Formestane vs. ATD

[gotDOMS]

im a big fan of nutraplanets bulk powders...i have used androstenetrione, bulk nettle, and bulk powerfull and liked them all.

Which is better/more effective...Formestane or ATD? and how do they compare to androstenetrione? any other estrogen control supplement suggestions are welcome
thanks

 

[The_Reverend]

Formestane seems to be the "hot" product these days on AM. I myself jumped on the bandwagon and started using some. The most significant difference so far seems to be the more positive effect it has on my libido compared to ATD. Other than that, its only been a week so its hard for me judge.

 

[bigschmidt821]

formestane is best used in transedermal form

 

[gotDOMS]

formestane is best used in transedermal form

yeah ive heard about the transdermal method and that e-form is very effective, however i plan on buying the formestane bulk powder from nutraplanet...how would i go about that and turn it into a trandermal?

 

[Cellardude]

get some bulk powder from NP and put it in penetrate, comes out even cheaper than e-form

 

[gotDOMS]

get some bulk powder from NP and put it in penetrate, comes out even cheaper than e-form

thanks. yeah i looked it up and its 12.99 at np.
how do you mix the formestane and apply it?
also i have used androstenetrione and ive liked the results...how does formestane/penetrate combo compare to it?
thanks again

 

[thebigt]

thanks. yeah i looked it up and its 12.99 at np.
how do you mix the formestane and apply it?
also i have used androstenetrione and ive liked the results...how does formestane/penetrate combo compare to it?
thanks again

look at neo's formestane log. it will tell you everything you ever wanted to know about formestane. btw formestane is much better imo.

 

[neoborn]

Never used ATD, but Form is the real deal baby....yeah!

Much Love,

Neoborn

 

[bioman]

I'll have to give form a try next time. ATD really does hammer down estrogen..there's no doubt in my mind as it has gotten rid of 2 seperate gyno flare ups...but you do pay a price in the libido department. Estrogen rebound doesn't seem to be an issue with ATD either in my experience.

 

[dsade]

Formestane, FTW.

 

[prld2gr8ns]

look at neo's formestane log. it will tell you everything you ever wanted to know about formestane. btw formestane is much better imo.

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-articles/68467-neoborns-formestane-eform.html

Just in case they can't find it.

 

[ECTOmorph]

how does foremstane comapare to reversterol

also how do u mix powders in with penetrate?

 

[prld2gr8ns]

how does foremstane comapare to reversterol

also how do u mix powders in with penetrate?

Resvertrol is a herbal compound shown to have serm like properties. Form is a synthetic hormone with strong AI potential, so it depends on what your looking for. Increased libido, hardness and density go with form. Haven't really heard that much purported with high dosed res as of yet, though libido seems to increase in some individuals.

As for the mixing just refer to the first page in the link.:thumbsup:

 

[ECTOmorph]

Resvertrol is a herbal compound shown to have serm like properties. Form is a synthetic hormone with strong AI potential, so it depends on what your looking for. Increased libido, hardness and density go with form. Haven't really heard that much purported with high dosed res as of yet, though libido seems to increase in some individuals.

As for the mixing just refer to the first page in the link.:thumbsup:

thanks, does resvertrol have potential along with its serm potential?

 

[thebigt]

thanks, does resvertrol have potential along with its serm potential?

look into dermacrine sustain, looks interesting. thinking of trying it myself.

 

[prld2gr8ns]

thanks, does resvertrol have potential along with its serm potential?

It has a lot of potential, especially if you can afford the higher doses to yeild around 2-3gr of active.

 

[theface]

So, what is the verdict about using formestane as a bulk and capping it yourself? Is there not enough bioavailability here?

 

[Chops89]

So, what is the verdict about using formestane as a bulk and capping it yourself? Is there not enough bioavailability here?

If you want to go the oral route, check out Formex by IBE. Normal bulk formestane should really only be used transdermally.

 

[sgcarpenter]

Saw the formestane talk and had to chime in. I recently came off a 6 week 1-t tren cycle and am using the twice a day formestane transdermal. I'm in my third week of PCT with formestane and Suppress-C and the transition has been seemless for me. I would even dare to say that my workouts have felt better than when On cycle! I've maintained my gains thus far and dropped some bloating weight as well. Libido is great, agression in the gym is hardcore. I highly reccomend it.

 

[celc5]

Saw the formestane talk and had to chime in. I recently came off a 6 week 1-t tren cycle and am using the twice a day formestane transdermal. I'm in my third week of PCT with formestane and Suppress-C and the transition has been seemless for me. I would even dare to say that my workouts have felt better than when On cycle! I've maintained my gains thus far and dropped some bloating weight as well. Libido is great, agression in the gym is hardcore. I highly reccomend it.

Nice. Opinions on formestane in pct are split for various reasons. Sounds cool that you're liking it though :head:

 

[steam]

Saw the formestane talk and had to chime in. I recently came off a 6 week 1-t tren cycle and am using the twice a day formestane transdermal. I'm in my third week of PCT with formestane and Suppress-C and the transition has been seemless for me. I would even dare to say that my workouts have felt better than when On cycle! I've maintained my gains thus far and dropped some bloating weight as well. Libido is great, agression in the gym is hardcore. I highly reccomend it.

can u pls post your full cycle and full pct regimen..thanks

 

[sgcarpenter]

This was my first cycle of 1-t tren, so my first two weeks I used 5 pumps twice a day followed by four weeks of 6 to 7 pumps twice a day. I threw in my usual daily vitamin and fish oil. I used scivation (which I am new to and love!) vaso charge pre workout with Xtend intra and post workout. Now my pct has been 2 weeks with 4 squirts formestane twice daily and 2 squirts Suppress-c twice daily. I'm now in the 4th week, so I'm cutting down to 1 squirt formestane twice daily and 1 supress-c and am transitioning into a nattie test booster to get mother nature back in sync. Looks like I am going to use the new Diesel Test pro cycle.

 

[thebigt]

This was my first cycle of 1-t tren, so my first two weeks I used 5 pumps twice a day followed by four weeks of 6 to 7 pumps twice a day. I threw in my usual daily vitamin and fish oil. I used scivation (which I am new to and love!) vaso charge pre workout with Xtend intra and post workout. Now my pct has been 2 weeks with 4 squirts formestane twice daily and 2 squirts Suppress-c twice daily. I'm now in the 4th week, so I'm cutting down to 1 squirt formestane twice daily and 1 supress-c and am transitioning into a nattie test booster to get mother nature back in sync. Looks like I am going to use the new Diesel Test pro cycle.

so let me get this right, you used more formestane on cycle than in pct. btw those were some high doses to use while on cycle, a lot of guys don't go that high even on a solo run.

 

[theface]

I've also heard awesome stuff about it; I just question the consistncy of a topical.

 

[thebigt]

I've also heard awesome stuff about it; I just question the consistncy of a topical.

haha, i question the consistency of everything where humans are involved. but if i had to trust a supplement company cel would be it, they seem to have very good quality control measures in place. besides consistency of a topical should be no different than capsules.

 

[theface]

haha, i question the consistency of everything where humans are involved. but if i had to trust a supplement company cel would be it, they seem to have very good quality control measures in place. besides consistency of a topical should be no different than capsules.

I just don't understand how a topical can be as consistent as an oral. I don't know about you, but my skin is constantly coming in contact with all kinds of things. I tried the topical sculpt, and it was a total pain in the ass because I was having to stand in front of a damn fan for 15 minutes before I could train; not to mention the stuff smelled like Ben Gay and rubbed off on my clothes. I know that our livers behave differently given what we have consumed on a given day; but I feel like something passing through an internal organ (twice) is a little more predictable than something on the outside of my body.

 

[thebigt]

I just don't understand how a topical can be as consistent as an oral. I don't know about you, but my skin is constantly coming in contact with all kinds of things. I tried the topical sculpt, and it was a total pain in the ass because I was having to stand in front of a damn fan for 15 minutes before I could train; not to mention the stuff smelled like Ben Gay and rubbed off on my clothes. I know that our livers behave differently given what we have consumed on a given day; but I feel like something passing through an internal organ (twice) is a little more predictable than something on the outside of my body.

damn, i remember skulpt. it was made by pa's company ergopharm and it totally sucked. rest assured cel's topical formestane is much, much better than skulpt. don't condemn all topicals based on that crappy assed skulpt.

 

[theface]

damn, i remember skulpt. it was made by pa's company ergopharm and it totally sucked. rest assured cel's topical formestane is much, much better than skulpt. don't condemn all topicals based on that crappy assed skulpt.

I'm not I'm not lol. I was just using that as one example. We won't even bring up my "cycle" of test-o-gel lol. Did you run skulpt? If so, did you use capzasin with it? Holy crap dude. It accidentally got on my sack and I thought I was going to die. The poor old dudes in the locker room of the gym couldn't figure out why I was putting my sack in the sink and screaming.

 

[bioman]

A good transdermal matrix will absorb into the lower layers of the skin and not wash or rub out after a few hours. Once there in the dermal layers, it will release slowly over a period of 6-12 hours so TD tends to give more consistent blood levels than oral. Not always, but generally.

It's just that TD is a PITA.

I've been experimenting with TD formestane and find it to be quite suppressive if used for more than 10 days straight. It also aggrevates my pre-existing gyno. It does boost libido, aggression, vascularity and muscle fullness for sure but I'm not sure I buy all the claims about it lowering E and raising T indefinitely.

 

[thebigt]

A good transdermal matrix will absorb into the lower layers of the skin and not wash or rub out after a few hours. Once there in the dermal layers, it will release slowly over a period of 6-12 hours so TD tends to give more consistent blood levels than oral. Not always, but generally.

It's just that TD is a PITA.

I've been experimenting with TD formestane and find it to be quite suppressive if used for more than 10 days straight. It also aggrevates my pre-existing gyno. It does boost libido, aggression, vascularity and muscle fullness for sure but I'm not sure I buy all the claims about it lowering E and raising T indefinitely.

didn't dinoii do some clinical tests on formestane? i know he is a fan of formestane. you are the first ive heard say it is suppressive after 10 days or aggravates pre-existing gyno. how much were you dosing?

 

[thebigt]

I'm not I'm not lol. I was just using that as one example. We won't even bring up my "cycle" of test-o-gel lol. Did you run skulpt? If so, did you use capzasin with it? Holy crap dude. It accidentally got on my sack and I thought I was going to die. The poor old dudes in the locker room of the gym couldn't figure out why I was putting my sack in the sink and screaming.

bad thing is putting water on it makes it worse,lol.

 

[theface]

Oh, I found out the hard way brother!

 

[bioman]

I started with 2 pumps 2x per day but backed off quickly as the aforementioned sides kicked in. Now I used it every once in a while at maybe 1/4 pump once per day and do OK with it. I don't know if I am just sensitive to it or what. It may be that it lowers SHBG faster than it lowers E.

Like I said, I'm experimenting with it so we'll see. I had high hopes for it.

 

[thebigt]

I started with 2 pumps 2x per day but backed off quickly as the aforementioned sides kicked in. Now I used it every once in a while at maybe 1/4 pump once per day and do OK with it. I don't know if I am just sensitive to it or what. It may be that it lowers SHBG faster than it lowers E.

Like I said, I'm experimenting with it so we'll see. I had high hopes for it.

hope everything turns out good for you. dreamweaver seems to have good results at a pump or 2 every other day. good luck to you. btw-maybe it is dht it is lowering and causing prolactin levels to rise, have you had prolactin levels checked?

 

[andrew732]

thebigt, you have to remember that people respond differently to different compounds, I for one have NEVER had problems with ATD.

 

[thebigt]

thebigt, you have to remember that people respond differently to different compounds, I for one have NEVER had problems with ATD.

i know andrew, i just remembered that formestane is reported to lower dht, that could possibly explain biomans gyno aggravation.

 

[justreading]

Lot of reasons but formestane is vastly superior

 

[andrew732]

i know andrew, i just remembered that formestane is reported to lower dht, that could possibly explain biomans gyno aggravation.

CORRECT, that is why I recommend one to take I3C and maybe a small dose of ATD to keep the DHT levels in check, remember as well, gyno is a genetic predisposation, not everyone gets, me lucky LOL even with my ridiculous test levels.

 

[theface]

Yeah, ATD definitely aggravated my gyno, but again it effects everyone in a different manner.

 

[bioman]

May be the prolactin issue actually. I have been zeroing in on that mode of action for a while now so it makes sense.

Otherwise, I really like the stuff as it provides a nice boost very quickly.

 

[luclyluciano]

I really like Cel's Form. Gets better and better each week u use it!

 

[thebigt]

May be the prolactin issue actually. I have been zeroing in on that mode of action for a while now so it makes sense.

Otherwise, I really like the stuff as it provides a nice boost very quickly.

it seems that prolactin has become the culprit in many cases lately. sinner says that 6oxo was very good at raising dht and combating prolactin. if you can find bulk trione add a gram or 2 to pre-mixed td formestane, i think you will like the results. i have tried this several times going back a few years and had excellent results with this combo. a very potent combination to be sure.:beerchug: btw-i have also added atd to td formestane with good results, not as good as trione but decent.

 

[bioman]

That does sound like a cool combo. I may also add in some caber whenever I get around to trying the TD form again. I really like the mental boost from it...feel strong and confident on it which comes in handy.

 

[thebigt]

That does sound like a cool combo. I may also add in some caber whenever I get around to trying the TD form again. I really like the mental boost from it...feel strong and confident on it which comes in handy.

if you decide to try it, let us know how it goes. good luck.

 

[justreading]

That does sound like a cool combo. I may also add in some caber whenever I get around to trying the TD form again. I really like the mental boost from it...feel strong and confident on it which comes in handy.

Bio,

I am the worlds MOST prolactin prone, I even lactate naturally and prami didn't help... I have no prolactin issue with fork and I have a habit of doing other things that increase prolactin, still no issue.

 

[bioman]

Strange. If I use the form for more than 2-3 days my nips get really puffy and the normally pea sized knot puffs up as well. Everything else feels great but those symptoms are disconcerting.

 

[thebigt]

Strange. If I use the form for more than 2-3 days my nips get really puffy and the normally pea sized knot puffs up as well. Everything else feels great but those symptoms are disconcerting.

damn, 2-3 days is fast. maybe it is something in the carrier you are allergic to?

 

[sgcarpenter]

no, imay not have been clear. I did not use the formestane until I was in PCT. I did not use it while on cycle with the 1TT.

 

[sgcarpenter]

I've used several trans d's and have found shaving and using them fresh out of the shower works best. With the formestane, it absorbed and dried so quickly I never felt like it washed off or lost potency. I'm no scientist, but I would think a fast drying trans d would absorb more than an oral just because it doesn't lose most of it in the stomach. At any rate, my results were good, so I reccomend trying it.

 

[1HP]

Maybe its because of SHBG inhibition in combination with a lack of DHT..

Contrary to the non-steroidal compounds, steroidal compounds like exemestane exhibit androgen agonistic activities in vivo75 expressed as a dose-dependent suppression of sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG). This effect on SHBG is not related to estrogen suppression per se, as it is not observed among the non-steroidal compounds. Notably, it is not caused by exemestane itself but through its main in vivo metabolite 17hydroexemestane.76 Interestingly, when looking at formestane, this compound does not express androgen agonistic activities on sex hormone binding globulin when administered by the parenteral route; it is, however, observed after oral administration, probably due to the excessive first pass effect on the liver.[74] and [77]

While the androgen agonistic activity of exemestane is modest, it may be of clinical importance. Most breast cancers contain androgen receptors above 10 fmol per mg protein,78 and overexpression of androgen receptors as well as stimulation of MCF-7 cells with dihydrotestosterone counteracts estradiol stimulation.79 Androgens were used for breast cancer therapy before the contemporary era of tamoxifen use80 H.B. Nevinny, C.R. Haines, M.M. Dederick and T.C. Hall, Comparative study of 6-dehydro-17alpha-methyltestosterone + testosterone propionate in human breast cancer, Cancer 17 (1) (1964), p. 95.80, and the finding in experimental systems that estrogen deprivation sensitizes breast cancer cells to androgen growth inhibition[81] and [82] raises the possibility that patients under treatment with aromatase inhibitors may be sensitized to the anti-tumour effects of androgens.

In contrast, those studies applying formestane second to a non-steroidal compound each administered formestane parenterally. However, a lack of a first-pass effect on liver synthesis of SHBG may not exclude an androgen-agonistic effect on tumour tissue.

My personal experience with ATD and Formex (did not use TD Form) is a stronger Estrogen supression with ATD but Formex feels a lot better and provides me with real gains in the gym, I like it way more while on. However when I go off Formex I get a huge estro rebound and gyno aggrevation I do not get when going off ATD.