Best Daily Multivitamin
- 02-22-2008, 02:00 PM
- 02-23-2008, 05:53 AM
- 02-23-2008, 05:56 AM
Controlled Labs - Orange Triad"I am legally blind and if I can Squat,deadlift and over all get myself to the gym then anyone can get their a$$ in gear and get strong!!" - malleus25
02-23-2008, 02:16 PM
02-23-2008, 02:36 PM
what about the beverly international ultra 4 multivitamin?
02-23-2008, 02:38 PM
02-23-2008, 04:46 PM
02-23-2008, 05:01 PM
I've tried GNC's Mega Men's Sport multi, which I like. I like the fact that the tabs are chocolate-flavored, but you have to take it twice per day and it's quite pricey.
One-A-Day Men's Formula is good, too. I've taken this for a couple of years now.
I've thought about giving the MVP/ZMK stack and Orange Triad a try.
02-23-2008, 05:06 PM
dude, 6(!!!) tabs to get me a meager 350mg vitamin C, 200(!!)iu vitamin E, some worthless glucosamine & haluronic acid is NOT what i want to get in a multi.
check the bev profile. now THAT'S what i want in a multi.
6 tabs anything, let alone to get insufficient amounts of the basic necessities, is not "great value" imo.
now, just so you don't go away mad, i will give you guys props for purple wraath...
02-23-2008, 05:26 PM
oh yeah, forgot to mention, the digestive enzymes in bev are the best in the industry, and lookit them amounts!!!
just thought i'd throw that in there...
02-23-2008, 05:37 PM
I'm personally using GNC's Mega Man Multivitamin (about the only thing I like from GNC). It's not too bad; it has a decent formula.
When the bottle runs out, I might consider picking up a ZMK/MVP stack.
02-23-2008, 05:47 PM
02-24-2008, 12:00 AM
02-24-2008, 06:46 AM
1st of all, needing more C & E is my opinion, yes. i kinda LIKE these ALL IMPORTANT antioxidants. i believe hard training bb'ers need as much as they can get, and i personally like a min. 1g vit C/E daily. and i believe if you are a smoker (which 75% of bb'ers seem to be) you would probably help offset those negative side effects somewhat w/ 2g vitamin C min. daily, and even more @ 4g a day.
not recommending here you guys go out & slam a bunch of C and think you can smoke like a freight train, just think it would be beneficial if you do smoke.
and don't rebut me w/ "but large amounts of vit C have been shown to increase hardening of the arteries" either - these studies have been done by the same people who back the RDA's recomendation of intake (60mg - yikes!!!), which is just fine i guess if you're a couch potato. everything we take causes hardening of the arteries anyway; it's a byproduct of life.
2nd - there's not just more of those 2 things in the Bev product, there's more of EVERYTHING! it's more potent, more complete, PERIOD. the thread question was what's the best; there's a reason Bev makes this super potency.
and lastly, no i have no joint issues, but i know a LOT of guys who do, and they've all tried the glucosamine/haluronic therapy, and almost ALL of them have said they've noticed NO relief; the handful that say it's helped are mega-dosing (MUCH more than in triad) & combining w/ ibuprofen -- probably seeing results from the ibu imo.
if you want something for joint issues, i recommend cissus btw...
the whole idea of "all-in-one" products just kill me; just another marketing ploy to up the cost because "this & this" are included in it, and not many people read to see the amounts of these ingredients that are in the product or are informed enough to know the true amount that they require for said purpose.
02-24-2008, 07:01 AM
im planning on doing a little writeup about vitamins since there is SO MUCH confusion here about them...
as far as that beverly vitamin... its garbage. i love beverly but that vitamin is formulated HORRIBLY
theres 25,000iu of retinol.. 5,000iu is enough to increase the risk of bone fracture/cause bone density issues.
theres 200iu of isolated alpha tocopherol... megadosing single tocopherol isomers displaces the other tocopherols in cells and creates an unbalanced proportions of alpha to other. this is correlated strongly to heart disease.
theres almost a gram of calcium. most bodybuilders take in more than enough calcium to begin with and shouldnt be supplementing calcium unless they know their not gettinge nough
magnesium oxide is poorly absorbed and suspected to contribute to free radical production
theres is 30mg of iron.. men should *NEVER* supplement with iron unless anemia has been confirmed through blood tests. the idea that 'bodybuilders need more iron' to the extent that they need to supplement it is simply not true and is dangerous.
etc etc etc etc
02-24-2008, 07:44 AM
excessive vit E causes heart disease...
please do let me see the write-up for that one, love to see where you pulled that one from (prob. that same study where vit C causes hardening of arteries)...
magnesium in an essential mineral...
super pak contains 18mg iron, not 30 (100% of RDA btw)...
calcium is meets my dietary needs because i am lactose intolerant & do not do dairy products...
i always love to learn; if you have some reputable info on nutrition since everyone is so "misinformed" please by all means, share away.
02-24-2008, 08:02 AM
vitamin E is actually a 'blanket' for 8 separate isomers. 4 tocopherols and 4 tocotrienols.
supplemeing large amount of any single isomer will displace the other isomers in the cells. the gamma isomer occurs in the largest amount in common food... alpha tends to displace gamma. displacing gamma leads to increas risk of heart disease
read this article, and look up the referenced studies on pubmed
more research abstracts:
magnesium is essential, but what it is bonded to is equally as important. MgO is formed between an ionic bond between magnesium and one oxygen atom. when the body cleaves this, it releases Mg & O... its the O that causes the trouble.magnesium in an essential mineral...
not to mention MgO is very poorly absorbed to begin with. its very cheap, and thats why companies put it in their products.
glycinate is the best absorbed form of magnesium to my knowledge... aspartate, orotate & citrate behind that.
according to the beverly website both their multi tablet & packs contain 30mg of iron per serving.super pak contains 18mg iron, not 30 (100% of RDA btw)...
regardless of the amount, men should NEVER supplement iron. you get more than enough iron from the meat you eat...
just as an example.. im a vegetarian. i dont supplement iron and i make no special attempt to get extra iron in my diet, and my iron levels are perfect (confirmed through bloodwork). the abolity of the male body to hold on to iron is extraordinary and supplementing extra iron can be DANGEROUS.
not to mention that combing iron w/ calcium & zinc just shows a blatant lack of understanding mineral absorbtion. iron (if needed) should always be taken separately because it will interfere with the absorbtion of the other minerals & less of BOTH end up getting abrorbed.
02-24-2008, 10:25 AM
first of all, let me say that you appear to be very thorough in your research, i give you props for that. i applaud your effort; always nice to see someone else's (rational) point of view on things.
however, let me also state that if you want people to really pay attention to what you say, you can't list as the first thing in your arguement an article that is for the promotion of a supplement product. if i'm a company trying to push my product, then of course i'm going to utilize any study that even vaguely helps my cause. once again, the amazing power of the industry to mislead...
one thing i feel the company is not clarifying in the study at points (where they just say "vit E") is possibly leaving out the fact that they used dl-alpha (synthetic, which is crap & poorly absorbed by the body) in these comparisons; one can never tell w/ advertising hype. companies quote what will help their cause...
i personally have supplemented for over 15 yrs. now @ a minimum of 800 iu d-alpha E daily, more often than not above 1g, and during heavy training/dieting i've been at 1500 or more. that's non-stop for 15+ yrs. man, with no issues. my blood pressure is fine. no prostate probs. no alzheimer's (i don't think anyway... can't remember, jk). haven't been sick in 2+ yrs. now, despite the worst outbreaks of flu in the U.S. (inc. my kids & wife multiple times) over the last 2 winters. not bragging, just feel i'm doing something right here...
i will give credit for the company putting COQ10 in their formula tho, as i am a huge fan of this & supplement w/ 400mg following w/o.
as to the magnesium, you make a good point here. all of the colloidal mineral forms out there (which is the best way to straight-supplement these elements imo) do contain mag, albeit in lesser amounts, and can't really argue to the MgO produced in bonding point you make. that is beyond my realm, and i'll take your word for it...
i do believe the iron issue is over-rated; no, men should not actively seek out additional supplementation of this mineral you are right, but 18mg (yes it is 18, i'm looking at the product right in front of me, and you can verify this on ************.net as well as bb.com sites) is a harmless amount, even if you are eating 6 meals daily of red meat -- which i have also done from time to time on a beef & grapefruit diet. you cannot produce any study that contradicts this amount to be safe, period.
i cannot argue the issue of iron/calcium/zinc absorption issues either, as again that is out of my realm.
what i can say is that i will continue to use super pak when heavy training/contest dieting, as i wholeheartedly believe that beverly is right on the money as far as dietary nutrition considerations are concerned. they've been doing this for 40 yrs., and the pros from yesteryear as well as today continue to use these items for their own nutritional needs. this works for me in my situation; the ultra-4 works for me during less stressfull situations (maintainence). i'll alternate the super pak w/ universal animal paks throughout my pre-contest prep, because altho i like the bev profile a bit more, i like the idea of splitting equal amounts of nutrients strategically thru day on certain training days...
we can dissect the finer points of nutrition all day long, bottom line is preference i guess.
let's agree to disagree...
thanks for the info.
02-24-2008, 04:40 PM
read the abstracts, most of the give specific chemical compositions of the tocopherol isomers used.one thing i feel the company is not clarifying in the study at points (where they just say "vit E")
then you are putting yourself at risk... despite the 'perceived' lack of detriment. do the the research, read the science... you'll see im right. you could just as easily use a balanced tocopherol product and get the same benefits, and eliminate the risk... a lot of companies make them now.i personally have supplemented for over 15 yrs. now @ a minimum of 800 iu d-alpha E daily,
read up on ubiquinol.. you could cut your coq10 dose by 1/4 and get higher blood levels.i will give credit for the company putting COQ10 in their formula tho, as i am a huge fan of this & supplement w/ 400mg following w/o.
wrong.you cannot produce any study that contradicts this amount to be safe, period.
Mild iron deficiency has been hypothesised to reduce risk of heart disease risk,1 while a high concentration of body iron has been suggested as a risk factor for myocardial infarction
Sullivan JL. The iron paradigm of ischaemic heart disease. Am Heart J 1989;117:1177-88. [Medline]
Salonen JT, Nyyssönen K, Korpela H, Tuomilehto J, Seppänen R, Salonen R. High stored iron levels are associated with excess risk of myocardial infarction in eastern Finnish men. Circulation 1992;86:803-11.
Salonen JT. Is there a continuing need for longitudinal epidemiologic research?–the Kuopio ischaemic heart disease risk factor study. Ann Clin Res 1988;20:46-50. [Medline]
Salonen JT. The role of iron as a cardiovascular risk factor. Curr Opin Lipidology 1993;4:277-82.
Salonen JT. Body iron stores, lipid peroxidation and coronary heart disease. In: Hallberg L, Asp N-G, eds. Iron nutrition in health and disease. London: John Libbey, 1996: 293-301.
i could go on, but i'll stop.
there have been more advances in human dietetics in the past 10 years than there have been in the past 100... just cos someones been around for a long time, doesnt mean they stay up to date on what science is teaching us TODAY.as i wholeheartedly believe that beverly is right on the money as far as dietary nutrition considerations are concerned. they've been doing this for 40 yrs.,
wordlet's agree to disagree...
02-24-2008, 05:03 PM
02-24-2008, 05:04 PM
Thoughts on Life Extensions mix powder as a multi?
02-24-2008, 05:05 PM
02-24-2008, 05:06 PM
02-24-2008, 06:00 PM
I got diarrhea from LEF's mix. I think I will try AOR's ortho-core for a change.
02-24-2008, 10:02 PM
02-24-2008, 10:04 PM
02-24-2008, 10:14 PM
02-25-2008, 12:20 AM
500mg of ascorbic acid is enough to saturate plasma levels and 2g to saturate aqueous humor I believe.
02-25-2008, 12:24 AM
02-25-2008, 07:05 AM
02-25-2008, 07:09 AM
02-25-2008, 08:35 AM
02-25-2008, 08:40 AM
you're telling me that i can actually increase my 365 max. bench if i decrease my C intake level?
and i word this carefully, because i don't wish to come across boastful here at all; i am just stating facts: but how many guys can bench 2x their bodyweight? i weigh 182...
so show me this info, really, because i'd really like to know how i'm hurting my strength gains here...
02-25-2008, 08:41 AM
02-25-2008, 10:26 AM
AOR ortho-core or multi basics (generally accepted as the best)
NOW adam is decent
dr. weil or invite packs (same thing)
some of the NSI synergy range
too much E, not enough folic acid for the amount of other B's, WAYYYyy too much calcium, enough b6 to cause nerve damage (PAK is b6 but not listed as b6), too much cholinewhy?
no iron in this one man...
02-25-2008, 10:44 AM
can someone explain the benefits of taking CoQ10 post workout as opposed to any other time of the day? I thought that in addition to cardio health this also acts as an antioxidant. So following this line of reasoning that Vit c is not good to take pre or post workout, wouldnt CoQ10 be counterproductive as well?
02-25-2008, 09:31 PM
I recently started taking aor ortho*core. Its really a toss up between that, LEF, and MST MVP36/ZMK.
I went with orthocore because the vitamin E mix had tocotrienols, and it contains the well studied amount of Chlorophyllin, AND coq10. Pretty ridiculous stack IMO, good value.
02-25-2008, 09:45 PM
Just found it. Actually it was a mens health article
I just remember skimming over it a couple months back but didint see the Means health, lol
good thread: take high dosed vitamin-c? - Page 7 - Bodybuilding.com Forums
Serious Nutrition Solutions Representative
X-GELS THE Prohormone alternative!
02-26-2008, 06:21 AM
that was a good thread you referred me to. found interesting the mention of high levels of iron usage interacting w/ high dose C - now that makes perfect sense to me.
interesting topic, and i'll concede the issue. i'll also continue to do what i'm doing, cuz it works for me...
didn't mean to snipe man, my test levels are elevated.
03-16-2008, 05:28 PM
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