powerfull vs Bulk 1-carboxy-2-amino-3-pyrobenzo
- 09-05-2007, 01:05 PM
- 09-05-2007, 01:20 PM
- 09-05-2007, 01:40 PM
pyrobenzol is an archaic alternative name for benzene so breaking the name down it appears that it either is a screwed up name for L-dopa or it is sort of a butanoic acid derivative of l-dopa (which has a propionic acid side chain). but if it is the latter then it would not be a dopamine precursor at all
I think they tried to be fancy with the name and messed up. what they should have said (and not that the structure of the name is right anyway) was
bottom line is, this is not a derivative of L-dopa. It is just L-dopa plain and simple
09-05-2007, 01:53 PM
Isn't a typo in the ingredients for a product fall under 'mislabeling' supplements and illegal ? Even if it is a typo it is not exactly the name of the ingredient. While 99.9% of the IUPAC nomenclature is correct, we all know a number,dash,bond location, etc makes a world difference, but by law, supplements need to have accurate labeling of their products ?
09-05-2007, 01:53 PM
I wasn't impressed with PowerFULL, and USP wasn't impressed with me for saying so...
09-05-2007, 01:57 PM
09-05-2007, 02:01 PM
09-05-2007, 02:04 PM
09-05-2007, 02:11 PM
09-05-2007, 02:12 PM
Maybe they weren't so far off about that BBB thing:
1: Exp Neurol. 2005 Sep;195(1):267-71. Links
An active transport system in the blood-brain barrier may reduce levodopa availability.Hawkins RA, Mokashi A, Simpson IA.
Levodopa, the primary drug used to treat patients with Parkinson's disease, is transported into the brain by the facilitative amino acid transporter (L1). We present here an unanticipated discovery: levodopa may be pumped out of the brain by a Na(+)-dependent transport system that couples the naturally occurring Na(+) gradient existing between the brain's extracellular fluid and the cytoplasm of capillary endothelial cells. The activity of this system reduces the net availability of levodopa.
09-05-2007, 02:15 PM
09-05-2007, 02:16 PM
Unless my brain chemistry has changed since using the L-dopa, and I'm handling the same compound differently...which I suppose could be the case with what goes in and out of my brain on a daily basis.
09-05-2007, 02:35 PM
This study is interesting to, from July of '07:
: Pharm Res. 2007 Jul;24(7):1309-24. Epub 2007 Apr 3. Links
Novel L-Dopa and dopamine prodrugs containing a 2-phenyl-imidazopyridine moiety.Denora N, Laquintana V, Lopedota A, Serra M, Dazzi L, Biggio G, Pal D, Mitra AK, Latrofa A, Trapani G, Liso G.
PURPOSE: The aim of this study was to gain insight into the feasibility of enhancing the delivery of L-Dopa and dopamine to the brain by linking these neurotransmitters and L-Dopa ethyl ester to 2-phenyl-3-carboxymethyl-imidazopyridine compounds giving rise to the so-called Dopimid compounds. MATERIALS AND METHODS: A number of Dopimid compounds were synthesized and both stability and binding studies to dopaminergic and benzodiazepine receptors were performed. To evaluate whether Dopimid compounds are P-gp substrates, [(3)H]ritonavir uptake experiments and bi-directional transport studies on confluent MDCKII-MDR1 monolayers were carried out. The brain penetration properties of Dopimid compounds were estimated by the Clark's computational model and evaluated by investigation of their transport across BBMECs monolayers. The dopamine levels following the intraperitoneal administration of the selected Dopimid compounds were measured in vivo by using brain microdialysis in rat. RESULTS: Tested compounds were adequately stable in solution buffered at pH 7.4 but undergo faster cleavage in dilute rat serum at 37 degrees C. Receptor binding studies showed that Dopimid compounds are essentially devoid of affinity for dopaminergic and benzodiazepine receptors. [(3)H]ritonavir uptake experiments indicated that selected Dopimid compounds, like L-Dopa and dopamine hydrochloride, are not substrates of P-gp and it was also confirmed by bi-directional transport experiments across MDCKII-MDR1 monolayers. By Clark's model a significant brain penetration was deduced for L-Dopa ethyl ester and dopamine derivatives. Transport studies involving BBMECs monolayers indicated that some of these compounds should be able to cross the BBB. Interestingly, the rank order of apparent permeability (P (app)) values observed in these assays parallels that calculated by the computational approach. Brain microdialysis experiments in rat showed that intraperitoneal acute administration of some Dopimid compounds induced a dose-dependent increase in cortical dopamine output. CONCLUSION: Based on these results, it may be concluded that some Dopimid compounds can be proposed as novel L-Dopa and dopamine prodrugs.
PMID: 17404814 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
09-05-2007, 03:43 PM
whatever the case, they really threw me for a a "WTF?" by saying that L-dopa does not cross the blood brain barrier.
certainly the derivative in the abstract there is too sophisticated and expensive for a supplement. and if you were gonna get that complex you are better served spending the resources and intellectual capital on more promising avenues then L-dopa
09-05-2007, 04:10 PM
I never heard anyone say it was a precursor. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't, but I would imagine there could be other ways for it to raise dopamine levels. I've had suspicions about a few other products by USPLabs (ingredients with uncommon names), but I try to keep an open mind about it.
Here's what they had on their writeup about 1-C, in case you hadn't seen it.
A few years back a compound hit the bodybuilding scene with a lot of promise. It had great scientific research to back it up. That compound’s name was L-Dopa.
As you may know, L-Dopa could never duplicate it’s scientific performance in the real world. For one reason: L-Dopa could never cross the blood brain barrier…it would get absorbed in the blood stream and all hope of increased HGH production was lost!
In order for the brain to turn L-Dopa into dopamine…and therefore shoot HGH levels through the roof…this major obstacle had to be overcome…
At USP Labs we knew if we could come up with a bioavailable form of L-Dopa that had the ability to cross the blood/brain barrier it would help bodybuilders everywhere increase natural HGH release, natural Testosterone production, drive sex drive through the roof, build muscle, lose body fat and sleep like a rock.
Well, you will be glad when you hear we have succeeded! But, we totally skipped the L-Dopa part and discovered a brand new compound that’s closely related and is readily available for the body to use!
It’s called 1-C and it’s here to rock your world…
1-C, or 1-carboxy-2-amino-3-pyrobenzol(3,4 diol), is closely related to l-Dopa. In the past, many supplements touted L-Dopa as the next BIG THING in the supplement industry, but if failed miserably.
Synthetic L-dopa was created by the pharmaceutical industry to use in Parkisons disease to increase Dopamine levels that could increase muscle coordination. The research was good and bad mainly because Parkisons is not a well understood disease yet.
Again, in a study done in India, it was found that 1-C (a natural l-Dopa derivative) increased HGH levels through increasing dopamine levels naturally.
09-05-2007, 04:27 PM
09-05-2007, 04:40 PM
09-05-2007, 04:43 PM
i am aware of that
but surely this would be a compound i would be familiar with, and others would be familiar with if it indeed is present in mucura puriens along with l-dopa
you are a nice guy so why don't you enquire with usp about this. i hope they don't play the "propietary information" game
09-05-2007, 04:46 PM
All this L-dopa talk makes me think of Leonard...
09-05-2007, 04:51 PM
09-05-2007, 04:55 PM
09-05-2007, 07:11 PM
looks like PA been smoking a little too much L dopa judging by the pic
09-05-2007, 07:31 PM
i must have some serious placebo going on with my powerfull then if pat arnolds right
09-05-2007, 07:33 PM
i just dont understand how pat would say something like that when i know for sure most people seem to love powerfull and among all the people a small sample size must be proving that it works or does something beneficial.
i actually tested powerfull i think a while back got a bunch of pills in mail i dont honestly remember anything from it i think i continued to succed in my workouts and whatever but nothing that i remember being amazing. im not bashing powerfull i hope or look foward to trying it again soon.
09-05-2007, 07:35 PM
•From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Placebo effect is the term applied by medical science to the therapeutical and healing effects of inert medicines and/or ritualistic or faith healing manipulations. . When referring to medicines, placebo is a preparation which is pharmacologically inert but which may have a therapeutical effect based solely on the power of suggestion. It may be administered in any of the ways in which pharmaceutical products are administered. Regarding placebo procedures, psychic surgery is a clear example.
Sometimes known as non-specific effects or subject-expectancy effects, a so-called placebo effect occurs when a patient's symptoms are altered in some way (i.e., alleviated or exacerbated) by an otherwise inert treatment, due to the individual expecting or believing that it will work. Some people consider this to be a remarkable aspect of human physiology; others consider it to be an illusion arising from the way medical experiments are conducted.
The placebo effect occurs when a patient takes an inert substance (“a sugar pill”) in conjunction with the suggestion from an authority figure that the pill will aid in healing and the patient’s condition improves. This effect has been known for years.
for more information on placebo http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placebo...technical_term)
09-05-2007, 07:44 PM
09-05-2007, 07:50 PM
09-05-2007, 07:51 PM
09-05-2007, 07:53 PM
09-05-2007, 07:54 PM
just throwing it out in the mix
09-05-2007, 07:59 PM
09-05-2007, 07:59 PM
09-05-2007, 08:01 PM
09-05-2007, 08:15 PM
You'll see on their write-up that it says this product has been shown to increase HGH and testosterone; however, this alone (on a scientific basis) does not necessarily mean that it will build muscle. Believe it or not, there were a lot of scientists back in the day who were convinced that Legit Anabolic Steroids wouldn't work. Obviously, research proved them wrong.
09-05-2007, 08:43 PM
09-05-2007, 08:44 PM
Funny how this thread is addressing PowerFULL and there isn't a single USPLabs representative in sight to prove Patrick wrong.
Instead of arguing in behalf of USPLabs, why don't THEY give us the insight as to why PA is wrong and why PowerFULL is still 'off the hook' per se.
Consumer sales do not equal an effective product. All it means is that people are buying it....with various reasons as to why.
If Patrick is really wrong why doesn't the company who produces the product defend itself ? I'm sure a rep has seen this thread.
BTW, if you screwed up on the nomenclature, you are technically 'mislabeling' a product which is illegal.
09-05-2007, 08:52 PM
09-05-2007, 08:54 PM
09-05-2007, 11:46 PM
I'm going to run a series of blood glucose tests on both 1-Carboxy and L-Dopa over the next few days, and compare results.
The only result that would be useful would be a large discrepancy in outcomes...so I'll be looking for that.
I'm thinking I'll set it up like this:
Take morning fasting BG.
Eat a standard meal (or shake) that will remain constant throughout all tests.
Take BG at 60, 90, and 120 min post prandial. This is baseline.
The next day test L-Dopa. Same meal, same time of day.
60min post, I'll take BG and immediately take 250mg L-Dopa
Then take 90, 120, 150min readings.
Next day, test 800mg 1-Carboxy, same fashion
Next day, 500mg L-Dopa, same
Next day, 1600mg 1-Carboxy, same
Patrick, any suggestions?
Now, this is assuming that both compounds should have some effect on post-prandial BG, which may not even be the case. We'll find out.
09-05-2007, 11:53 PM
Awesome. Make sure to post the results !
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