The #1 Cortisol Blocker

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trauma1 View Post
    1992, eh?

    Steve - You continue to perpetuate your nonesense in yet another thread. I've tried to be reasonable with you, but you continue to dig the hole you're already standing in. As i said before, i'm all for an intelligent conversation, but your approach and demeanor are far from that.

    I really don't know what's more entertaining at this point; your clear inability to research and/or comprehend the previously provided reference material, or your delusional thought processes?


    http://www.jissn.com/content/5/S1/P15
    ANSWER THE QUESTIONS ???? thats all just answer them ... *L*...this is criminal...like i said a BS Ziegenfuss study ...who's back pocket is he in ...oh 3/4 of the supp industry *L* ....Answer my question ...you have an extensive science background according to you...just answer them ????

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    Quote Originally Posted by steveironman View Post
    ANSWER THE QUESTIONS ???? thats all just answer them ... *L*...this is criminal...like i said a BS Ziegenfuss study ...who's back pocket is he in ...oh 3/4 of the supp industry *L* ....Answer my question ...you have an extensive science background according to you...just answer them ????


    Your agenda is beyond transparent here. Best of luck with your current delusional quest, steve. When and if you decide to engage in a more articulate and structured conversation for the purposes of education, let me know.

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    ^^huh thats what i thought...cant answer them. Oh well ...hope people see this product for what it really is....useless ... i asked legitimate questions...question you KNOW you cant answer.....questions that would show your product to be what it is ...bogus.....i rest my case....
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    Only 3 more days to take part in our Click Here: Testosterone Recovery Stack
    sale, gentlemen! Make sure to use the coupon code: MAXRECOVERY when purchasing to get it for only $86.95.

    EndoAmp Max is part of this stack, so it's never been a better time to try it! If you have any questions, i'm here to assist.

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    Quote Originally Posted by steveironman View Post
    ^^huh thats what i thought...cant answer them. Oh well ...hope people see this product for what it really is....useless ... i asked legitimate questions...question you KNOW you cant answer.....questions that would show your product to be what it is ...bogus.....i rest my case....
    Useless? Which product is useless?
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    Quote Originally Posted by strategicmove View Post
    I do not rep for PrimordialPerformance. I am only a convinced and dedicated user of their products. I have used most of them, and was always thoroughly impressed.
    yeah it is abundantly clear that you guys take turns stroking each other off.

    We have over 30 different sponsors just swarming like predators, hunting as a team. And as long as there is a steady flow of dedicated, motivated, eager 18-21 year olds coming along(which there will always be), you can continue to sell ridiculous supplements like cortisol blockers.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dynomite View Post
    yeah it is abundantly clear that you guys take turns stroking each other off.
    I could not care less about your silly speculations. I do not know where you got this outrageous idea of mutual stroking from. I only contribute to discussions on products I have either tried or admire their blends. Many of PrimordialPerformance's products fall in those categories. Again, what you think and suppose is your problem. I am not here to please you.

    We have over 30 different sponsors just swarming like predators, hunting as a team.
    Apparently you have no clue how repping works, so I would not make any further comments here.

    long as there is a steady flow of dedicated, motivated, eager 18-21 year olds coming along(which there will always be), you can continue to sell ridiculous supplements like cortisol blockers.
    Go and review the science of glucocorticoid receptors, glucocorticoid action, glucocorticoid agonists, and glucocorticoid antagonists. When you are done with that, you can return to this thread to make substantive contributions devoid of outrageous speculation.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dynomite View Post
    yeah it is abundantly clear that you guys take turns stroking each other off.

    We have over 30 different sponsors just swarming like predators, hunting as a team. And as long as there is a steady flow of dedicated, motivated, eager 18-21 year olds coming along(which there will always be), you can continue to sell ridiculous supplements like cortisol blockers.
    *L* wow i 100% agree ......
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    Quote Originally Posted by strategicmove View Post
    I could not care less about your silly speculations. I do not know where you got this outrageous idea of mutual stroking from. I only contribute to discussions on products I have either tried or admire their blends. Many of PrimordialPerformance's products fall in those categories. Again, what you think and suppose is your problem. I am not here to please you.



    Apparently you have no clue how repping works, so I would not make any further comments here.



    Go and review the science of glucocorticoid receptors, glucocorticoid action, glucocorticoid agonists, and glucocorticoid antagonists. When you are done with that, you can return to this thread to make substantive contributions devoid of outrageous speculation.

    I do know how repping works. A company hires you to represent them on a forum that they sponsor. In turn we have to sift through posts that aren't really meant to help anyone other than you and your company. It is also very clear that reps work very hard to stroke each other off.

    "that is a damn fine product you got there, I gained 10 lbs on it"
    "well your product is awesome too, thanks to your cortisol blocker I had bigger hard-ons, slept great and am way more ripped"
    "well your product had me shooting massive loads and i just felt alpha, I also lost 2% bodyfat"

    the funny thing is that 3 months later these products will be forgotten because a new product will come along to takes its place. That way people will forget about the fact that the products were ineffective.

    I actually do not care about the science of glucocorticoid receptors, glucocorticoid action, glucocorticoid agonists, and glucocorticoid antagonists. So you can take that argument somwhere else. Plus I never brought up your product but since you brought it up..... I go by real life results. When you come out with a non PH/PS product that gives results as good as creatine then we can talk. Research articles do not prove anything about your product and the ingredients that you shipped in from China.
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    one other thing. I apologize if my post does not describe you exactly as it is just a generalization of how repping works in my opinion.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dynomite View Post
    I do know how repping works. A company hires you to represent them on a forum that they sponsor. In turn we have to sift through posts that aren't really meant to help anyone other than you and your company. It is also very clear that reps work very hard to stroke each other off.
    Brilliant logic that conveniently ignores the fact that two different reps can rep for two different companies with competing products.

    I actually do not care about the science of glucocorticoid receptors, glucocorticoid action, glucocorticoid agonists, and glucocorticoid antagonists. So you can take that argument somwhere else....
    Are you confused, or just struggle with comprehension skills? What is the title of this thread? Why should I take the argument elsewhere when the thread is on the subject? How could you say a product were useless if you are clueless about the science behind it?

    Plus I never brought up your product but since you brought it up.....
    I did not bring up any product of mine. Everything I wrote referred to the thread title, and to PP's product you summarily dismissed.

    I go by real life results.
    Fine! Then let us know what your experience was with PP's product you labelled as useless.

    come out with a non PH/PS product that gives results as good as creatine then we can talk. Research articles do not prove anything about your product and the ingredients that you shipped in from China.
    Wow! Keep it up!
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    Quote Originally Posted by strategicmove View Post
    Are you confused, or just struggle with comprehension skills? What is the title of this thread? Why should I take the argument elsewhere when the thread is on the subject? How could you say a product were useless if you are clueless about the science behind it?
    Im sure not confused ...and i agree with him 100%.
    Also read the thread i addressed the supposed "science" btw still waiting ...SOMEONE commited to posting in depth studies on the positive effects of lowering cortisol (an essential hormone that regulates vital body functions - yeah we should mess with that as opposed to good diet etc.....*L*). I KNOW they cant do it....because there are no commissioned studioes that suit this demographic that mean anything - bank on it. Such a sham this is......
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    Only 3 more days to take part in our Click Here: Testosterone Recovery Stack
    sale, gentlemen! Make sure to use the coupon code: MAXRECOVERY when purchasing to get it for only $86.95.

    EndoAmp Max is part of this stack, so it's never been a better time to try it! If you have any questions, i'm here to assist.

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    Quote Originally Posted by steveironman View Post
    ^^huh thats what i thought...cant answer them. Oh well ...hope people see this product for what it really is....useless ... i asked legitimate questions...question you KNOW you cant answer.....questions that would show your product to be what it is ...bogus.....i rest my case....
    What is bogus? What is a scam?

    We aren’t saying EndoAmp Max will produce 20lbs of solid lean muscle in 2 weeks… we are simply stating that this product will mitigate the rise in cortisol, and support testosterone and GH production.

    Anyone can look up the references I’ve posted to check the validity of the claims we make.

    If you believe that low testosterone levels and high cortisol levels are good for your gains in the gym, then don’t buy this product. Really simple premise.

    So do you have anymore questions?

    -Eric
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    Some more reading material:

    The effects of phosphatidylserine on endocrine response to moderate intensity exercise

    http://www.jissn.com/content/5/1/11


    Acute supplementation with alpha-glycerylphosphorylcholine augments growth hormone response to, and peak force production during, resistance exercise


    http://www.jissn.com/content/5/S1/P15


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    Quote Originally Posted by Primordial Perf View Post
    What is bogus? What is a scam?

    We aren’t saying EndoAmp Max will produce 20lbs of solid lean muscle in 2 weeks… we are simply stating that this product will mitigate the rise in cortisol, and support testosterone and GH production.

    Anyone can look up the references I’ve posted to check the validity of the claims we make.

    If you believe that low testosterone levels and high cortisol levels are good for your gains in the gym, then don’t buy this product. Really simple premise.

    So do you have anymore questions?

    -Eric
    *L* and who the HELL said the people ..on this board..eating healthily , exercising regularly...are walking around with low test levels and high cortisol levels???? What an assenine assumption based on the demographic in question. Also show me some labwork from those who have taken your product showing a marked increase in test and gh to beneficial levels for a benficial time frame (YOUR PRODUCT). Also explain again how lowering a hormone that controls vital bodily functions , such as oh blood pressure for example, is prudent ESPECIALLY post exercise? *L*God this is so ridiculous its crazy. Ill tell you what the people who shell out their own money for this....when u try it ..and its useless..just remember what you read here and tread cautiously in the future!
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    Yawn - i reiterate...why would you mess with this hormone?


    Cortisol is very important for keeping humans alive. Cortisol is responsible for maintaining our ability to process sugars, maintain our blood pressure and react to stress and illness. Cortisol helps the body respond to stress. During times of stress, cortisol levels
    increase and accelerate the breakdown of proteins to provide the fuel to maintain body functions. It acts as a physiological antagonist to insulin by promoting breakdown of carbohydrates, lipids, and proteins and so mobilizing energy reserves. In addition, immune and inflammatory cells have their responses to stress attenuated by cortisol. Cortisol is known to stimulate gluconeogenesis (creation of glucose) to ensure an adequate fuel supply. It also makes fatty acids available for metabolic use. It increases mobilization of free fatty acids, making them a more available energy source, and decreases glucose utilization, sparing it for the brain. Cortisol also acts as an anti-inflamatory agent. It depresses immune reactions, and increases the vasoconstriction caused by epinephrine.

    BTW - if you read the above carefully most of the benfits of cortisol are essetail for our purposes...essential... the body will easily keep cortisol below catabolic levels for any harmful lenght of time regardless of stress applied as long as the nutrient i talked about above are present.

    Oh and if these "manufacturers" are going to say its lower but still within theraputic levels...lets hear what those levels are...lets see the lab work proving that. How about it guys? BTW what EXACTLY is therapeutic levels of a hormone that our body regularly fluxates levels of to create homeostasis and protect our own well being in fact potentially save our lives!! (not an exaggeration) Just wondering?????
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    If you guys have any questions about the article, i'd be happy to help answer them for you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by steveironman View Post
    *L* and who the HELL said the people ..on this board..eating healthily , exercising regularly...are walking around with low test levels and high cortisol levels???? What an assenine assumption based on the demographic in question. Also show me some labwork from those who have taken your product showing a marked increase in test and gh to beneficial levels for a benficial time frame (YOUR PRODUCT). Also explain again how lowering a hormone that controls vital bodily functions , such as oh blood pressure for example, is prudent ESPECIALLY post exercise? *L*God this is so ridiculous its crazy. Ill tell you what the people who shell out their own money for this....when u try it ..and its useless..just remember what you read here and tread cautiously in the future!
    Look, I'm not here to judge you, or anyone else. I believe this subject has the potential to produce an informative discussion; however, you are acting very abrasive, and this has turned from a potential debate to pure hostility. I'm not claiming that you are ignorant. In fact, I don't know anything about you. But, Eric is a very knowledgeable individual, and he is not the type to peddle useless garbage to consumers. He has been confronted by a "certain individual" on more than one instance, and he always explains why and how he has arrived at certain scientific conclusions.
    I understand that he owns and runs a business; however, I have witnessed him help numerous people, and he is always available to address concerns. Period.
    This company has earned my respect, and that's saying something considering the supplement industry nowadays.
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    the main point of my opinion is that this forum is running rampant with reps and sponsors. I garuntee that I can look at any thread that is over 20 posts long and there will be at least one rep pimping a product.

    So my point is this Trauma, you cant point out various studies but they do not prove a darn thing about your particular product. Yeah you can say that you had a tester write a log, and magically in that log the tester gains 10 lbs of muscle and loses 5 pounds of fat i bet. The point is your word can not be trusted because you are biased. Reps are ruining this forum. For god sakes we have over thirty sponsors.

    Anyone who trusts a rep is an idiot in my opinion. Reps are doing a job on here, and if you think they are here to help you then you are sadly mistaken. They are here to make money.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dynomite View Post
    the main point of my opinion is that this forum is running rampant with reps and sponsors. I garuntee that I can look at any thread that is over 20 posts long and there will be at least one rep pimping a product.

    So my point is this Trauma, you cant point out various studies but they do not prove a darn thing about your particular product. Yeah you can say that you had a tester write a log, and magically in that log the tester gains 10 lbs of muscle and loses 5 pounds of fat i bet. The point is your word can not be trusted because you are biased. Reps are ruining this forum. For god sakes we have over thirty sponsors.

    Anyone who trusts a rep is an idiot in my opinion. Reps are doing a job on here, and if you think they are here to help you then you are sadly mistaken. They are here to make money.
    the main point of my opinion is that this forum is running rampant with reps and sponsors. I garuntee that I can look at any thread that is over 20 posts long and there will be at least one rep pimping a product.
    You're entitled to your opinion, but we all know what opinions are like.



    So my point is this Trauma, you cant point out various studies but they do not prove a darn thing about your particular product.
    Really? Then apparently you're having a hard time comprehending the provided reference material. The information that has been presented supports the product claims in the write-up. If you can't see that, then i can't help you.



    Yeah you can say that you had a tester write a log, and magically in that log the tester gains 10 lbs of muscle and loses 5 pounds of fat i bet. The point is your word can not be trusted because you are biased. Reps are ruining this forum. For god sakes we have over thirty sponsors.
    Interesting conspiracy theory. Any support? Your unconventional wisdom is uncanny...



    Anyone who trusts a rep is an idiot in my opinion. Reps are doing a job on here, and if you think they are here to help you then you are sadly mistaken. They are here to make money.
    Now here's a classic demonstration of delusion in coventional logic ; do you have anything to substantiate your wild and outlandish statements? Or are you just demonstrating some apparent novel form of speculation yet again? I certainly am doing a job here....to help people out. I've done that well outside specific supplementation or product suggestions here on AM for many years. If you open your eyes and look around, you'll see that. You don't know a damn thing about me, so don't come in here and make blanket accusations without a damn shred of support to substantiate your asinine claims.

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    dynomite is a bull**** elitist who ran some poorly planned cycles and now he doesn't have a libido and is pissed at the world for it. I don't blame him for being upset, but he should concentrate on the real cause and look inwards.

    Quote Originally Posted by dynomite View Post
    I never did anything illegal as far as supplemenatation goes.

    like i said i can understand taking it just a couple times to see what would happen. Which is what i did. Hey life is about experiences.

    but guys who regularly take roids to be something that they are not, well those are douche bags. you know who you are
    experimenting is entirely different then using, so says dynomiiiiiiiiiiiiiiite




    but ya, attack PP because they make a nice natural product with a host of health benefits, thats a good way to make yourself feel better. (and I do agree that its hard to navigate through rep BS on the forums sometimes, but its a business. Go to a non sponsored forum if you really cant stand it I guess).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trauma1 View Post
    You're entitled to your opinion, but we all know what opinions are like.

    Really? Then apparently you're having a hard time comprehending the provided reference material. The information that has been presented supports the product claims in the write-up. If you can't see that, then i can't help you.

    Interesting conspiracy theory. Any support? Your unconventional wisdom is uncanny...

    Now here's a classic demonstration of delusion in coventional logic ; do you have anything to substantiate your wild and outlandish statements? Or are you just demonstrating some apparent novel form of speculation yet again? I certainly am doing a job here....to help people out. I've done that well outside specific supplementation or product suggestions here on AM for many years. If you open your eyes and look around, you'll see that. You don't know a damn thing about me, so don't come in here and make blanket accusations without a damn shred of support to substantiate your asinine claims.
    ^^^ god even as a rep for a company you cant hold yourself to a higher standard ...always resorting to off the cuff innuendo and insults for those that disagree and point out facts and question flaws in your logic , question non applicable "studies" (that are laughable btw) and question your product in general . I sure wouldn't want anyone that trivial representing my products or company.
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    An interesting article that comes from precision nutrition's website. They do not sell PS, so that should remove some bias I would think.

    http://www.precisionnutrition.com/re...phatidylserine
    Research Review: Stess and Supplements - Should Santa take Phosphatidylserine?

    by Helen Kollias, January 9th, 2009.
    Aauugh! So much paperwork!

    Aauugh! So much paperwork!

    Many of you have heard that stress triggers your body to release cortisol, and that cortisol gives you your beer belly. Maybe that explains Santa Claus’ rotund physique. After all, if you had to meet the demands of hundreds of millions of children, deal with elvish labour issues, and wrangle several wild beasts in your annual commute, you’d probably be stressed out too.

    So what should you and Santa do? How do you get rid of the stress? Should you quit your job, leave Mrs. Claus, sell your kids, elves and reindeer? Move to an island paradise? (Who knows — maybe Santa is detoxing in the Caribbean right now.)

    The island paradise could work… until the next hurricane. Then you’d be stressed out, squirting cortisol into your veins, and trading your compact spare tire in for a tracker-sized spare tire. It seems that most of us can’t avoid experiencing at least a little stress, regardless of whether we’re at the North Pole or the equator.
    Adrenal glands. Image from NIH.

    Adrenal glands. Image from NIH.

    If you can’t stop stress, then do the next best thing: stop the stress response by suppressing cortisol levels. Cortisol is a hormone secreted by the adrenal glands (which sit on top of the kidneys) in response to stress. One of cortisol’s actions is to weaken the immune system, but it can also raise circulating glucose levels and inhibit bone resorption as well as protein and collagen synthesis. We need cortisol, but too much for too long can do some nasty stuff.

    In the last few years, a supplement called phosphatidylserine has been promoted as a cortisol suppressor that reduces abdominal fat. To give credit where credit is due, Charles Poliquin was one of the first to promote phosphatidylserine in his Biosignature course to specifically target “umbilical” fat, or fat around your belly button.

    But first things first. Before we get too far ahead of ourselves we need to know whether phosphatidylserine actually suppresses cortisol in a stressful situation, such as exercise. Which brings me to this week’s research review…

    Starks, Michael, et al. The effect of phosphatidylserine on endocrine response to moderate intensity exercise. Journal of the International Society of Sports Nutrition 5, no. 11 (2008).

    Participants

    The study sample was relatively small: ten young healthy males, who were:

    • 26 ± 1.5 years old
    • 89.3 ± 4.7 kg (about 195 lbs on average)
    • 176.8 ± 2.7 cm (about 5′8″ on average)

    Like many studies that look at supplements in a non-disease state, the subjects of this study were university age -– most likely graduate students. Why? Easy recruitment.

    You see, the studies are usually run by graduate students and they ask their fellow graduate students to take part in their study. In return, the researchers will participate in the other grad students’ studies. This means that pretty much the same group is in all the studies from that department in that time period. Needless to say, the results may not be universally applicable.
    Testing

    Step 1: Establish a baseline

    Before the researchers started the phosphatidylserine supplementation, they tested all the participants for their maximum ability to use oxygen, or VO2 max, with a bike. This is a very common test that uses either a bike or a treadmill and a gas collection apparatus to measure how much oxygen participants consume. In the beginning, the given exercise is easy and progressively gets more and more difficult until subjects can’t continue. Then researchers analyze the data and figure out the maximum amount of oxygen used. The exact number isn’t important for the study, but rather a tool to figure out the appropriate level for exercise testing. In a way it’s similar to a one repetition maximum in strength training.

    For those who are interested, the average VO2 max for the participants was 29.0±2.2 ml/kg/min -– not impressive at all. (Looks like this particular group of grad students was more brains than brawn.)

    As an aside, many believe it’s this VO2 max test that has led to so much more research done on aerobic exercise than resistance exercise. VO2 max can’t be influenced by how much you want it or how motivated you are. With the testing you can tell if someone hasn’t pushed themselves hard enough, while with resistance exercise you can’t.

    Step 2: First round of phosphatidylserine to group 1

    Once researchers figured out a starting VO2 max, they gave participants either 600 mg of soy-based phosphatidylserine or a maltodextrin placebo for 10 days and then tested their VO2 max again.

    Step 3: Second round of phosphatidylserine to group 2

    After the first round of testing the participants that were on the phosphatidylserine were given placebo and retested after 10 days, while the first group given placebo were given phosphatidylserine.

    This is a “cross-over” design –- all participants get all treatments. Half get the placebo and half get the treatment first; then they “cross-over” and get the other treatment.

    Another aside: originally phosphatidylserine was extracted from cow brains (bovine cortex),1 but since the health concerns with consuming neural tissue — because of mad cow disease (bovine spongiform encephalopathy or BSE) — the industry has switched to soy-derived phosphatidylserine. With bovine cortex-derived phosphatidylserine, there was a lot of speculation that it wasn’t phosphatidylserine but rather the contaminating neural proteins that were suppressing cortisol. Since then, the study of soy-derived phosphatidylserine has proven that phosphatidylserine is effective at inhibiting cortisol.

    Step 4: Re-test VO2 max

    After the 10 days of supplementation, the participants biked for 15 minutes, starting at 65% of their maximum VO2 max, up to 85% VO2 max. This is considered moderate intensity, but enough to elicit an increase in cortisol. Blood samples were taken 30 minutes and right before exercise as well as right after, 5, 15, 25, 45 and 65 minutes after exercise.

    Turns out that cortisol levels were lower in the phosphatidylserine group throughout (before and after exercise) and the peak was blunted in the phosphatidylserine group.

    A picture is worth a thousand words, so below is the graph of cortisol blood levels in the two conditions. As you can see, the placebo group has higher cortisol levels throughout, with the biggest difference happening right after exercise. Mathematical calculations of the area under the curve show that supplementing with phosphatidylserine lead to 35% less cortisol. Peak cortisol levels were 39% lower than placebo.

    Changes in cortisol level over time: phosphatidylserine (PS; bottom line) vs placebo (top line).

    Researchers also measured subjects’ testosterone levels. And surprise, when “area under the curve” was compared, the phosphatidylserine group had higher testosterone levels.

    They also looked at lactate and growth hormone, but found no difference.
    Conclusion

    Phosphatidylserine (600 mg) per day for 10 days reduces exercise-induced cortisol levels.

    Oh, you want more. Okay.

    Based on this study phosphatidylserine supplementation can be used to reduce exercise-induced stress caused by cortisol. So what does that mean? The authors suggest that phosphatidylserine could be a treatment for over-training.

    While this study finds that testosterone is higher in the phosphatidylserine group I’d wait until a few more studies come out with the same finding. There have been other studies showing a decrease in cortisol with phosphatidylserine but no change in testosterone.2

    Here’s one other important finding: dosage. Past experiments used 800 mg of phosphatidylserine, while this study used 600 mg.2 Turns out that 600 mg is an effective dosage to inhibit cortisol and since phosphatidylserine is a bit pricey, you can save yourself 25%. Santa will have enough money to stock up at the Boxing Day sales.
    References

    1. Monteleone P, Maj M, Beinat L, Natale M, Kemali D. Blunting by chronic phosphatidylserine administration of the stress-induced activation of the hypothalamo-pituitary-adrenal axis in healthy men. Eur J Clin Pharmacol. 1992;42(4):385-8.

    2. Fahey TD, Pearl M. The hormonal and perceptive effects of phosphatidylserine administration during two weeks of resistanve exercise-induced overtraining. Biol Sport, 1998 15:135-144.

    and if you want to know more about cortisol
    http://www.precisionnutrition.com/all-about-cortisol



    Protein and carbohydrate consumption after exercise can offset the cortisol response.
    according to steve, we shouldn't eat carbs/protein after exercise because it suppresses cortisol
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    Quote Originally Posted by steveironman View Post
    ^^^ god even as a rep for a company you cant hold yourself to a higher standard ...always resorting to off the cuff innuendo and insults for those that disagree and point out facts and question flaws in your logic , question non applicable "studies" (that are laughable btw) and question your product in general . I sure wouldn't want anyone that trivial representing my products or company.
    This is your post after all the baiting you've done in this thread??????

    You're more of a tool than I thought.

    Please stop, you're making yourself look like a total ass. It's actually uncomfortable to watch.
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    Aren't there rules against all this flaming?



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    Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    Aren't there rules against all this flaming?



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    I have no bias on this subject whatsoever, but seriously, you guys are ruining this forum. People dont want to sift through your endless whinning and complaining, just to read a thread about a particular product. We know they are company selling a product and that they probably embelish a bit to do so- such is the biz. What are you the supplement police? If u dont like it then dont buy it. its simple. This isn't the "steves opinion" forum. No need to go on a crusade to prove everyone that your opinion is the right one- no on cares what you think- how could you be so self important? I honestly agree with some of what your saying, but man you really come off as bitter and juvenial in your posts- constantly bashing and then crying when you think someone has insulted you- its pathetic. oh btw, you keep saying how proven compounds like ps, and alpha- gpc are "useless"- just curious if you consider any supps not "useless".? seems like you think supss in general are bs, and if thats the case what hell are doing here? other than being a annoying disruption, that is.
    p.s. your claim that your are a md of some type is laughable. you keep crying for pp to prove its claims and substantiate them with facts. why dont you take some of your own advice and back up your claims, DR?
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    Another good read, guys:

    Phospholipids and sports performance

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    Quote Originally Posted by daft205 View Post
    I have no bias on this subject whatsoever, but seriously, you guys are ruining this forum. People dont want to sift through your endless whinning and complaining, just to read a thread about a particular product. We know they are company selling a product and that they probably embelish a bit to do so- such is the biz. What are you the supplement police? If u dont like it then dont buy it. its simple. This isn't the "steves opinion" forum. No need to go on a crusade to prove everyone that your opinion is the right one- no on cares what you think- how could you be so self important? I honestly agree with some of what your saying, but man you really come off as bitter and juvenial in your posts- constantly bashing and then crying when you think someone has insulted you- its pathetic. oh btw, you keep saying how proven compounds like ps, and alpha- gpc are "useless"- just curious if you consider any supps not "useless".? seems like you think supss in general are bs, and if thats the case what hell are doing here? other than being a annoying disruption, that is.
    p.s. your claim that your are a md of some type is laughable. you keep crying for pp to prove its claims and substantiate them with facts. why dont you take some of your own advice and back up your claims, DR?
    just curious if you consider any supps not "useless".?

    I absolutely do ..just not these bunk supps.


    your claim that your are a md of some type is laughable. you keep crying for pp to prove its claims and substantiate them with facts. why dont you take some of your own advice and back up your claims, DR?

    Im not making the bogus claims. Im not peddling a non tested product touting what it will do - the onus doesnt fall on me to prove anything. Oh and far as my phd - next time you take a major pharmaceutical product..consider this...i may have at some point been involved in the manufacturing , testing or development of the compound....considering my occupation and also the company i work for produces the largest % of prescription pharmaceuticals in the world.




    FACT - cortisol levels should not be messed with
    FACT - minimal increases in testosterone are virtually meaningless unless in a test deficient state - that is below medical therapeutically normal levels - which applies to prob less than 1% of the people on this site..if that.
    FACT - Oral supplements are useless at increasing GH to levels high enough or for a long enough duration to be of any benefit at all
    FACT - There is NO data on this product specifically or specific, proper product testing to support even ONE of these claims
    FACT - A rep / salesperson ..should never ..even in the anonymity of the internet, resort to insults or innuendo...my remarks were directed at a product not an individual. It is unprofessional....and IMO speaks to the product the person in selling..if they feel the need to lower themselves to such a level. Again i sure wouldnt , were it my company , want someone like that representing me or my products.
    FACT - I dont care what people think of me ..or my posts. Does no one see the goal here is for these guys to get the last post in trying to put a positive spin on their untested product? Is it not that transparent?
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    Quote Originally Posted by steveironman View Post
    FACT - cortisol levels should not be messed with
    So I should not do any of these things?

    Practice meditation or yoga
    eat carbs and protein after working out
    take Phosphatidylserine
    eat at regular intervals throughout the day
    get full complete and restful sleep



    This list goes on and on of things I can do that will "mess" with my cortisol levels.


    Your arguments are asinine and clearly the product of big pharma. Supplements simply cannot have the same research as a "drug", and never will. That goes for all supplements, not just this one, which has more studies backing its effectiveness than a lot of supplements out there so I have no clue why you are picking on it.
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    ^^^hmm now which one of those ISNT a natural thing to do and would possibly be considered non healthy , not a natural , common sense practice. Oh yes..it would be supplementing with PS. My arguments are from a common sense perspective...i want nothing more than what a few supp manufacturers already do from the rest...no more no less. All my education and occupation has done is given me the knowledge to see through the nonsense , lies and bs...thats it. Im not involved in the big pharma business end of things. I want unsubstantiated claims and BS ineffective products to stop. For that i will not apologize. I rest my case....
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    Quote Originally Posted by steveironman View Post
    Also show me some labwork from those who have taken your product showing a marked increase in test and gh to beneficial levels for a benficial time frame (YOUR PRODUCT).
    EndoAmp Max has the exact same brand and the exact same dose of PS and Alpha-GPC used in the studies I referenced. This is as solid and reliable as human research gets in the supplement industry.

    Quote Originally Posted by steveironman View Post
    Also explain again how lowering a hormone that controls vital bodily functions , such as oh blood pressure for example, is prudent ESPECIALLY post exercise?
    If you are afraid of lowering cortisol following exercise I suggest you stay away from food... This will ensure that cortisol will get as high as possible while you enter a catabolic state.

    Eggs and meat are a good source of phospholipids, so you should especially stay away from those foods.

    Im wondering, are you a long distance runner? Rock climber? Or perhaps a miniature vampire bat that requires the lowest body weight possible to maintain flight?

    -Eric
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primordial Perf View Post
    EndoAmp Max has the exact same brand and the exact same dose of PS and Alpha-GPC used in the studies I referenced. This is as solid and reliable as human research gets in the supplement industry.



    If you are afraid of lowering cortisol following exercise I suggest you stay away from food... This will ensure that cortisol will get as high as possible while you enter a catabolic state.

    Eggs and meat are a good source of phospholipids, so you should especially stay away from those foods.

    Im wondering, are you a long distance runner? Rock climber? Or perhaps a miniature vampire bat that requires the lowest body weight possible to maintain flight?

    -Eric

    Eric .if that's all we need to do to manage cortisol ...why would we EVER pay to take you product???? Show me the direct benefit compared to not taking it? IN black and white? Oh wait you cant....Again ..i know you prob cant say it...but on some level im sure you know it...your product isnt beneficial enough to warrant its use whatsoever...but hey again - i know u cant say that ..see the other thread. Direct yuor efforts to meaningful R&D on products that wiill work and show true benefits. Do the testing a few other companies do - do it right. Plus its kind of interesting...i got into a debate over phsopholipids and their effects on cortisol with someone regarding endoamp and they tried to dismiss my information ..until i proved them wrong...maybe you should read back over this thread.......
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    Quote Originally Posted by steveironman View Post
    Eric .if that's all we need to do to manage cortisol ...why would we EVER pay to take you product???? Show me the direct benefit compared to not taking it? IN black and white? Oh wait you cant....Again ..i know you prob cant say it...but on some level im sure you know it...your product isnt beneficial enough to warrant its use whatsoever...but hey again - i know u cant say that ..see the other thread. Direct yuor efforts to meaningful R&D on products that wiill work and show true benefits. Do the testing a few other companies do - do it right. Plus its kind of interesting...i got into a debate over phsopholipids and their effects on cortisol with someone regarding endoamp and they tried to dismiss my information ..until i proved them wrong...maybe you should read back over this thread.......
    So its sounds like you understand the benefit of phospholipids? And you can agree that they are an important nutrient vital for the repair and function of the body? Are you also aware that you would have to eat about 50 eggs to get the same dose of PS found in EndoAmp Max?

    This thread has a ton of “black and white” references for you - Nail down cortisol and blast GH & testosterone through the roof with EndoAmp Max

    Honestly, I personally use the product on a daily basis. We also have high level MMA fighters and competitive athletes that swear by the effectiveness of this product. There is more and more research coming in every month that continues to support the touted benefits of these ingredients.

    -Eric
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    Primordial Perf,
    would you suggest EndoAmp Max for cortisol control in PCT of a Hdrol cycle, being that Hdrol is mildy suppressive?
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    Quote Originally Posted by KgTomCat View Post
    Primordial Perf,
    would you suggest EndoAmp Max for cortisol control in PCT of a Hdrol cycle, being that Hdrol is mildy suppressive?
    Yeah, absolutely. The whole TRS stack would work really well for you here. I've used halo in the past myself (loved it; especially as a recomper), and my PCT recovery went well. The use of EndoAmp Max will offer its benefits on recovery that will definitely help you to maintain what you've gained.

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