- 04-07-2008, 07:43 PM
Hey everyone. I am new to this site and am just getting back into bodybuilding after not having lifted in about 3 years. I never had much results when lifting in the past and am determined to succeed and meet my goals this time! I am thinking about taking Havoc, but I know little about it. Can anyone here help me out? I want to get bigger fast, but I don't want to take any steroids or anything that can be bad for my overall health. Thanks!Trumpet Legend
The Man, The Myth, The Legend!!!
- 04-07-2008, 07:49 PM
Please do some research. Havoc is a steroid.
- 04-07-2008, 07:54 PM
Yes, please dont, especially considering your age. Wait at least until you are over 21.
04-07-2008, 07:54 PM
04-07-2008, 08:34 PM
Hey guys, thanks for the info! Not to be facetious or anything since I am here to learn from you all and not cause any problems, but I did a lot of research and I know it is a steroid, but was hoping you could all tell me more about it and the side effects etc... My current workout routine is as follows:
Monday: Chest- Bench Press, Incline BP and cable flies
Tuesday: Back- Seated rows, shrugs, lat pull downs
Wednesday: Arms- Bicep curls, hammer curls
Triceps straight push downs, rope push downs
Thursday: Quads and Hams- Squats, standing leg press, seated leg press, ham curl, quad isolation
Friday: Calves and Core - Calf press, seated calf press
nautilus abs machine, crunches, reverse crunches, oblique side to sides, double jackknife crunches, jog 10 minutes (HIIT)
Saturday: Jog before Breakfast (HIIT)
(All exercises are 3 sets (6, 6, failure with 10-15% less weight) except for core and calves which are (25, 25, 10-15% less weight failure)
My diet is as follows:
4:30 AM: (Pre-WO) 2 scoops Up Your Mass Weight Gainer with 8 oz. whole milk
5:00-5:30, 6:00ish (WO)
6:30 AM: (Post WO) 3 hard boiled eggs, 8 oz juice of choice, 1 cup apple oatmeal
8:30 AM: 2 scoops Up Your Mass Weight Gainer with 8 oz. whole milk
10:30 AM: Salad, celery, with almonds and avocado
12:30 PM: Chicken or Turkey with Swiss Cheese on Rye with Mustard, grounded chili pepper, and a banana
2:30 PM: 2 scoops Up Your Mass Weight Gainer with 8 oz. whole milk or 8 oz. chicken breast and sweet potatoes or broccoli
4:30 PM: 8 oz any lean red meat such as top sirloin or steak, sweet potatoes, broccoli, and cauliflower
6:30 PM: celery with natural peanut butter and 8 oz. whole milk.
This obviously changes up a bit, but these are my basic guidelines. I am also looking to increase my workouts soon to my old 2x (Each body part) per week split.
My supplements are: Multi-vitamin, Cell Mass, NO-Xplode, Omega 3, and Up Your Mass Weight Gainer. I have tried Mass FX, but saw no effect and just exchanged it for 17-hydroxy mesterone which I also see no effects for. I have tried 17 HD which made me sick with heart palpatations in the past. I have T-Bomb 2, but it does not seem strong enough for me.
Now, like I said, I am not here to argue with any of you, but rather to prove myself to you all. I am actually quite knowledgeable in regards to many of the supplements out there, but have little first hand experience. Please help me find something out there to help increase my gains. I am not at all happy with the way I look and am greatly determined to change that for the better. Any help would be greatly appreciated! Thank you all very much!
The Man, The Myth, The Legend!!!
04-07-2008, 09:52 PM
so you know it is a steroid? in your original post you said you don't want to take steroids...make up your mind. bodybuilding and strength gaining is not a sprint...it is a marathon. you start messing around with this stuff at age 18, you could do your body some serious damage. re-think this.
04-07-2008, 09:59 PM
If i were you id stop worrying about adding test or test like supps and add some bb rows and deadlifts to that set up, move the rep ranges into the 8-12 range, start eating ice cream for breakfast (6'0 140?)throw the NoXplode and cellmass in the garbage and replace with cheaper products with better reps creatine mono works great and is cheap and a caffiene pill and a smidge of ArgAkg and some purple wrath be way mo gooder then NoXplode and be 75 percent cheaper.
04-07-2008, 11:40 PM
Haven't posted here in a while, but I saw this thread and really want to help you out bro. I see that you have tried some of the natty test boosters which are good products (at least mass fx is lol). The reason that these aren't providing the gains that some people report from them is that your hormones are around their pinacle right now already. Hormonally, at 18, your body will stay just as anabolic with or without supplements to help increase that. Most people that see big gains on these are just trying to have to levels that you wake up with every day, and they haven't had in five or ten years.
I also see that you want to take a leap into steroids because you're current gains aren't what you want. Now I'm not sure what you have gained so far so this could be mostly impatience on your part. If that's the case I wanna quote that guy that said "bodybuilding is a marathon, not a sprint". If not then I can see a few things in your routine that you could fix. Give this split a try.
Monday- chest & tris- flat BB bench, incline BB bench, decline DB bench; overhead EZ bar extensions, cable kickbacks, rope pulldowns
Tuesday- back & bis- pull ups, bent BB rows, dead lifts, cable rows; BB preacher curls, seated incline curls, high cable curls
Wednesday- Shoulders & traps- seated BB shoulder press, DB side laterals, DB front laterals, reverse DB flies; shrugs
Thursday- legs- Squats, hamstring curls, quad extensions, calve raises, hack squats or leg press
Friday- tris & bis- close grip BB press, skull crushers, rope pull downs; BB preacher curls, DB preacher hammer curls, high cable curls
You want to do between 4 and 5 sets of all majors. When I say "back & bis" back would be the major muscle group that day. Same for chest, with the only difference on friday when everything is 3 sets. The minor muscle groups like Mondays tris should only get 3 sets as well, so the focus is really on chest or back on those days. You want to keep your reps between 8 and 12 for all of your sets. This isn't a bodybuilding prep workout but it will help you pack on some better size. Calves can be spread out at the end of a workout somewhere during the week other than legs day as well since you'll find to really grow them they need to be hit a couple times a week and with high, slow reps.
I already typed so much so i'm going to leave the diet up to someone else here LOL. Just eat 6 meals a day. Staples for you should be oatmeal, wheat bread, wheat pasta, chicken, tuna, eggs, milk, and water.
Finally for your supps. Creatine mono is what you need. All these other BS creatine's really don't do anything for most of the people that take them. Although I have heard good things about SizeOn. A good weight gainer is True Mass, which is also delicious; and a protien like syntha6 or gold standard would be fine.
The reason that this thread made me break my hiatus from posting here is because I was just like you. Sadly I wouldn't listen to anybody that warned me about doing more research and waiting a couple of years. I ran my first cycle right after my 18th birthday. I was also one of the only 18 year olds who couldn't get a boner because I had no idea what I was getting into and destroyed my sex drive for about six months. I got really depressed because all of my sudden gains went to hell and I was worse off than when I started. I got bad acne (because at that age I was already greasy enough), and we'll just say didn't handle my mood swings propperly. Looking back all I can do is use it as a learning experience. It almost wrecked my bodybuilding career before it even started, and I'd hate for that to happen to someone I could have helped. I researched for another 3 years before I ran another cycle. I will never say that steroids are bad or shouldn't be taken. But I will ask people like you to heed my warnings and take my advice. YOU DON'T HAVE TO LEARN THE HARD WAY!
04-07-2008, 11:43 PM
I feel kind of gay for being so emo in that last post, so you better read it!!!
04-08-2008, 01:01 AM
you have to worry about joint damage, tendonitis, closing your growth platestesticular atrophy, balding, impotence (I can't imagine being 18 and not being able to get it up), etc - the list goes on!
you're natural testosterone levels are the highest they will ever be, if you take a steroid and your body shuts down natural testosterone production the chances are that you'll never get your testosterone levels completely back.
if you're wondering why you didn't get results before...it's because 3 years ago you were 15 years old!
I agree with the previous posts: eat like crazy, train like crazy, get pleanty of rest, and you'll hit your goals - be patient! You won't hit your full natural potential for years to come...don't screw it up now.
04-08-2008, 09:09 AM
Alright everyone, so after much research and your feedback I decided to stay natural so no steroids.
I do have a few questions for you all though:
1) Are the RPM, DRIVE, and IGF-2 from Applied Nutriceuticals steroids? I am pretty sure they are not, but I would also like to know if you people think they are good and whether or not they would help me in either a stack of all three or just RPM and DRIVE.
2) Is Carbolin 19 or Alpha Male from Biotest, which already has that in it worth the money and would it help me?
3) Should I stick with the Twinlab Amino Fuel or switch to Purple Wrath? It looks like Amino fuel has more in it and I can get it much cheaper...
4) Creatine monohydrate, which you all suggested because it was cheaper retains water. I want to have a dry chiseled look so am I better off sticking with Cell Mass? (I have recently broke out in a bit of acne though it is not severe and am pretty sure it is from the Cell Mass)
5) Would I be better off taking a Glutamine supplement instead of or as well as Creatine? If so, any suggestions on which one?
Thanks for all the info and support!
The Man, The Myth, The Legend!!!
04-08-2008, 09:12 AM
I forgot to ask: Where are the cheapest places to buy these supplements besides the store listed for AM.com?
The Man, The Myth, The Legend!!!
04-08-2008, 09:32 AM
nutraplanet prices are A+
1. i wouldnt bother with it
2.more waste of money
3.purple wrath all the way
4.no it doesnt unless you are talking about water actually in the muscle
5.more waste of cash theres more then enoufgh glutamine in protein shakes and all the other stuff
4b. im 6'5 245 with vascularity on my ribcage, legs, arms shoulders etc creatine usage has never changed it and i use primaforce creaform scoop when i get up and go to bed and pre and post wo stop reading mens health
04-08-2008, 01:00 PM
04-08-2008, 01:05 PM
original poster send me a PM. i got sumin that will help you out.
04-08-2008, 02:43 PM
the post above me bothers me...
-Saving random peoples' nuts, one pair at at time... PCT info:
-Are you really ready for a cycle? Read this link and be honest:
*I am not a medical expert, my opinions are not professional, and I strongly suggest doing research of your own.*
04-09-2008, 05:02 PM
yes ManBeast, I agree....
04-09-2008, 05:05 PM
Haha, relax guys. He was just telling me about a site where you can get things cheaper, that's all...
The Man, The Myth, The Legend!!!
04-09-2008, 05:07 PM
04-12-2008, 06:36 PM
Deads, Squats, Deads
04-12-2008, 06:49 PM
04-12-2008, 07:22 PM
Holy sh&t you're 18 and holding a trumpet dude. Angels sound trumpets and they don't do roids... you my friend are an angel
04-13-2008, 01:14 AM
Hey guys, I haven’t been on in a few days because things have been hectic at home. So to start, I returned 17-Hydroxy Methyl or what ever the hell it was called because it was crap and though you are all going to kill me, I got a bottle of DecaVol instead. So far, I have been on it for about 4 days and I think the stuff is crap. Nothing I have taken feels like it is doing a damn thing. I want a really dry model-like look so I am sticking wit the creating ethyl esther. What is AF/ PW? I currently have TwinLab Amino Fuel and it seems to have a lot more of everything than all the others out there and yet everyone is saying either Purple Wrath, Optimum Nutrition’s BCAAs, or Xtend. How come?
Haha, thanks Alex Party, but I want to look the part as well. I am not going to do any steroids or anything detrimental to my health, but I want to look into pro-hormones that are non-liver toxic, and produce dry gains since those are of higher quality, closer to my goals, and stay after the cycle. Can any of you give me some tips about them?
Also, I have 2 training questions:
1) Should push and pull muscle groups be trained with the same amount of weight? (I curl with 20-25 lbs and yet I feel like I can do at least around 50 lbs. for tricep pushdowns…)
2) I really want to get a model like physique as soon as possible though I know it will obviously take time. How often should I aim to increase the weight and by how much normally?
The Man, The Myth, The Legend!!!
04-13-2008, 01:43 AM
Okay, first off man, STOP WORRYING ABOUT SUPPLEMENTS! I don't have any experience with decavol, but chances are IT'S A STEROID. Prohormones are not prohormones. Think of it this way. Outside your body, it's not a steroid. But when your body consumes it, it becomes a steroid. So, in the end, you might as well be popping steroids to begin with. Please man, slow down. I know what it is like to be that age and unhappy with your appearance man, but slow down before you hurt yourself. And quit taking the decavol, you will screw up your hormones, and you could end up with everything from gyno (b!tch tits. basically you start to grow breasts), acne, low testosterone which would mean losing muscle and gaining fat, high estrogen which causes a plethora of problems. Just slow down man. At your age, best decision would probably be to decide what to do first. Gain muscle, or lose fat, because under normal circumstances you can't do it at the same time very effectively. If you want to gain muscle, look up diet information, workout info, etc. Trust me, when I was in high school I wanted to gain weight my senior year, in 2 1/2 months I gained 13 pounds naturally, and only 1 pound was fat! It can be done man trust me! The best supplements are protein, and creatine. wanna get fancy, get some fish oil (not being sarcastic, look up the studies). As for your questions-
1) No, you don't. The biceps are smaller muscles than the triceps so you'll naturally be able to push more than you can pull.
2) Depends on what you want to do.
Please man, just slow down, and research, research, research. Look up how to add muscle, how to lose fat, how to do everything just by sleep, diet manipulation, and training. If you're not knowing how to workout very well yet, then you're not ready man. Just please, research it. Your testosterone levels right now are the levels that a lot of people wish they had. Because you can build muscle easily. But, you can't build muscle if you don't give your body the right tools. And those tools are diet, exercise, and rest. I know many many bodybuilders who will say that diet is 80% of gains. So come on man, look at what you're doing and watch out before you get hit with a ton of bricks. And NEVER put something in your body without researching what it is first. You could end up in a body bag for sh!t like that.
04-13-2008, 01:59 AM
04-13-2008, 06:12 AM
so you got decavol and are asking questions about purple wrath way to go what did u buy for PCT? did u grab a SERM in case your nuts shrink down to the size peanut m+m's what doc are ya gunna get to chop out the gyno from the poorly thought out adventure what liver support supps are you taking cholesterol management? assuming and i dunno if it does or not actually convert to nand all those are questions you needed answered before taking it and all those questions have answers here on this board do your homework before you screw up your endocrine system unless that is the "model Body" you are looking 4 has gynomastia, creaky joints, jaundice , acne scars and 18 percent BF
04-13-2008, 09:28 AM
Yea man i know ur getting all excited and all and u want it now now now. But this doesn't happen overnight i hate to tell you. Patience is a virtue, I thnk I heard that somewhere b4.
04-13-2008, 04:23 PM
04-13-2008, 06:28 PM
04-13-2008, 07:58 PM
04-13-2008, 09:09 PM
04-13-2008, 09:59 PM
Why ask for advice if you are not going to accept it? You've stumbled on a wealth of information, my advice is to take advantage of what people are telling you.
04-13-2008, 10:14 PM
04-14-2008, 02:17 AM
^^ they thought you were IMO. but take the advice kid. Dont worry bout PH for awhile. Get yourself some good protien and creatine if you want too. Train hard, eat whole meals and sleep. No matter what sups could never replace and good diet to bulk up.
04-14-2008, 07:01 AM
Exactly, just get your calories a day, when you stop gaining good lbs then increase your cals and monitor body fat.
04-14-2008, 05:01 PM
Hey guys, what’s up? Sorry it has been a while yet again. My life is always very hectic which is why I have to train at 5:00 AM every day since I have no other free time available. First of all, I appreciate all of your support and advice, but everyone seriously needs to calm down!
Dave12: I have 6-OXO for PCT which I learned is way stronger than what I will need for this after much meticulous research done before my decision to take Decavol. There are no side effects or Gyno. and my libido has actually increased. No shrinkage so a SERM is definitely not going to be necessary. Liver support is unneeded since I made sure that this was non-liver toxic, but just in case my animal pack multi vitamin has a full liver support formula in it. I will not need cholesterol management, but just in case I am taking Omega 3 fish oil 3 times per day as well as the 300 milligrams I get from the 3 eggs I eat every morning as part of my diet. I happen to like this product a lot though it is quite expensive so I will only be taking the one bottle for now and then going on PCT and if needed though I highly doubt it will be, I will go to the doctor and have everything tested just to be safe before discontinuing it for a few months or possibly for good depending on my financial situation. Also, for your information I am eating almost 3,000 Calories per day, work out six days a week plus 3 HIIT cardio sessions, and this is a form of Deca and not Dianabol. If you are going to criticize me, please do it correctly in order to avoid making an ass out of yourself, alright?
Thanks everyone, but if you are going to criticize me rather than help me out like Dave12, please don’t bother posting here because not only are you wasting my time, but you are wasting yours as well. Last time, I checked this forum was to help others reach their goals and not discourage them from doing so. Am I correct in saying this or should I join a different forum such as BB.com or T-nation?
The Man, The Myth, The Legend!!!
04-14-2008, 05:10 PM
04-14-2008, 05:19 PM
Yeah, I've tried my best to get through to you, and help you out. Looked into it and Decavol is supposed to convert to Deca in the body. Do a quick search and you'll find out that's not what you want in your body at 18 years old. I can see you won't listen to any reason at this point so I'm out man, I did my best. I don't feel that people at BB.com or tnation will be completely supportive of an 18 year old taking a deca precurser, but hey man, it's your body, I only tried to warn you of the consequences. Some people just have to learn on their own. Unfortunately, it will be a pretty big toll that you'll have to live with, and it may very well take quite some time for your endocrine system to be right, if it will ever be right again... Not trying to bash man, but come on, 6-oxo for pct for deca? I'm out man...
04-14-2008, 05:22 PM
you're even breaking the forum rules by posting about these products.
Everyone on here HELPED you by trying to give you the best advice they could...you just don't listen.
04-14-2008, 05:23 PM
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