Bull6125
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Since Cissus has anti-inflammatory properties, will it diminish the effects of XFACTOR? I am stacking Incarnate with XFACTOR. Has anyone tried this (or something similar)?
There are certain interactions involved that lead me to believe cissus and x factor is NOT a good idea. There's been several good debates on this throughout the industry as well if you look hard enoughSince Cissus has anti-inflammatory properties, will it diminish the effects of XFACTOR? I am stacking Incarnate with XFACTOR. Has anyone tried this (or something similar)?
Agree.There are certain interactions involved that lead me to believe cissus and x factor is NOT a good idea. There's been several good debates on this throughout the industry as well if you look hard enough
Just because someone stacked em don't mean a damn thing bro. (no offense, just giving you the real deal, less broscience)Im not sure but I think JJ stacked them like 6 months ago.
haha interesting approach to a response. My point was that he could look back at his log to see if he experienced problems.Just because someone stacked em don't mean a damn thing bro. (no offense, just giving you the real deal, less broscience)
ok -- i'll go awayStop calling your daddy little boy. Listen... the point isnt whether or not you benefit or not, the point is that you shouldn't bother, there's EASIER options to reduce pain than cissus, cissus in all it's rights is more than likely estrogenic to so dude, seriously learn how to study and stop relying on the big boys to handle your work, you jumped into this, now GTFO or handle your business. /rant over.
I wasn't trying to offend you man, just stating my mind. If you have no scientific backing of your own, I don't feel there should be further banter brought forth is all.ok -- i'll go away
:sad:
The real point has suddenly changed completely. The question now is, how does someone as rude and ignorant as you get all those little crowns? It goes to show how silly the rep system is.Stop calling your daddy little boy. Listen... the point isnt whether or not you benefit or not, the point is that you shouldn't bother, there's EASIER options to reduce pain than cissus, cissus in all it's rights is more than likely estrogenic to so dude, seriously learn how to study and stop relying on the big boys to handle your work, you jumped into this, now GTFO or handle your business. /rant over.
The REAL point is you missed my above post and you lack intelligence. End of story.The real point has suddenly changed completely. The question now is, how does someone as rude and ignorant as you get all those little crowns? It goes to show how silly the rep system is.
And where's your "scientific backing?" Cissus is estrogenic? Show me...I wasn't trying to offend you man, just stating my mind. If you have no scientific backing of your own, I don't feel there should be further banter brought forth is all.
Trust me, there's some coming, it wasn't until a few weeks ago these studies were started, stop being a crybaby and go back to your dad's arms.And where's your "scientific backing?" Cissus is estrogenic? Show me...
Dude -- were you raised by monkeys or something? You're rudeness is almost comical. Keep "speaking your mind" so I can continue to chuckle.Trust me, there's some coming, it wasn't until a few weeks ago these studies were started, stop being a crybaby and go back to your dad's arms.
U have to excuse RA. He is brash and blunt. He knows quite a bit, still trying to figure out how in the hell he is learnig so much so fast.And where's your "scientific backing?" Cissus is estrogenic? Show me...
Ok... I *think* it was the PGF-2 conversions that were counterproductive... COULD be PGE-2, and/or a receptor site on top of that?... sigh.. I can't find my old info on it.
No matter how you turn this, one negates the other, or at least diminishes effects to a high degree....
Think of it is as the cissus being a Cox-II inbihibitor and the increased PGE2 activity decreases the effectiveness of cissus drastically via collengenase activity...
Fair enough -- I'm always willing to sift through his BS to find any helpful info. But an old guy like me knows that, if you try hard enough, you can find some "research" somewhere to support any position.U have to excuse RA. He is brash and blunt. He knows quite a bit, still trying to figure out how in the hell he is learnig so much so fast.
There are some studies taking place with both products. X-factor by some is believed to be somewhat progestinic and Cissus to be somewhat estrogenic. Forgive my spelling, spell check doesn't work.
So thats where he was going with this I believe. BTW I am not one who believes this just yet until I see the studies that are being conducted. I believe Dinoiii is the one doing them correct RA?
We have to be carefull with the "damage" AA leaves behind. The reason of inflamation in the joints is the same as in the muscles. Meaning it's trained, and the inflammatory response causes healing. If you take lighter weights on X Factor, and focus on the mind body connection. You will have virtually no joint pain.After the consumption of AA, specific enzymes (proteins that speed up chemical reactions in the body) ensure the conversion of arachidonic acid an abnormal platelet-aggregation compound (Thromboxane A2), as well as into two pro-inflammatory agents, COX-2 (Prostaglandin E2) and 5-Lipoxygenase (Leukotriene B4). Both Prostaglandin E2 and Leukotriene B4 produce inflammation and joint destruction. So, Cissus, apart from being a glucocorticoid antagonist, would reduce (partly neutralize) the inflammatory impact of Arachidonic Acid and help soothe the joint destruction that Arachidonic Acid unleashes. So, in a sense, Cissus counteracts Arachidonic Acid. In another sense, it may help clean the damage Arachidonic Acid leaves behind.
I said this a year ago and got flamed... some people's kids.We have to be carefull with the "damage" AA leaves behind. The reason of inflamation in the joints is the same as in the muscles. Meaning it's trained, and the inflammatory response causes healing. If you take lighter weights on X Factor, and focus on the mind body connection. You will have virtually no joint pain.
Personally to me it sounds and looks like a great stack. I would run it. I like this idea cause I got some insane DOMS with X-factor. I did however really like the product.Fair enough -- I'm always willing to sift through his BS to find any helpful info. But an old guy like me knows that, if you try hard enough, you can find some "research" somewhere to support any position.
That's why I always put more faith in real-world results. Is there one single guy anywhere that has gotten gyno from cissus? I love cissus (when you reach my age, you will too). And I've never had a hint of gyno from the stuff.
And if it doesn't interefere too much with the effectiveness of x-factor, then it's a viable stack. Simple as that.
Was it Voodoo and who else?I said this a year ago and got flamed... some people's kids.
I agree mostly though Strategic, I did have a slight mixup.
Oh and yes I have 2 people in mind who got gyno from excessive cissus usage.
My buddy who I kinda forced into running cissus solo for a month at a fairly high dose.. LOLWas it Voodoo and who else?
reps mean absolutely NOTHING on a forum board.PS: I repped RA just for the hell of it -- maybe he'll be nice to me now, lol.
Finally, we can agree on something.reps mean absolutely NOTHING on a forum board.
Reps jkFinally, we can agree on something.
I've heard of 1 real world result of x-factor aggravating what may have been pre-existing gyno.That's why I always put more faith in real-world results
And if you get gyno, I'll eat my liver.i'll be using 3-4g/day of cissus with xfactor
Keep me updated on ur libido with 3-4g of cissus. I know someone that had a decline with 1500mg.i'll be using 3-4g/day of cissus with xfactor
I use to love cissus... until I started doing my own research and learning how to think for myselfKeep me updated on ur libido with 3-4g of cissus. I know someone that had a decline with 1500mg.
What do u consider ur own research? If u are reading what other people(dr, sciencist) then its not really ur own research now is it.:duel:I use to love cissus... until I started doing my own research and learning how to think for myself
What it sounds like Mike, MY OWN research.What do u consider ur own research? If u are reading what other people(dr, sciencist) then its not really ur own research now is it.:duel:
That's the part I don't understand. If you used cissus (and loved it), and never had any gyno issues from it (or lost libido, etc), why did you decide to start hating it? I accept that you know someone who maybe got itchy nips from mega-dosed cissus. But if it works for you, that's all that really matters, no?I use to love cissus... until I started doing my own research and learning how to think for myself
You misconstrued my sentiments...That's the part I don't understand. If you used cissus (and loved it), and never had any gyno issues from it (or lost libido, etc), why did you decide to start hating it? I accept that you know someone who maybe got itchy nips from mega-dosed cissus. But if it works for you, that's all that really matters, no?
45g?! jeez -- how many whales have to die to feed your addiction, lol?i've only lightly pulsed superdrol as far as hormonals go, so I have nothing pre-existing. I wouldn't find it impossible to believe the combo aggravating existing, even that is somewhat unlikely.
I still wonder at the no fish oil thing really, this whole conversation brings it up, at least the science parts. fish oil binds to cox1 sites, not cox2, so I would think they wouldn't interfere as much with AA's thang. depending on how much I enjoy this cycle, I may (after a break inbetween) do an xfactor cycle while doing 45g a day fish oil to see how it affects results
Explain. Are u giving urself or friends products to use and watching the effcts on their body with bloodwork? Just trying to understand what u meant by ur own research.:cheers:What it sounds like Mike, MY OWN research.
I'll shoot you a PMExplain. Are u giving urself or friends products to use and watching the effcts on their body with bloodwork? Just trying to understand what u meant by ur own research.:cheers:
Cool beans.I'll shoot you a PM
Oh -- I guess I did misunderstand you. I thought you meant that you had used cissus and loved it. My bad.You misconstrued my sentiments...
I use to "love" cissus = I use to like the ideas behind cissus
Nobody got "itchy" nips as that's a crock in itself... people on these forums get gyno from just reading the word... so thats inpertinent.
I didn't "DECIDE" to start hating anything, I made goals to research it and understand it better, and upon completion I decided I didn't want to employ it's usage. I didn't all of a sudden wake up and say "I HATE CISSUS!" ...
I would stop it, and start once XF kicked in. You'll know right away if it affects it's effects.i plan on running 3g cissus with my upcoming xfactor poseidon log on monday... now idk.. if ill keep using cissus or not
soo stop taking itI would stop it, and start once XF kicked in. You'll know right away if it affects it's effects.
someone was telling my DC shouldnt be used for like long periods of time and there are easy weeks and stuffsomething like 2 1/2 to 3 weeks in nycste. I'm redeciding what workout routine to use for the log
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