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Cutting workout advice needed

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    Cutting workout advice needed


    Stats 75 kgs, 15-16% body fat, running a calorie deficit of 400 500 and 166 gm P, 221 gm C and 57 gm fat

    Goals To cut down below 10% body fat in 10-11 weeks

    Cardio is performed at moderate intensity which is defined as when it sweats but the breathing is still under control (no panting, etc.), however, the intensity still looks moderately hard

    Monday Chest , Back and Shoulders (heavy sets supersets), Abdominals, Moderate Intensity Cardio for 30 mins
    5 sets and reps are 8, 6, 5, 5, 3 to 4. No rest b/w supersets and 1 min rest between sets
    1. Flat Bench Press superset w/ Chest Flyes
    2. T bar rows superset w/ High Bench Rows
    3. Clean and Press superset w/ Lateral Raises
    4. Cable crunches 5 sets of 10-12 reps
    5. Half-situps 5 sets of 8 reps
    6. Leg raises 5 sets of 6-8 reps
    7. Concemetric Double Up 5 sets of 5-6 reps
    8. Stairmaster 15 mins
    9. Elliptical 10 mins
    10. Treadmill 5 mins

    Tuesday Biceps, Triceps and Forearms (tri-sets), Moderate Intensity Cardio for 45 mins
    5 sets and reps are 5 on each set. No rest within a tri-set and 45 sec rest between tri-sets
    1. Body Drag , Supine Bench Dumbbell curl , Elbows in barbell curl
    2. Elbows in pushdowns, Elbows out triceps pressdowns and Dumbbell kick back
    3. Forearm barbell curl (2 sets of 10 reps),
    4. Reverse Body Drag (4 sets of three motions low to middle, middle to the neck and low to the neck)
    5. Zottman Curl 4 sets of 12 reps
    6. Stairmaster 20 mins
    7. Elliptical 15 mins
    8. Treadmill 10 mins

    Wednesday Legs and Abdominals, Moderate Intensity Cardio for 30 mins4 sets and reps are 10, 8, 6, 15. 45 sec rest between sets
    1. Back Squats
    2. 45 degree Leg Press
    3. Deadlift
    4. Leg Extension
    5. Leg Curl
    6. Calves (Standing) - 5 sets of 10 reps
    7. Calves (Seated) - 5 sets of 10 reps
    8. Cable crunches 5 sets of 10-12 reps
    9. Half-situps 5 sets of 8 reps
    10. Leg raises 5 sets of 6-8 reps
    11. Concemetric Double Up 5 sets of 5-6 reps
    12. Boxing w/ gloves on a punching bag 30 mins (jabs, cross punches, etc.) with some rest intervals in between


    Thursday Chest , Back and Shoulders, Moderate Intensity Cardio for 30 mins
    4 sets and reps are 10, 8, 6, 15. 45 sec rest between sets
    1. Incline Bench Dumbbell Press
    2. Body Weight Dips ( 5 sets of 8 reps)
    3. Decline Bench Dumbbell Flyes
    4. Isometric machine Rowing
    5. Seated Rowing
    6. HyperExtension (5 sets of 10 reps)
    7. Front and Back Press
    8. Arnold Press
    9. Bent over Raise
    10. Boxing w/ gloves on a punching bag 30 mins (jabs, cross punches, etc.) with some rest intervals in between

    Friday Biceps, Triceps and Forearms (tri-sets), Abdominals, Moderate Intensity Cardio for 30 mins
    5 sets and reps are 5 on each set. No rest within a tri-set and 45 sec rest between tri-sets
    1. Body Drag , Elbows in barbell curl, Preacher Curl (using 2 burns at the higher end on each rep and 6 burns on the last rep)
    2. Skull Crusher, Close Grip Bench Press and Barbell pressing to the chest and then behind the head in a continuous motion
    3. Forearm barbell curl (2 sets of 10 reps),
    4. Reverse Body Drag (4 sets of three motions low to middle, middle to the neck and low to the neck)
    5. Zottman Curl 4 sets of 12 reps
    6. Cable crunches 5 sets of 10-12 reps
    7. Half-situps 5 sets of 8 reps
    8. Leg raises 5 sets of 6-8 reps
    9. Concemetric Double Up 5 sets of 5-6 reps
    10. Boxing w/ gloves on a punching bag 30 mins (jabs, cross punches, etc.) with some rest intervals in between

    Saturday Legs
    One Down the rack dropset for each exercise and 1 min rest between each exercise
    1. Back Squats
    2. 45 degree Leg Press
    3. Deadlift
    4. Leg Extension
    5. Leg Curl
    6. Calves (Standing) - 5 sets of 10 reps
    7. Calves (Seated) - 5 sets of 10 reps

    Does this look too much of a work? Can I expect to overtrain or lose muscle w/ this amount of work?

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    Just off hand, I would divide up the work to be more balanced and efficient. (what about a proven/written routine?)
    For instance, you are squatting and deadlifting on the same day (some of the largest movements), but devote another day to say just small muscle groups arms/abs!?

    As far as too much!? (for me the answer is yes,) but I love to keep stuff simple and do not want to have to work in gym 6 days per, as I can put much greater effort and focus into just a handful of compound exercises. More is not better and complicated does not trump simple hard work.

    *Eating and controlling diet is going to do the most for losing BF and, if you ask me, you are better off and will keep and build much more mass working the biggest structures with compound exercises since they are even a form of cardio respiratory work.
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    ^You won't get any better than that
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    6% bf in 8 weeks? You're not going to accomplish that without AAS or a serious cutting agent.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mystere3 View Post
    6% bf in 8 weeks? You're not going to accomplish that without AAS or a serious cutting agent.
    I said 10-11 weeks.. So how much do you think I can get cut ? max 4% points?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sean1332 View Post
    ^You won't get any better than that
    Oh! May I ask why do you say so?
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulBlack View Post
    Just off hand, I would divide up the work to be more balanced and efficient. (what about a proven/written routine?)
    For instance, you are squatting and deadlifting on the same day (some of the largest movements), but devote another day to say just small muscle groups arms/abs!?

    As far as too much!? (for me the answer is yes,) but I love to keep stuff simple and do not want to have to work in gym 6 days per, as I can put much greater effort and focus into just a handful of compound exercises. More is not better and complicated does not trump simple hard work.

    *Eating and controlling diet is going to do the most for losing BF and, if you ask me, you are better off and will keep and build much more mass working the biggest structures with compound exercises since they are even a form of cardio respiratory work.
    Hey, I saw a lot of 'proven' ones as well. Madcow5*5, etc. Basically, I used the concepts of lifting heavy to maintain whatever muscle mass I have, clubbing the big movements together such as squats, rows, deadlifts, etc. and adding in cardio at moderate intensity if need be. But I understand where you're coming from. I will try this and if it looks a lot of work then I will change to something whole body workout 3 times a week with 12-15 reps and 45 mins cardio on the other 3 days.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mystere3 View Post
    6% bf in 8 weeks? You're not going to accomplish that without AAS or a serious cutting agent.
    And by cutting agent, you would mean - Clen/ Ephedrine/ albuterol?
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    Quote Originally Posted by RockyRambo View Post
    Oh! May I ask why do you say so?
    Because I agree with his training philosophy and the advice he gave you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sean1332 View Post
    Because I agree with his training philosophy and the advice he gave you.
    You mean PaulBlack's advice? Oh yes, that's the reason I posted this here (to get guided). So, I would change it to a more simpler routine concentrating only on the compound movements. Should I keep the rep range 12-15 and minimum rest (45 -60secs) between the sets?

    P.S. I seriously believe that cutting has got to do more with the diet and training. AAS and cutting agents help tremendously but if I can't get cut through only diet and training then there's no point in jumping to AAS, etc. either. How much do you think can I lose (in terms of bf%) preserving the muscle mass in 10-11 weeks?
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    Let's say you lose 50% fat and 50% muscle (which might be optimistic) and you lose 1 lb a week with 500 calorie deficit from maintainance.

    Assuming you're really at 15% bf you'll be at 140 lb lbm. If you lose 5 lb fat and 5 lb muscle you'll be at 135/155 which is 13% bf, or about a 2% bf loss.
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    Clen, t3, ECA (which won't do much but you should absolutely be taking), dnp, pgf2a, etc. AAS are the most effective of these though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RockyRambo View Post
    Hey, I saw a lot of 'proven' ones as well. Madcow5*5, etc. Basically, I used the concepts of lifting heavy to maintain whatever muscle mass I have, clubbing the big movements together such as squats, rows, deadlifts, etc. and adding in cardio at moderate intensity if need be. But I understand where you're coming from. I will try this and if it looks a lot of work then I will change to something whole body workout 3 times a week with 12-15 reps and 45 mins cardio on the other 3 days.
    Well, you do not have to do 3x per wk full body per se. There are quite a few routines that are probably more efficient than when trainees try to program their own W/O's and don't get the most from the training, diet, or there body's response to it.
    Even a 4 day upper/lower type split and again concentrating more on the big full body compound moves thru each W/O, will make more inroad in the entire system, muscles and metabolic wise, than say a day specifically dedicated to the small muscles in say the arms. See what I am saying? You get more overall systemic work, along with loading the spine and major torso structures that cause more hormonal responses.
    You could do 8-10 reps 3-5 sets, as I am not necessarily sold on higher reps for definition, lower for bulk. Again a lot of that is food intake. Swim, bike, run, hike, basketball, tennis, etc. can all be active or cardio work too.
    2 cents...
    What is your reason for the 10-12 week window for the loss?
    If you lose it and cut slower and naturally, (the faster one loses weight, the more it can be fluids etc. from lean tissue, so slower, you can keep more lean mass) you will most likely have a better chance of keeping it, staying healthier and making all the good eating and exercise habits stick longer term. Just sayin'
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mystere3 View Post
    Let's say you lose 50% fat and 50% muscle (which might be optimistic) and you lose 1 lb a week with 500 calorie deficit from maintainance.

    Assuming you're really at 15% bf you'll be at 140 lb lbm. If you lose 5 lb fat and 5 lb muscle you'll be at 135/155 which is 13% bf, or about a 2% bf loss.
    Ok, this might sound kiddish, but I did read Arnold's encylopedia and it said that the muscle to fat ratio of weight loss is 60-40, however, if one aims to lose 1-2lbs per week, then this comes mostly from fat. However, that's not true practically, you mean? As in , if I aim to lose 10lbs , I am more than likely to lose 5lbs of muscle as well?
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulBlack View Post
    Well, you do not have to do 3x per wk full body per se. There are quite a few routines that are probably more efficient than when trainees try to program their own W/O's and don't get the most from the training, diet, or there body's response to it.
    Even a 4 day upper/lower type split and again concentrating more on the big full body compound moves thru each W/O, will make more inroad in the entire system, muscles and metabolic wise, than say a day specifically dedicated to the small muscles in say the arms. See what I am saying? You get more overall systemic work, along with loading the spine and major torso structures that cause more hormonal responses.
    You could do 8-10 reps 3-5 sets, as I am not necessarily sold on higher reps for definition, lower for bulk. Again a lot of that is food intake. Swim, bike, run, hike, basketball, tennis, etc. can all be active or cardio work too.
    2 cents...
    What is your reason for the 10-12 week window for the loss?
    If you lose it and cut slower and naturally, (the faster one loses weight, the more it can be fluids etc. from lean tissue, so slower, you can keep more lean mass) you will most likely have a better chance of keeping it, staying healthier and making all the good eating and exercise habits stick longer term. Just sayin'
    Thanks Paul, so I should aim for a 20 week window or so for this? I just want to have some goals (hence the window) in place, so that I can track progress and chase it with determination. Post that, I plan on lean bulk and then throw in an AAS (Test/Dbol) once I am below 10%.
    Ok, one more thing - I have used tanita impedance measurement however it is highly skewed in my opinion. In the 'athletic' mode it shows a 13% fat and in the 'standard' mode it shows 18%. I have read their definition of 'atheltic' which implies as the one who exercises 'intensely' for 10 hrs a week. Another gym using another machine (I think it is the one that you need to hold the handles to measure it) gave me a reading of 14%. So, if I just go by the mirror, how can I guesstimate my fat %age? Is it like only at 10% or below, the mid-section is revealed? (abs come out, etc.)
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    Quote Originally Posted by RockyRambo View Post
    Ok, this might sound kiddish, but I did read Arnold's encylopedia and it said that the muscle to fat ratio of weight loss is 60-40, however, if one aims to lose 1-2lbs per week, then this comes mostly from fat. However, that's not true practically, you mean? As in , if I aim to lose 10lbs , I am more than likely to lose 5lbs of muscle as well?
    Yes, unless you're using AAS or a similar anabolic, given your bf%.

    If you aim for very slow weight loss, perhaps you can increase the ratio but the lower your bf the harder it is to lose fat. If you had 30% bf you could provably lose mostly fat.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mystere3 View Post
    Yes, unless you're using AAS or a similar anabolic, given your bf%.

    If you aim for very slow weight loss, perhaps you can increase the ratio but the lower your bf the harder it is to lose fat. If you had 30% bf you could provably lose mostly fat.
    So you mean it is very tough or next to impossible to get down to 8%-9% from 15% and preserving more than 70% muscle w/o AAS aid? (AAS preserving the mass and cutting agent aiding the cut) even if the window to lose fat is stretched to , let's say, 24 weeks (6 months)? hmm, I think, the proof of the pudding lies in eating. I will monitor my progress for some weeks, if I am losing muscle, then I will stretch the window.
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    There are very few natty ppl at 8% bf with any mass. I think anyone natty at 200 lb and 8% is either a genetic freak or a liar. At your weight 8% natty is possible but you'd lose a ton of muscle to get there and would probably be ~140-150.

    Put it this way, if you lost 0 muscle, say with AAS, and maintained your weight, you'd weigh 151 at 8%. Since that's really not possible, you'd have to lose more weight to get there, so assuming you could lose the 60/40 ratio you mentioned earlier (which I think is unlikely) you'd be 142 at 8%. You'd look tiny at that size if you're taller than 5'4".
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    Quote Originally Posted by RockyRambo View Post
    Thanks Paul, so I should aim for a 20 week window or so for this? I just want to have some goals (hence the window) in place, so that I can track progress and chase it with determination. Post that, I plan on lean bulk and then throw in an AAS (Test/Dbol) once I am below 10%.
    Ok, one more thing - I have used tanita impedance measurement however it is highly skewed in my opinion. In the 'athletic' mode it shows a 13% fat and in the 'standard' mode it shows 18%. I have read their definition of 'atheltic' which implies as the one who exercises 'intensely' for 10 hrs a week. Another gym using another machine (I think it is the one that you need to hold the handles to measure it) gave me a reading of 14%. So, if I just go by the mirror, how can I guesstimate my fat %age? Is it like only at 10% or below, the mid-section is revealed? (abs come out, etc.)
    First off, goals are important by all means, but set small ones that can be achieved over weeks, that build up to big ones. ie: Losing #1-#2 a week and perhaps increase the weight on your squats or deads or leg presses by say #5. That is a short term more easily achieved goal. In time (months) those little goals will add up to your big one(s), along with keeping you motivated. Setting goals too high and for too short of periods, will have most trainees missing them, then getting discouraged and losing interest or worse, looking for short term fixes that compromise long term health. Keep them very manageable and reasonable as you build.

    As far as the other stuff!? I have no idea and personally find some of that stuff as a distraction to really getting in and training hard.
    I don't think Arnold et al used all that stuff for measuring progress, as they were judged by how they looked on stage and not %'s of what they were carrying. If you lose BF you are going to get more cut. To me it is that simple. No, the mirror cannot give you exact %'s, but the mirror or the "appearance of the body" is what is judged.
    Personally, (am I am not a BB'er as I am more interested in strength training, so maybe my opinion doesn't count) I put more of my focus on the basic gym and food work.
  

  
 

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