The #1 Cortisol Blocker - AnabolicMinds.com - Page 8

The #1 Cortisol Blocker

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    Yeah it would provide over-training protection and testosterone support in virtually any PCT.

    -Eric

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trauma1 View Post
    Yeah, absolutely. The whole TRS stack would work really well for you here. I've used halo in the past myself (loved it; especially as a recomper), and my PCT recovery went well. The use of EndoAmp Max will offer its benefits on recovery that will definitely help you to maintain what you've gained.
    Quote Originally Posted by Primordial Perf View Post
    Yeah it would provide over-training protection and testosterone support in virtually any PCT.

    -Eric
    sweet sounds great. I need help on my PCT, I really have it to a point if you know what I mean, I know the basic SERM (Nolva) Test Booster (not sure which one to run this time, maybe Diesel or Lean Extreme) what Im not sure on is cortisol and A.I. and estrogen. My cycle is prob going to be
    Hdrol:75/75/100/100/110-125?
    Furaguno:200/200/200/300/300/300
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnyq View Post
    dynomite is a bull**** elitist who ran some poorly planned cycles and now he doesn't have a libido and is pissed at the world for it. I don't blame him for being upset, but he should concentrate on the real cause and look inwards.


    experimenting is entirely different then using, so says dynomiiiiiiiiiiiiiiite




    but ya, attack PP because they make a nice natural product with a host of health benefits, thats a good way to make yourself feel better. (and I do agree that its hard to navigate through rep BS on the forums sometimes, but its a business. Go to a non sponsored forum if you really cant stand it I guess).
    Johny, you are partially correct. I ran a few cycles of M1T a while back(about 5 years ago). They were not poorly planned. I had heard about PS/PHs on this forum and listened to the reps and all the other brotelligence. I was young and willing to trust the "respected memebers". It took a long time for me to get back to normal. I would not wish that upon anyone. I am in no way an elitest. In my opinion the Repping on here is out of hand.

    Lets pretend for a second that the theory behind these products will work if used with pharmaceutical grade compounds. The problem arises that these companies pretend that they have cutting edge manufacturing facilities making their products. In reality they get a bunch of powder from China, order a bunch of bottles, slap the labels on em and voila! You got cortisol blocking compounds that is garunteed results, just ask the tester.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dynomite View Post
    Johny, you are partially correct. I ran a few cycles of M1T a while back(about 5 years ago). They were not poorly planned. I had heard about PS/PHs on this forum and listened to the reps and all the other brotelligence. I was young and willing to trust the "respected memebers". It took a long time for me to get back to normal. I would not wish that upon anyone. I am in no way an elitest. In my opinion the Repping on here is out of hand.

    Lets pretend for a second that the theory behind these products will work if used with pharmaceutical grade compounds. The problem arises that these companies pretend that they have cutting edge manufacturing facilities making their products. In reality they get a bunch of powder from China, order a bunch of bottles, slap the labels on em and voila! You got cortisol blocking compounds that is garunteed results, just ask the tester.
    so both of yall are saying Primordial Perf and the products mentioned on AM are bull$hit???
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    Quote Originally Posted by KgTomCat View Post
    so both of yall are saying Primordial Perf and the products mentioned on AM are bull$hit???
    Far from it! PrimordialPerformance is top notch, and AnabolicMinds has great sponsors with excellent products.
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    Quote Originally Posted by strategicmove View Post
    Far from it! PrimordialPerformance is top notch, and AnabolicMinds has great sponsors with excellent products.
    i agree, pp has been very innovative. i've only used dermacrine and it was everything it was advertised to be, but i have been interested in sustain for some time now. btw as for endoamp-ps was touted as a brain function enhancer long before it was discovered to lower cortisol. the ps you will find on the shelves at health food stores is more expensive and quality and amount of extract is not nearly as high. just another benefit of ps. pp is one of the good guy's-so lay off steve. pick on a more deserving company....
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primordial Perf View Post
    So its sounds like you understand the benefit of phospholipids? And you can agree that they are an important nutrient vital for the repair and function of the body? Are you also aware that you would have to eat about 50 eggs to get the same dose of PS found in EndoAmp Max?

    -Eric
    If you read my earlier posts in this thread..i personally recommend inexpensive fish oil .....rather than this ..thats for sure. That way ..the body can self regulate. Why cant you give straight answers Eric ...RE: tests etc ? Tests on YOUR product specifically? Also straight answers RE: what are "therapeutic" levels of a hormone our body adjusts levels of regularly to control vital bodily functions? Honestly the 20 min spike of cortisol...in the placebo group ...you are REALLY going to say thats detrimental ? *L* are you serious? Especially given the other effects cortisol exerts on the body ...not only wont it make a damn bit of diff re: recovery ...it will benefit in other areas. How many times do i need to post the info on cortisol and what it TRULY does ???
    Funny thing is we've been focusing on this (cortisol) so much its become easy to skip over the minimal increase in test and how that wont do a damn thing either! Also the GH claims which are ridiculous as well. My goodness all 3 factors you claim in this product are beneficial - are essentially useless and meaningless for our (or anyones for that matter) purposes !
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    Quote Originally Posted by steveironman View Post
    If you read my earlier posts in this thread..i personally recommend inexpensive fish oil .....rather than this ..thats for sure. That way ..the body can self regulate. Why cant you give straight answers Eric ...RE: tests etc ? Tests on YOUR product specifically? Also straight answers RE: what are "therapeutic" levels of a hormone our body adjusts levels of regularly to control vital bodily functions? Honestly the 20 min spike of cortisol...in the placebo group ...you are REALLY going to say thats detrimental ? *L* are you serious? Especially given the other effects cortisol exerts on the body ...not only wont it make a damn bit of diff re: recovery ...it will benefit in other areas. How many times do i need to post the info on cortisol and what it TRULY does ???
    Funny thing is we've been focusing on this (cortisol) so much its become easy to skip over the minimal increase in test and how that wont do a damn thing either! Also the GH claims which are ridiculous as well. My goodness all 3 factors you claim in this product are beneficial - are essentially useless and meaningless for our (or anyones for that matter) purposes !


    If Im raising my test levels, why do you say "all 3 factors you claim in this product are beneficial - are essentially useless and meaningless for our (or anyones for that matter) purposes!"
    -wouldn't I need EndoAmp Max??
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    ^^^^^^^ ???? no ONE needs this product IMO. Its a total waste and not prudent at all !!!!!
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    This is getting really boring!
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    Quote Originally Posted by steveironman View Post
    ^^^^^^^ ???? no ONE needs this product IMO. Its a total waste and not prudent at all !!!!!
    yeah man , you made your point now:
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    Quote Originally Posted by steveironman View Post
    ^^^^^^^ ???? no ONE needs this product IMO. Its a total waste and not prudent at all !!!!!
    is there any scientific research/lab reports that prove its useful??
    Quote Originally Posted by strategicmove View Post
    This is getting really boring!
    no it not. Im worried about my health, I want the best for it
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    Quote Originally Posted by KgTomCat View Post
    is there any scientific research/lab reports that prove its useful??

    no it not. Im worried about my health, I want the best for it
    It is getting boring to read about a claim that some product is useless, based on certain skewed assumptions. You should certainly worry about your health as much as you should worry about conclusions reached on the basis of lopsided science! Why don't you take a break from this thread, and Google Phosphatidylserine, Alpha-GPC, and Cortisol. Read about the serious health consequences of elevated cortisol levels from neutral sources. When you are done, you might see this whole thread differently. In simple terms, yes, cortisol is important. No one here seriously advocates cortisol annihilation! The point is that nature accepts brief spikes in cortisol levels, as long as they return to baseline rapidly. A combination of different physiological and physical stressors, however, can create a condition of elevated cortisol levels that remain stubbornly higher than baseline. No one can seriously argue that this abnormality does not induce metabolic problems. That is why control of high cortisol levels is necessary. Anyway, do not believe a word of what I write. Do your own independent research!
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    ps is believed to facilitate the repair of the cortisol receptors in hypothalamus, because of this it is useful in correcting high or low cortisol levels, it is also useful in preventing short term memory loss. just google cortisol and a ton of stuff comes up-and ps is mentioned in many. eric i have a question-why didn't you use td delivery as research says it is more effective.
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    Quote Originally Posted by strategicmove View Post
    It is getting boring to read about a claim that some product is useless, based on certain skewed assumptions. You should certainly worry about your health as much as you should worry about conclusions reached on the basis of lopsided science! Why don't you take a break from this thread, and Google Phosphatidylserine, Alpha-GPC, and Cortisol. Read about the serious health consequences of elevated cortisol levels from neutral sources. When you are done, you might see this whole thread differently. In simple terms, yes, cortisol is important. No one here seriously advocates cortisol annihilation! The point is that nature accepts brief spikes in cortisol levels, as long as they return to baseline rapidly. A combination of different physiological and physical stressors, however, can create a condition of elevated cortisol levels that remain stubbornly higher than baseline. No one can seriously argue that this abnormality does not induce metabolic problems. That is why control of high cortisol levels is necessary. Anyway, do not believe a word of what I write. Do your own independent research!
    then what is your solution to someone who takes PH's for bodybuilding purposes?
    to not worry about cortisol?...if it returns to 'normal baseline' then why worry? right?
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    Quote Originally Posted by KgTomCat View Post
    then what is your solution to someone who takes PH's for bodybuilding purposes?
    to not worry about cortisol?...if it returns to 'normal baseline' then why worry? right?
    1) Re-read your original response that triggered my own response.
    2) Re-read my response.
    Then:
    3) Re-read your current questions. You may agree they are hard to comprehend. In fact, they are more accurately posed to steveironman, due to his position that cortisol should not be managed.
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    just a little excerpt from a study posted above-

    Weight-Training
    A 1998 study conducted at California State University investigated the effect of PS on hormone levels, muscle soreness and feelings of well-being when administered to experienced weight-trained athletes [37]. During the two-week training period, 11 weight-trained athletes (aged 22.8 ± 3.4 years) consumed either a placebo or 800 mg of S-PS per day (double-blind, cross-over design). The weight training program was designed to overtrain the subjects. Subjects were instructed to use as much weight as possible for each exercise and to train as hard as possible for 4 days a week during each 2 week training period. Subjective measures, such as perception of well-being and muscle soreness were recorded throughout the training period. Athletes had less muscle soreness when they were taking S-PS compared to the placebo (see figure 7).

    Figure 7. PS supplementation significantly improves muscle soreness [37].

    In addition, subjects had an improved perception of well-being when taking S-PS, this was particularly evident after the first week of training (see figure 8).

    Figure 8. PS supplementation significantly improves well-being [37].

    Doesnt sound "useless" to me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by daft205 View Post
    just a little excerpt from a study posted above-

    Weight-Training
    A 1998 study conducted at California State University investigated the effect of PS on hormone levels, muscle soreness and feelings of well-being when administered to experienced weight-trained athletes [37]. During the two-week training period, 11 weight-trained athletes (aged 22.8 ± 3.4 years) consumed either a placebo or 800 mg of S-PS per day (double-blind, cross-over design). The weight training program was designed to overtrain the subjects. Subjects were instructed to use as much weight as possible for each exercise and to train as hard as possible for 4 days a week during each 2 week training period. Subjective measures, such as perception of well-being and muscle soreness were recorded throughout the training period. Athletes had less muscle soreness when they were taking S-PS compared to the placebo (see figure 7).

    Figure 7. PS supplementation significantly improves muscle soreness [37].

    In addition, subjects had an improved perception of well-being when taking S-PS, this was particularly evident after the first week of training (see figure 8).

    Figure 8. PS supplementation significantly improves well-being [37].

    Doesnt sound "useless" to me.
    so it improves muscle soreness and well being...does this mean they broke down more muscle? hence the soreness or they lifted more because they were in a better mindset? or both?
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    Quote Originally Posted by strategicmove View Post
    1) Re-read your original response that triggered my own response.
    2) Re-read my response.
    Then:
    3) Re-read your current questions. You may agree they are hard to comprehend. In fact, they are more accurately posed to steveironman, due to his position that cortisol should not be managed.
    okay, I understand cortisol is important, but I asked if there was evidence on the matter (of is EndoAmp Max is pointless) you said, "The point is that nature accepts brief spikes in cortisol levels, as long as they return to baseline rapidly. A combination of different physiological and physical stressors, however, can create a condition of elevated cortisol levels that remain stubbornly higher than baseline."
    -which I understand. Then I asked what is your solution to the change in cortisol? I may be asking the wrong person this question...maybe steveironman, sorry
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    Quote Originally Posted by strategicmove View Post
    1) Re-read your original response that triggered my own response.
    2) Re-read my response.
    Then:
    3) Re-read your current questions. You may agree they are hard to comprehend. In fact, they are more accurately posed to steveironman, due to his position that cortisol should not be managed.
    Cortisol is managed ..naturally within our body ..by good diet, pwo nutrition , and nartural body processes, etc....to artificially mess with a hormone that has vital beneficial benefits is foolish ...esp when a 20 min increase in it PWO is not only not detrimental..its prob necessary as state for bp mangement , effects on insulin, and more..... THATS what i said....
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    Its incredible how bull headed some people can be.
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    Quote Originally Posted by steveironman View Post
    If you read my earlier posts in this thread..i personally recommend inexpensive fish oil .....rather than this ..thats for sure. That way ..the body can self regulate.
    The fish oil theory is bogus, as we have already established. Commercial fish oil capsules have had all the phospholipid content removed to maximize the omega-3 DHA/EPA content. You will not get the same phopholipid content from fish oil (even unrefined fish oil) and there is no research to support that fish oil provides the same benefits as PS supplementation.

    Quote Originally Posted by steveironman View Post
    Why cant you give straight answers Eric ...RE: tests etc ? Tests on YOUR product specifically?
    Again, we use the exact same dose (and brand) of PS and Alpha-GPC used in the published studies that demonstrate the benefits. It practically is our product!

    Quote Originally Posted by steveironman View Post
    Also straight answers RE: what are "therapeutic" levels of a hormone our body adjusts levels of regularly to control vital bodily functions?
    20-30 ug/dl would be considered the lower level of a healthy range of cortisol (enough for glucose management and anti-inflammatory effects), while 80-90 ug/dl would be indicative of high cortisol from excessive physical or mental stress or insufficient nutrition.

    PS prevents this unnecessary spike in cortisol to the higher levels which would otherwise catabolize muscle and testicular tissue. This is not something you want if your goal is to support the highest possible level of protein retention and testosterone production.

    Quote Originally Posted by steveironman View Post
    Honestly the 20 min spike of cortisol...in the placebo group ...you are REALLY going to say thats detrimental ? *L* are you serious?
    Yes, that is what Im saying. That spike in cortisol is unnecessary and detrimental to recovery and muscle growth. If the body has sufficient phospholipid (PS) concentration in the body, then it prevents this over- compensatory cortisol spike.

    I say the spike in cortisol was unnecessary because the individuals in the PS group did not have adverse performance as a result of lack of cortisol (eg, glucose levels) nor did they have any negative side-effects.

    Again, the only "vital" or "good" function of elevated cortisol during exercise is to increase blood glucose levels by breaking down muscle proteins -- aka the flight or fight response from running from a bear and needing a quick energy source. However, most bodybuilders and athletes have plenty of energy for exersize and glucose available in the liver, where the rise in cortisol is not needed and is only detrimental to overall performance.

    Quote Originally Posted by steveironman View Post
    Especially given the other effects cortisol exerts on the body ...not only wont it make a damn bit of diff re: recovery ...it will benefit in other areas.
    Actually, it does make a damn difference. Preventing the spike in cortisol decreases recovery time and muscle soreness, allowing an athlete to perform better.

    Here are several reffs -

    HORMONAL EFFECTS OF PHOSPHATIDYLSERINE DURING 2-WKS OF INTENSE WEIGHT TRAINING
    [Annual Meeting Abstracts]
    Fahey, T. D.; Pearl, M.
    California State University, Chico

    Effects of phosphatidylserine on exercise capacity during cycling in active males.
    Kingsley et al.
    Med Sci Sports Exerc 2006, 38(I):64-71

    Blunting by chronic phosphatidylserine administration of the stress-induced activation of the hypothalamo-pituitary-adrenal axis in healthy men.
    Monteleone et al.
    Eur J Clin Pharmacol 1992, 42(4):385-388

    Phospholipids and sports performance.
    R Jager, et al.
    J Int Soc Sports Nutr, Jan 2007; 4: 5

    The effects of soy phosphatidylserine on cortisol, growth hormone and testosterone response to moderate intensity exercise.
    Starks, et al.
    University of Mississippi

    The hormonal and perceptive effects of phosphatidylserine administration during two weeks of weight training-induced over-training.
    Fayey TD, et al.
    Biol Sport 1998, 15(2): 135-144

    The effects of phosphatidyl serine on markers of muscular stress in endurance runners.
    Fernholz et al.
    Med Sci Sports Exerc 2000, 32(5):S321


    Quote Originally Posted by steveironman View Post
    How many times do i need to post the info on cortisol and what it TRULY does ???
    You dont need too. I think you've repeated every opinion you've made on this thread over a dozen times.

    Quote Originally Posted by steveironman View Post
    Funny thing is we've been focusing on this (cortisol) so much its become easy to skip over the minimal increase in test and how that wont do a damn thing either!
    Minimal or not, any natural bodybuilder or athlete is going to benefit from improving their testosterone to cortisol ratio. (Just check out the above references... and read a bit about GH, T and cortisol)

    If you believe the contrary you've got quite a case to prove.

    (FYI, you should start posting reffs and studies that show the testosterone to cortisol ratio "wont do a damn thing" in athletes and bodybuilders because the ranting and ramble has gotten you about as far as its going to)

    Quote Originally Posted by steveironman View Post
    Also the GH claims which are ridiculous as well.
    Nope, they are quite real. I suggest you read this study -

    Acute supplementation with alpha-glycerylphosphorylcholine augments growth hormone response to and peak force production during resistance exercise
    Ziegenfuss et al.
    J Int Soc Sports Nutr, Jun 2008 5(Suppl 1): P15


    BTW, if you want to see the full text I can post it up. Also, if you have conspiracy theory's about a researchers being paid off to publish false information please post references to support your comments.

    Quote Originally Posted by steveironman View Post
    My goodness all 3 factors you claim in this product are beneficial - are essentially useless and meaningless for our (or anyones for that matter) purposes !
    You have provided zero references for your theories and negative comments.

    EndoAmp Max will do exactly what we claim it does. It will improve the testosterone to cortisol ratio, improve recovery, and allow an athlete to perform at a higher threshold. Weve provided over a dozen reffs to directly support these claims, and about 40 other secondary reps to back them up the general thesis.

    -Eric
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigt View Post
    ps is believed to facilitate the repair of the cortisol receptors in hypothalamus, because of this it is useful in correcting high or low cortisol levels, it is also useful in preventing short term memory loss. just google cortisol and a ton of stuff comes up-and ps is mentioned in many. eric i have a question-why didn't you use td delivery as research says it is more effective.
    Ive never seen research with PS being used in a topical to show its any better than oral. Besides, the research with oral PS is solid… so no need to change what isn’t broken.

    -Eric
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    Quote Originally Posted by KgTomCat View Post
    then what is your solution to someone who takes PH's for bodybuilding purposes?
    to not worry about cortisol?...if it returns to 'normal baseline' then why worry? right?
    When you are on cycle, cortisol is heavily antagonized (blocked) at the receptor, so it doesn’t have a chance to elicit its catabolic effects. This is one of the main methods by which AAS promote muscle growth and strength.

    So part of the theory of having “cortisol management” for PCT (eg, EndoAmp) is to minimize cortisol's catabolic effect and maintain the anabolic environment.

    Plus, cortisol can also have damaging effects to testicular tissue, which can make recovery of natural testosterone very difficult. Preventing testicular breakdown is another method by which PS can support testosterone production and further support the anabolic environment.

    -Eric
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    Quote Originally Posted by KgTomCat View Post
    so it improves muscle soreness and well being...does this mean they broke down more muscle? hence the soreness or they lifted more because they were in a better mindset? or both?
    It means the PS had lower cortisol, less catabolism and more amino acids available for recovery.

    -Eric
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    Quote Originally Posted by steveironman View Post
    Cortisol is managed ..naturally within our body ..by good diet, pwo nutrition , and nartural body processes, etc....to artificially mess with a hormone that has vital beneficial benefits is foolish ...esp when a 20 min increase in it PWO is not only not detrimental..its prob necessary as state for bp mangement , effects on insulin, and more..... THATS what i said....
    Yes, good diet, post workout nutrition and rest are all good ways to naturally manage cortisol.

    But don’t forget, EndoAmp Max is a dietary supplement… meaning it contains natural dietary nutrients to supplement the diet.

    It is no more “messing with a vital hormone” is than eating a nutrient rich meal, or taking a nap, but it can provide an additive benefit to those basic fundamental practices.

    -Eric
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    Where can I get endoamp
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    Quote Originally Posted by fezteh View Post
    Where can I get endoamp
    You probably can't anymore PP is No longer in the game. Check out reduced xt for cortisol control
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    Re: The #1 Cortisol Blocker


    Quote Originally Posted by fightbackhxc View Post
    You probably can't anymore PP is No longer in the game. Check out reduced xt for cortisol control
    Do it! Or else

    - Valdez
    Olympus Labs DemiGod And Rep ~ http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/253076-spaniards-coliseum-featuring.html~http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/220023-valdez-goes-back-29.html
  31. Diamond Member
    mr.cooper69's Avatar
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    The OP is the biggest load of pseudo-science I've ever seen. Brb extrapolating transdermal-specific effects to all cortisol control products!
    http://pescience.com/
    http://selectprotein.com/
    The above is my own opinion and does not reflect the opinion of PES
  32. New Member
    fezteh's Avatar
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    Ok thx
  

  
 

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