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machineokc

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Have you guys seen the price of this stuff! Back in the day, you could do a decent cycle for about the same price. hopefully NP will lower the price a bit.

:squat: "ya ain't done 'till ya hurl"
 
GuitarHero

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:sad: $99! I had to check my calender to make sure it wasn't April Fools Day.
 
T-AD

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Yup....probably just holding that price until they can name their own. All good, guys!! :D
 
Iron Lungz

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So the actual MSRP is $99? I really hope the price is decent enough so that I may run two bottles at 6-8 caps a day.
:D
 
GuitarHero

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So the actual MSRP is $99? I really hope the price is decent enough so that I may run two bottles at 6-8 caps a day.
:D
I found another site selling it at like $53/bottle, which I think still seems a little high... I'm praying for $34.99 at NP :head:
 
TripDog

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I found another site selling it at like $53/bottle, which I think still seems a little high... I'm praying for $34.99 at NP :head:
53 it way too high!
 
Iron Lungz

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Yeah, I draw the line at $40. If I drop a good amount of money, you can best believe it will have the word Test and IGF in it!

Hopefully it will be in my budget, though.
I found another site selling it at like $53/bottle, which I think still seems a little high... I'm praying for $34.99 at NP :head:
 
TripDog

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Yeah, I draw the line at $40. If I drop a good amount of money, you can best believe it will have the word Test and IGF in it!

Hopefully it will be in my budget, though.
40 is good
 
TripDog

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pistonpump

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yeah, i dont generally pay more than 40 for one sup unless its like bulk protien or something.
 
thebigt

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i can't get my head around the fact that np can sell stuff at half msrp and still make a profit. gnc is a big outfit, they have to be getting stuff for at least as cheap as np, wtf is up with the markup-imo, the greed of the supplement companies will come back to bite them on the arse. THANK GOD FOR NUTRA PLANET...
 
B5150

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i can't get my head around the fact that np can sell stuff at half msrp and still make a profit. gnc is a big outfit, they have to be getting stuff for at least as cheap as np, wtf is up with the markup-imo, the greed of the supplement companies will come back to bite them on the arse. THANK GOD FOR NUTRA PLANET...
How many employees does GNC employ? How many upper management? How many building leases do they pay. How much health benefits do they pay their employes. How much do they market and advertise on TV, magazines, newspapers, etc etc?

Lower overhead, lower prices, it's really not such a remarkable or ground breaking business practice.

Really the ONLY thing that would get me to even consider using this is the fact that Mr. DS is behind it.

Considering the fact that most all of the tester logs are sponsor reps does nothing for confidence...:think:
 
Iron Lungz

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Considering the fact that most all of the tester logs are sponsor reps does nothing for confidence...:think:
I noticed this as well. I wonder what the thought process was for this?

I can't wait to see some non-sponsored reviews around before I decide to purchase this.
 
B5150

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I noticed this as well. I wonder what the thought process was for this?

I can't wait to see some non-sponsored reviews around before I decide to purchase this.
Sponsor reps logging and 'testing' other sponsor product. It's a nice little racket these guys have going on here with eachother. It is getting to the point that it is ridiculous. Serioulsy ridiculous. I'm embarrased at what this has turned into. It's a shame really.
 
Iron Lungz

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You wash my back... yadda yadda yadda type of thing?
I do see what you're saying. Well, time is the true measure for anything, or anyone, so we will see.
Sponsor reps logging and 'testing' other sponsor product. It's a nice little racket these guys have going on here with eachother. It is getting to the point that it is ridiculous. Serioulsy ridiculous. I'm embarrased at what this has turned into. It's a shame really.
 
thebigt

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How many employees does GNC employ? How many upper management? How many building leases do they pay. How much health benefits do they pay their employes. How much do they market and advertise on TV, magazines, newspapers, etc etc?

Lower overhead, lower prices, it's really not such a remarkable or ground breaking business practice.

i agree, there should be a higher markup. but come on double. you could sell 1 product at $10 profit, or sell 5 at $5 profit. with all the money gnc spends on gimmick advertising trying to sell their over priced stuff they should just lower their prices. duh.
 
thebigt

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Sponsor reps logging and 'testing' other sponsor product. It's a nice little racket these guys have going on here with eachother. It is getting to the point that it is ridiculous. Serioulsy ridiculous. I'm embarrased at what this has turned into. It's a shame really.
all us regulars realise what's going on, problem is that noobs or browsers are going to take them at face value. if you are a regular poster, it doesn't take very long to see that sponsored logs are a scam.
 
B5150

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i agree, there should be a higher markup. but come on double. you could sell 1 product at $10 profit, or sell 5 at $5 profit. with all the money gnc spends on gimmick advertising trying to sell their over priced stuff they should just lower their prices. duh.
You are preaching to the choir.
 
jonny21

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Really the ONLY thing that would get me to even consider using this is the fact that Mr. DS is behind it.

Considering the fact that most all of the tester logs are sponsor reps does nothing for confidence...:think:
My sentiments exactly.

Besides, the logs are filled with so much unecessary BS that I can't even read them.
 

RipdnTxs2

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I,m with 5150 on the whole company sponsored logs. This site has changed alot in the last year. :(
 
B5150

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Please consider that the AM "site" is not owned by the retailer or supplement sponsors. It has it's independent ownership and independent staff.

What sponsors choose to use as their business practices does not reflect the views or opinions of the board, ownership and staff.

So please consider that when you use the word "site" it may unfairly associates us (ownership, staff, members as a whole) as endorser and supporters of such practices. This would be a mistake. But I am sure that you know what I mean and did not insinuate anything by the statement.

The site has never been better. :D
 
Mulletsoldier

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The 2-andro component looks promising, as was its methylated counterpart; I have seen PA comment on its ineffectiveness when taken orally, but Mr.Cahill is posing the opposite 'over there'. His comments are actually somewhat encouraging.

However, I could formulate an oral-suspension of Test Base, taking the massive waste therein into account, and still spend less than the projected retail for this product.
 

jsp0882

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Yeah, I draw the line at $40. If I drop a good amount of money, you can best believe it will have the word Test and IGF in it!

Hopefully it will be in my budget, though.
$40 is too high for a months worth of steroids?
 

jsp0882

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How many employees does GNC employ? How many upper management? How many building leases do they pay. How much health benefits do they pay their employes. How much do they market and advertise on TV, magazines, newspapers, etc etc?

Lower overhead, lower prices, it's really not such a remarkable or ground breaking business practice.

i agree, there should be a higher markup. but come on double. you could sell 1 product at $10 profit, or sell 5 at $5 profit. with all the money gnc spends on gimmick advertising trying to sell their over priced stuff they should just lower their prices. duh.
seriously? all that advertisment seems to work for muscle tech. there's a reason every company in the world spends millions on advertising.
 

jsp0882

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i can't get my head around the fact that np can sell stuff at half msrp and still make a profit. gnc is a big outfit, they have to be getting stuff for at least as cheap as np, wtf is up with the markup-imo, the greed of the supplement companies will come back to bite them on the arse. THANK GOD FOR NUTRA PLANET...
there aren't any companies that sell products at MSRP. if u can find one let me know and if u have such a problem with it it's not like u have to shop there. open up a business and mark ur products way down and see how long you're in business.
 
Mulletsoldier

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why the quotes around steroids? and where are u buying your stuff
lol, I wouldn't tread so lightly with B-Fiddy patrolling this thread.

Keep that line of questioning away from me, and out of this thread, or it will surely be locked.

The quotations were for non-specificity; if you are wondering which compound is in question, or need to ask, then you shouldn't be considering using them.

:thumbsup:
 
T-AD

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Sponsor reps logging and 'testing' other sponsor product. It's a nice little racket these guys have going on here with eachother. It is getting to the point that it is ridiculous. Serioulsy ridiculous. I'm embarrased at what this has turned into. It's a shame really.
To be honest with everyone, I'm always on the fence with sponsored logs. (This is me personally, btw...) Whatever the marketing tactic is behind it, I'm not exactly sure. Everyone seems to do it, and AX is no different. If known "rival" companies were to test eachother's products, there might be a hair more validity to it...but I don't think that happens all that much.

I whole-heartedly agree that the truly valid logs are those done by independent persons on their own and without endorsement. They come out AFTER the sponsored logs, and are sometimes spawned by the sponsored logs, but hold a different degree of experience in them. I always have appreciated those who decide to tell us that they are logging product X on their own. For me, it's more interesting to watch some new guy who has never tried anything before come in, ask questions, get things right (or make mistakes before straightened out) and give an honest, unbiased opinion on a product.

Believe it or not, being a rep, I've still not lost all my perspective on the rest of the industry's products. I've just grown out of the logging with intention to review and grown into the logging with intention to record. When I do a new product, I give it a mini-review if I want to, but always remember it for myself and base any advice that I'm asked on how it worked for me. Experience is the only factor in acquiring the proper knowledge of "what works for me". It's choosing what to "experience" that gets competitive, expensive, and like me, wordy. :)
 
B5150

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To be honest with everyone, I'm always on the fence with sponsored logs. (This is me personally, btw...) Whatever the marketing tactic is behind it, I'm not exactly sure. Everyone seems to do it, and AX is no different. If known "rival" companies were to test eachother's products, there might be a hair more validity to it...but I don't think that happens all that much.

I whole-heartedly agree that the truly valid logs are those done by independent persons on their own and without endorsement. They come out AFTER the sponsored logs, and are sometimes spawned by the sponsored logs, but hold a different degree of experience in them. I always have appreciated those who decide to tell us that they are logging product X on their own. For me, it's more interesting to watch some new guy who has never tried anything before come in, ask questions, get things right (or make mistakes before straightened out) and give an honest, unbiased opinion on a product.

Believe it or not, being a rep, I've still not lost all my perspective on the rest of the industry's products. I've just grown out of the logging with intention to review and grown into the logging with intention to record. When I do a new product, I give it a mini-review if I want to, but always remember it for myself and base any advice that I'm asked on how it worked for me. Experience is the only factor in acquiring the proper knowledge of "what works for me". It's choosing what to "experience" that gets competitive, expensive, and like me, wordy.
i think the issue that I have, and I believe that the others who are observant have is not so much choosing to conduct sponsored testing or logging. It is the choice of candidate. Anyone who has been around this board long enough knows the 'click' of sponsors on this board (gosh...when you guys were green there were pages and pages of threads comprised entirely of green user names). There are a few clicks within the groups comprised of various sponsor reps. I know who they are, you know who they are and anyone with eyes open enough to read these logs do too.

When I see "my boy" set me up with "product x" for a sponsored log (cycle) and then a few pages down, your read "my [other] boy" set me up with "product y" for sponsored log (pct), then "my [other] boy" set me up with......"sponsored log". We have some of these 'click' running weeks of cycles and weeks of pct in the name of "sponsored logs".

I mean no disrespect when I say this so don't mistake it for an insult please - but it does not take a genius to see that reps "x" is a supplement whore who whores himself around this board for products for "logging purposes". Whether it is true or not (I can't argue it because I have no proof nor do I need any really) there is a VERY strong appearance of such. I am not the only one who see it. It is very obvious.

Anyone who is on this board for any time knows who they are and sees it happening. I don't believe we have an issue with "rival" companies I believe we have an issue with "allied" company sponsor reps who are running a racket of using free supplement products in the name of "sponsored logs".

Again, no disrespect directed at you, so please just read this as my opinion FWIW and it is nothing more than that. I have no interest in the products really and am only an administrator who just happens to see EVERYTHING that goes on and has seen this appearance and trend taking place recently (remember SDNG fiasco) and now we have this with the 3-AD logs.

In this case and in the other it has zero to do with the efficacy of the product in question. It is the method in how it is exposed to the market base (this board) and the means of "popular personalities" that are used to do so.

BTW...I have read none of the reviews or logs (God can you read through those threads without closing your browser before you are two or three posts into it) but I know MC is very capable. As a matter of fact you are looking at the senior (as in age) SD beta tester for the original DS SD. That was my last and best log on this board. I still log (personal) everything I do because that is how you learn and make progress. But I don't have anyone to market my self to either ;)

Really, at the end of the day my opinion (negative or positive) nor anyone else's on this board really matters. There is a whole world of market outside of this cyber space we live in here who will be fortunate to come across your products. You will surely be successful with your target market and I wish you and AX all the best luck. I mean that sincerely.

BTW - I am not really that important to this board, it's members or this industry that my opinion really makes a matter one way or the other. If you didn't already know that we can keep that between us two :D
 
ecu19

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$40 could afford you 24 weeks of 'steroids'.
OR you could go cow hunting and steal the tren ear buds off of them and get trenbolone acetate for FREE :rofl:

I saw the 99 dollar price for 3-ad and did a double take!
 
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T-AD

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Really, at the end of the day my opinion (negative or positive) nor anyone else's on this board really matters. There is a whole world of market outside of this cyber space we live in here who will be fortunate to come across your products. You will surely be successful with your target market and I wish you and AX all the best luck. I mean that sincerely.

BTW - I am not really that important to this board, it's members or this industry that my opinion really makes a matter one way or the other. If you didn't already know that we can keep that between us two :D
I respect you even more now, B! Honestly, there is so much going on outside of the boards that we have no idea about. To me, my only hope is that some of the people out in the world will sign up on these boards and begin to ask questions in order to get educated on what products they are about to use. I have no access to people who just buy on their own, and that is sometimes the part that scares me most. If I could, and not to sound high and mighty about things, but I would much rather have a small personal consult with everyone before buying anything. Whether it be in a thread or PM, it still would mean that they are atleast trying to know what they are doing.

As for testing, I did the supplement whore thing, and I'm not ashamed to say it. But it was after I grew out of that (and consequently got away from that other board) when I really started to learn.

To say that there are cliques around here is probably true, but I don't know that any of them have asked me to join. ;) I still know very few people, and almost nobody personally. Anonymity sometimes has its merit, and I guess in some light, it could be an unbiased merit.

Que sera, sera....
 
T-Bone

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i think the issue that I have, and I believe that the others who are observant have is not so much choosing to conduct sponsored testing or logging. It is the choice of candidate. Anyone who has been around this board long enough knows the 'click' of sponsors on this board (gosh...when you guys were green there were pages and pages of threads comprised entirely of green user names). There are a few clicks within the groups comprised of various sponsor reps. I know who they are, you know who they are and anyone with eyes open enough to read these logs do too.

When I see "my boy" set me up with "product x" for a sponsored log (cycle) and then a few pages down, your read "my [other] boy" set me up with "product y" for sponsored log (pct), then "my [other] boy" set me up with......"sponsored log". We have some of these 'click' running weeks of cycles and weeks of pct in the name of "sponsored logs".

I mean no disrespect when I say this so don't mistake it for an insult please - but it does not take a genius to see that reps "x" is a supplement whore who whores himself around this board for products for "logging purposes". Whether it is true or not (I can't argue it because I have no proof nor do I need any really) there is a VERY strong appearance of such. I am not the only one who see it. It is very obvious.

Anyone who is on this board for any time knows who they are and sees it happening. I don't believe we have an issue with "rival" companies I believe we have an issue with "allied" company sponsor reps who are running a racket of using free supplement products in the name of "sponsored logs".

Again, no disrespect directed at you, so please just read this as my opinion FWIW and it is nothing more than that. I have no interest in the products really and am only an administrator who just happens to see EVERYTHING that goes on and has seen this appearance and trend taking place recently (remember SDNG fiasco) and now we have this with the 3-AD logs.

In this case and in the other it has zero to do with the efficacy of the product in question. It is the method in how it is exposed to the market base (this board) and the means of "popular personalities" that are used to do so.

BTW...I have read none of the reviews or logs (God can you read through those threads without closing your browser before you are two or three posts into it) but I know MC is very capable. As a matter of fact you are looking at the senior (as in age) SD beta tester for the original DS SD. That was my last and best log on this board. I still log (personal) everything I do because that is how you learn and make progress. But I don't have anyone to market my self to either ;)

Really, at the end of the day my opinion (negative or positive) nor anyone else's on this board really matters. There is a whole world of market outside of this cyber space we live in here who will be fortunate to come across your products. You will surely be successful with your target market and I wish you and AX all the best luck. I mean that sincerely.

BTW - I am not really that important to this board, it's members or this industry that my opinion really makes a matter one way or the other. If you didn't already know that we can keep that between us two :D

Your the best B!. I've noticed the same things you have for at least the past 2 years or so, more so this year. The same members loging products from the same companies. Also what is really annoying are those long "contest" threads. I too, can not stand to read through more than a page of any of the logs, especially the sponsered ones. Really I don't read any of them at all. Sure this can be a great board, but lately all it is a huge "billboard" for supplement companies to pedal there wares. It does work though for the targeted market of supplement companies 18-25 year olds. Just look at those "check out my supplement stash!" threads!.
 
DreamWeaver

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I have been able to see without much effort that there definitely is an alliance of good will between the various companies on this board. I actually think this is is a much easier environment to learn about the various products. Go over to the other site where they're constantly bickering and try to figure out what products are a good buy. It does not take long untill there into a level of mumbo jumbo where I have no idea what there talking about anymore.

Here yes there is some cooperation but this "board" encourages freedom of opinion. So by being able to read between the lines and the honesty of the members I have been able to purchase only supps that I believe work well for me. Yes I will wait for unsponsored logs before purchasing something. It's not that I don't trust these logs it's just good to get a second opinion. I also find that the hightened enthusiasm can highten the placebo effect of a product and it's good to let the air clear.

The one thing I do have problems with is that these hyped logs get so cluttered with banter that I find it next to impossible to get any meat out of them. I usually give up after a few pages. I find myself avoiding threads with 10 or more pages. I mean if after 5 days on a cylcle a person has 6 or 7 pages of posts that means a low percentage of actual information.
 
T-Bone

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Another thing is these people doing logs are usually taking about 10-15 other products also. Then they proceed to tell people that the results are coming from this one new product???? Yeah right!.
 

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Sponsor reps logging and 'testing' other sponsor product. It's a nice little racket these guys have going on here with eachother. It is getting to the point that it is ridiculous. Serioulsy ridiculous. I'm embarrased at what this has turned into. It's a shame really.

Wow B5150. I'm impressed you'd say such a thing. Here I am, I thought I was the only one who felt this way.

The floodgates have now opened.
 
B5150

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I respect you even more now, B!


To say that there are cliques around here is probably true, but I don't know that any of them have asked me to join. ;)
Last night in my attempt at sleep [well you know how you go rooming in your head some times] I said...dude click is what you do with a mouse ;) . Now as I am typing this I realize...dude, a mouse is a rodent...there is no click(ing). :D

What do you say we start our own clique? God knows I'm clique free.

If we join up together I'm going to need you to be careful not to tarnish my pleasant, passive and amiable reputation.

You in?



Damn good footage man!
 
Iron Lungz

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A clique against clique's... Count me IN! :D

Last night in my attempt at sleep [well you know how you go rooming in your head some times] I said...dude click is what you do with a mouse ;) . Now as I am typing this I realize...dude, a mouse is a rodent...there is no click(ing). :D

What do you say we start our own clique? God knows I'm clique free.

If we join up together I'm going to need you to be careful not to tarnish my pleasant, passive and amiable reputation.

You in?



Damn good footage man!
 
Hank Vangut

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lol. you guys crack me up.

product logs are just marketing.......nothing more.

can you say you enjoy tv commercials?
does anyone enjoy viewing marketing? no. - but it is effective!

these logs are effective marekting tools because they are 20 pages and get 10,000 views.

the product reps understand this and tailor their log to attract interaction and participation and get people and viewers in. it's gone this direction because it works in pushing product.

once in awhile you get a new guy (non-rep) chosen to log a procuct and the log is 3 pages and has only 200 views.
only a few people will even know what that product is or does?
 
DreamWeaver

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Actually I get more out of those kind of logs.
 
B5150

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lol. you guys crack me up.

product logs are just marketing.......nothing more.

can you say you enjoy tv commercials?
does anyone enjoy viewing marketing? no. - but it is effective!

these logs are effective marekting tools because they are 20 pages and get 10,000 views.

the product reps understand this and tailor their log to attract interaction and participation and get people and viewers in. it's gone this direction because it works in pushing product.

once in awhile you get a new guy (non-rep) chosen to log a procuct and the log is 3 pages and has only 200 views.
only a few people will even know what that product is or does?
Yeah, and the issue that some have is the PUSHING of product. Effective at what? Some of us are intelligent enough to see what is going on and are sort of offended by the PUSHING tactic. I gather that the market you are pushing to may be slightly less observant, naive and ignorant and need something pushed on them to know that "this is really what they need". In some circles it is called exploitation. Some don't enjoy it. Some turn of the TV because of it. Some are taken in.

Consider for a second that 9,900 views are members who cannot wade through all the nonsense (subscribe, I'm in bro, in the hizzie, fo shizzle, i'd hit that, homo, fag) on the first page.

We can argue the point all day. If you are comfortable with offending 50% of the 'audience' in order to score the other 50% than you are 100% successful.
 
Iron Lungz

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Yeah, and the issue that some have is the PUSHING of product. Effective at what? Some of us are intelligent enough to see what is going on and are sort of offended by the PUSHING tactic. I gather that the market you are pushing to may be slightly less observant, naive and ignorant and need something pushed on them to know that "this is really what they need". In some circles it is called exploitation. Some don't enjoy it. Some turn of the TV because of it. Some are taken in.

Consider for a second that 9,900 views are members who cannot wade through all the nonsense (subscribe, I'm in bro, in the hizzie, fo shizzle, i'd hit that, homo, fag) on the first page.

We can argue the point all day. If you are comfortable with offending 50% of the 'audience' in order to score the other 50% than you are 100% successful.
Agreed.
 

jsp0882

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if i company wants to do a real log why not just offer the sale of the product to certain people before the regular sale of the product. this way you'll write whatever you want because u actually paid for the product instead of getting a free gift. i'm sure there would have been plenty of people willing to pay full price for say recreate before it came out publicly to test it. and if the company is a respectful company and believes in their products then they should have no problem with this.
 
T-AD

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What do you say we start our own clique? God knows I'm clique free.

If we join up together I'm going to need you to be careful not to tarnish my pleasant, passive and amiable reputation.
Here's to the formation of the NCA - Non-Clique Alliance.

Qualifications:

-Must be friendly to all, yet grumpy regardless.
-Must be willing to sacrifice personal indignity for the sake of individuality.
-Must be honest, to the point of brutality.
-Must avoid bro-speak, bro-science, and bro-logic.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Logs are logs and there will always be logs as long as there are sponsors. Will I expect AX to stop? Will I leave them because they continue? Nope. Is it marketing? Perhaps. But there if there is a bit of merit in seeing a sponsored log, it is that they may be the doorway in for people to begin to learn about a product, a training style, or a particular "something" that they didn't know before. Once again, I push it - EDUCATION, EDUCATION, EDUCATION!! Whatever gets them to open the book to Chapter 1 is just fine by me. :D

:welcome: to my school of thought... :wave:
 
TheUnlikelyToad

TheUnlikelyToad

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To me, my only hope is that some of the people out in the world will sign up on these boards and begin to ask questions in order to get educated on what products they are about to use.

So what happens when consumers ask legitimate questions and they never get answered? Or if a consumer becomes fearful to continually raise questions because we are in a sue happy society and a consumer could potentially be viewed as a company basher and get caught in a Syntrap?
 
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