REALLY slow reps

[Toff]

Have any of you experimented with this?
I got an injury and investigated training methods that were safer ,this one came along on the interweb and I thoughtId give it a go.

Wow, its intense, I mean after a few reps each extra rep feels like the last of a normal rep speed, and you finish not being able to lift a 10lb dumbell haha

As its so intense, could be onto something here, im exhausted!

 

[Anabolikz]

Slow training could be good if you're injured but slower rep speed doesn't mean increased hypertrophy. BFR training is more backed by science and in my personal opinion the most effective way to train with light weights as far as hypertrophy is concerned

 

[HIT4ME]

There are studies suggesting that fast reps carry over to sports applications better - most sports require explosive power and quick application of force. Training your nervous system in a slow manner doesn't help if that is your goal.

I train with a relatively slow cadence... If say 4 second contraction, 2 second HD and 4 second negative, but in reality my speed is probably more along the lines of 3/1.5/3.

Slow training really increases the time under tension. I believe it also eliminates ballistic forces on your joints - despite lifting fairly heavy weights (for me) I don't have ANY joint issues at all.

It also causes you to get more time under the eccentric phase, which I am convinced builds strength and despite what everyone would like to believe, more strength equals more hypertrophy at least to a large degree. Unfortunately, it can also put more stress on your CNS and the muscle itself (negatives) so recovery is needed.

 

[rhoadx]

I have seen studies saying that a slow positive phase of a lift will actually make you weaker if done often. A slow negative is good though. But if you need to use lighter weights occlusion training is the way to go, it's really painful when done correctly, but it does work

 

[JudoJosh]

Rep tempo is largely an inconsequential factor here. Going slower won't deliver much benefit and just make the workout take longer

 

[Snow3y]

I do disagree. I've personally had better conditioning through slower tempo, than light weight training.

OP, it depends on your tempo setup. I've recently applied explosive concentric and much slower eccentric movements, and have found the results far better in terms of strength gains (which in turn builds muscle)

 

[Toff]

im seeing muscle mass increase that ive not experienced before, soreness all over the muscle, and it absolutelty WRECKS me, the intensity is through the roof.. im sweating and my heart rate is up and intensity is where Arnold say its 'at'.

I dont need speed, ever, its all about the size for me.

Ive heard and read books on similar around static holds where you do 300% more than your rep max and hold it still... the limitation becomes the equipement!

A real world test was the other weekend, I slowly but powerfully moved a HUGE concrete roof we knocked to the floor, the power was there in my body, tension was the feeling as per my intense 10 second rep, the block just slowly kept moving my way as i pulled it - no fast moves, no broken muscles or bones, just slow, controlled, power delivery

 

[EMPIREMIND]

I find tempo can dramatically change the effectiveness of a set. I play around with it here and there. But for instance ill do a set and throw some slow negative and postives in there at the end or randomly change the pace in my set (with shrugs ill do ten regular speed reps and then throw a couple fast ones in, then do some slow ones). Not sure about differences scientifically, but i find these changes recruit more from me and leave me much more sore. Past the soreness idk lol

 

[JudoJosh]

Not sure about differences scientifically

I am. Despite perceptions, the difference is minimal, if that

 

[EMPIREMIND]

I am. Despite perceptions, the difference is minimal, if that

Fair enough.

 

[Anabolikz]

I thought this thread was more about being able to train with lighter weights. If you are asking which is more effective for muscle growth faster vs slower tempos then your answer is faster tempos have more scientific backing for hypertrophy results. The theory's behind this are...
1. Since training volume is the most important variable for growth you can get more volume with faster tempos. Ex. If you take 5 seconds on each rep of a bench press you might be able to hit 300 for 5 reps. That same person might be able to hit sets of 8 with 300 on the bench if he speeds up his tempo to a 3 second rep. Because this individual has accumulated 900 more pounds of volume per set. This ends up being a considerable amount of volume over the course of a workout, a week and even a year.. You can't discount the most important training variable (volume) for a less important one (rep tempo) and think that your results will be just as good.
2. Slower eccentrics have always been recommended because more damage occurs on the eccentric portion of the rep.. While this is true we now have studies supporting that faster eccentrics cause more muscular damage.. And it's probably because the faster the weight is moving the harder that muscle will have to work to overcome that speed and decelerate the negative portion of that rep.
3 If you do a set with half the tempo you will still get about the same TUT as someone doing faster tempo reps if both sets are done to or near failure. This means you would equate for TUT but one variable will be higher...volume. Which is the single most important factor as far as hypertrophy is concerned. Also more tension/weight could also be used from faster tempos.
Layne Norton has a video log on this titled "Biolayne video log 33 -TIme Under Tension". He says everything I said and more. This video log was certainly eye opening for me the first time I watched it.. No BS, right to the point, studies and results to back it up and tried it out for myself and I can confirm from personal experience training in the manner that he talks about in this video is far superior.

 

[JudoJosh]

I thought this thread was more about being able to train with lighter weights. If you are asking which is more effective for muscle growth faster vs slower tempos then your answer is faster tempos have more scientific backing for hypertrophy results.

No they don't

Once more, rep tempo is largely inconsequential. Meaning, slower is not better than faster AND that faster isn't better than slower.

Here is a meta since my statement keeps getting ignored here

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25601394

 

[HIT4ME]

No they don't

Once more, rep tempo is largely inconsequential. Meaning, slower is not better than faster AND that faster isn't better than slower.

Here is a meta since my statement keeps getting ignored here

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25601394

I'm not ignoring it. I think this is sound advice and the truth in many instances in working out. People often miss details in a training routine and don't follow the plan. On the other hand, in this case, people often attribute too much to a small detail when they should be looking at the big picture.

This reminds me of the idea that one training method is for strength and another is for hypertrophy. There may be small differences, but they aren't like people want to believe.

I train slow because I believe it has less impact on my joints, but really it isn't about being slow, it is about being in control of the weight and avoiding momentum..

 

[Anabolikz]

No they don't

Once more, rep tempo is largely inconsequential. Meaning, slower is not better than faster AND that faster isn't better than slower.

Here is a meta since my statement keeps getting ignored here

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25601394

I wasn't ignoring what you said, I don't doubt the differences are minimal. But minimal differences could possibly add up to make a noticeable difference. I was mainly talking to the folks who love their slow reps like I used to.


This is really what supports what I was trying to say about the ability to increase volume because of faster repetitions and thus greater activation and blood lactate response.
http://journals.lww.com/nsca-jscr/Abstract/publishahead/VARIATIONS_IN_REPETITION_DURATION_AND_REPETITION.96863.aspx

These are about muscle damage being greater with faster eccentrics/high lifting velocity.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22158146

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15640387

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16874584

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/10750850_The_effects_of_eccentric_and_concentric_training_at_different_velocities_on_muscle_hypertrophy

 

[EMPIREMIND]

I think the variable that is being overlooked here is form. When speed is introduced form can suffer. People tend to shorten thier reps and not fully contract thier muscles. Scientifically this might be true that tempo means nothing, but in application speed can absolutely count. Slow, fast it makes differences. Also in regards to minimal differences i agree that a little can make a difference i mean look at this forum. Supplement companies and reps push all types of novel ingredient products that have minimal effect on the overall result, but that minimal effect is sometimes whats needed.