Help with training

[Lord_Of_Iron]

I will train Push/Pull/Legs style 3x week. I found a workout but i need for some exercises substitution because i dont have some of machines in my gym.


Push day:

Exercise	Sets	Reps	Tempo/TUT	Rest
A: Incline Bench press	6-7	8-10	4030	90
B: Decline Hammer press (machine)*	4	8-12	3020	75
C1: Cable Crossovers	3-4	10-12	2020	0
C2: Front Plate raise	3-4	12-15	2010	60
D1: Side lateral raises	3-4	12-15	2010	0
D2: Incline hammer Press (machine)*	3-4	12-15	2010	0
D3: Side lateral raises	3-4	12-15	20x0	75
E: Revers triceps cable pushdown	3-4	10-12	2010	45

Legs day:

Exercise	Sets	Reps	Tempo/Tut	rest
A1: Bulgarian squats	6-7	8-10	4020	90
A2: Stiff leg deadlift	6-7	8-10	4020	90
B: Front Squats	4	12-15	3020	75
C: Calves	4	20-25
D:Abs	4-6	12-15
E: Abs	4-6	12-45

Pull day:

Exercises	Sets	Reps	Tempo/Tut	rest
A: Iso-lateral front lat pulldown	7	7-9	4130	100
B: Lat pulldowns	4	10-12	3020	90
C: Bent over fly (for rear delt)	4	12-15	3120	60
D: Upright rows (on cross machine)	3-4	12-15	2010	45
E: Incline dumbell curls	3-4	8-12	2010	45
F: Barbell curls	3-4	12-15	2010	45

The only two exercises i can't do Incline hammer Press (machine)* and Decline Hammer press (machine)* and i need substitution for those exercises. Thanks advance.

 

[Matthersby]

No b.s.
I could do 7 sets of incline and call it a day and get great gains from that alone with enough intensity.

This is the eternal argument: low volume vs. high volume training.
I choose low volume. And I've tried both.
You've got 16 sets for delts. Unless you are genetically gifted, it's overkill.

 

[tjbruno]

decline/incline dumbbell's

/thread.

 

[Lord_Of_Iron]

No b.s.
I could do 7 sets of incline and call it a day and get great gains from that alone with enough intensity.

This is the eternal argument: low volume vs. high volume training.
I choose low volume. And I've tried both.
You've got 16 sets for delts. Unless you are genetically gifted, it's overkill.

You want to say this is not good training program or what?

decline/incline dumbbell's

/thread.

Thanks man, i will make this substitutions.

 

[Matthersby]

You want to say this is not good training program or what?

How did you get that from my post?
Its fine if its working. I don't post up my routine for critique because its working really well. I think that many sets is too much. Your thread's titled 'help w training' so my help is lower volume. If you respond too high volume, disregard my advice.

 

[Lord_Of_Iron]

How did you get that from my post?
Its fine if its working. I don't post up my routine for critique because its working really well. I think that many sets is too much. Your thread's titled 'help w training' so my help is lower volume. If you respond too high volume, disregard my advice.

Look maybe i didn't get the meaning of your first post, but english is not my first(mother) language and i didn't get full meaning of your post. Maybe the title of the thread better be "Help w training and exercises" because the first reason i open this thread was about substitution for 2 exercises but I appreciate your opinion for this workout. I will try i and will tell the results. Thanks alot

 

[ZiR RED]

22 sets involving shoulder flexion/horizontal adduction
15 sets involving shoulder extension/horrizontal abduction

Volume aside, your program is poorly balanced. This will lead to aesthetically an overdevelopment of the front delts compared to the back and possibly pecs. Posturally you will end up with protracted shoulders and a very high risk for supraspinatus or biceps tendonitis and injury. Performance wise I can only assume you have not considered any periodization or progression, which will ultimately lead to accommodation and stagnation (i.e.: plateau) after 4-6 weeks.

 

[Lord_Of_Iron]

22 sets involving shoulder flexion/horizontal adduction
15 sets involving shoulder extension/horrizontal abduction

Volume aside, your program is poorly balanced. This will lead to aesthetically an overdevelopment of the front delts compared to the back and possibly pecs. Posturally you will end up with protracted shoulders and a very high risk for supraspinatus or biceps tendonitis and injury. Performance wise I can only assume you have not considered any periodization or progression, which will ultimately lead to accommodation and stagnation (i.e.: plateau) after 4-6 weeks.

Look i didn't make this program. This program is created by older and expirianced lifters. And they said that this programs is really good for shoulders (main) and other parts. I don't think that my back will not develop. Ok maybe not like shoulders but i think that whole back is worked out. With iso lateral machine we already work the trapezius and upper lats and with front lat pulldowns we more work for lower part of the back and for wide form. I don't know maybe i will start with full body i dont know.

 

[Matthersby]

Look i didn't make this program. This program is created by older and expirianced lifters. And they said that this programs is really good for shoulders (main) and other parts. I don't think that my back will not develop. Ok maybe not like shoulders but i think that whole back is worked out. With iso lateral machine we already work the trapezius and upper lats and with front lat pulldowns we more work for lower part of the back and for wide form. I don't know maybe i will start with full body i dont know.

I'm going to go out on a limb and tell you that ZirRed can better advise you and is more qualified than the lifters that laid this program out for you.

 

[PaulBlack]

22 sets involving shoulder flexion/horizontal adduction
15 sets involving shoulder extension/horrizontal abductions


A1: Bulgarian squats 6-7 8-10 4020 90
A2: Stiff leg deadlift 6-7 8-10 4020 90
B: Front Squats 4 12-15 3020 75

Not to mention over 16-18 sets/ 180-200 total reps for squatting and deads in one day!?!?, is overkill for that day IMO, then no more leg work for the rest of the week.
Also, that much squatting /bending volume for a single W/O, would not really allow the best or most efficient loads to be used, to gain muscular mass and strength/power, if that is what you are after or depending on goals???

 

[ZiR RED]

Look i didn't make this program. This program is created by older and expirianced lifters. And they said that this programs is really good for shoulders (main) and other parts. I don't think that my back will not develop. Ok maybe not like shoulders but i think that whole back is worked out. With iso lateral machine we already work the trapezius and upper lats and with front lat pulldowns we more work for lower part of the back and for wide form. I don't know maybe i will start with full body i dont know.

There is nothing wrong with a push/pull/legs split. It's an easy template to program from and follow. The problems arise when you throw the entire kitchen sink into the program without concern for balance and without foresight. Poke around the boards and you will see a number of people who describe issues developing their pecs and/or have shoulder problems due to scapula protraction and constant upward rotation (i.e.: forward shoulders) due to poor programming and this over focusing on the anterior muscles throughout their lifting career.

Keep it simple: for every
chest press you need a row
over head press a pull up
chest fly a facepull
forward shoulder raise a rear delt exercise

Next, stick to the basics.

Push 1: Focus on overhead press and assistance muscles
Pull 1: Focus on pull ups and lower traps
Leg 1: Squat and lunges
Push 2: Bench press + assistance muscles
Pull 2: Bent over row + upper traps
Leg 2: Deadlift and hamstrings

 

[hvactech]

There is nothing wrong with a push/pull/legs split. It's an easy template to program from and follow. The problems arise when you throw the entire kitchen sink into the program without concern for balance and without foresight. Poke around the boards and you will see a number of people who describe issues developing their pecs and/or have shoulder problems due to scapula protraction and constant upward rotation (i.e.: forward shoulders) due to poor programming and this over focusing on the anterior muscles throughout their lifting career.

Keep it simple: for every
chest press you need a row
over head press a pull up
chest fly a facepull
forward shoulder raise a rear delt exercise

Next, stick to the basics.

Push 1: Focus on overhead press and assistance muscles
Pull 1: Focus on pull ups and lower traps
Leg 1: Squat and lunges
Push 2: Bench press + assistance muscles
Pull 2: Bent over row + upper traps
Leg 2: Deadlift and hamstrings

Would do you like for lower trap development? My uppers are huge, lower not so much...

 

[ZiR RED]

Would do you like for lower trap development? My uppers are huge, lower not so much...

Scapula dips, wall slides, bent over scaptions, reverse high incline db over head press, face pulls from an overhead position, band or cable scapula depressions. The lower traps are not as large as the uppers, so for overall mass in that area you would want to focus on the rhomboids, lats, and mid traps as well.

This is a good image, though too big to embed.
http://muscle.iuhu.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/back-muscles-bodybuilder-body.jpg

 

[chedapalooza]

I could sure use a zir red designed program right now. Banging my head against the wall trying to figure out my next moves and progressions after 3 months of 531 destroyed my joints

 

[Matthersby]

I could sure use a zir red designed program right now. Banging my head against the wall trying to figure out my next moves and progressions after 3 months of 531 destroyed my joints

That guy has changed multiple aspects of my routine. His advice is some of the best you can get when it comes to building a well-rounded, functional program and injury resistant physique.

 

[chedapalooza]

That guy has changed multiple aspects of my routine. His advice is some of the best you can get when it comes to building a well-rounded, functional program and injury resistant physique.

Definitely. He helped me fix my monster legs and chest to a more proportionate size for my body. Now I need to bring up shoulders and arms. They WILL. NOT. GROW.

 

[Matthersby]

Definitely. He helped me fix my monster legs and chest to a more proportionate size for my body. Now I need to bring up shoulders and arms. They WILL. NOT. GROW.

I used to think upright rows all the way to eye level were A-OK! Apparently they aren't. Same with side laterals to the sky.

 

[chedapalooza]

Lol just saw a massage therapist who informed me my spine is out of alignment and my rotator cuff is weak and compromised.... Winning. Fck.

 

[EatMoar]

5/3/1 messed up your joints? I've been running 5/3/1 for almost a year and I'm fine lol what'd you do? Jerk all the weight ?

 

[chedapalooza]

5/3/1 messed up your joints? I've been running 5/3/1 for almost a year and I'm fine lol what'd you do? Jerk all the weight ?

No lol and my numbers werent that high either. I just have a lot of existing joint issues from playing football through college, and a pre existing rotator injury which is self explanatory for the multitude of secondary injuries that can come when you have a bum rotator, mostly from having to compensate or use slightly tweaked form. Shoulda seen it coming, but wanted to try and run w the big boys and move the big weights! Guess ill be a little guy forever. Where's the salad bar???

 

[NattyForLife]

Zir Red, i have a question; are exercises that make a muscle reach active insufficiency (Ex. A db kickback with the shoulder in hyperextion) better than exercises that doesnt make a muscle reach active insufficiency (Ex. Overhead tri extension)? Just wondering for training purposes because you can get an insane contraction from exercises that make a muscle reach Active insufficiency than one that you cant. Figured if anyone knew this, it would be you. Looking through your threads and post i learn alot of information. Im currently in school to enter in the field of physical therapy. Thanks man!

 

[ZiR RED]

Zir Red, i have a question; are exercises that make a muscle reach active insufficiency (Ex. A db kickback with the shoulder in hyperextion) better than exercises that doesnt make a muscle reach active insufficiency (Ex. Overhead tri extension)? Just wondering for training purposes because you can get an insane contraction from exercises that make a muscle reach Active insufficiency than one that you cant. Figured if anyone knew this, it would be you. Looking through your threads and post i learn alot of information. Im currently in school to enter in the field of physical therapy. Thanks man!

That's actually a really good question that I cannot answer with any certainty one way or the other. I would imagine a combination of both would be best. In the kickbacks I think you'll get some activation of the long head to keep the humerus parallel to the floor.

 

[NattyForLife]

That's actually a really good question that I cannot answer with any certainty one way or the other. I would imagine a combination of both would be best. In the kickbacks I think you'll get some activation of the long head to keep the humerus parallel to the floor.

Thanks dude! Im gonna look online and see if anything is posted about that.

 

[ZiR RED]

Thanks dude! Im gonna look online and see if anything is posted about that.

Fill me in if you see anything.

 

[ExMuscleInfo]

Too many sets may cause some muscle eating itself.
Do less sets of more weight