Thread title says it all...
I see what you're saying, and the sugar part may be true, but he is asking about recovery -- and in terms of recovery, I would say they are quite equal.i wouldn't say they are equall. WMS as no sugar in it, and it does digest faster than dextrose. That is why i prefer WMS.
^^^Ozarka...I believe Easy just answered your question. He beat me to it, but what he has said here is along the same lines of what I would have said. This is why I say the topic is purely subjective.keep in mind GI only matters if you consume that material on an empty stomach with water only. add anything else and the GI changes and there is no telling how much. So even if WMS is 20 points lower as far as GI goes, how it affects you when mixed with BCAAs or whey may be no different than how dextrose dose
Also I think this is one of those things where the difference would only be measureable if you are at your genetic max and training natural only. Otherwise my assumption would be that the difference is so tiny that likely other "mistakes" or problems would cover up the statistical significance of their difference. On the average person here, I bet the difference wouldn't add up to an oz of muscle mass a month.
its something i've thought for a while, but a few weeks ago I spent a bunch of time talking with Hugo Rivera, and that was one of the things he mentioned - its not really that complicated, and those tiny differences add up to so little that being completely anal about the detail is ok when you have nothing else important to worry about, but almost none of us are in those shoes. So for most us, the difference between hitting 40/40/20 for macros and 37/41/22 for a day is inconsequential, and the effort (and life enjoyment leve) it takes to perfectly acheive the 40/40/20 isn't necessarily worth it.^^^Ozarka...I believe Easy just answered your question. He beat me to it, but what he has said here is along the same lines of what I would have said. This is why I say the topic is purely subjective.
Cheers!:cheers:
I'm thinking of trying this. I have a bunch of both, so why not?for the price of dextrose why not mix the two??
+1for the price of dextrose why not mix the two??
You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to EasyEJL again.keep in mind GI only matters if you consume that material on an empty stomach with water only. add anything else and the GI changes and there is no telling how much. So even if WMS is 20 points lower as far as GI goes, how it affects you when mixed with BCAAs or whey may be no different than how dextrose dose
Also I think this is one of those things where the difference would only be measureable if you are at your genetic max and training natural only. Otherwise my assumption would be that the difference is so tiny that likely other "mistakes" or problems would cover up the statistical significance of their difference. On the average person here, I bet the difference wouldn't add up to an oz of muscle mass a month.
Same here. I keep my Dex or WMS or what ever I am using for intra workout fuel. I love me my w/w bagels and Banana Bread flavored oatmeal with banana. MMMM MMMM good.mmmm I love my banannas, and oatmeal. I don't buy into the whole post workout drink except for protein.
What does sugar free have to do with it? Maltodextrin is a complex carbohydrate and at the end everything becomes a sugar before it becomes stored as glycogen.Honestly it really is a matter of preference. For recovery, I notice a minor difference between the two. I prefer WMS because it is sugar-free and it tends to give me a pump even more so when I take my NeoVar with it post-workout, and WMS doesn't give me a bloated feeling. To be honest though...to say one is superior to the other...thats purely subjective. Just adding in my two cents!
Cheers!:cheers:
Idk, but I frickin' wanna know..Where is the data on WMS and insulin response? Is there any?
Carbohydrates are transported into Cells by GLUT4. GLUT4 is signaled by Insulin, exercise, and supplements like Anabolic Pump or P-SLIN.Idk, but I frickin' wanna know..
I googled it and didn't come up with anything.
You make a very nice point.. Glad you popped up in here man! Keeping the discussion going!!Carbohydrates are transported into Cells by GLUT4. GLUT4 is signaled by Insulin, exercise, and supplements like Anabolic Pump or P-SLIN.
My questions is if WMS has a SUPER DUPER FAST Digestion rate the only way it makes it into the cells as glycogen is with insulin.
I get Hypoglycemic with WMS and thats because of the fast digestion rate and subsequent drop in plasma insulin(my reasoning until I see date on the contrary) Which is exactly how Berardi explains is above.
Leucine in the absence of carbohydrates?Leucine has been shown to boost insulin levels quite a bit and would be a good adjunct to any pwo drink. But like OCCFan023 said the variances amongst individuals will likely result in different reactions. So there's always a bit of experimentation required to find your ideal mix.
Carbohydrates are transported into Cells by GLUT4. GLUT4 is signaled by Insulin, exercise, and supplements like Anabolic Pump or P-SLIN.
My questions is if WMS has a SUPER DUPER FAST Digestion rate the only way it makes it into the cells as glycogen is with insulin.
I get Hypoglycemic with WMS and thats because of the fast digestion rate and subsequent drop in plasma insulin(my reasoning until I see date on the contrary) Which is exactly how Berardi explains is above.
You probably meant something else, but my recollection is that BCAAs are the only amino acids that hit the blood stream directly (without having to go through the liver to be synthesized into different substrates), making them quickly available for different functions in the body.I thought leucine was the AA that didn't glucowhateverthewordis, turn into glucose in bloodstrem. Was a few conversations about using leucine only pre/during fasted cardio in place of a normal bcaa mix just to avoid any blood sugar climb.
your reasoning for this?None of the above.
Fructose is the best PWO sweetener.
Have you used both before? Stomach issues are unlikely but if it were to rear its head than you won't know which would really be the culprit (although it would likely be the Dex). For the price at Nutra its worth just getting both and going 2 weeks individually then going 1/2 and 1/2.I'm thinking a mixture is the best way to go.. Seems that way to me. So, I'm a gonna have ta try dat out.
I've tried both. Currently I'm only using dextrose, which does tend to bloat me a bit (not a big prob, but not that fun to deal with).Have you used both before? Stomach issues are unlikely but if it were to rear its head than you won't know which would really be the culprit (although it would likely be the Dex). For the price at Nutra its worth just getting both and going 2 weeks individually then going 1/2 and 1/2.
None of the above.
Fructose is the best PWO sweetener.
:wtf::jaw: I think you need to look up how fructose differs in the way it's digested from other sugars. Fructose is something I tend to avoid unless in it original package (banana,apple etc) and even then I eat rarely.Fructose is the best PWO sweetener.
i love Waxy maize. take it pre workout too and the pumps are huge.i wouldn't say they are equall. WMS as no sugar in it, and it does digest faster than dextrose. That is why i prefer WMS.
Yes, leucine alone has been shown to increase insulin levels, albeit in rats.Leucine in the absence of carbohydrates?
what is CHO?Yes, leucine alone has been shown to increase insulin levels, albeit in rats.
I doubt anyone is touting leucine use without CHO or PRO though. The combo of all three has been shown to boost insulin levels quite dramtically(240%) in comparison to just CHO though. "Combined ingestion of protein and free leucine with carbohydrate increases postexercise muscle protein synthesis in vivo in male subjects"
That is one of the main reasons, oh yes.just a quick question. The whole point of adding WMS or dextrose is to spike insulin levels..which leads to better abosorption of creatine, protein, Bcaa..correct?
Define "spike" though. The bigger debate here is how much above normal does insulin need to be raised to effectively stimulate recovery and provide the shuttling of the above list (and its significantly lower than most believe.)just a quick question. The whole point of adding WMS or dextrose is to spike insulin levels..which leads to better abosorption of creatine, protein, Bcaa..correct?
hmm. I've just always used a premade creatine (SizeOn) so I've never really thought of WMS. However, for the summer and all you guys are talking about bloating..how long would that stay once you stopped? Advice? and do some not experience the bloating?Define "spike" though. The bigger debate here is how much above normal does insulin need to be raised to effectively stimulate recovery and provide the shuttling of the above list (and its significantly lower than most believe.)