Hows this looking ...

[EatMoar]

Okie guys so time to switch up the old routine. Im that person that likes to log everything, switch up my workout every 4-7 weeks and see what new things I can do. This is what I came up with here, and let me know where to add things and what to take out. My main goal: build muscle mass , and keep lean (more diet and cardio oriented though).

Everything will be done 8-12 reps , 4 sets, 1 warm up set and 3 working sets.

Chest/Triceps

Incline DB Bench
Flat Barbell Bench
Hammer Strength Decline
Hammer Strength Incline
Cable Flys

**This seems like it would be over kill but im not sure. I really want to add decline in but would have no idea what to take out to make decline work for me in this routine**

Skullcrusher/ SS with CB Bench
Tricep push downs
Tricep overhead extensions

Back/Biceps

DB Rows
Wide Grip Pull ups
Snatch Grip Dead Lifts
Close grip lat pull downs
Medium/neutral grip low rows

**the focus here was on upper back and widening my back as seen in my other thread , this is what I decided to go with. Im keeping the lat pull downs close grip to still build mass on my lats. The pull ups and low rows would widen my lats. And the DB rows are just simply awesome **

Standing EZ Bar Curl
Standing Concentration Curl
EZ Bar Preacher Curl

Shoulders/Traps

DB Shoulder Press
90 Degree bent elbow lateral raise with DBs (there is most likley a shorter term for this that i dont know)
Front Lateral Raise
Upright Row
Arnold Press (****ingggggg love these )
Barbell Shoulder Shrug (5-6 sets of this, my traps never want to grow )

Legs

Squat
Romanian Deadlifts
Leg curl (hamstring)
Standing Calf Raises
Hack Squat
**Possible Leg PRess for a burn set ** May be over working ** Let me know!

Okie guys this is it, let me know the good/bad/ugly/ and the sexy. thanks

 

[quik_tongue]

This is pretty much what I do except I find adding arms to the end of a work out too much, so I add arms and calves on its own day.
Chest: Do you need the incline hammer machine? You are hitting the chest with 20 sets. Maybe put the incline hammer last, see how you feel?
Or instead add some explosive push ups as a finisher? They have helped me abit.

My biceps are terrible, but why no straight bar curls? And ever try spider curls? I just put those into my routine....crazy intensity from those.

Shrugs: I just asked a friend of mine 2 days ago what he did for his massive traps. His response

"#1 behind the back barbell shrugs with straps, heavy weight (>315), 90s rest, 3-4 sets, squeeze at top
I feel shrugs need to be done with heavy weights to grow and db won't get u there. Neither will bb front shrugs (personal opinion).

#2 is rack pulls (bar at shin level).
5x5 with 3 min rest. Same rationale, exercise puts emphasis on upper back & heavy weight will allow for growth.

#3 is db shrugs.
I chose this over snatches b/c I figured ur looking to add mass to ur upper back. Also, back in the day, I never did true olympic lifts and my traps grew large."

I feel adding high pulls is a great way to get the traps to grow too.

Legs: I squat, leg press, RDL, hammy curl then if Im feeling good burn out on hack squat. I dont think it is too much though. Again, I see how Im feeling that day and add sets accordingly. Also, certain exercises, usually with dumbbells, I like adding in rest pause or drop sets on the last set of my exercise. You can always do that to get a little more out....

 

[EatMoar]

This is pretty much what I do except I find adding arms to the end of a work out too much, so I add arms and calves on its own day.
Chest: Do you need the incline hammer machine? You are hitting the chest with 20 sets. Maybe put the incline hammer last, see how you feel?
Or instead add some explosive push ups as a finisher? They have helped me abit.

My biceps are terrible, but why no straight bar curls? And ever try spider curls? I just put those into my routine....crazy intensity from those.

Shrugs: I just asked a friend of mine 2 days ago what he did for his massive traps. His response

"#1 behind the back barbell shrugs with straps, heavy weight (>315), 90s rest, 3-4 sets, squeeze at top
I feel shrugs need to be done with heavy weights to grow and db won't get u there. Neither will bb front shrugs (personal opinion).

#2 is rack pulls (bar at shin level).
5x5 with 3 min rest. Same rationale, exercise puts emphasis on upper back & heavy weight will allow for growth.

#3 is db shrugs.
I chose this over snatches b/c I figured ur looking to add mass to ur upper back. Also, back in the day, I never did true olympic lifts and my traps grew large."

I feel adding high pulls is a great way to get the traps to grow too.

Legs: I squat, leg press, RDL, hammy curl then if Im feeling good burn out on hack squat. I dont think it is too much though. Again, I see how Im feeling that day and add sets accordingly. Also, certain exercises, usually with dumbbells, I like adding in rest pause or drop sets on the last set of my exercise. You can always do that to get a little more out....

I actually like the idea of arms / calves . I'm gonna incorporate that for sure well there's a mini straight bar at my gym I use , I just call it an EZ bar. Behind the back shrugs I do, do I'm gonna add them in. I have to day snatch grip dead lifts are awesome they killed my upper back. I'll check out those spider curls thanks man

 

[asooneyeonig]

Everything will be done 8-12 reps , 4 sets, 1 warm up set and 3 working sets.

Chest/Triceps

Incline DB Bench
Flat Barbell Bench
Hammer Strength Decline
Hammer Strength Incline
Cable Flys

**This seems like it would be over kill but im not sure. I really want to add decline in but would have no idea what to take out to make decline work for me in this routine**

Skullcrusher/ SS with CB Bench
Tricep push downs
Tricep overhead extensions

ok so 25 working sets for chest, 20 sets using triceps as an accessory, 15 using triceps as a main muscle, and 15 sets using shoulders as an accessory.



Back/Biceps

DB Rows
Wide Grip Pull ups
Snatch Grip Dead Lifts
Close grip lat pull downs
Medium/neutral grip low rows

**the focus here was on upper back and widening my back as seen in my other thread , this is what I decided to go with. Im keeping the lat pull downs close grip to still build mass on my lats. The pull ups and low rows would widen my lats. And the DB rows are just simply awesome **

Standing EZ Bar Curl
Standing Concentration Curl
EZ Bar Preacher Curl

25 sets for lats, 5 sets for traps (mainly), 15 sets for biceps as the main muscle and 20 sets with them as an accessory muscle


Shoulders/Traps

DB Shoulder Press
90 Degree bent elbow lateral raise with DBs (there is most likley a shorter term for this that i dont know)
Front Lateral Raise
Upright Row
Arnold Press (****ingggggg love these )
Barbell Shoulder Shrug (5-6 sets of this, my traps never want to grow )

i would drop the front raises and the upright rows so i wont even count them.

15 sets for shoulders, 5-6 sets for traps, and 10 sets with triceps as an accessory muscle.


Legs

Squat
Romanian Deadlifts
Leg curl (hamstring)
Standing Calf Raises
Hack Squat
**Possible Leg PRess for a burn set ** May be over working ** Let me know!

Okie guys this is it, let me know the good/bad/ugly/ and the sexy. thanks

i would drop the leg curls so i wont even count them.

quads you have 10 sets with a possible burn set, hamstrings you have 10 sets, calfs you have 5 sets.


now, the lower body makes up half the muscle and you are doing well over 100 sets for the upper body and 25 for the lower. there is one HUGE problem right there and i didnt even count the exercises that people should not do. so double the number of lower body stuff and cut the upper body in half. unless you are so large and strong in the lower body and tiny and weak in the upper body that you need that much of a difference to make up for the imbalance.

and where are the exercises like facepulls, abs, low back work, etc?

 

[EatMoar]

Abs are weighted every other day I just don't log them. I forgot to add face pulls and dead lifts for lower back ....

 

[ITW]

Everything will be done 8-12 reps , 4 sets, 1 warm up set and 3 working sets.

Chest/Triceps

Incline DB Bench
Flat Barbell Bench
Hammer Strength Decline
Hammer Strength Incline
Cable Flys

**This seems like it would be over kill but im not sure. I really want to add decline in but would have no idea what to take out to make decline work for me in this routine**

Skullcrusher/ SS with CB Bench
Tricep push downs
Tricep overhead extensions

ok so 25 working sets for chest, 20 sets using triceps as an accessory, 15 using triceps as a main muscle, and 15 sets using shoulders as an accessory.

Back/Biceps

DB Rows
Wide Grip Pull ups
Snatch Grip Dead Lifts
Close grip lat pull downs
Medium/neutral grip low rows

**the focus here was on upper back and widening my back as seen in my other thread , this is what I decided to go with. Im keeping the lat pull downs close grip to still build mass on my lats. The pull ups and low rows would widen my lats. And the DB rows are just simply awesome **

Standing EZ Bar Curl
Standing Concentration Curl
EZ Bar Preacher Curl

25 sets for lats, 5 sets for traps (mainly), 15 sets for biceps as the main muscle and 20 sets with them as an accessory muscle

Shoulders/Traps

DB Shoulder Press
90 Degree bent elbow lateral raise with DBs (there is most likley a shorter term for this that i dont know)
Front Lateral Raise
Upright Row
Arnold Press (****ingggggg love these )
Barbell Shoulder Shrug (5-6 sets of this, my traps never want to grow )

i would drop the front raises and the upright rows so i wont even count them.

15 sets for shoulders, 5-6 sets for traps, and 10 sets with triceps as an accessory muscle.

Legs

Squat
Romanian Deadlifts
Leg curl (hamstring)
Standing Calf Raises
Hack Squat
**Possible Leg PRess for a burn set ** May be over working ** Let me know!

Okie guys this is it, let me know the good/bad/ugly/ and the sexy. thanks

i would drop the leg curls so i wont even count them.

quads you have 10 sets with a possible burn set, hamstrings you have 10 sets, calfs you have 5 sets.

now, the lower body makes up half the muscle and you are doing well over 100 sets for the upper body and 25 for the lower. there is one HUGE problem right there and i didnt even count the exercises that people should not do. so double the number of lower body stuff and cut the upper body in half. unless you are so large and strong in the lower body and tiny and weak in the upper body that you need that much of a difference to make up for the imbalance.

and where are the exercises like facepulls, abs, low back work, etc?

Not that I don't agree with the legs portion of your argument because I love me some lower body work but everyone is different/has different goals. From a BB standpoint, perhaps his legs grow much easier and are ahead of the rest of his body so they don't need the extra work. AND you can't really compare # of sets to # of sets in my opinion. A hard working set of squats is far more taxing than a working set of say lateral raises or cable flys....again all opinion over here

 

[EatMoar]

Not that I don't agree with the legs portion of your argument because I love me some lower body work but everyone is different/has different goals. From a BB standpoint, perhaps his legs grow much easier and are ahead of the rest of his body so they don't need the extra work. AND you can't really compare # of sets to # of sets in my opinion. A hard working set of squats is far more taxing than a working set of say lateral raises or cable flys....again all opinion over here

I agree 100% with your argument. Legs are taxed a lot.more than like your arms. Squatting or leg pressing heavy weight vs curling heavy weight. Obviously squats will be more taxing.

 

[leprechaun1]

I agree 100% with your argument. Legs are taxed a lot.more than like your arms. Squatting or leg pressing heavy weight vs curling heavy weight. Obviously squats will be more taxing.

More taxing and more efficient. You're focusing too much on upper body and this is coming from someone who has gone down that road. Listen to asooneyeonig he's spot on. Otherwise, you're just spinning your wheels and wasting time.

 

[EatMoar]

More taxing and more efficient. You're focusing too much on upper body and this is coming from someone who has gone down that road. Listen to asooneyeonig he's spot on. Otherwise, you're just spinning your wheels and wasting time.

Alright so should I split my quads /calves and hammys/dead lifts for sesperate days so I can do more?

 

[leprechaun1]

I, personally, like either a 3 day a week all body workout or a lower/upper split.

1. Whole body 3X per week (M W F)
2. Lower/Upper Split 4X per week (M-lower, T-upper, Th-Lower, Fri-Upper)

 

[asooneyeonig]

zir red, a phd in the exercise field, like the upper lower split with 4 days a week. i think with education and experience it will trump what most of us would say. oh, and i have seen him do that sort of response on total sets of upper body vs lower body as well. so there must be something to it.

 

[asooneyeonig]

Not that I don't agree with the legs portion of your argument because I love me some lower body work but everyone is different/has different goals. From a BB standpoint, perhaps his legs grow much easier and are ahead of the rest of his body so they don't need the extra work. AND you can't really compare # of sets to # of sets in my opinion. A hard working set of squats is far more taxing than a working set of say lateral raises or cable flys....again all opinion over here

that is true, goals are different. i look at things from a perspective of strength with the side effect of looking good and/or getting big. i also look at the viewpoint if injury prevention. but in this case i did not look at that. for example, the ratio of pressing and pushing, inward rotation and outward rotation.

 

[asooneyeonig]

Alright so should I split my quads /calves and hammys/dead lifts for sesperate days so I can do more?

you could. or do a squat day and a deadlift day. or a squat/deadlift day and a front squat/unilateral leg day. i find it much easier to think of movements instead of muscles. you can much more easily get a better balanced workout.

also, to keep with your goals and the rep ranges and sets you mentioned, i have seen zir red recommend a cycle of 4-6 weeks of low reps/heavy weights to get stronger and then 4-6 weeks of high reps for mass. rinse and repeat.

 

[EatMoar]

I have tried that upper/lower split but never grew out of it. When I started splitting my body parts is when I saw the growth.

 

[asooneyeonig]

then how about this:

squats:
quads
unilateral work
abz
facepulls

horizontal upper:
bench
row
triceps
biceps

deadlifts:
hamstrings
glutes
low back
abz
facepulls

vertical upper:
overhead stuff
pullup/chinup
shoulders
triceps


my point here is to think movements instead of body parts. by thinking body parts it makes it very hard to place compound movements which should make up 80% of your workout.

it is also my opinion that if you cannot hit a muscle twice a week, or for that matter 3 times or once a week and still make gains whether it be size and or mass then you dont understand how to design a program and adjust all the variables properly. i would highly recommend reading up on many programs. and not just the latest bicep blaster from flex magazine. but published workouts in journals and books. over time you should start to see a pattern, the same pattern in all the great workouts. those patterns are there for a reason, they work.

 

[NYiron]

One HUGE problem is you completely miss horizontal extension and have 5 horizontal flexion exercises. This is a problem for posture and WILL lead to some variation of non-contact injury. I suggest at bare minimum at 1:1 ration HF:HE to keep your shoulders healthy. Also, I must completely agree with the point raised on the imbalance in work load upper to lower body. Another thing to consider, is the across the board set and rep range. I would advise looking at the exercises differently for example BP compared Flies 3 working sets of 8-12 on each is cutting your self very short of incorporating all mechanisms of hypertrophy. Keep the single joint exercises in the 8-12 range but consider loading up a bit more on your compounds and doing sets and reps more similar to 5x5, 3x5, 10x3, 3x6-8, you get the drift. Also, your only doing one warm-up set and jumping right into your working sets, is that correct? If so i would consider when beginning your first exercise throwing in a few more sets before jumping into the working sets. Last but not least, I would get rid of front raises, up right rows and shrugs, leg curls teeter on the edge but for bodybuilding purposes in my own experience the risk underlined in the biomechanics can be secondary as long as they are kept light and done for TUT. Just a caveat to ozzie's statement, about movement, you can look at your program by muscles it just needs to be balanced in joint action. It essentially, is two ways of looking at the same thing.

 

[Rodja]

I have tried that upper/lower split but never grew out of it. When I started splitting my body parts is when I saw the growth.

You must have set up your training and/or nutrition incorrectly. As with all templates, you need to have some form of overload and progression and many negate this when it comes to their training.

n=1, but I have gotten much greater gains in training planes than splitting parts. Splits become too much about building up fatigue resistance than actually focusing on truly overloading the system.

 

[EatMoar]

One HUGE problem is you completely miss horizontal extension and have 5 horizontal flexion exercises. This is a problem for posture and WILL lead to some variation of non-contact injury. I suggest at bare minimum at 1:1 ration HF:HE to keep your shoulders healthy. Also, I must completely agree with the point raised on the imbalance in work load upper to lower body. Another thing to consider, is the across the board set and rep range. I would advise looking at the exercises differently for example BP compared Flies 3 working sets of 8-12 on each is cutting your self very short of incorporating all mechanisms of hypertrophy. Keep the single joint exercises in the 8-12 range but consider loading up a bit more on your compounds and doing sets and reps more similar to 5x5, 3x5, 10x3, 3x6-8, you get the drift. Also, your only doing one warm-up set and jumping right into your working sets, is that correct? If so i would consider when beginning your first exercise throwing in a few more sets before jumping into the working sets. Last but not least, I would get rid of front raises, up right rows and shrugs, leg curls teeter on the edge but for bodybuilding purposes in my own experience the risk underlined in the biomechanics can be secondary as long as they are kept light and done for TUT. Just a caveat to ozzie's statement, about movement, you can look at your program by muscles it just needs to be balanced in joint action. It essentially, is two ways of looking at the same thing.

Mkay thanks. I actually agree with the 5x5 for the compound exercises. Thats why for most of my compounds i do 5x5 now. For iso movement those are more of 10-12 reps. Also dropping upright rows seems like a good idea. I cant drop shrugs ... i like them too much hehe, but seriously how do you build your traps without shrugs ?!

 

[EatMoar]

Okie i reamade my whole routine using 5x5 sets for compounds and fixing that shoulder thingyyyy you said. Move equality in my shoulders now. Why is it you need to work your lower body to make gains in your upper body? Legit quesiton , ive always wanted to know the answer to it

 

[asooneyeonig]

but seriously how do you build your traps without shrugs ?!

facepulls to burn out and snatch grip deads and cleans and their variations.

 

[EatMoar]

facepulls to burn out and snatch grip deads and cleans and their variations.

Didn't know face pulls or snatch grip deads did that for traps. Thanks man! I actually just got back from the gym and that 5x5 bench press had my chest begging me to stood! I love it. You feel it too. I went higher on isos like 9-11 reps (odd number I know) but it feels like I could squeeze better. Loving it