Chest and Back issues!

[RcMonahan]

I have been struggling in these 2 areas for size lately and any tips or tricks you guys have would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

 

[Bnatural]

for chest, be sure to keep your shoulder blades pulled together, focus on the speed of the rep. use lower reps/heavier weight.

for back, lighten the weight, focus more on form, add in pullups if you haven't used them already

 

[codywaters]

Saying back is like saying front... what part of your back? Also, are we talking about size, strength, what? What part of your chest is lagging? upper, lower, middle? maybe some pics?

 

[RcMonahan]

Saying back is like saying front... what part of your back? Also, are we talking about size, strength, what? What part of your chest is lagging? upper, lower, middle? maybe some pics?

Thx for the reply.
It's mostly my lats. Im really wanting to get them to widen out, but i also need more thickness so it doesn't look to awkward. The higher part of my lats are well developed and in proportion to my body. Its like the farther down they go towards my lower back, the less muscle there is. if that makes any sense.

My chest mostly lacks overall size compared to the rest of my body. but the weekest area is the lower chest. Decline barbell and dumbell bench is about all i could think of doing for them.

Ill get some pics up soon. I'm only 17 so dont expect much lol. but i've been hittin the weights hard for about 8 months now. I'm normally pretty smart about my lifts, its only until now that i've really come to some problems in growth.

 

[H8dook]

For lower chest,,,incorporate weighted dips.If you can't do weighted ones,do bodyweight until you can.
Make sure you are leaning forward during the exercise.This obviously hits the lower chest,while a vertical dip hits the tri's.

Weighted dips are by far superior to a decline press IMO.

 

[RcMonahan]

For lower chest,,,incorporate weighted dips.If you can't do weighted ones,do bodyweight until you can.
Make sure you are leaning forward during the exercise.This obviously hits the lower chest,while a vertical dip hits the tri's.

Weighted dips are by far superior to a decline press IMO.

Thanks man! Tomorrow's chest day so ill give it a shot. Anything on upper chest that has been really effective for anybody besides your incline press and flys?

 

[kingk0ng]

There's no such thing as the "lower chest". The pec is one muscle, consisting of two heads: sternal and clavicular and both heads are hit sufficiently with flat bench presses. You could incorporate weighted dips if you want; it is a better movement than declines.

Back workouts should be the opposite motions in the same plane as the "push" workouts. For example, bench presses and barbell rows, flies and bent over lateral raises, overhead presses and pullups. Work the opposite.

 

[rckvl7]

There's no such thing as the "lower chest". The pec is one muscle, consisting of two heads: sternal and clavicular and both heads are hit sufficiently with flat bench presses. You could incorporate weighted dips if you want; it is a better movement than declines.

Back workouts should be the opposite motions in the same plane as the "push" workouts. For example, bench presses and barbell rows, flies and bent over lateral raises, overhead presses and pullups. Work the opposite.

Great advice, not only does it help prevent injuries but the opposing lift will go up as well.

 

[kingk0ng]

Thank you for the reputation.

Yes. It is used as a tool to prevent injuries. A flexion for every extension (push for every pull) helps keep the body properly balanced. One of the most promising injuries in the gym is rotator cuff damage from overactive pushing muscles and neglected pulling muscles.

To answer your question- No. I haven't competed in powerlifting, but I'm considering it later on down the road. Up until this point I'm all natural, but I have always been interested in doing both bodybuilding and powerlifting in the future.

 

[codywaters]

For lower chest,,,incorporate weighted dips.If you can't do weighted ones,do bodyweight until you can.
Make sure you are leaning forward during the exercise.This obviously hits the lower chest,while a vertical dip hits the tri's.

Weighted dips are by far superior to a decline press IMO.

Agreed... it helps if the bars are a little wider appart then the normal dip machines. If you do weighted (which I am sure your not ready for at 185lbs) you need to put the weight around your neck not your waist. Remember you need to lean forward at about a 25-30deg angle. Ship chains work best. Look up branch warrens workouts on utube..you will see what I mean.

For back I do 2 workouts a week.. one for width and the other for thickness.. Here is what I do.
Back Width
Wide-grip pullups 4 x failure
Wide-grip pulldowns 4 x 12
Reverse-grip pulldowns 4 x 12
horizontal wide grip row (12 over hand, then immediatly 12 underhand) 4sets
V-bar pulldowns 4 x 12
behind head pulldowns FST-7

Back Thickness
Seated Cable rope rows 4x12
dumbbell row 4 x 12
Barbell row 4 x 12
T-bar rows 4 x 12
cable pullover FST-7
Rack Pulls 5x5

FST-7 is 7 sets of 10-12 with 30-45seconds rest. its used as a volumizer to stretch the facia around the muscle....its very hard

remember, you are a novice...only 17 and only 8 month in the game. Make sure you eat a lot so your muscles can grow. dont worry about loosing your four pack, the more muscle you gain, the easier it is to burn off the fat

 

[codywaters]

There's no such thing as the "lower chest". The pec is one muscle, consisting of two heads: sternal and clavicular and both heads are hit sufficiently with flat bench presses.

I am going to have to seriously disagree with you here. No disrespect to you, but this sounds like something you learn in gym class, and not something that will help a guy understand how to build his body. To be more specific, the flat barbell bench press is probably the most un-productive tool to build your pectoralis muscles. There have been countless studys in which the muscle activation is measured that shows this. Dumbell presses and flys to name a few are much more effective at building mass. If we are talking pure strength then our opinions may converge a little more.

The main problem with the flat BB bench is that you put the majority of the strain on the weakest link in the chain (being your front delts, tricepts, pecs and lats) Lets say your chest is strong but your shoulders and tri's are weak.. guess what you are working.... yup.. shoulders and tri's...

Think about this... when was the last time you felt a hardcore burn from doing flat bench alone... I personaly can bench 445 without a shirt, but also have very strong shoulders and tricepts (and a great powerlifting form) When its time to build mass.. flat BB bench is not on the list....

 

[brownstown89]

I am going to have to seriously disagree with you here. No disrespect to you, but this sounds like something you learn in gym class, and not something that will help a guy understand how to build his body. To be more specific, the flat barbell bench press is probably the most un-productive tool to build your pectoralis muscles. There have been countless studys in which the muscle activation is measured that shows this. Dumbell presses and flys to name a few are much more effective at building mass. If we are talking pure strength then our opinions may converge a little more.

The main problem with the flat BB bench is that you put the majority of the strain on the weakest link in the chain (being your front delts, tricepts, pecs and lats) Lets say your chest is strong but your shoulders and tri's are weak.. guess what you are working.... yup.. shoulders and tri's...

Think about this... when was the last time you felt a hardcore burn from doing flat bench alone... I personaly can bench 445 without a shirt, but also have very strong shoulders and tricepts (and a great powerlifting form) When its time to build mass.. flat BB bench is not on the list....

yup... unless u have terrible form you wont get a burn from bench press (flat) in ur chest.. Now if you just want to have a diesel chest and not so worried about BB style bench press will get u some good size. but your a BB you want to scuplt your pecs so listen to this man

 

[kingk0ng]

I am going to have to seriously disagree with you here. No disrespect to you, but this sounds like something you learn in gym class, and not something that will help a guy understand how to build his body. To be more specific, the flat barbell bench press is probably the most un-productive tool to build your pectoralis muscles. There have been countless studys in which the muscle activation is measured that shows this. Dumbell presses and flys to name a few are much more effective at building mass. If we are talking pure strength then our opinions may converge a little more.

The main problem with the flat BB bench is that you put the majority of the strain on the weakest link in the chain (being your front delts, tricepts, pecs and lats) Lets say your chest is strong but your shoulders and tri's are weak.. guess what you are working.... yup.. shoulders and tri's...

Think about this... when was the last time you felt a hardcore burn from doing flat bench alone... I personaly can bench 445 without a shirt, but also have very strong shoulders and tricepts (and a great powerlifting form) When its time to build mass.. flat BB bench is not on the list....

Let me start by saying I don't mind someone disagreeing with me.

First off, the decline barbell press is nothing more than a shorter ROM bench press. You can no way isolate a muscle that doesn't exist.

And no, regardless of what you do the shoulder and triceps are not going overwork the chest in the bench press (unless of course you're turning it into a close grip bench press of some kind). The reason your chest exists is to push infront. We keep our elbows at the sides to prevent the shoulders from having a big effect with the movement.

I posted this in another thread, but read this:

This experiment investigated the effects of varying bench inclination and hand spacing on the EMG activity of five muscles acting at the shoulder joint. Six male weight trainers performed presses under four conditions of trunk inclination and two of hand spacing at 80% of their predetermined max. Preamplified surface EMG electrodes were placed over the five muscles in question. The EMG signals during the 2-sec lift indicated some significant effects of trunk inclination and hand spacing. The sternocostal head of the pectoralis major was more active during the press from a horizontal bench than from a decline bench. Also, the clavicular head of the pectoralis major was no more active during the incline bench press than during the horizontal one, but it was less active during the decline bench press. The clavicular head of the pectoralis major was more active with a narrow hand spacing. Anterior deltoid activity tended to increase as trunk inclination increased. The long head of the triceps brachii was more active during the decline and flat bench presses than the other two conditions, and was also more active with a narrow hand spacing. Latissimus dorsi exhibited low activity in all conditions.

I know it's a lot on incline presses, but it also talks about how all you do with decline presses is take the clavicular head of the pec out of the lift.

Why do you think powerlifters do not perform decline presses? Because muscle grows sufficiently through perfectly horizontally bench pressing.

And flies are NO WAY more effective than bench presses for building mass. Isolating muscle groups not only blocks coordination, but slows down hormonal response. "Your body knows movements; not muscle groups".

The problem with weight training itself is people are far too concerned with a "burn" and not making progress. Show me someone with a 400 lb bench press with his weak delts, triceps, and pecs. See what I'm saying? Developing your flat bench press is the superior way to adding mass to your chest.

I can do 50 reps of bench presses with 30% of my 1RM and get a "burn", but that is irrelevant to building muscle. The "burn" is nothing more than the byproduct of your anaerobic glycosis, which is lactic acid. I can perform 100 curls per day with a 5 lb dumbell slowly and get a burn, but it will not add mass until I start putting weight on the big lifts.

 

[brownstown89]

Let me start by saying I don't mind someone disagreeing with me.

First off, the decline barbell press is nothing more than a shorter ROM bench press. You can no way isolate a muscle that doesn't exist.

And no, regardless of what you do the shoulder and triceps are not going overwork the chest in the bench press (unless of course you're turning it into a close grip bench press of some kind). The reason your chest exists is to push infront. We keep our elbows at the sides to prevent the shoulders from having a big effect with the movement.

I posted this in another thread, but read this:

This experiment investigated the effects of varying bench inclination and hand spacing on the EMG activity of five muscles acting at the shoulder joint. Six male weight trainers performed presses under four conditions of trunk inclination and two of hand spacing at 80% of their predetermined max. Preamplified surface EMG electrodes were placed over the five muscles in question. The EMG signals during the 2-sec lift indicated some significant effects of trunk inclination and hand spacing. The sternocostal head of the pectoralis major was more active during the press from a horizontal bench than from a decline bench. Also, the clavicular head of the pectoralis major was no more active during the incline bench press than during the horizontal one, but it was less active during the decline bench press. The clavicular head of the pectoralis major was more active with a narrow hand spacing. Anterior deltoid activity tended to increase as trunk inclination increased. The long head of the triceps brachii was more active during the decline and flat bench presses than the other two conditions, and was also more active with a narrow hand spacing. Latissimus dorsi exhibited low activity in all conditions.

I know it's a lot on incline presses, but it also talks about how all you do with decline presses is take the clavicular head of the pec out of the lift.

Why do you think powerlifters do not perform decline presses? Because muscle grows sufficiently through perfectly horizontally bench pressing.

And flies are NO WAY more effective than bench presses for building mass. Isolating muscle groups not only blocks coordination, but slows down hormonal response. "Your body knows movements; not muscle groups".

The problem with weight training itself is people are far too concerned with a "burn" and not making progress. Show me someone with a 400 lb bench press with his weak delts, triceps, and pecs. See what I'm saying? Developing your flat bench press is the superior way to adding mass to your chest.

I can do 50 reps of bench presses with 30% of my 1RM and get a "burn", but that is irrelevant to building muscle. The "burn" is nothing more than the byproduct of your anaerobic glycosis, which is lactic acid. I can perform 100 curls per day with a 5 lb dumbell slowly and get a burn, but it will not add mass until I start putting weight on the big lifts.

I think the OP was only concerned with having a bodybuilder look not just a jacked look. He prolly wanted to have perfect symetry etc.. all that stuff that comes with flyes and db presses etc..

but i do agree with you in keeping it simple and everything grows. i try to tell my friend who is concered with doing so much volume that lookat everyone who benched 400+ deadlift 500+ there all very jacked

 

[kingk0ng]

I think the OP was only concerned with having a bodybuilder look not just a jacked look. He prolly wanted to have perfect symetry etc.. all that stuff that comes with flyes and db presses etc..

but i do agree with you in keeping it simple and everything grows. i try to tell my friend who is concered with doing so much volume that lookat everyone who benched 400+ deadlift 500+ there all very jacked

Even if he is only concerned with symmetry and hypertrophy he should stick to his bench presses and not isolations.

Think about this, what principle causes muscle hypertrophy? Progressive overload. What does progressive overload require? Progress. Is it easier to progress your bench or your fly on a linear basis? Your bench.

As far as flies go on the other hand, they are very hard on the RC. Bench presses are too, but at least you're getting an overall body workout when you do them. Your body becomes more efficient at growing to natural motions and a fly is an unnatural motion. Anyway, for perfect symmetry and balance you'd want to stick with multi-joint exercises, so you kill 2 birds with 1 stone. If you go around isolating all your muscles groups you will lose a lot of hormonal support, which ultimately effects the outcome of gains.

 

[H8dook]

There's no such thing as the "lower chest". The pec is one muscle, consisting of two heads: sternal and clavicular and both heads are hit sufficiently with flat bench presses. You could incorporate weighted dips if you want; it is a better movement than declines.

Back workouts should be the opposite motions in the same plane as the "push" workouts. For example, bench presses and barbell rows, flies and bent over lateral raises, overhead presses and pullups. Work the opposite.

WRONG again....NO such thing as lower chest???

http://library.med.utah.edu/WebPath/HISTHTML/ANATOMY/ANATOMY.html

 

[kingk0ng]

WRONG again....NO such thing as lower chest???

That is not muscles.

There is a pectoralis major and MINOR. The MAJOR has 2 heads, a lower head (sternal) and upper head (clavicular) and both are stimulated during flat pressing motions. The pectoralis minor are three very small heads that cannot be isolated.

 

[H8dook]

FLAT BENCH=OVERALL CHEST MOVEMENT
INCLINE-UPPER CHEST
DECLINE=LOWER CHEST
WEIGHTLIFTING 101.

 

[kingk0ng]

FLAT BENCH=OVERALL CHEST MOVEMENT
INCLINE-UPPER CHEST
DECLINE=LOWER CHEST
WEIGHTLIFTING 101.

Decline does not target a muscle that doesn't exist.

Declines simply take most of the delts and sternal head of the pec out of the exercise; it is nothing more than a half ROM bench press.

A better substitution is weighted dips. You cannot target a non-existed muscle.

 

[kingk0ng]

Now I am finally able to post links, so here you go.

* Lower Chest: The lower chest muscle is a myth. It’s simply not there. The decline bench press will work your chest from a different angle, yes. But there is no such thing as a lower chest muscle that is distinct or separate from other chest muscles.

* Inner/ Outer Chest Muscles: Again, there’s no such thing as focusing on your inner or outer chest muscles. Many people believe that flat bench flyes will work your outer chest while the peck deck flyes work your inner chest. This is more of an illusion that comes from the fact that each exercise places greater stress on your chest at different points in the range of motion.

Source: http://worldfitnessnetwork.com/2008/03/chest-pec-training-muscles/

Continue to believe misconceptions.

 

[H8dook]

Now I am finally able to post links, so here you go.



Source: http://worldfitnessnetwork.com/2008/03/chest-pec-training-muscles/

Continue to believe misconceptions.

Hello everyone! it's God's gift to AM and the ENTIRE bodybuiding world..Let's give him a warm AM welcome.He will change the WHOLE business of b-building as we know it

 

[RcMonahan]

He's right. there isn't a seperate lower chest muscle in your pecs. but there are ways to isolate just that area (the lower chest) by itself without involving the other areas of your pecs. for example the decline press and weighted dips you guys are talking about. those isolate just the lower part of the chest. the lower chest is not a seperate muscle.