penatrate test base?

Page 2 of 3 First 123 Last

  1. Quote Originally Posted by ThisGuy2 View Post
    Well, I can't in good conscience tell you it's safe. There is always a risk with ordering such products from overseas. How much is debatable. I can say I've read many instances where people have repeatedly done so without consequence. Furthermore, you'd likely be much better off ordering 10g, which can be found online, as opposed to 100g, which there is no question is a distribution-size amount. 10g is enough for a 6 week run at the aforementioned dosage, btw.
    I think a lot of people get away with ordering 10 or 100g packages of raws from overseas, just based on reading AAS forums. But I've read a few threads where things didn't go so smoothly. One guy went to the PO to get his package (raw powder) but lots of environmental ques put him on the alert (things, ppl, and instructions that aren't part of the required procedure to pick up a package). Anyway, he said he didn't recognize the sender, it wasn't his package, and he left. The guy waiting at the PO (probably a postal inspector/arm) was even trying to make the guy stay verbally (again, odd) and speak to the manager or sign for it or something, but the guy wasn't hearing that $hit and left in a hurry. Nothing came of it, presumably b/c he never signed for and took delivery of the package. He could have been charged if he left a paper trail online presumably-he didn't say anything about that.

    The bad thing about raw powder via mail is when packages get damaged and white powder starts to leak out and...well, you get the idea (is it anthrax? is it cocaine?). I have a lot of relatives that work at the PO BTW. The risk is low, but not non-negligible.

    One of my close PO relatives has seen in person a massive steroid bust of a competitive bodybuilder, and a few street drugs busts (and nearly got in the way once). The steroid bust was domestic-a CA to SC operation. When they searched the dude's house later, he had ~3,000 pre-filled syringes in his walls (WTF) that he was distributing at a local gym (hmm...think somebody talked?). Now he's competing in the Department of Corrections invitational. Regarding the drug-mail busts, I am told that many of the musicians that visit the area where one of my PO relatives lives mail drugs to themselves so they will be there when they get there to perform (coke, weed, etc). Pretty stupid and pretty common for that area at least, but back to the white powder issue...

    Anything involving the PO means federal charges instead of state charges by statute. The state could additionally charge you for other offenses perhaps. Federal courts have close to a 90% conviction rate which is much higher than state courts.

    The 10 versus 100g could possibly help avoid a distribution charge on the whim that you actually get busted. You would still likely have to make a case for non-distribution though b/c they will convolute the math and see how many esterified amps you could make from the raw base powder, etc (maybe slight exaggeration, but they may try to hit you with intent to distribute either way). But in either case, you will be charged with conspiracy to import a controlled substance and conspiracy to distribute or conspiracy to possess a controlled substance and possibly possession of a controlled substance if you get busted after taking delivery of the package. Those conspiracy charges have at least as many teeth as a standard distribution charge, and it probably won't be concurrent sentencing either.

    Most likely your package will arrive undamaged, etc. However, your package could arrive damaged (and suspiciously leaking), or the notice could get put in the wrong person's box.

    I may be giving the raw suppliers too little credit though. Hopefully, they have a more creative way of packing raw powder than the stereotypical "bag". I've never ordered any (was considering it at one point), so I don't know much about that aspect.

    If you do go that route though, I'll be curious to see what the TD base results are like versus esterified IM.


  2. Quote Originally Posted by ThisGuy2 View Post
    Only thing w/ bold is that you have to be able to control your eating, because the appetite onset is purported to be intense. Furthermore, bear in mind that the ester on bold is very long lasting, and that may play a role in cycle length. I don't think I'd run base for 12-14 weeks.

    Personally, I've been considering for some time making a masteron TD at 100mg/mL. You could do a 6 week run with that of 250mg ed for a total of 1750, which would absorb at about 600mg. That's a nice amount of mast, and it don't get much leaner than that! I haven't really found any info from others on it, and I've been meaning to check the MW to see if it's feasible, but I keep forgetting.
    I have a friend who ran EQ (bold undeclyn) solo for FIVE months! He obviously has a ton of money, but that is apparent from his $8,000 suits and $15,000 watch. He said it was a pretty mild cycle in terms of sides (20 weeks...) and the gains were steady and permanent for him.

    He only cycles every few years I think, and he actually had to drop about 20 lbs of LBM over time at one point b/c he got sick of having to eat so much to maintain it (he was like 5'6 or 5'7, 216 lbs; now about 191 and still very stout). It probably wasn't after the bold cycle since you rarely hear ppl complain about a lack of appetite on bold.

    BTW, I am not saying running bold that long is a good idea (or anything for that matter). He is actually very health conscious and not a dummy about these things, but a 20 week cycle...well, ppl have certainly done far worse!

    That masteron TD sounds like an awesome idea. The veins would probably start popping out right after you got done rubbing it in!
    •   
       


  3. Quote Originally Posted by dumbhick3 View Post
    I have a friend who ran EQ (bold undeclyn) solo for FIVE months! He obviously has a ton of money, but that is apparent from his $8,000 suits and $15,000 watch. He said it was a pretty mild cycle in terms of sides (20 weeks...) and the gains were steady and permanent for him.

    He only cycles every few years I think, and he actually had to drop about 20 lbs of LBM over time at one point b/c he got sick of having to eat so much to maintain it (he was like 5'6 or 5'7, 216 lbs; now about 191 and still very stout). It probably wasn't after the bold cycle since you rarely hear ppl complain about a lack of appetite on bold.

    BTW, I am not saying running bold that long is a good idea (or anything for that matter). He is actually very health conscious and not a dummy about these things, but a 20 week cycle...well, ppl have certainly done far worse!

    That masteron TD sounds like an awesome idea. The veins would probably start popping out right after you got done rubbing it in!
    Yeah, but unfortunately the MW of mast is 304...just above the cutoff MW of 300 for effective absorption. I'm thinking of looking into how you knock off the ester to see if it really is that complicated. Also...just making a suspension and pinning it.

  4. Quote Originally Posted by dumbhick3 View Post
    I think a lot of people get away with ordering 10 or 100g packages of raws from overseas, just based on reading AAS forums. But I've read a few threads where things didn't go so smoothly. One guy went to the PO to get his package (raw powder) but lots of environmental ques put him on the alert (things, ppl, and instructions that aren't part of the required procedure to pick up a package). Anyway, he said he didn't recognize the sender, it wasn't his package, and he left. The guy waiting at the PO (probably a postal inspector/arm) was even trying to make the guy stay verbally (again, odd) and speak to the manager or sign for it or something, but the guy wasn't hearing that $hit and left in a hurry. Nothing came of it, presumably b/c he never signed for and took delivery of the package. He could have been charged if he left a paper trail online presumably-he didn't say anything about that.

    The bad thing about raw powder via mail is when packages get damaged and white powder starts to leak out and...well, you get the idea (is it anthrax? is it cocaine?). I have a lot of relatives that work at the PO BTW. The risk is low, but not non-negligible.

    One of my close PO relatives has seen in person a massive steroid bust of a competitive bodybuilder, and a few street drugs busts (and nearly got in the way once). The steroid bust was domestic-a CA to SC operation. When they searched the dude's house later, he had ~3,000 pre-filled syringes in his walls (WTF) that he was distributing at a local gym (hmm...think somebody talked?). Now he's competing in the Department of Corrections invitational. Regarding the drug-mail busts, I am told that many of the musicians that visit the area where one of my PO relatives lives mail drugs to themselves so they will be there when they get there to perform (coke, weed, etc). Pretty stupid and pretty common for that area at least, but back to the white powder issue...

    Anything involving the PO means federal charges instead of state charges by statute. The state could additionally charge you for other offenses perhaps. Federal courts have close to a 90% conviction rate which is much higher than state courts.

    The 10 versus 100g could possibly help avoid a distribution charge on the whim that you actually get busted. You would still likely have to make a case for non-distribution though b/c they will convolute the math and see how many esterified amps you could make from the raw base powder, etc (maybe slight exaggeration, but they may try to hit you with intent to distribute either way). But in either case, you will be charged with conspiracy to import a controlled substance and conspiracy to distribute or conspiracy to possess a controlled substance and possibly possession of a controlled substance if you get busted after taking delivery of the package. Those conspiracy charges have at least as many teeth as a standard distribution charge, and it probably won't be concurrent sentencing either.

    Most likely your package will arrive undamaged, etc. However, your package could arrive damaged (and suspiciously leaking), or the notice could get put in the wrong person's box.

    I may be giving the raw suppliers too little credit though. Hopefully, they have a more creative way of packing raw powder than the stereotypical "bag". I've never ordered any (was considering it at one point), so I don't know much about that aspect.

    If you do go that route though, I'll be curious to see what the TD base results are like versus esterified IM.
    All very good points, and useful insight.

    As to effects, I'm entering week 6 tomorrow, up ~17lb. from the dosing sked I mentioned. VERY lean too...though 100mg ed of var and proviron may have assisted there. Needless to say, I'm happy.

  5. Quote Originally Posted by crowbar46 View Post
    Yeah, I'm pretty sure I know the place you're talking about. Have you used them without problems? I was doing some research and people on a particular board--with a LOT of experience with this company--were saying that they had gotten less effecient in shipping, and some people (especially in the US) were having problems with packages being held up in customs for months.


    Crowbar
    My 1 purchase resulted in no problems. Got my package promptly, undamaged.
    •   
       


  6. i could care less about the gyno right now thats linked to tren(not being rude) i have gyno anyways.(puberty gyno) I plan i getting the surgery but thats besides the point. Has anyone seen any before and after pics with a td tne or tren?

    And i have an older bottle of pene, thats more alcohol based. Think it will work just as well?

  7. knocking off the ester isnt to hard but 304 and 300 would really make that big of a differences? I thought masteron was ester free though?

  8. Quote Originally Posted by maddyfresh1 View Post
    i could care less about the gyno right now thats linked to tren(not being rude) i have gyno anyways.(puberty gyno) I plan i getting the surgery but thats besides the point. Has anyone seen any before and after pics with a td tne or tren?

    And i have an older bottle of pene, thats more alcohol based. Think it will work just as well?
    Not sure. I've personally never used penetrate. It'd be more watery, I assume.

  9. Quote Originally Posted by maddyfresh1 View Post
    knocking off the ester isnt to hard but 304 and 300 would really make that big of a differences? I thought masteron was ester free though?
    Typically you get drostanolone propionate, so you have a prop ester. My understanding is that 300 is the cutoff of MW size to effectively be absorbed. I've yet to find any info on anyone else trying it, so I'm thinking people haven't tried due to the fact you'd need to drop the ester to make it work.

    Got a link to good info on dropping the ester? I'm gonna look into it further.

  10. Quote Originally Posted by ThisGuy2 View Post
    Typically you get drostanolone propionate, so you have a prop ester. My understanding is that 300 is the cutoff of MW size to effectively be absorbed. I've yet to find any info on anyone else trying it, so I'm thinking people haven't tried due to the fact you'd need to drop the ester to make it work.

    Got a link to good info on dropping the ester? I'm gonna look into it further.
    I wouldn't call it a good link, but it seems to imply that de-esterification is simple in a chemistry lab but not so simple at home. I think you might need a catalyst for the reaction to occur, some micron filters, an organic chemistry book, and then you would need to clean up the final product (most likely) to remove any toxic leftovers, probably via recrystallization or something very impractical like that (wildly speculating).

    It's so close to 300 that it seems like a small amount of it in penetrate or similar would be worth a test run. It should be obvious pretty quickly if it is having the desired effect (assuming you can get some of it dissolved into the penetrate solution/matrix).

    http://www.dow.com/liquidseps/prod/sp_esterif.htm

  11. Quote Originally Posted by ThisGuy2 View Post
    Yeah, I just found it. Bummer. I've read there are ways to remove esters, but it's pretty damned complicated and usually not worth the effort, if I recall.
    Quote Originally Posted by ThisGuy2 View Post
    I made a TB TD recently using phlo at 100mg concentration and it works GREAT. You need to grind it down in a ceramic mortar and pestle (don't try to skimp on this...you WILL have tiny chunks left unabsorbed on your skin if you do). Transfer this to a pyrex bowl over warm water (double boiler style) and dissolve. DMSO works WONDERS for this, and 10mL should suffice, without giving you garlic stink. Then incorporate into the penetrate (although my understanding was that phlo works better, which is why I went with that). Then, just to completely eliminate the smell of DMSO, I added 2mL of tea tree oil, and now the stuff actually smells nice.

    Average absorption is estimated at 30% at best, but more like 35% if you use DMSO. I apply 1 and 1/4 mL twice daily for a total of 250mg ed. Times 7 days, that 1750mg, at 35% absorption you're looking at around 600mg weekly.
    Im confused. At first I thought u said you were running a test base transdermal (or thats what i assumed TB TD meant?) and then you say its too hard and not worth the effort?

    enlighten me lol
    Serious Nutrition Solutions Representative
    X-GELS THE Prohormone alternative!
    anabolicminds.com/forum/supplements/246394-arachidonic-acid-help.html

  12. hes talking about knocking the ester off is hard and not worth it.

  13. Quote Originally Posted by maddyfresh1 View Post
    hes talking about knocking the ester off is hard and not worth it.
    so whats he using in his TD?
    Serious Nutrition Solutions Representative
    X-GELS THE Prohormone alternative!
    anabolicminds.com/forum/supplements/246394-arachidonic-acid-help.html

  14. test base...other test have a ester

  15. Quote Originally Posted by crowbar46 View Post
    Yeah, I'm pretty sure I know the place you're talking about. Have you used them without problems? I was doing some research and people on a particular board--with a LOT of experience with this company--were saying that they had gotten less effecient in shipping, and some people (especially in the US) were having problems with packages being held up in customs for months.


    Crowbar
    Why not just go the synovex h route. I did that years ago and its not that difficult. Plus no worries of quality or getting busted. Or at least I've never heard of anybody getting busted for ordering implants.

  16. Quote Originally Posted by Jstrong20 View Post
    Why not just go the synovex h route. I did that years ago and its not that difficult. Plus no worries of quality or getting busted. Or at least I've never heard of anybody getting busted for ordering implants.
    Hold up. We're not talking about knocking the ester off a test. If you have base to begin with, there's no need to knock the ester off. And I don't see why you'd get another for if you have base available, as it is superior to other forms, be they prop, enan or cyp.

    If you knock the ester off those, you'd of course have base...but if you got 10g of prop and knocked off the ester, you wouldn't have the same amount of test as if you got 10g of base.

    In any case, we were actually talking hypothetically about knocking the ester off mast to force it within the constraints for viable absorption for a TD, since you cannot get mast base (or at least not that I'm aware of). Well the idea of having a mast TD is tantalizing, I'd just as soon make a suspension and skip having to furnish a small home lab to get there.

  17. warbird01 was asking about a comment you made earlier in the thread THISGUY2. I was just explaining to him that you you did make a tb td. But you were thinking about trying a different one with a ester but sometimes its not worth it.

  18. Quote Originally Posted by maddyfresh1 View Post
    warbird01 was asking about a comment you made earlier in the thread THISGUY2. I was just explaining to him that you you did make a tb td. But you were thinking about trying a different one with a ester but sometimes its not worth it.
    I know, I was ellaborating.

    And from looking over DH's link, I'm feeling ever more like it's not worth it. I am in NO WAY a chemist, and most of that talk boggles my mind. ...or trouts it.

  19. jstrong20, doesn't Synovex H also contain estrogen? Also, is it Test base? I suppose you could use a SERM along with it but I don't know if that sounds like a good idea.


    Crowbar

  20. Quote Originally Posted by crowbar46 View Post
    jstrong20, doesn't Synovex H also contain estrogen? Also, is it Test base? I suppose you could use a SERM along with it but I don't know if that sounds like a good idea.


    Crowbar
    I don't know that it has estro. It is not test base, but rather prop.

  21. meaning you will have to drop that ester to tnd it.

  22. I'm pretty sure it does contain estrogen; and as we've been discussing, dropping the ester does not really seem feasable.

    Crowbar

  23. Isn't that what the lye is for, cleaving the ester and removing the estrogen?

    Wayback machine, LOL
    Saponificaion of tren acetate ester for transdermal prep *EXPERIMENT*

  24. Quote Originally Posted by Jeff View Post
    Isn't that what the lye is for, cleaving the ester and removing the estrogen?

    Wayback machine, LOL
    Saponificaion of tren acetate ester for transdermal prep *EXPERIMENT*
    I couldn't tell you. I've never used the pellets myself. That link has some interesting info. But the cost of a synovax kit isn't really cheaper. From what I can conclude, advantages of this method would be a) it's all you can get your hands on, or b) you WANT to go through the whole process, which I fully understand some might.

    If anyone decides to play chemist, I'm sure we'd all be interested to hear about the results.

  25. Correct.

  26. IMO the main benefit of DIY is you know the purity.

  27. The penetrate works fine for both test base and bold base. Ive used penetrate for both. Mix doses appropriately... remember 30-35% absorbtion at best!

  28. Yeah, I just found it. Bummer. I've read there are ways to remove esters, but it's pretty damned complicated and usually not worth the effort, if I recall.
    google "base catalyzed ester saponification". very simple reaction, IMO. the only reagent you'll need is sodium hydroxide.

  29. If anyone decides to play chemist, I'm sure we'd all be interested to hear about the results.
    the hydroxide ion acts as a nucleophile and attacks the electrophilic carbonyl carbon on the ester. A tetrahedral intermediate is formed, and then movement of electrons ejects an alkoxide ion and generates a carboxylic acid. the alkoxide ion the abstracts the proton for the carboxylic acid to generate a hydroxyl group.

    that's how this reaction occurs from a mechanistic stand point. the actual procedure is very simple. i said above to google a procedure, but you really don't even need one. Just weight out the powder that you have and convert from grams to moles. This reaction between the ester and hydroxide ion occurs in a 1:1 molar ratio, so add an appropriate volume of the sodium hydroxide based on the molarity of the solution. Toss them together in a flask, swirl the contents of the flask for a few minutes (well, maybe longer, you can look that up) , and you're good to go.

    Also, adding base to this solution deprotonates the aromatic hydroxyl group on the estrogen, making it water soluble

  30. Hey guys. Been out of the scene for a bit but I always get all warm and fuzzy when I see Transdermals getting discussed.

    New forum kinda making my eyes all tweeked out so I didn't read a bunch of stuff in thread. I must be getting O L D.

    If these questions has been answered please forgive me.

    Penetrate works well with Test Base and Tren Base. Just don't expect anything above 50mg/ml final concentration or plan for anything above 30% absorption.

    Masteron works well in TD. As does Boldenone.

    Not tooting my own horn but I did a log on here some time ago which really wound up a fun Transdermal experiment. Lots of trials for best compounds.

    I've done Phlo-jel ultra compounds with a variety of PE's. Wish my body did well with Tren because that seemed to work extremely well. Sadly I'm very susceptible to progesterone related gyno.

    40-day Transdermal Test/Oral Turinabol Cycle
    Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, feed him for life. Lao Tse 6th century BC
  •   

      
     

Similar Forum Threads

  1. how much test base in t-gel for HRT
    By ps24eva in forum Anabolics
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 04-19-2004, 06:35 PM
Log in
Log in