Can someone critique my plan?

[AllTheGainz]

I've started doing a push pull legs plan and it started off good, but now I'm plateauing and I'm thinking I might be over training.

I tried to base each day off a compound lift then work into isolating muscle groups, but I think the volume is just too much.

Monday. Push muscles(Chest shoulders and triceps)

Chest: Bench Press (5x5)
Incline Dumbell Press(3 sets)
Machine incline press (3 sets)
Machine flys (3 sets)
Shoulders: Dumbell Press (3 sets)
Triceps: Pushdowns (3 sets)
Lying Tricep Dumbell Extensions ( 3 sets)

Tuesday. (Legs/Forearms)

Quads: Squats (4 sets)
Leg Press (4 sets)
Leg Extensions (3sets)
Leg Curls Standing (4 sets)
Leg Curls Lying (3 sets)
Calf Raises (5 sets)
Wrist curls curls (5 sets)

Wedesday. Pull muscles. (Back/Biceps)

Back: Deadlifts (5x5)
Wide Grip Pulldowns (3sets)
Barbell Rows (3 sets)
One arm dumbell rows(3 sets)
Bent over lateral raises(3 sets)
Biceps:
Barbell curls (3 sets)
Incline DB Curls(4 sets)
Ez Bar curls (4 sets)
Preacher Curl Machine (4 sets)


Thursday. Push muscles. (Chest shoulders and triceps)

Chest: Incline barbell press (3sets)
Barbell decline press (3 sets)
Dumbbell press (3sets)
Machine decline press (3 sets)
Chest flys cable (3sets)
Shoulders. Military press (3 sets)
Triceps. Dips (3 sets)
Tricep push downs (3 sets)

Friday. (Legs/Forearms)

Barbell Split squats (4 sets)
Squats (4 sets)
Leg press(3 sets)
Leg curls ( 4 sets)
Seated calf raises(5 sets)
Reverse wrist curls(5 sets)

Saturday. Pull muscles. (Back/Biceps)

Back:
Wide Grip Pull-ups (3 sets)
Close Grip Pull Downs (3 sets)
Chin ups(3 sets)
Bent Rows (3sets)
Face Pulls(3 sets)
Biceps:
Hammer curls (3 sets)
Barbell preacher curls( 3 sets)
21s (2sets)

I feel like I'm all over the place with this plan, I've never made a plan like this so I expect it to be god awful or completely off balance but I figured I'd try anyway.

 

[EMPIREMIND]

Why not cut it back to push,pull,legs with a rest day in between each day. Some weeks 3 days a week, some 4. Also aim to progress in your lifts in each session, either more weight or more reps.

 

[AllTheGainz]

Why not cut it back to push,pull,legs with a rest day in between each day. Some weeks 3 days a week, some 4. Also aim to progress in your lifts in each session, either more weight or more reps.

I haven't been in the gym in quite a while because of a shoulder injury so I'm thinking I might have the noob gain effect again since its been so long. Also want to maximize gains on the PH cycle I'm running and honestly the gym is my life lol.

 

[PaulBlack]

Well, just at a first glance, you are squatting on Tues. then going back Wed. and DLing? Working a good majority of the posterior chain and some heavy leg stuff, 2 days in a row.
It might be better to give those exercises a few days between for recovery so you could train them a bit harder or more optimally.

 

[AllTheGainz]

Well, just at a first glance, you are squatting on Tues. then going back Wed. and DLing? Working a good majority of the posterior chain and some heavy leg stuff, 2 days in a row.
It might be better to give those exercises a few days between for recovery so you could train them a bit harder or more optimally.

How would you go about it? I didn't see a way around it doing a push pull legs. Maybe switch Tuesday and Wednesday?

 

[EMPIREMIND]

I haven't been in the gym in quite a while because of a shoulder injury so I'm thinking I might have the noob gain effect again since its been so long. Also want to maximize gains on the PH cycle I'm running and honestly the gym is my life lol.

I definitely get it, but in my experience the best gains will come from a layout like this. On the off days you can be in the gym doing active rest. Search online for some active rest workouts. Not that bad bro. But actual heavy training you can make leaps and bounds doing like I suggested. Especially if your natural bro.

 

[AllTheGainz]

I definitely get it, but in my experience the best gains will come from a layout like this. On the off days you can be in the gym doing active rest. Search online for some active rest workouts. Not that bad bro. But actual heavy training you can make leaps and bounds doing like I suggested. Especially if your natural bro.

I'm not natural anymore haha. Kinda why I wanted to kill the gym eryday

 

[EMPIREMIND]

I'm not natural anymore haha. Kinda why I wanted to kill the gym eryday

Still doesn't really matter. Drugs or no drugs. Rest is needed regardless. Rest nutrition training all equal. If your not progressing in your training the other two need to be addressed

 

[AllTheGainz]

Still doesn't really matter. Drugs or no drugs. Rest is needed regardless. Rest nutrition training all equal. If your not progressing in your training the other two need to be addressed

Very true, so I guess I cut back to 3x a week and let my CNS recover a bit before going back at it, change things up a bit. I was thinking maybe a deload week but I'm not sure if that's going to be enough.

 

[PaulBlack]

If you are wanting to stick with that certain layout, then I would agree with EMPIREMIND and stick in a rest day between, 2 days on 1 off like,
push-pull off, legs-push off, pull-legs off, push-pull off...
More is not always better. Recovery is every bit as important to adapt and grow, to come in stronger the next W/O.

 

[Famine]

I'd suggest 4 days a week: 2 days on, 1 day off, 2 days on, 2 days off. There is a reason 80% of all the workouts I've seen are 4-day splits. I'd also suggest fewer auxiliary movements and more bench, squats, and deads.

 

[love2liftkat]

I have been doing a push/pull split with leg work incorporated to each either push or pull muscles- mon,tues, thurs, & Friday. Basically the main lifts deads, bench, squat, and push press/shoulder press with some accessory work. Otherwise, like it was mentioned separate the days you do deads and squats. It's a little rough back to back when you train hard. Also, I agree that rest and nutrition are a huge part of the picture! You don't just need to train more to make things happen.

 

[AllTheGainz]

Sweet thanks guys and gal! I'll switch to a 4 daw and see how that goes!

 

[Deleted member 238667]

Your plan looks solid and I might even use it. But here's my recommendation. Do Push pull then legs, like you were doing, then rest. But for the first 3 days, do high weight low reps, the next 3 days, do higher reps, lower weight. Make it more of a hybrid strength/hypertrophy routine, and you should break through that plateau.

 

[AllTheGainz]

Your plan looks solid and I might even use it. But here's my recommendation. Do Push pull then legs, like you were doing, then rest. But for the first 3 days, do high weight low reps, the next 3 days, do higher reps, lower weight. Make it more of a hybrid strength/hypertrophy routine, and you should break through that plateau.

It's supposed to be push pull legs, don't know how Tuesday ended up as leg day honestly. But I'm varying it up like that as well just to get through 2 more weeks then I'm switching it up completely. Mon-wends I do 5x5 for my main lifts just to change it up ever so slightly.

 

[Rodja]

What's the actual plan? A list of lifts and sets is not a plan or a routine. Also, you have more volume for biceps than your thighs. Don't be that guy.

 

[AllTheGainz]

What's the actual plan? A list of lifts and sets is not a plan or a routine. Also, you have more volume for biceps than your thighs. Don't be that guy.

What do you mean exactly by the first part? And I can ruin my legs faster then my biceps. For some reason they don't last nearly as long right now and they hurt a hell of a lot more the next day then my biceps ever have.

 

[Rodja]

What do you mean exactly by the first part? And I can ruin my legs faster then my biceps. For some reason they don't last nearly as long right now and they hurt a hell of a lot more the next day then my biceps ever have.

There's no plan for progression and how this phase is. You can't do the same thing repeatedly because there's no stimulus for adaptation.

Your thigh training is almost completely devoid of hamstring work and most should be compound lifts not isolation. Point I was making regarding volume is that the biceps are a very tiny muscle and having similar volume for that and the thighs is not ideal.

 

[AllTheGainz]

There's no plan for progression and how this phase is. You can't do the same thing repeatedly because there's no stimulus for adaptation.

Your thigh training is almost completely devoid of hamstring work and most should be compound lifts not isolation. Point I was making regarding volume is that the biceps are a very tiny muscle and having similar volume for that and the thighs is not ideal.

Now that you mention the hamstrings lacking I see that they are. Not sure how I let that slip though honestly but thanks for catching it.

As for the plan not changing, I typically ran a plan for x amount of weeks or untill I started to plateau. At which point I'd take a few days off then switch to something different like a 5x5 instead of hypertrophy if I'm wrong by doing this then let me know. I just typically switch between a set bodybuilding plan like this and either a 5x5 or % workout. Seems to work recently well but maybe I'm not maximizing results.

 

[Rodja]

Now that you mention the hamstrings lacking I see that they are. Not sure how I let that slip though honestly but thanks for catching it.

As for the plan not changing, I typically ran a plan for x amount of weeks or untill I started to plateau. At which point I'd take a few days off then switch to something different like a 5x5 instead of hypertrophy if I'm wrong by doing this then let me know. I just typically switch between a set bodybuilding plan like this and either a 5x5 or % workout. Seems to work recently well but maybe I'm not maximizing results.

Doing that is being reactive instead of proactive. While you should have some room for adaptability, a plan should have some sort of weekly progression and overload with periods of fatigue management.

 

[AllTheGainz]

Doing that is being reactive instead of proactive. While you should have some room for adaptability, a plan should have some sort of weekly progression and overload with periods of fatigue management.

So in other words plan ahead for deload weeks and plateaus before they actually hit.

 

[Rodja]

So in other words plan ahead for deload weeks and plateaus before they actually hit.

After you hit a systemically planned overload, yes.

 

[AllTheGainz]

After you hit a systemically planned overload, yes.

Guess I have a lot more to learn then.

 

[Deleted member 238667]

Guess I have a lot more to learn then.

I'm right there with you.

 

[love2liftkat]

We all have been there! What Rodja is talking about makes the difference between someone working out or someone training. I would suggest looking for written programs that will have the strategy written out for you!

 

[AllTheGainz]

I'm finally getting into the nitty gritty of my personal trainer Manuel, and now I see why the plan doesn't work. Doesn't change anything up, just progressive overload where as undulating periodization keeps the CNS from adapting. I haven't gotten far enough in to tell if I need to have every exercise on a undulating periodization plan or just the main compound lifts.

 

[hansisworld]

I'm not natural anymore haha. Kinda why I wanted to kill the gym eryday

But you're not growing in the gym... You're growing out if it. Lee Haney said it best, "stimulate, don't annihilate." I would go with a three-day split like the guy above mentioned and go balls to the wall in the gym. Move heavy ass weight. And then recover like you're life depends on it. Massage, stretching, light cardio, sauna, the options for recovery are endless. But recovering right is one of the most important and under appreciated parts of this game.

 

[AllTheGainz]

But you're not growing in the gym... You're growing out if it. Lee Haney said it best, "stimulate, don't annihilate." I would go with a three-day split like the guy above mentioned and go balls to the wall in the gym. Move heavy ass weight. And then recover like you're life depends on it. Massage, stretching, light cardio, sauna, the options for recovery are endless. But recovering right is one of the most important and under appreciated parts of this game.

Think what I'm going to do is actually base it off percentages. That should change things up rather nicely. Have some lightweight days and some heavy days before I max test then adjust.

 

[Rodja]

All periodization is based off of progressive overload. It's going about it is where it differs.

 

[hansisworld]

Think what I'm going to do is actually base it off percentages. That should change things up rather nicely. Have some lightweight days and some heavy days before I max test then adjust.

Understood. Keep in mind that everybody is different. What works you might smoke me and vice versa. Either way, I think you could do it for a period of time if you keep your rest, active recovery and nutrition on point. Bill Kazmaier followed a similar training plan and well, I think his results speak for themself. Just keep in mind that you probably won't be able to continue on such a plan indefinitely, and you probably shouldn't anyway. Back when I was a young whipper snapper, I undertook Arnold's old six-day split for about 6 months. Man, I saw some impressive results. But I was also sleeping 8 hours a night, eating very well, and juicing. So I saw amazing gains, but after six months, everything came to a screeching halt. So I took a rest week, and then hopped back into a 3-day split... and the gain train continued! The point is, if your nutrition, rest and active recovery are on point, you can and will be able to do this. Just watch out for signs that you're pushing it too hard, i.e. low libido, injuries, etc. Good luck man and keep us posted.

 

[AllTheGainz]

Oh yeah no I won't be on this plan for terribly long. Maybe a month or two more if I incorporate the parcentages then I'll switch over to like a 5x5 or a 5/3/1.

 

[Rodja]

Oh yeah no I won't be on this plan for terribly long. Maybe a month or two more if I incorporate the parcentages then I'll switch over to like a 5x5 or a 5/3/1.

Bouncing from program to program every few months isn't going to give an accurate picture of if or if not the program works for you. You have to be patient and give at least 6 months to something before you can really know what's going on and whether it works for you.

 

[AllTheGainz]

Bouncing from program to program every few months isn't going to give an accurate picture of if or if not the program works for you. You have to be patient and give at least 6 months to something before you can really know what's going on and whether it works for you.

That's very true, I do however know this plan works pretty well ( I used a similar version of it a while back) but I know the 5x5 plan elicits massive gains not only in strength but also muscle mass. Same with a percentage workout but I have fully mastered those yet.

I just thought I'd try my hand at making a plan or two

 

[Rodja]

That's very true, I do however know this plan works pretty well ( I used a similar version of it a while back) but I know the 5x5 plan elicits massive gains not only in strength but also muscle mass. Same with a percentage workout but I have fully mastered those yet.

I just thought I'd try my hand at making a plan or two

Percentage of what, though? The problem with percentages is getting an accurate 1RM. Most people horribly overestimate their 1RM and use a number that they hit once 6 months ago, which is no longer an accurate weight.

A plan has a long term vision and when I say that, I mean the entire year or even more. Accessories change as weaknesses change and that's something that only you can decide. While front squats are a great lift, I don't get dick out of them when it comes to carryover to my squat, which is why I removed them from my training.

 

[AllTheGainz]

Percentage of what, though? The problem with percentages is getting an accurate 1RM. Most people horribly overestimate their 1RM and use a number that they hit once 6 months ago, which is no longer an accurate weight.

A plan has a long term vision and when I say that, I mean the entire year or even more. Accessories change as weaknesses change and that's something that only you can decide. While front squats are a great lift, I don't get dick out of them when it comes to carryover to my squat, which is why I removed them from my training.

I have a guy I can use to spot me so getting my 1RM is easy. Then I just base it off of that for 3 weeks then retest and evaluate. Where I'm at. I used it in high school for 9 months and gained a lot but I only really used it for increasing my bench press.

 

[Rodja]

I have a guy I can use to spot me so getting my 1RM is easy. Then I just base it off of that for 3 weeks then retest and evaluate. Where I'm at. I used it in high school for 9 months and gained a lot but I only really used it for increasing my bench press.

There's no time to build strength or recover if you're testing your 1RM every three weeks.

 

[AllTheGainz]

There's no time to build strength or recover if you're testing your 1RM every three weeks.

That's odd then. I did it in hs 3 weeks on, next week was light then we maxed either that Thursday or Friday... What would you say is best then?

 

[Rodja]

That's odd then. I did it in hs 3 weeks on, next week was light then we maxed either that Thursday or Friday... What would you say is best then?

You did it for one lift and it's also the least taxing of them. You have to build up to a 1RM. With your approach, you're not building strength by constantly testing it. You have to sacrifice volume for intensity and it's volume that elicits adaptation and strength gains. I max out about once every six months. Rep PRs, both individual and cumulative, are just as important to gaining strength.

 

[AllTheGainz]

You did it for one lift and it's also the least taxing of them. You have to build up to a 1RM. With your approach, you're not building strength by constantly testing it. You have to sacrifice volume for intensity and it's volume that elicits adaptation and strength gains. I max out about once every six months. Rep PRs, both individual and cumulative, are just as important to gaining strength.

Okay so in other words I have to max less, a lot less. **** this is difficult but I'll figure it all out. Would it be wise to have periods of high rep low weight and periods of low rep high weight over percentages?

 

[Rodja]

Okay so in other words I have to max less, a lot less. **** this is difficult but I'll figure it all out. Would it be wise to have periods of high rep low weight and periods of low rep high weight over percentages?

I'm not a fan of that approach. There's often technical failure far before muscular and all you're doing is establishing bad motor patterns.

 

[AllTheGainz]

I'm not a fan of that approach. There's often technical failure far before muscular and all you're doing is establishing bad motor patterns.

So then what's the best approach? I thought it would be percentages because you could change up weight and volume relatively easily but I was wrong.

 

[Rodja]

So then what's the best approach? I thought it would be percentages because you could change up weight and volume relatively easily but I was wrong.

Percentage of what? You don't have true 1RMs because you haven't built up and then peaked.

 

[AllTheGainz]

Percentage of what? You don't have true 1RMs because you haven't built up and then peaked.

It would be a percentage of my current 1RM, pretty much all you could base it off of since as you said I haven't peaked.

 

[Rodja]

It would be a percentage of my current 1RM, pretty much all you could base it off of since as you said I haven't peaked.

It's not an accurate number at that point and throws off the program.

 

[AllTheGainz]

It's not an accurate number at that point and throws off the program.

Yeah I see what your saying, in x amount of weeks or months that 85% might now be my 65% so when I should be training heavy I'm now only training moderately heavy. So what's the best way to go about this then?

 

[Rodja]

Yeah I see what your saying, in x amount of weeks or months that 85% might now be my 65% so when I should be training heavy I'm now only training moderately heavy. So what's the best way to go about this then?

Best is subjective, but start with something that is established and proven.

 

[AllTheGainz]

Best is subjective, but start with something that is established and proven.

That's true. Guess I still have a lot to learn haha. Oh well we all start somewhere