liftbig74
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I was wondering what everyone thought was the best multivitamin.
damm, is this dejavu all over again...Controlled Labs - Orange Triad
great one as well, super pak is just a little more potent, complete.what about the beverly international ultra 4 multivitamin?
yeah, great value and you get all of the following in the same bottle:Controlled Labs - Orange Triad
yeah, great value and you get all of the following in the same bottle:
multivitamin
joint supplement
digestion and immune aids
thanks for you opinion, but more is not always better when it comes to these (extra vitamin c and e can be added dirt cheap if you so desire). you may think some ingredients are worthless, but you obviously dont need a joint supp thendude, 6(!!!) tabs to get me a meager 350mg vitamin C, 200(!!)iu vitamin E, some worthless glucosamine & haluronic acid is NOT what i want to get in a multi.
check the bev profile. now THAT'S what i want in a multi.
6 tabs anything, let alone to get insufficient amounts of the basic necessities, is not "great value" imo.
now, just so you don't go away mad, i will give you guys props for purple wraath...
you're sidestepping the issue CL.thanks for you opinion, but more is not always better when it comes to these (extra vitamin c and e can be added dirt cheap if you so desire). you may think some ingredients are worthless, but you obviously dont need a joint supp then
taking 1g of any isolated tocopherol isomer is asking for heart disease1g vit C/E daily.
taking 1g of any isolated tocopherol isomer is asking for heart disease
im planning on doing a little writeup about vitamins since there is SO MUCH confusion here about them...
as far as that beverly vitamin... its garbage. i love beverly but that vitamin is formulated HORRIBLY
theres 25,000iu of retinol.. 5,000iu is enough to increase the risk of bone fracture/cause bone density issues.
theres 200iu of isolated alpha tocopherol... megadosing single tocopherol isomers displaces the other tocopherols in cells and creates an unbalanced proportions of alpha to other. this is correlated strongly to heart disease.
theres almost a gram of calcium. most bodybuilders take in more than enough calcium to begin with and shouldnt be supplementing calcium unless they know their not gettinge nough
magnesium oxide is poorly absorbed and suspected to contribute to free radical production
theres is 30mg of iron.. men should *NEVER* supplement with iron unless anemia has been confirmed through blood tests. the idea that 'bodybuilders need more iron' to the extent that they need to supplement it is simply not true and is dangerous.
etc etc etc etc
the vitC hardening arteries thing is bull****... just so you know.excessive vit E causes heart disease...
please do let me see the write-up for that one, love to see where you pulled that one from (prob. that same study where vit C causes hardening of arteries)...
magnesium is essential, but what it is bonded to is equally as important. MgO is formed between an ionic bond between magnesium and one oxygen atom. when the body cleaves this, it releases Mg & O... its the O that causes the trouble.magnesium in an essential mineral...
according to the beverly website both their multi tablet & packs contain 30mg of iron per serving.super pak contains 18mg iron, not 30 (100% of RDA btw)...
yes, i know about the vit C/artery thing, ridiculous, but there are still those that spout that nonsense. :nono:the vitC hardening arteries thing is bull****... just so you know.
vitamin E is actually a 'blanket' for 8 separate isomers. 4 tocopherols and 4 tocotrienols.
supplemeing large amount of any single isomer will displace the other isomers in the cells. the gamma isomer occurs in the largest amount in common food... alpha tends to displace gamma. displacing gamma leads to increas risk of heart disease
read this article, and look up the referenced studies on pubmed
http://aor.ca/int/related_research/total_e.php
www.lef.org/magazine/mag2006/apr2006_report_gamma_01.htm
http://www.imminst.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=17149&hl=\vitamin+e\
more research abstracts:
http://aor.ca/int/abstracts/vitamin_e_complex.php
magnesium is essential, but what it is bonded to is equally as important. MgO is formed between an ionic bond between magnesium and one oxygen atom. when the body cleaves this, it releases Mg & O... its the O that causes the trouble.
not to mention MgO is very poorly absorbed to begin with. its very cheap, and thats why companies put it in their products.
glycinate is the best absorbed form of magnesium to my knowledge... aspartate, orotate & citrate behind that.
according to the beverly website both their multi tablet & packs contain 30mg of iron per serving.
regardless of the amount, men should NEVER supplement iron. you get more than enough iron from the meat you eat...
just as an example.. im a vegetarian. i dont supplement iron and i make no special attempt to get extra iron in my diet, and my iron levels are perfect (confirmed through bloodwork). the abolity of the male body to hold on to iron is extraordinary and supplementing extra iron can be DANGEROUS.
not to mention that combing iron w/ calcium & zinc just shows a blatant lack of understanding mineral absorbtion. iron (if needed) should always be taken separately because it will interfere with the absorbtion of the other minerals & less of BOTH end up getting abrorbed.
while i agree with that in general, i used the AOR website for 2 reason... 1) AOR is the single most science backed supplement company in the world. period. the company is run by & the products formulated by scientists. they are at the fore-front of supplement science... 2) the real reason i used that link is rather than me post 20 pubmed studies, they have a compounded list of abstracts...its just easier to read that way.however, let me also state that if you want people to really pay attention to what you say, you can't list as the first thing in your arguement an article that is for the promotion of a supplement product. if i'm a company trying to push my product, then of course i'm going to utilize any study that even vaguely helps my cause. once again, the amazing power of the industry to mislead...
read the abstracts, most of the give specific chemical compositions of the tocopherol isomers used.one thing i feel the company is not clarifying in the study at points (where they just say "vit E")
then you are putting yourself at risk... despite the 'perceived' lack of detriment. do the the research, read the science... you'll see im right. you could just as easily use a balanced tocopherol product and get the same benefits, and eliminate the risk... a lot of companies make them now.i personally have supplemented for over 15 yrs. now @ a minimum of 800 iu d-alpha E daily,
read up on ubiquinol.. you could cut your coq10 dose by 1/4 and get higher blood levels.i will give credit for the company putting COQ10 in their formula tho, as i am a huge fan of this & supplement w/ 400mg following w/o.
wrong.you cannot produce any study that contradicts this amount to be safe, period.
there have been more advances in human dietetics in the past 10 years than there have been in the past 100... just cos someones been around for a long time, doesnt mean they stay up to date on what science is teaching us TODAY.as i wholeheartedly believe that beverly is right on the money as far as dietary nutrition considerations are concerned. they've been doing this for 40 yrs.,
wordlet's agree to disagree...
you have to tell me how to do that quoting format like that - i'm diggin it.word
you just manually type in (with no spaces)you have to tell me how to do that quoting format like that - i'm diggin it.
decent stuff... vitamin E thing is still an issue but its better than 99% of the other stuff out there.Thoughts on Life Extensions mix powder as a multi?
Have you seen the studies about how 1g+ of vit C can decrease streangth levels?you're sidestepping the issue CL.
1st of all, needing more C & E is my opinion, yes. i kinda LIKE these ALL IMPORTANT antioxidants. i believe hard training bb'ers need as much as they can get, and i personally like a min. 1g vit C/E daily. and i believe if you are a smoker (which 75% of bb'ers seem to be) you would probably help offset those negative side effects somewhat w/ 2g vitamin C min. daily, and even more @ 4g a day.
not recommending here you guys go out & slam a bunch of C and think you can smoke like a freight train, just think it would be beneficial if you do smoke.
and don't rebut me w/ "but large amounts of vit C have been shown to increase hardening of the arteries" either - these studies have been done by the same people who back the RDA's recomendation of intake (60mg - yikes!!!), which is just fine i guess if you're a couch potato. everything we take causes hardening of the arteries anyway; it's a byproduct of life.
2nd - there's not just more of those 2 things in the Bev product, there's more of EVERYTHING! it's more potent, more complete, PERIOD. the thread question was what's the best; there's a reason Bev makes this super potency.
and lastly, no i have no joint issues, but i know a LOT of guys who do, and they've all tried the glucosamine/haluronic therapy, and almost ALL of them have said they've noticed NO relief; the handful that say it's helped are mega-dosing (MUCH more than in triad) & combining w/ ibuprofen -- probably seeing results from the ibu imo.
if you want something for joint issues, i recommend cissus btw...
the whole idea of "all-in-one" products just kill me; just another marketing ploy to up the cost because "this & this" are included in it, and not many people read to see the amounts of these ingredients that are in the product or are informed enough to know the true amount that they require for said purpose.
i'de be willing to bed that has a lot to do with timing...Have you seen the studies about how 1g+ of vit C can decrease streangth levels?
ill try to dig it up
i'de be willing to bed that has a lot to do with timing...
you dont wanna decrease free radical production immediately before or after lifting...
yea 500-1000mg is perfect, i just wouldnt take it directly before or after you lift.So is 500mg of Vit C a day OKAY???
Also, I think I'm gonna get hit by many forummers, but I just love Animal Pak!!! Just my personal experience!:nutkick:
So besides AOR what else do you recommend?yea 500-1000mg is perfect, i just wouldnt take it directly before or after you lift.
animal pack is such garbage, i really dont understand why everyone likes it so much... i could pick that apart even worse than the beverly multi
why?yea 500-1000mg is perfect, i just wouldnt take it directly before or after you lift.
animal pack is such garbage, i really dont understand why everyone likes it so much... i could pick that apart even worse than the beverly multi
yes bird, please dig that one up.Have you seen the studies about how 1g+ of vit C can decrease streangth levels?
ill try to dig it up
no hit here buddy...So is 500mg of Vit C a day OKAY???
Also, I think I'm gonna get hit by many forummers, but I just love Animal Pak!!! Just my personal experience!:nutkick:
depends on the product, just a straight multivitamin?So besides AOR what else do you recommend?
too much E, not enough folic acid for the amount of other B's, WAYYYyy too much calcium, enough b6 to cause nerve damage (PAK is b6 but not listed as b6), too much cholinewhy?
no iron in this one man...
No prob.yes bird, please dig that one up.
you're telling me that i can actually increase my 365 max. bench if i decrease my C intake level?
and i word this carefully, because i don't wish to come across boastful here at all; i am just stating facts: but how many guys can bench 2x their bodyweight? i weigh 182...
so show me this info, really, because i'd really like to know how i'm hurting my strength gains here...
no man, we should all adhere to the mens health recommendations, stuff's great info to live by... :rofl:No prob.
Just found it. Actually it was a mens health article
I just remember skimming over it a couple months back but didint see the Means health, lol
my bad
good thread: take high dosed vitamin-c? - Page 7 - Bodybuilding.com Forums
Super Nutrition Opti-Paks?yea 500-1000mg is perfect, i just wouldnt take it directly before or after you lift.
animal pack is such garbage, i really dont understand why everyone likes it so much... i could pick that apart even worse than the beverly multi
Subbing because I'm interested in the write up.im planning on doing a little writeup about vitamins since there is SO MUCH confusion here about them...
depends on the product, just a straight multivitamin?
AOR ortho-core or multi basics (generally accepted as the best)
mhp activite
pioneer 1+
LEF
NOW adam is decent
dr. weil or invite packs (same thing)
some of the NSI synergy range
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