Cardio while bulking

[dillianc]

Hey guys,

Just wondering when you are in a bulk stage, do You do cardio? If so, what kind, how often and how long?

 

[Reds91]

I do. I usually do about 10 mins. pre workout. Usually just go for a jog.

 

[smatters]

Ridding Fat vs. Bulking

Hey there,

Here's a quote I read today. Interesting enough it might help you with some idea, however, there may be others on here who might disagree. I am neither agreeing nor disagreeing as i am not a legitimate professional who can answer assuredly. In any case, here's the quote:

First of all, it is practically impossible to build muscle mass and get rid of the fat the same time. When you build your muscle mass, you inevitably get a little of extra fat, otherwise you would not have enough food or recovery time for muscle growth. When you exercise to lose your fat, your diet and exercises prevent muscle growth. Bodybuilders build muscle (and some fat during their off-season, and rip their bodies during their on-season.

To lose fat, you need some sort of a calorie reduced healthy diet and a lot of aerobic exercise.

There are 2 types of exercise - aerobic and anaerobic. Anaerobic exercise is a very intensive exercise, that you can do only for a short time. It uses oxygen faster than your body can replenish. This is the type of exercise that is used in weight training. Another example - fast sprinting.

To burn your fat, you need aerobic exercise - prolonged, low or moderate intensity work, like 30 minutes of jogging. You need oxygen to burn your fat. Doing 20 reps of bench press is not an aerobic exercise, it is still anaerobic, but a pretty inefficient one for muscle building because of low intensity.

What you need is 30-60 (or more) minutes of aerobic activity, like jogging, or steps, or aerobic classes, or swimming. The more often you do this, the faster you lose your weight. You can also do anaerobic exercises (weights), but preferably on separate days. They will not burn your fat, but they will help to keep your metabolism rate up.

Take vitamins and drink at least 8 glasses of water every day. 30 minutes before your workout, drink a cup of coffee, or strong tea, or take a weight-loss pill that speeds up your metabolism, and eat some carbohydrates, for example half of a bagel. Fat burning requires some easy energy to start the process. Do not eat at least 3 hours before going to bed.​

 

[Jiigzz]

Hey there,

Here's a quote I read today. Interesting enough it might help you with some idea, however, there may be others on here who might disagree. I am neither agreeing nor disagreeing as i am not a legitimate professional who can answer assuredly. In any case, here's the quote:

First of all, it is practically impossible to build muscle mass and get rid of the fat the same time. When you build your muscle mass, you inevitably get a little of extra fat, otherwise you would not have enough food or recovery time for muscle growth. When you exercise to lose your fat, your diet and exercises prevent muscle growth. Bodybuilders build muscle (and some fat during their off-season, and rip their bodies during their on-season.

To lose fat, you need some sort of a calorie reduced healthy diet and a lot of aerobic exercise.

There are 2 types of exercise - aerobic and anaerobic. Anaerobic exercise is a very intensive exercise, that you can do only for a short time. It uses oxygen faster than your body can replenish. This is the type of exercise that is used in weight training. Another example - fast sprinting.

To burn your fat, you need aerobic exercise - prolonged, low or moderate intensity work, like 30 minutes of jogging. You need oxygen to burn your fat. Doing 20 reps of bench press is not an aerobic exercise, it is still anaerobic, but a pretty inefficient one for muscle building because of low intensity.

What you need is 30-60 (or more) minutes of aerobic activity, like jogging, or steps, or aerobic classes, or swimming. The more often you do this, the faster you lose your weight. You can also do anaerobic exercises (weights), but preferably on separate days. They will not burn your fat, but they will help to keep your metabolism rate up.

Take vitamins and drink at least 8 glasses of water every day. 30 minutes before your workout, drink a cup of coffee, or strong tea, or take a weight-loss pill that speeds up your metabolism, and eat some carbohydrates, for example half of a bagel. Fat burning requires some easy energy to start the process. Do not eat at least 3 hours before going to bed.​

Your right, I dont agree with some of the stuff here. The science behind it is flawed and while the protocols will work for fat loss, it seems to disregard other forms of exercise as a means of fat loss. The first bolded point is true, but it is not the end all be all.
The second, there are two anaerobic systems, anaerobic PCr and glycolytic. The first uses phosphocreatine as its primary source of enery. The second uses stored glycogen for fuel. Both operate in the absense of oxygen, i.e. oxygen cannot be used for cellular metabolism and recreating ATP until intensity drops. Its not that you dont breath during the exercise though.

HIIT places huge stress on the anaerobic glycolytic (actually, this depends depending on intensity but normally) and is the most EFFECTIVE way to lose fat. While aerobic exercises uses a higher proportion of fat:carbohydrate. HIIT burns a high volume of fat and increases cellular metabolism afterwards. (a good idea is to use a product that enhances lipolysis for this reason to burn off extra fat during this time).

Lifting can be an effective weight loss mehanism, especially if high intensity. And 8 glasses of water a day is a myth. Its best to gauge how much you need over a day and drink that haha. Varies incredible amoung individuals.

 

[PROness]

This thread is blasphemy!

 

[Movin_weight]

Cardio won't impair muscle gain as long as your eating enough to compensate the extra calories your burning. Keeping your cardiovascular endurance up will allow your body to be more effective at burning fat for energy, and is only going to help you stay lean while bulking. Just time the cardio accordingly so your not burning through your glycogen stores before a lifting session.

 

[Movin_weight]

Your right, I dont agree with some of the stuff here. The science behind it is flawed and while the protocols will work for fat loss, it seems to disregard other forms of exercise as a means of fat loss. The first bolded point is true, but it is not the end all be all.
The second, there are two anaerobic systems, anaerobic PCr and glycolytic. The first uses phosphocreatine as its primary source of enery. The second uses stored glycogen for fuel. Both operate in the absense of oxygen, i.e. oxygen cannot be used for cellular metabolism and recreating ATP until intensity drops. Its not that you dont breath during the exercise though.

HIIT places huge stress on the anaerobic glycolytic (actually, this depends depending on intensity but normally) and is the most EFFECTIVE way to lose fat. While aerobic exercises uses a higher proportion of fat:carbohydrate. HIIT burns a high volume of fat and increases cellular metabolism afterwards. (a good idea is to use a product that enhances lipolysis for this reason to burn off extra fat during this time).

Lifting can be an effective weight loss mehanism, especially if high intensity. And 8 glasses of water a day is a myth. Its best to gauge how much you need over a day and drink that haha. Varies incredible amoung individuals.

You make valid points here. The key thing to remember is you don't need to burn fat for energy during your cardio session to lose fat over-all. HIIT is so effective because it causes a high rate of caloric expenditure during the session, mostly from glucose, and then the body utilizes fat for energy throughout the rest of the day at rest. Overall calorie expenditure is still going to ultimately determine whether your losing fat or not.

A decrease in bodyfat% that occurs from weight training does not necessarily represent a decrease in fat mass. By simply increasing muscle mass and maintaining fat mass, you subsequently decrease bodyfat%

 

[smatters]

Cardio won't impair muscle gain as long as your eating enough to compensate the extra calories your burning. Keeping your cardiovascular endurance up will allow your body to be more effective at burning fat for energy, and is only going to help you stay lean while bulking. Just time the cardio accordingly so your not burning through your glycogen stores before a lifting session.

Hi there. Could you explain a bit about how glycogen stores work for me and for the others who might not fully understand it. Thanks

 

[Jiigzz]

Hi there. Could you explain a bit about how glycogen stores work for me and for the others who might not fully understand it. Thanks

Glycogen is essentially stored glucose in either the liver, blood or muscles. Liver and blood glycogen is used to fuel the brain and muscles, while muscle glycogen can only fuel the muscles. When MG stores drop, the brain and liver 'fight' for the remainder of the stored glyocgen, hence why gatorade and other sport drinks have entered the market. These drinks contain (usually) high G.I carbs which trigger a fast insulin response, which pushes glucose into the muscle cells to avoid using more liver and blood glycogen.

Etc. Etc.

 

[Movin_weight]

Glycogen is simply your muscles carbohydrate stores, and what it breaks down for energy when you workout. During high intensity exercise such as weightlifting, your body uses these sugar stores to convert into ATP (energy) to perform the work. If you have ever worked out without eating for a long period of time and you noticed your muscles fatigued very quickly, or you couldn't perform the normal amount of sets/reps you typically do, then it's possible your glycogen stores were low.

So when we perform an exercise session, whether it be cardio or weightlifting, we deplete our muscles of glycogen and then have to eat in order to replenish. It takes time to replenish glycogen in your muslces (several hours) so if you perform a long cardio session, and don't eat... or if you don't give your body enough time after you eat to replenish the glycogen, then your performance may suffer.

This is of course a very brief explanation, because bioenergetics (how the body produces energy) is actually an extremely complicated topic.

 

[Movin_weight]

Your correct, the liver does store glycogen, but it can also be used for muscle function. The liver also can actually produce glucose from lactate and amino acids in order to sustain blood glucose levels.

 

[Jiigzz]

Your correct, the liver does store glycogen, but it can also be used for muscle function. The liver also can actually produce glucose from lactate and amino acids in order to sustain blood glucose levels.

Thats what i said

 

[Movin_weight]

My bad, you did lol...

 

[ZiR RED]

This is a good thread.

If your major goal is to build muscle while keeping your conditioning and body composition, then you need to make your cardio as efficient as possible.

Long steady state sessions at very low intensities won't do anything for conditioning or your CV system. Steady state sessions at moderate to higher intensities will, but it will also cause a shift from anabolism to a more catabolic state by changing the test:cortisol ratio.

HIIT is the way to go...however, high volume HIIT sessions may suppress anabolic pathways as well. So, short, high intensity, HIIT sessions, preferably immediately following training (like 5 30 sec sprints w/ 60 sec of rest) are probably optimal for improving conditioning and maintaining or reducing BF levels while allowing for maximal muscle gains.

Br

 

[dkgreene88]

very good thread!

 

[smatters]

Thanks for that nice bit of info ZiR. I also read up somewhere on MuscleMag Int that following up a training session with cardio specifically helps to burn more fat from that particular isolated muscle area which you just trained. This, I know sounds like sh!t, but it's a recent study that was just published and not some old theory.

 

[ZiR RED]

Thanks for that nice bit of info ZiR. I also read up somewhere on MuscleMag Int that following up a training session with cardio specifically helps to burn more fat from that particular isolated muscle area which you just trained. This, I know sounds like sh!t, but it's a recent study that was just published and not some old theory.

Do you have a link to that study? It goes against the grain (pretty hard) and I would be interested to see how they measured fat loss, and what the possible mechanisms might be.

 

[CopyCat]

This is one of the better threads I have read here on AM in awhile. Most anything I would have said has already been said..lol

Since I am in here though and we are on this subject... Zir, would you be able to provide the full text of the following study? If I spend enough time through google I can usually find the full texts out there (I have no accounts). However, the quality of what little bandwidth I have here in Afghanistan and my lack of patience do not mix well..lol Would be appreciated.

Concurrent training: a meta-analysis examining interference of aerobic and resistance training

 

[aLinux]

If you're young and around 10% body fat already, just lift weights and continue with your daily activity (no "extra" cardio required), that's if size and mass is all you want.

Since I'm past 35 yrs of age, myself, I workout 3 days a week with weights (1 set per lift), then I take 4 days to recover. On the 4 days of recovery, I do just 2 days of tabata @ 4min and 2 days of slow incline treadmill @ 2.6-2.7mph - 20min each day.

Good luck.

 

[dillianc]

All the input is great guys, thank you!!

 

[ZiR RED]

This is one of the better threads I have read here on AM in awhile. Most anything I would have said has already been said..lol

Since I am in here though and we are on this subject... Zir, would you be able to provide the full text of the following study? If I spend enough time through google I can usually find the full texts out there (I have no accounts). However, the quality of what little bandwidth I have here in Afghanistan and my lack of patience do not mix well..lol Would be appreciated.

Concurrent training: a meta-analysis examining interference of aerobic and resistance training

Got it on a flash disk. PM me your email (or email me) and I'll send it over. If there's any others you want don't hesitate to ask.

 

[Jiigzz]

Thanks for that nice bit of info ZiR. I also read up somewhere on MuscleMag Int that following up a training session with cardio specifically helps to burn more fat from that particular isolated muscle area which you just trained. This, I know sounds like sh!t, but it's a recent study that was just published and not some old theory.

The problem with muscle magazines is that most (at least in the ones Ive seen) rely on in-vitro studies or on theories-that-make-sense-so-it-must happen-in-the-body kind of studies. Problem is, is that unless it is in-vivo its hard to determine if the same effect would really occur. I.e. i'm currently looking at review papers for the subject of "does high altitude training improve performance at sea-level" and all the mechanisms involved would seem to provide proof that it does. For example, the lower partial pressure of oxygen in the atmosphere at high altitude translates into lower arterial PO2 which signals the body to increase erythropoetin with in turn leads to an increased production of red blood cells which should improve oxygen carrying capacity in lower altitudes. However most of these studies are in-vitro and not in-vivo and its hard to find any proof that the lactate threshold is increased etc.

Same principles apply for other studies; just because it seems plausible it doesn't make it so.

 

[CopyCat]

Got it on a flash disk. PM me your email (or email me) and I'll send it over. If there's any others you want don't hesitate to ask.

Pm'd my email, thanks man

 

[MiniSeth]

Sub'd to hear more about thoughts on the elevation training theories vs. real studies