- 06-05-2012, 08:15 AM
- 06-05-2012, 08:18 AM
I personally feel like it's best to try different routines and see what your body responds to the best. I can tell you after almost 20 years of training, my body does the best training chest/back together, biceps and triceps together, and doing legs by themselves.
06-05-2012, 08:25 AM
So it's just personal preference? I was doing some reading the other day and came across some information about upper back and chest working together to increase bench. Obviously I'm still learning as I go but to me the push/pull kinda split seems like it would allow you to focus on muscles more individually instead of working muscles with opposite movements hence the push/pull. It just looks counterproductive to me, I was just curious I guess.Originally Posted by bobbymac
06-05-2012, 08:29 AM
Arnold was a BIG believer in chest/back training. Whether you realize it or not, your back plays a huge role in chest/bench work. So when you superset chest/back, your chest is getting a phenomenal workout. If you have never tried this type of routine, I would HIGHLY recommend it.
06-05-2012, 08:39 AM
The whole reason I came across that info was because I'm start the 5/3/1 program. I bought the Ebook and it is packed with info. Although it doesn't make sense to me, now that I think about it I keep seeing posts on doing Kroc rows on chest day to increase your bench. Learning something new every time I log into this site!
06-05-2012, 08:49 AM
06-05-2012, 08:54 AM
06-05-2012, 09:02 AM
M.Ed. Ex Phys
06-05-2012, 09:12 AM
That makes sense. I never would have guessed it took all of that to do bench press properly. The main reason I'm trying the 5/3/1 is to increase some of my lifts after being stuck at the same weight for some time now. After reading Wendler's Ebook and what you just said it seems I still have a lot to learn but that's part of it. I appreciate the info!
06-05-2012, 09:17 AM
06-05-2012, 09:43 AM
The boring but big layout for 5/3/1 would be a nice bodybuilding routine for a few weeks imoOriginally Posted by Rodja
06-05-2012, 09:47 AM
06-05-2012, 09:57 AM
No it wouldn't. Any routine will have minimal, if any impact over the period of a couple weeks. The bbb template is to be used over months, not weeks. As rodja mentioned, 5/3/1 wasn't designed with bb'rs in mind. Can bb'rs use it with success? Maybe, but it would need to be tweaked alot and once that's done, it's not 5/3/1 anymore. I'm currently doing bbb with some pretty good results, but I'm not a bb'r.Originally Posted by Mafesto31
<---did squats yesterday, had a good bit of trouble getting off the toilet this morning.
06-05-2012, 10:28 AM
Sorry I was meaning to say a couple months and yes I've had success as far as mass gains using 5/3/1 adding more reps/sets after the initial lifts.Originally Posted by napalm
06-05-2012, 01:02 PM
WRT to 5/3/1 and bodybuilding, I had an interesting conversation with a client this morning. He asked why I had him doing a few blocks of 2-4 rep work after he read in NSCA that hypertrophy rep range was much higher. I replied that by increasing strength now, it would translate into a greater load used during hypertrophy based training, resulting in greater gains during the hypertrophy blocks.
06-05-2012, 01:41 PM
06-05-2012, 01:53 PM
On the other hand, I think if you are working with inexperienced athletes (those with young training ages...especially high school) then adopting the olympic model (as a full 2-4 year plan) and spending a significant amount of time on remedial and work accumulation, and planning for an overall peak the senior season is a great idea.
06-05-2012, 02:24 PM
M.Ed. Ex Phys
06-05-2012, 05:07 PM
06-05-2012, 05:12 PM
06-05-2012, 05:31 PM
06-05-2012, 05:52 PM
My major issue with the NSCA is the research that they publish. Ever since they switched to monthly paper publications, the quality of research and the type of research has (IMO) gone down hill. The need to "bridge the gap" has turned into much more theoretical publications with very little application to the world of strength and conditioning. For example, there is a lot of reports detailing the fitness levels of various team sport athletes, and even more reporting on post activation potentiation.
And then there are just poorly designed studies. Like comparing barbell vs. kettlebell training on strength, but, not matching intensity of load (i.e.: 80% barbell squat and 80% kettle bell squat for reps) and then at the end just testing increases in barbell strength, rather than seeing what kettle bell training does for both barbell and KB strength, and what barbell training does for KB and BB strength.
06-05-2012, 05:56 PM
But if you are an athlete with a long season, such as football, basketball, rugby, track, etc. Then its not a very good program. You need to peak athletes and then maintain or even increase during the season, and there are a number of different forms of fitness that need to be maintained (strength, power, conditioning, muscular endurance, size, etc.). This is why conjugated or undulating periodization is so effective.
06-05-2012, 05:56 PM
Another problem is that it is a percentage based system. Unless the max is consistently tested, the percentage can be highly inaccurate and the first 2 mesocycles don't do much for maximal strength development. They're great for shoring up weaknesses in the kinetic chain, but why would you take a break from training the actual movements in a ME fashion? You also don't get feedback in the form of strength increases until weeks down the road once the microcycle has been completed, so how do you know the lifts that you chose helped or hindered?
These are just some of the examples of the problems that I have with it and the NSCA does not want to deviate from it.
M.Ed. Ex Phys
06-05-2012, 06:23 PM
in your opinion, would it be worth the 650 bucks or so to join, get the study materials and then take the cscs? at this moment in time i have a job and my interest in the cscs is at this point strictly for knowledge, and possibly also having something to fall back on just in case. a stupid goal of mine is to be the strength coach at a high school. no grand plans or anything like that.
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