i supposed to feel like that? sometimes at rest it pounds really hard then it goes back to normal i get hella scared is this normal. other than that everything else is okay should i bump it dow to 1 cap twice a day?
    Ha dude. Read your own words. You just said other than your HEART POUNDING SCARILY HARD... everything is fine. What dose pills are you taking?

    I have high BP now so heart issues scare me. I avoid ephedrine because of this. Nor-ephedrine is much harder to find (in a way) but does not make your heart jump out of your chest.
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    Quote Originally Posted by goonstopher View Post
    Thats simply not true... Read the science behind it. Don't feel like spending hours digging it up but eph does not do most of its fat loss through direct receptor stimulation but though cAMP, nor-epinephrine and other chemicals it helps to produce.
    im aware it doesnt directly act on adrenergic receptors. it stimulates the release of noradrenaline, which activates the receptors and allows ephinephrine/adrenaline to bind to them... ergo, sustained time on eph= eventual receptor saturation

    adrenal fatigue would set in real quick if receptors were not cleansed i would think
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilverRock View Post
    Does the ECY stack really compare to the ECA stack? What's the benefits of subbing Aspirin for Yohimbine ?
    No, I didn't like the ECY as much as the original.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bezoe View Post
    im aware it doesnt directly act on adrenergic receptors. it stimulates the release of noradrenaline, which activates the receptors and allows ephinephrine/adrenaline to bind to them... ergo, sustained time on eph= eventual receptor saturation

    adrenal fatigue would set in real quick if receptors were not cleansed i would think
    ephedrine actually shuts down beta 3 receptors nearly instantly (days) and has little activity on beta 2. So the receptors themselves are of very little importance.

    You may be right with EXTENDED time but I am sure I have read that its activities on fat loss build up with time and don't go down in any realistic amount of time (like say 8-12 weeks). Might not be scientific in the way I am saying it but I am 100% sure I have read it may time, problem is I have been reading boards daily for over a decade so its impossible to find where off the top of my head.

    Personally I dislike eca, I prefer NYC or clen but clen is used VERY carefully and limited because of the health risks and NYC is harder to find
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    Quote Originally Posted by goonstopher View Post
    ephedrine actually shuts down beta 3 receptors nearly instantly (days) and has little activity on beta 2. So the receptors themselves are of very little importance.

    You may be right with EXTENDED time but I am sure I have read that its activities on fat loss build up with time and don't go down in any realistic amount of time (like say 8-12 weeks). Might not be scientific in the way I am saying it but I am 100% sure I have read it may time, problem is I have been reading boards daily for over a decade so its impossible to find where off the top of my head.

    Personally I dislike eca, I prefer NYC or clen but clen is used VERY carefully and limited because of the health risks and NYC is harder to find
    This article confirms your argument on the chronic treatment with ephedrine... it works by converting peripheral t4 to t3 and unlike clen which completely downregulates beta 2 receptors, it does not.

    I didnt read the entire thing but it seems benadryl supplementation would be more appropriate when using clen. Looks like you are correct

    Next time i use eca (like you i am wary of health risks with clen) im gonna run it 20 weeks straight for maximum effects according to this article

    http://www.mesomorphosis.com/article...-receptors.htm
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    ^ Sick dude! 20weeks straigh.. Let me know how that goes. BTW- if someone were to run a 10weeks clen cycle, with a 4 week rest after, would Ephedrine for 3 weeks straigh AFTER the 4weeks resting peroid, be effective? Or is it better to do a 10week rest peroid (note that during the 10weeks clen cycle, ketotifen was taken ED of the 3rd,6th, and 9th week @ 2g)?

    And another question- Can Benadryl/Ketotifen be taken ED during a resting peroid to help upregulate the Beta-2 Receptors in a shorter peroid of time? Anyone.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaSlixter View Post
    ^ Sick dude! 20weeks straigh.. Let me know how that goes. BTW- if someone were to run a 10weeks clen cycle, with a 4 week rest after, would Ephedrine for 3 weeks straigh AFTER the 4weeks resting peroid, be effective? Or is it better to do a 10week rest peroid (note that during the 10weeks clen cycle, ketotifen was taken ED of the 3rd,6th, and 9th week @ 2g)?

    And another question- Can Benadryl/Ketotifen be taken ED during a resting peroid to help upregulate the Beta-2 Receptors in a shorter peroid of time? Anyone.
    I would highly recommend against that.

    Clen is heart toxic period. 10 weeks on it even stacked with an anti-histamine is a bad idea. Without an anti-h it will not work. Anti-h's increase BP and so does clen. You are basically setting up a bad situation.
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    Quote Originally Posted by goonstopher View Post
    I would highly recommend against that.

    Clen is heart toxic period. 10 weeks on it even stacked with an anti-histamine is a bad idea. Without an anti-h it will not work. Anti-h's increase BP and so does clen. You are basically setting up a bad situation.
    what about using clen topically? like clenviscerate? dermaclen?
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    Quote Originally Posted by goonstopher View Post
    I would highly recommend against that.

    Clen is heart toxic period. 10 weeks on it even stacked with an anti-histamine is a bad idea. Without an anti-h it will not work. Anti-h's increase BP and so does clen. You are basically setting up a bad situation.
    No dude your missing the poin, ive already done this. It ended on May 9th. I started an ECA stack on monday. I wanna know if i should just stop it because its probly not working due to B2 downregulation, or am i good to run the ECA with good effectiveness bcuz of the keto every 3rd week + the 4week resting period(if that was enough)? Btw the 10weeks clen was dosed low @ 80mcg ED. Had good results but i kinda plateaued out at 12%bf. want to be @ a solid 10 but do not want to contiue clen.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rochabp View Post
    what about using clen topically? like clenviscerate? dermaclen?
    Through that method the clenviscerate is targeting localized receptors of the andrenergic system causing lipolysis (breakdown of fat) .This Topical application will allow you to direct the effects, without central nervous system side effects. So yea thats good, or so they say this is what will by pass the NS.

    remember that a solely systemic Topical formula will not work. You would end up getting the same results as you would taking it orally. You must use a combo system that uses both Percutaneous Delivery with slight systemic delivery like "eviscerate" this allows the compounds to reach fat cells in high doses, without the dangerous side effects of high levels in the heart and central nervous system.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaSlixter View Post
    Through that method the clenviscerate is targeting localized receptors of the andrenergic system causing lipolysis (breakdown of fat) .This Topical application will allow you to direct the effects, without central nervous system side effects. So yea thats good, or so they say this is what will by pass the NS.

    remember that a solely systemic Topical formula will not work. You would end up getting the same results as you would taking it orally. You must use a combo system that uses both Percutaneous Delivery with slight systemic delivery like "eviscerate" this allows the compounds to reach fat cells in high doses, without the dangerous side effects of high levels in the heart and central nervous system.
    what about dermatherm target?
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaSlixter View Post
    No dude your missing the poin, ive already done this. It ended on May 9th. I started an ECA stack on monday. I wanna know if i should just stop it because its probly not working due to B2 downregulation, or am i good to run the ECA with good effectiveness bcuz of the keto every 3rd week + the 4week resting period(if that was enough)? Btw the 10weeks clen was dosed low @ 80mcg ED. Had good results but i kinda plateaued out at 12%bf. want to be @ a solid 10 but do not want to contiue clen.
    NO DUDE you missed the point... You wrote "what if someone were to..."

    That is infinitive which generally suggests the event did not take place and just because it has taken place does not make what I said any less true. The person in this what if should have thought a bit, both about reprimanding someone who was correct in reading their post and in what was posted in reply.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rochabp View Post
    what about dermatherm target?
    honestly idk bro. I havent done this, i just know its a method you can do simultaneously while on a clen/eca cycle and i told you why its possible.
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    Quote Originally Posted by goonstopher View Post
    NO DUDE you missed the point... You wrote "what if someone were to..."

    That is infinitive which generally suggests the event did not take place and just because it has taken place does not make what I said any less true. The person in this what if should have thought a bit, both about reprimanding someone who was correct in reading their post and in what was posted in reply.
    sick dude. I didnt know english teachers sign on here. But if you must know i intentionally wrote- Quote what if someone were to.. Unquote, bcuz i did not want ppl jumping off topic saying stuff like Quote again WOW you did that for 10 weeks! No way bro!, etc. Unquote again, and then me having to explain myself which would throw the conversation backwards and even more off topic, causing me to answer questions of others when it was I who intially had the question to asked it the 1st place. thus wasting precious seconds of life! But instead you did that, so purpose defeated.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaSlixter View Post
    ^ Sick dude! 20weeks straigh.. Let me know how that goes. BTW- if someone were to run a 10weeks clen cycle, with a 4 week rest after, would Ephedrine for 3 weeks straigh AFTER the 4weeks resting peroid, be effective? Or is it better to do a 10week rest peroid (note that during the 10weeks clen cycle, ketotifen was taken ED of the 3rd,6th, and 9th week @ 2g)?

    And another question- Can Benadryl/Ketotifen be taken ED during a resting peroid to help upregulate the Beta-2 Receptors in a shorter peroid of time? Anyone.
    im not sure how quickly beta 2 receptors upregulate or whether or not it is dependent on the duration and dosage at which clenbuterol was taken.

    clen is a selective beta 2 agonist and i think the half life is 36 hours.. so i would think four weeks off would be adequate, especially since ephedrine works primarily on beta 3 receptors... the only problem i see with this is ephedrine only being ran for 3 weeks lol
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    Less is best with ECA,use too much and you are abusing it. Only use this like once every year for for increased fatloss where single digits are important for6-12 weeks. 12 weeks being the very high end or maximum.

    I used it last year coming into my contest and the most I used was 50 mgs.I say 100 mgs maximum and most would do well off of 50-75 tops , after working your way up.

    I use no stimulates or low doses and last year it took like a month to get up to 25 mgs from 12. Strong stuff for non stimulate users

    Take at least one day per week off ECA.
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Smeton View Post
    Less is best with ECA,use too much and you are abusing it. Only use this like once every year for for increased fatloss where single digits are important for6-12 weeks. 12 weeks being the very high end or maximum.

    I used it last year coming into my contest and the most I used was 50 mgs.I say 100 mgs maximum and most would do well off of 50-75 tops , after working your way up.

    I use no stimulates or low doses and last year it took like a month to get up to 25 mgs from 12. Strong stuff for non stimulate users

    Take at least one day per week off ECA.
    any of us who use it for anything but medical treatment purposes are abusing it anyway. the study i posted earlier demonstrates the benefits of long term use.. of course chronic use (much more than 20 weeks) would yeild health problems, most likely cardiac related. i think if bp is monitored throughout use, 20 weeks wouldnt hurt a healthy individual at a moderate dose

    FYI, I have never used more than 50mg either and i take in about 200-300mg of caffiene via diet coke every day
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    Quote Originally Posted by bezoe View Post
    any of us who use it for anything but medical treatment purposes are abusing it anyway. the study i posted earlier demonstrates the benefits of long term use.. of course chronic use (much more than 20 weeks) would yeild health problems, most likely cardiac related. i think if bp is monitored throughout use, 20 weeks wouldnt hurt a healthy individual at a moderate dose

    FYI, I have never used more than 50mg either and i take in about 200-300mg of caffiene via diet coke every day
    I agree and you probably could get away with it for twenty weeks, and what most people are using it here for is increased metabolism for better fat loss, you need to be at least ten percent body fat or lower when using ECA. This is used as a tool for increased fat burning. If you have not got down to ten percent though, diet and exercise do that first.ECA strong stuff and needs to be respected. 25 mgs works fine

    in fact I have a method that makes it works better in my opinion

    12 mgs every two hours, it keeps energy levels MUCH more steady than 25 twice a day,. start off slow though 12 mgs and working your way up.

    In fact I am under the impression most people need not be using this unless they know precisely what they are doing though diet and exercise, and of course vast knowledge of this stack, and are extremely focused on achieving a certain percentage of body fat.

    If I never competed I would have never used this stack because if I am not competing I get get relatively lean like an easy ten percent without using anything but diet and exercise.
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    if i wanted to use OEP as my C source do i take 1 or 2 OEP with 1 bronkaid? i'm pretty sure each OEP has 100mg C
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    Quote Originally Posted by GIJane1928 View Post
    if i wanted to use OEP as my C source do i take 1 or 2 OEP with 1 bronkaid? i'm pretty sure each OEP has 100mg C
    I'm taking 2 OEP + 1 Bronkaid in the morning, 1 OEP + 1 Bronkaid 4-6 hours later.
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    okay after reading all this i am starting my eca stack tommorow

    Doses
    E-25 mgsx2-3 times a day....I dont wanna be up at night so I may alter it to two
    C 200mgs2-3 times a day
    A- 30 mgs 2-3 times a day

    Only question is this- I know there is a limit on how much ephedrine one can buy as people will extract the ephedrine to make methamphetamine. So can I buy like 2 cases how often? Also I picked up primatene tablets- and it has Guaifensin at 200 mgs I know this is a muscle relaxent (weak) IS this going to inhibit me keeping my LBM? Or is it totally not an issue here????
    Test e/dbol/epi/winnie
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/164764-schwellington-has-been.html
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    i dont know what texas' regulations are but where i am, the limit is far more than i need. It is something like 100 tabs every 60 days.
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    yeah thats more than I need too..... cool....what about the Guaifensin will this inhibit me retaining my lbm? I am going to be running this in pct from a epi/11 oxo recomp cycle i am finishing up
    Test e/dbol/epi/winnie
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    that ****


    can cause hypertension, nervousness, increased heartrate, sounds ****ty to me
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    Quote Originally Posted by D E V I L View Post
    can cause hypertension, nervousness, increased heartrate, sounds ****ty to me
    Ive tried many many fatburners or thermogenics- almost everyone has this side effect
    Test e/dbol/epi/winnie
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/164764-schwellington-has-been.html
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    Quote Originally Posted by bezoe View Post
    i dont know what texas' regulations are but where i am, the limit is far more than i need. It is something like 100 tabs every 60 days.
    Its up to 120tabs ED for most states. In CA I can get 2 Bronkaid boxes of 60tabs ED.

    Quote Originally Posted by schwellington View Post
    okay after reading all this i am starting my eca stack tommorow

    Doses
    E-25 mgsx2-3 times a day....I dont wanna be up at night so I may alter it to two
    C 200mgs2-3 times a day
    A- 30 mgs 2-3 times a day

    Only question is this- I know there is a limit on how much ephedrine one can buy as people will extract the ephedrine to make methamphetamine. So can I buy like 2 cases how often? Also I picked up primatene tablets- and it has Guaifensin at 200 mgs I know this is a muscle relaxent (weak) IS this going to inhibit me keeping my LBM? Or is it totally not an issue here????
    Its a Expectorant. Helps to loosen phlem in the airways so that you can breath easier. If anything Ephedrine is closer to a muscle relaxent.
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    cool thanks for the information man....preciate it.....yeah this stuff doesnt jack me up like other thermos I have tried- but I have some smooth non jittery energy, focus and I am sweating- quite a bit
    Test e/dbol/epi/winnie
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    Quote Originally Posted by schwellington View Post
    yeah thats more than I need too..... cool....what about the Guaifensin will this inhibit me retaining my lbm? I am going to be running this in pct from a epi/11 oxo recomp cycle i am finishing up
    Guaifensin doses need to be super high and if anything will relax muscles.I never really noticed it much.

    I am going to answer your question in here schwellington

    This is just a guideline not set in stone, it can be though if you want to do it this way

    *ALWAYS take one day per week off of your choice with benadryl that night of the night before.

    Day 1-4 12/100 mgs
    Day5-6 12/100 mgs 2 x's daily 2 hours apart
    Day 7off off benadryl
    day 8-13 12/100 2x's daily 2 hours apart
    day 14 off
    day 15-17 12/100 2 x's daily 2 hours apart
    day 18-20 12/100 3 x's daily 2 hours apart

    this is a great way to work your way up and the every two hours keeps energy levels much more steady. I have never gone above 50 mgs.

    I say stay lower than 100 at all times, and guys that weigh less maybe 75

    Some like to cycle back off I have quit cold turkey and came out fine. I added some tyrosine which I think made the landing smoother after eca stack.




    Quote Originally Posted by DaSlixter View Post
    Its up to 120tabs ED for most states. In CA I can get 2 Bronkaid boxes of 60tabs ED.



    Its a Expectorant. Helps to loosen phlem in the airways so that you can breath easier. If anything Ephedrine is closer to a muscle relaxent.
    Ephedrine is closer to a muscle relaxent?
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    I see....well I already bunked that up

    I assumed I would just start with 25mg/200mg 2x a day equaling out to 50/400 and if we throw in the asprin its at 60

    I may stay at this I may not....Depends how my body reacts

    I will take one day off a week with benadryl.....is it just regular bena?
    Test e/dbol/epi/winnie
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/164764-schwellington-has-been.html
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    Quote Originally Posted by schwellington View Post
    I see....well I already bunked that up

    I assumed I would just start with 25mg/200mg 2x a day equaling out to 50/400 and if we throw in the asprin its at 60

    I may stay at this I may not....Depends how my body reacts

    I will take one day off a week with benadryl.....is it just regular bena?
    yeah you can find generic benadryl .
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Smeton View Post
    Ephedrine is closer to a muscle relaxent?
    Well not quite what I meant. The ephedrine works by expanding your air ways, so technically loosens up your air pipe muscles expanding them and making it easier to breath. Where as guaifenesin works by thinning the mucus in the air passages (how exactly i dont know). So basically what I meant was between the effects that these two have, ephedrine works more with muscles then guaifenesin, not saying that ephedrine is infact a muscle relaxant though. But i have heard that high doses of guaifenesin can relax muscles but some where as high as 5000mg at once for a 100lbs person. So the muscle relax in this case is nothing to even think about. It'd be like drinking a glass of water and fearing you'd drown from it. Besides if the muscles where to relax, I think some creatine and a good stretch pre-w/o would easily counter that effect with good ol' ATP.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaSlixter View Post
    Well not quite what I meant. The ephedrine works by expanding your air ways, so technically loosens up your air pipe muscles expanding them and making it easier to breath. Where as guaifenesin works by thinning the mucus in the air passages (how exactly i dont know). So basically what I meant was between the effects that these two have, ephedrine works more with muscles then guaifenesin, not saying that ephedrine is infact a muscle relaxant though. But i have heard that high doses of guaifenesin can relax muscles but some where as high as 5000mg at once for a 100lbs person. So the muscle relax in this case is nothing to even think about. It'd be like drinking a glass of water and fearing you'd drown from it. Besides if the muscles where to relax, I think some creatine and a good stretch pre-w/o would easily counter that effect with good ol' ATP.
    Guaifenesin can cause it, the doses need to be high.
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    Im telling you guys this. If you mess around with an ECA stack, you can very possibly screw up your metabolism and once this happens, say goodbye to losing fat until your metabolism has been reset. This takes sometimes a month or more and involves different variables.

    Please be careful
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    Quote Originally Posted by msucurt View Post
    Im telling you guys this. If you mess around with an ECA stack, you can very possibly screw up your metabolism and once this happens, say goodbye to losing fat until your metabolism has been reset. This takes sometimes a month or more and involves different variables.

    Please be careful
    Hey,

    where did you hear or see this from?got a link.

    The bodies metabolism will go back down and maybe even below that, it will regain its "normal" self though.
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