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  1. Quote Originally Posted by Mr.50 View Post
    Adams what do you think of ECA + Alpha-Y stack? Now that DSADE has alpha burn this is a real possibility and seems it would not cause the same HR and BP problems as the Y with E but I would love to hear your feedback?

    Mr.50
    I haven't seen any studies to support or defeat AlphaY + ECA. Honestly I am not on board with Alpha-Y, but I am not on board with Yohimbine either. To many factors make Y pretty useless in our uses besides transdermally.

    Don't take this as a jab toward D's product, I am just not well versed in Alpha-Y, as the only things I have read with a strong defense has been put out by vendors. I am sure D has done his homework on it, so may be able to speak better on the subject of Alpha-Y + ECA.

    be that said, to test things out, I would first gather a baseline. Take your BP 3 times per day... say First morning, mid day, and pre bed. Do that for a week to gather an average baseline of unadulterated BP. Then begin ECA for a few days, gathering the same data. Then add in your Alpha-Y, see if you see a rise in resting BP average. Also pay attention to your heart rate... obviously resting heart rate is important, but also gather the data of middle and post exercise... see how long it remains elevated post exercise. These data points are going to be the only way to see how the stack affects your vitals in the long run. I know it sounds like a pain, but better than the long run heart disease.

    It can always be a pretty interest experiment overall as well. I used a blood glucose meter for some of these Insulin "Potentiators" or mimickers or whatever you want to call them... did the gamit of what is available.. and the funny thing... the only thing that really impacted my numbers in any way? Good old ALA (Of any isomer flavors R, K-R, Na-R)... the rest impacted my numbers pretty minimally.

    Doing these little experiments really puts you in touch with your own body chemistry... really helped me decide what supps are junk, and ones stand out.

    Adams
    The Historic PES Legend


  2. Quote Originally Posted by Derekb95svt View Post
    I love my ECA stack... just as effective as clen IMO
    Much safer as well... be it minimal or not, Heart necrosis has been shown in rats dosing clen.

    Don't care if it hasnt been reproduced or not, or what doses they were on... just doesn't tickle my fancy as being worth it... I think i would rather be a bit heavier set!

    Adams
    The Historic PES Legend
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  3. DAdams, here is the thread I was talking about earlier supporting Y for better fat loss
    Advanced Fat Loss Discussion (alpha/beta receptors)

  4. Quote Originally Posted by KgTomCat View Post
    DAdams, here is the thread I was talking about earlier supporting Y for better fat loss
    Advanced Fat Loss Discussion (alpha/beta receptors)
    I have read that thread, and i believe you missed my point about risk vs. benefit. The risk vs. reward is just not there, and oral Y is a crappy way to stimulate lipolisys unless you are that magical area where the moon lines up with Jupiter.

    A localized Y product stacked with ECA would be fine, and beneficial, but stimulating every receptor in the heart is just downright a stupid idea.

    Adams
    The Historic PES Legend

  5. I see what you mean by stimulating the hearts receptors...
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  6. Quote Originally Posted by KgTomCat View Post
    I see what you mean by stimulating the hearts receptors...
    I just believe the risk/reward just is not there... now don't get me started on anabolics and any type of fat burner!

    Adams
    The Historic PES Legend

  7. Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    I have read that thread, and i believe you missed my point about risk vs. benefit. The risk vs. reward is just not there, and oral Y is a crappy way to stimulate lipolisys unless you are that magical area where the moon lines up with Jupiter.

    A localized Y product stacked with ECA would be fine, and beneficial, but stimulating every receptor in the heart is just downright a stupid idea.

    Adams
    I sort of agree but am giving alpha-y a shot because its cheap enough

  8. question guys :

    i am taking lipodrene which has

    sida cordifolia ( 25mg ephedrine group alkaloids ), green tea extract ( 12.5mg caffeine group alkaloids ), YOHIMBE EXTRACT ( bark) ( 1mg yohimbine alkaloids), hydroxytriptophan, and a few other stuff in it

    plus it has 100mg caffeine.


    now for my question, i typically take one of these with a baby aspirin, a cup of coffee or two, and a pill or two of l arginine alpha ketogluterate. is that unsafe? i haven't seen any bad effects, but this discussion has made me wonder if there are any unseen effects on my heart.

    im 22 and healthy btw.

  9. Quote Originally Posted by soontobbeast View Post
    question guys :

    i am taking lipodrene which has

    sida cordifolia ( 25mg ephedrine group alkaloids ), green tea extract ( 12.5mg caffeine group alkaloids ), YOHIMBE EXTRACT ( bark) ( 1mg yohimbine alkaloids), hydroxytriptophan, and a few other stuff in it

    plus it has 100mg caffeine.


    now for my question, i typically take one of these with a baby aspirin, a cup of coffee or two, and a pill or two of l arginine alpha ketogluterate. is that unsafe? i haven't seen any bad effects, but this discussion has made me wonder if there are any unseen effects on my heart.

    im 22 and healthy btw.
    it is pretty low on the Yohimbine, so that should not be a concern, I personally wouldnt dose Green Tea with the aspirin, one or the other. As for why they incorporate a mild CNS depressant I can only imagine is to mellow out the EC, but wouldnt trust it since it in and of itself has shown some heart valve issues... that and it is either up or down... not both.

    Adams
    The Historic PES Legend

  10. so i can get away with not taking the aspirin even if it has that small amount of GTE in it?

    will i lose any of the fat burning effects by getting rid of the aspirin?

  11. Quote Originally Posted by soontobbeast View Post
    so i can get away with not taking the aspirin even if it has that small amount of GTE in it?

    will i lose any of the fat burning effects by getting rid of the aspirin?
    Depends... what is the amount of GTE, and not just the caffeine content within the GTE?

    Aspirin is the way to go overall... it has the effect on cAMP you are looking for, prolonging the life of ephedrine. That is why I advocate the ECA stack, none of the other fluff, cause really it is all just marketing in the long run.
    The Historic PES Legend

  12. How can GTE hurt?

  13. i dont know how much GTE is actually in it.

    stupid proprietary blend.

    what i do know is that it has 557mg of stuff in the blend.

    25mg is ephedrine ( 1st ingredient ), citrus aurantium ( 10mg synephrine ) and the GTE is the third ingredient.

    so, i really am not sure lol. however, the plus side is i just found out that synephrine is in fact bitter orange.

  14. Quote Originally Posted by justreading View Post
    How can GTE hurt?
    GTE can simulate aspirin in some facets, mixing the two can thin the blood quite a bit... some substitute GTE for Aspirin, but it does not provide the prostaglandin/cAMP activity that Aspirin does. So adding GTE does not add in any benefits, but can produce some unwanted effects. So I personally would just remain safe and leave it out for your ECA run. if you want the antioxidants, there are plenty of ways to add those in without the GTE.

    Just more of a unnecessary risk... overblown... probably, but why tempt it without and added benefit?

    you should not mix green tea and aspirin because they both prevent platelets from clotting. Using the two together may increase your risk of bleeding.
    Adams
    The Historic PES Legend

  15. another question :

    when i first started taking my ECA stack about 7 weeks ago, when i would go to the gym i'd feel like i was on cocaine or something. extreme focus, completely deferred fatigue, increased strength,basically i felt like i could keep working out all day

    now when i go i don't get that strong of effect anymore. i've taken two 5 day breaks in the past 2 months.

    my question is, even if i am not getting that strong of a body high anymore, am i still getting the thermogenesis? if not, how long should i get off of the stack to make my tolerance go back down?

    my two bottles have exp dates of august, so ive been trying to avoid taking breaks or i won't be able to get through them in time. given that info, please advise

  16. Quote Originally Posted by soontobbeast View Post
    another question :

    when i first started taking my ECA stack about 7 weeks ago, when i would go to the gym i'd feel like i was on cocaine or something. extreme focus, completely deferred fatigue, increased strength,basically i felt like i could keep working out all day

    now when i go i don't get that strong of effect anymore. i've taken two 5 day breaks in the past 2 months.

    my question is, even if i am not getting that strong of a body high anymore, am i still getting the thermogenesis? if not, how long should i get off of the stack to make my tolerance go back up?

    my two bottles have exp dates of august, so ive been trying to avoid taking breaks or i won't be able to get through them in time. given that info, please advise
    The extreme energy tails off after time, but the chemical reactions are still in the works.

    Adams
    The Historic PES Legend

  17. awesome. thanks so much adams . you're the man dude.

  18. So do you think the a-yoh is a bad idea?

  19. Quote Originally Posted by justreading View Post
    So do you think the a-yoh is a bad idea?
    I am not sure.. i am not well versed in the alpha... you can watch your vitals as I detailed out on the last page, and you can gauge for yourself. I know regular Yohimbine and ECA is a no-no, I dont know the effects on the CNS/BP/HR of the alpha product.

    Adams
    The Historic PES Legend

  20. Quote Originally Posted by KgTomCat View Post
    I know its bad to stop cold turkey, espec on stims such as ECA, I did a 2 day taper...wasn't enough, obviously
    You probably should taper off one week at a time..so run your ECA 1/2/3/4/3/2/1 done.

  21. yeah the guy in the video talks about tapering down to a low dose and the low dose to nothing has effects.

    yes when you come off your going to have side effects. so say im doing 3 per day...I go two the next week and one the next week..(If i really need it a half a dose since this is strong stuff) then nothing while keeping the caffiene for a couple more weeks with l-tyrosine then after caffiene iis tapered down keeping the tyrosine..

    everythings going to have side effects theres no way around it..this just gets your body used to them. Everyone keep us updated on how you come off and how many weeks it takes to reduce dosage and come off. I'll keep everyone updated..and remember evety bodies different so that was a general outline some people may be able to quit cold turkey and others may need a full six- eight weeks to stop,depending on the dose, while everything in between. just take it easy coming down for a smooth landing you dont want a jerky nervewracking landing so treat the dosing that way on Eca.
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  22. Quote Originally Posted by smeton_yea View Post
    yeah the guy in the video talks about tapering down to a low dose and the low dose to nothing has effects.

    yes when you come off your going to have side effects. so say im doing 3 per day...I go two the next week and one the next week..(If i really need it a half a dose since this is strong stuff) then nothing while keeping the caffiene for a couple more weeks with l-tyrosine then after caffiene iis tapered down keeping the tyrosine..

    everythings going to have side effects theres no way around it..this just gets your body used to them. Everyone keep us updated on how you come off and how many weeks it takes to reduce dosage and come off. I'll keep everyone updated..and remember evety bodies different so that was a general outline some people may be able to quit cold turkey and others may need a full six- eight weeks to stop,depending on the dose, while everything in between. just take it easy coming down for a smooth landing you dont want a jerky nervewracking landing so treat the dosing that way on Eca.
    I'll be doing the same. I'm upping my dosage to 4 bronk, 4 no doze, and 4 aspirin tomorrow. After a week of that i'll be tapering down to 3 per day, then 2 per day, then 1 per day. That's probably the best and safest way to taper off without experiencing sides.....for each week on you should spend a week tapering off. My .02

  23. DAdams......thanks much for the useful feedback on the alpha-Y above!

    Mr.50

  24. Ive asked this earlier in the thread . no-one said they did it. i dont see why it wouldnt be effective

    has any person done 2 bronkaids in one dose?

    heres my problem Im sensative to stimulants in general and like to dose twice a day, preferally earlier, four hours apart.

    example say a person wants to take 3 per day and they dose two upon awaking and one four hours later (each with 200 mgs caffiene)

    or

    some one wants to take four per day(50 mgs per dose) and they dose it two, twice daily.

    its taken me three weeks just to get up to two per day and I feel it. I've never been a big stimulant user, untill a couple years ago, and even still the effects are heavy. I say if you get too stimmed out give it time to increase dose and learn how the body works

    Dark has a good outline of 1/2/3/4/3/2/1 if your used to stimulants but I couldnt do it like that as it was my first timke this time using eca and I had to increase 0.5 doses.

    My guess is it takes time for your body to go up and down and too sudden of a dose isnt the best thing , so if your not familar with eca and pay attention to how your body is reacting.
    Facebook John Smeton Fitness
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  25. I think you answered your own question man

  26. Quote Originally Posted by KgTomCat View Post
    I think you answered your own question man
    I think your right..unless some one says its unsafe and proves it to do two BK's at once
    Facebook John Smeton Fitness
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  27. Quote Originally Posted by smeton_yea View Post
    I think your right..unless some one says its unsafe and proves it to do two BK's at once
    I think it's definitely doable, it just all depends on the individual. Always be sure to exercise caution.

    I remember reading somewhere that for every 25mg of E you should be getting around 200mg of C - so I personally wouldn't want to take 50 of E and only 200 C, i'd suck it up and take 50 of E and 400 C. At which point, I think anyone no matter how stim tolerant you are would become extremely cracked out so to speak. I know i'd be wired like a mothertrucker.

  28. you could cut on E in half, do 1 1/2 then increase it to 2 whole ones, just a thought

  29. guys if you really want to go ballz out,after 3 weeks of eca,add T2 hormone for the last 2 weeks,it will def get that last 6-8 lbs off.

    I just started adding t2 a few days ago and I am soaked after 25min of walking on the tredmill.

  30. Quote Originally Posted by skratch View Post
    guys if you really want to go ballz out,after 3 weeks of eca,add T2 hormone for the last 2 weeks,it will def get that last 6-8 lbs off.

    I just started adding t2 a few days ago and I am soaked after 25min of walking on the tredmill.
    I am a big fan of T2... also T4... T3 is horrible.
    The Historic PES Legend
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