Dextrose v. WMS: Which is better in terms of recovery pre, during, and post WO??

I've been wondering about this too...been using WMS in my post workout drink with Creatine mono and Xtend for about a month now; but never used dextrose before.
 
I don't think one is guaranteed superior than the other in the terms listed above. Some respond well to dextrose using intra/post workout while others will notice considerable stomach issues. WMS has better feedback as far as stomach issues, and personally I like the fact that it is low glycemic, but that does not make it better either.

Everyone is different in terms of genetics and response to nutritional factors. Just have to find what works for you.
 
In all honesty I think they are very, very similar in function..

I believe WMS is absorbed slightly faster than dex, but it is almost negligible..

The only real reason I could see anybody saying WMS is superior to dex is if they get bloat from the dex (most likely) or, for whatever reason, they like the taste of WMS better..

Otherwise, it's just personal preference I guess.. I use dex but if somebody gave me some WMS, I'd use it!

They are pretty much equal -- take your pick! :D
 
i wouldn't say they are equall. WMS as no sugar in it, and it does digest faster than dextrose. That is why i prefer WMS.
 
Right now I do a 50/50 mix of dex and malto during training and I really see no difference between the times I have used WMS except the dex/malto taste better. If you can digest it go for the cheaper option of dex and malto.
 
avgBdybldr said:
i wouldn't say they are equall. WMS as no sugar in it, and it does digest faster than dextrose. That is why i prefer WMS.
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I see what you're saying, and the sugar part may be true, but he is asking about recovery -- and in terms of recovery, I would say they are quite equal.

Here is a post from John Berardi on another board..

Originally Posted by John Berardi
I've been seeing more and more waxy maize discussion here and as a result I thought I'd jump in.

For starters, the claims that WM is "much, much" faster absorbed seems fairly irrelevant to me - for most recreational exercisers - as well as high level athletes.

Let's not forget, the reason we minimize maltodextrin, sucrose, and dextrose in our daily intake is because they are already very, very quickly absorbed, leading to high blood concentrations of carbohydrate and concomitant surges of insulin. (Of course, this is precisely the reason we take them during/post exercise - for the blood sugar boost and anabolic insulin surge).

If we look to the data, huge blood sugar (and insulin) increases with malto and dextrose occur within 15-20 minutes of ingestion. However, these carbs are appearing in the bloodstream even faster. You see, digestion (and some absorption) of these 2 carbs begins in the mouth. So although PEAK blood concentrations don't occur until 15-20min in, there's no delay.

So, here's some food for thought...just a question to ponder...
Do you really need your blood sugar and blood insulin to peak 5-10 minutes sooner?

In the end, be careful with the marketing rhetoric about the amazing properties of WM and how fast it's absorbed. Dextrose, sucrose, and malto are also VERY quickly absorbed. And the difference between these and WM (which are real and have been measured) may very well be negligible.

So, with respect to speed of digestion/absorption, all this ado, seems to me, about nothing.

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Its a matter of preference!

Honestly it really is a matter of preference. For recovery, I notice a minor difference between the two. I prefer WMS because it is sugar-free and it tends to give me a pump even more so when I take my NeoVar with it post-workout, and WMS doesn't give me a bloated feeling. To be honest though...to say one is superior to the other...thats purely subjective. Just adding in my two cents!

Cheers!:cheers:
 
keep in mind GI only matters if you consume that material on an empty stomach with water only. add anything else and the GI changes and there is no telling how much. So even if WMS is 20 points lower as far as GI goes, how it affects you when mixed with BCAAs or whey may be no different than how dextrose dose :)

Also I think this is one of those things where the difference would only be measureable if you are at your genetic max and training natural only. Otherwise my assumption would be that the difference is so tiny that likely other "mistakes" or problems would cover up the statistical significance of their difference. On the average person here, I bet the difference wouldn't add up to an oz of muscle mass a month.
 
Precisely my thoughts!

EasyEJL said:
keep in mind GI only matters if you consume that material on an empty stomach with water only. add anything else and the GI changes and there is no telling how much. So even if WMS is 20 points lower as far as GI goes, how it affects you when mixed with BCAAs or whey may be no different than how dextrose dose :)

Also I think this is one of those things where the difference would only be measureable if you are at your genetic max and training natural only. Otherwise my assumption would be that the difference is so tiny that likely other "mistakes" or problems would cover up the statistical significance of their difference. On the average person here, I bet the difference wouldn't add up to an oz of muscle mass a month.
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^^^Ozarka...I believe Easy just answered your question. He beat me to it, but what he has said here is along the same lines of what I would have said. This is why I say the topic is purely subjective.

Cheers!:cheers:
 
SamBoz19 said:
^^^Ozarka...I believe Easy just answered your question. He beat me to it, but what he has said here is along the same lines of what I would have said. This is why I say the topic is purely subjective.

Cheers!:cheers:
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:) its something i've thought for a while, but a few weeks ago I spent a bunch of time talking with Hugo Rivera, and that was one of the things he mentioned - its not really that complicated, and those tiny differences add up to so little that being completely anal about the detail is ok when you have nothing else important to worry about, but almost none of us are in those shoes. So for most us, the difference between hitting 40/40/20 for macros and 37/41/22 for a day is inconsequential, and the effort (and life enjoyment leve) it takes to perfectly acheive the 40/40/20 isn't necessarily worth it.
 
i thought the difference between WMS and dex was that dex is all simple sugars and even though WMS is supposed to absorb faster its a complex carb and stays with you longer ..... or something like that??
 
EasyEJL said:
keep in mind GI only matters if you consume that material on an empty stomach with water only. add anything else and the GI changes and there is no telling how much. So even if WMS is 20 points lower as far as GI goes, how it affects you when mixed with BCAAs or whey may be no different than how dextrose dose :)

Also I think this is one of those things where the difference would only be measureable if you are at your genetic max and training natural only. Otherwise my assumption would be that the difference is so tiny that likely other "mistakes" or problems would cover up the statistical significance of their difference. On the average person here, I bet the difference wouldn't add up to an oz of muscle mass a month.
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You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to EasyEJL again.

Agreed 100%. Even if you were to attempt to measure differences in which works better for you aside from bloat and stomach issues the gains difference would be so insignificantly small that it wouldn't be possible to judge it.
 
Combination of Dextrose and WMS is the best. However if I had to pick one I will go with Dextrose.

The only issue with Dextrose is that it causes a bit of bloating, but I am not sure if its the Dextrose only that does it. I mean when I just take Dex by itself I am fine. It is the combination of Dex + Glutamine + Creatine that makes me bloated, more so the Creatine.

Also pricewise Dextrose is much cheaper than WMS, and easily obtained at most stores.

I go with Dex.
 
right now i do a 50/50 split of dextrose and maltrodextrin...do you guys suggest 33/33/33 split with wms or 50/50 with dextrose and wms?

iv been doing this for 5years (no bloat), im curious if switching it up would be beneficial for the mere fact of switching it up so your body doesn't get used to it...
 
mmmm I love my banannas, and oatmeal. I don't buy into the whole post workout drink except for protein.
 
TheMyth said:
mmmm I love my banannas, and oatmeal. I don't buy into the whole post workout drink except for protein.
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Same here. I keep my Dex or WMS or what ever I am using for intra workout fuel. I love me my w/w bagels and Banana Bread flavored oatmeal with banana. MMMM MMMM good.
 
i do wms and pure vt maple syrup in my post workout shake,. followed by a meal of ww bagel with chicken sandwhich and banana or apple 45 minutes later.
 
SamBoz19 said:
Honestly it really is a matter of preference. For recovery, I notice a minor difference between the two. I prefer WMS because it is sugar-free and it tends to give me a pump even more so when I take my NeoVar with it post-workout, and WMS doesn't give me a bloated feeling. To be honest though...to say one is superior to the other...thats purely subjective. Just adding in my two cents!

Cheers!:cheers:
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What does sugar free have to do with it? Maltodextrin is a complex carbohydrate and at the end everything becomes a sugar before it becomes stored as glycogen.
 
ozarkaBRAND said:
Idk, but I frickin' wanna know..

I googled it and didn't come up with anything.
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Carbohydrates are transported into Cells by GLUT4. GLUT4 is signaled by Insulin, exercise, and supplements like Anabolic Pump or P-SLIN.

My questions is if WMS has a SUPER DUPER FAST Digestion rate the only way it makes it into the cells as glycogen is with insulin.

I get Hypoglycemic with WMS and thats because of the fast digestion rate and subsequent drop in plasma insulin(my reasoning until I see date on the contrary) Which is exactly how Berardi explains is above.
 
USPLabs said:
Carbohydrates are transported into Cells by GLUT4. GLUT4 is signaled by Insulin, exercise, and supplements like Anabolic Pump or P-SLIN.

My questions is if WMS has a SUPER DUPER FAST Digestion rate the only way it makes it into the cells as glycogen is with insulin.

I get Hypoglycemic with WMS and thats because of the fast digestion rate and subsequent drop in plasma insulin(my reasoning until I see date on the contrary) Which is exactly how Berardi explains is above.
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You make a very nice point.. Glad you popped up in here man! Keeping the discussion going!!
 
I've always used dextose for at least four years now.

Never used Wazy Maize . Might have to try it oput when dextose runs out. dextose works well for me. i get no stomach issues
 
Leucine has been shown to boost insulin levels quite a bit and would be a good adjunct to any pwo drink. But like OCCFan023 said the variances amongst individuals will likely result in different reactions. So there's always a bit of experimentation required to find your ideal mix.
 
Wanderlei said:
Leucine has been shown to boost insulin levels quite a bit and would be a good adjunct to any pwo drink. But like OCCFan023 said the variances amongst individuals will likely result in different reactions. So there's always a bit of experimentation required to find your ideal mix.
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Leucine in the absence of carbohydrates?
 
I thought leucine was the AA that didn't glucowhateverthewordis, turn into glucose in bloodstrem. Was a few conversations about using leucine only pre/during fasted cardio in place of a normal bcaa mix just to avoid any blood sugar climb.
 
USPLabs said:
Carbohydrates are transported into Cells by GLUT4. GLUT4 is signaled by Insulin, exercise, and supplements like Anabolic Pump or P-SLIN.

My questions is if WMS has a SUPER DUPER FAST Digestion rate the only way it makes it into the cells as glycogen is with insulin.

I get Hypoglycemic with WMS and thats because of the fast digestion rate and subsequent drop in plasma insulin(my reasoning until I see date on the contrary) Which is exactly how Berardi explains is above.
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This is exactly why I use WMS with Supercarb pre and intra workout. I get the initial burst of glycogen from the WMS, and then the Supercarb keeps my glycogen levels up during my workout. I use them with P-slin. I don't use any carbs in my post wo shake, and have a whole food carb (WW pasta/oats) meal after taking AP about an hour and a half after I finish training.
 
EasyEJL said:
I thought leucine was the AA that didn't glucowhateverthewordis, turn into glucose in bloodstrem. Was a few conversations about using leucine only pre/during fasted cardio in place of a normal bcaa mix just to avoid any blood sugar climb.
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You probably meant something else, but my recollection is that BCAAs are the only amino acids that hit the blood stream directly (without having to go through the liver to be synthesized into different substrates), making them quickly available for different functions in the body.
 
ah the word is Gluconeogenesis - Gluconeogenesis is the generation of glucose from non-sugar carbon substrates like pyruvate, lactate, glycerol, and glucogenic amino acids.

A glucogenic amino acid is an amino acid that can be converted into glucose through gluconeogenesis.[1][2] This is in contrast to the ketogenic amino acids that are converted into ketone bodies.

In humans, the glucogenic amino acids are - glycine, serine, threonine, valine, histidine, arginine, cysteine, proline, alanine, glutamate, glutamine, aspartate, asparagine and methionine, whereas isoleucine, phenylalanine, tyrosine and tryptophan can be either glucogenic or ketogenic


regular Leucine is the only one that isn't in that list :) so it can't be converted to glucose by the liver.
 
ozarkaBRAND said:
I'm thinking a mixture is the best way to go.. Seems that way to me. So, I'm a gonna have ta try dat out.
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Have you used both before? Stomach issues are unlikely but if it were to rear its head than you won't know which would really be the culprit (although it would likely be the Dex). For the price at Nutra its worth just getting both and going 2 weeks individually then going 1/2 and 1/2.
 
OCCFan023 said:
Have you used both before? Stomach issues are unlikely but if it were to rear its head than you won't know which would really be the culprit (although it would likely be the Dex). For the price at Nutra its worth just getting both and going 2 weeks individually then going 1/2 and 1/2.
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I've tried both. Currently I'm only using dextrose, which does tend to bloat me a bit (not a big prob, but not that fun to deal with).
 
FrankJ said:
None of the above.

Fructose is the best PWO sweetener.
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Maybe as a sweetner but not as a carboyhdrate to fuel recovery.

Fructose will only replenish liver glycogen and do nothing for muscular glycogen. The liver is not equiped to handle large amounts of fructose and what is not converted to liver glycogen is converted to fat.

A small amount of fructose mixed with dextrose makes sense but purely Fructose is a bad approach.
 
FrankJ said:
Fructose is the best PWO sweetener.
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:wtf::jaw: I think you need to look up how fructose differs in the way it's digested from other sugars. Fructose is something I tend to avoid unless in it original package (banana,apple etc) and even then I eat rarely.
 
USPLabs said:
Leucine in the absence of carbohydrates?
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Yes, leucine alone has been shown to increase insulin levels, albeit in rats.

I doubt anyone is touting leucine use without CHO or PRO though. The combo of all three has been shown to boost insulin levels quite dramtically(240%) in comparison to just CHO though. "Combined ingestion of protein and free leucine with carbohydrate increases postexercise muscle protein synthesis in vivo in male subjects"
 
Wanderlei said:
Yes, leucine alone has been shown to increase insulin levels, albeit in rats.

I doubt anyone is touting leucine use without CHO or PRO though. The combo of all three has been shown to boost insulin levels quite dramtically(240%) in comparison to just CHO though. "Combined ingestion of protein and free leucine with carbohydrate increases postexercise muscle protein synthesis in vivo in male subjects"
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what is CHO?

Pro is protein right?

so you can take luecine without taking any other Bcaa's and get just about the same benefits?

Purple wrath is kick ass and I like the fact that there's no L-glut in it because L-glut is best absorped on an empty stomach at least 30 mins after or before a meal
 
just a quick question. The whole point of adding WMS or dextrose is to spike insulin levels..which leads to better abosorption of creatine, protein, Bcaa..correct?
 
footster said:
just a quick question. The whole point of adding WMS or dextrose is to spike insulin levels..which leads to better abosorption of creatine, protein, Bcaa..correct?
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Define "spike" though. The bigger debate here is how much above normal does insulin need to be raised to effectively stimulate recovery and provide the shuttling of the above list (and its significantly lower than most believe.)
 
OCCFan023 said:
Define "spike" though. The bigger debate here is how much above normal does insulin need to be raised to effectively stimulate recovery and provide the shuttling of the above list (and its significantly lower than most believe.)
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hmm. I've just always used a premade creatine (SizeOn) so I've never really thought of WMS. However, for the summer and all you guys are talking about bloating..how long would that stay once you stopped? Advice? and do some not experience the bloating?
 
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