11-oxo = 3-AD???
- 06-28-2007, 01:00 PM
11-oxo = 3-AD???
forgive my ignorance, but several postings have left me thoroughly confused. is 11-oxo the same as 3-AD?
to showcase my confusion, I am taking 11-oxo for cortisol control during my post-cycle therapy. if it indeed is the same as 3-AD, which needs pct, I may be screwing things up. Could someone clear this up for me? Fortunately I am only on day 3, so it's early enough to change without consequences.
- 06-28-2007, 01:01 PM
you NEED post cycle therapy for 11-oxo!
- 06-28-2007, 01:19 PM
Its not a terribly big time PCT for oxo. I am going to be starting mine in about a week or so. I will let you know how it goes. I am taking advanced PCT, Reset AD, Kreaceps, Citruval, and incarnate for mine. If I was worried about libido I would be taking paravol but I just broke up so...
06-28-2007, 01:29 PM
There is some more information at the end of this review I'm doing of 3-AD.
3-AD Super Cutter
That which does not kill us makes us stronger - Friedrich Nietzsche
06-28-2007, 01:31 PM
i was concerned about taking something that requires pct as part of my pct. the product marketing touts it as cortisol controller and makes no mention of requiring pct. The funny yet sad part is i emailed customer service about dosage and in my email told them I was using it for controlling cortisol during my pct, and Jared at customer support raised no red flags...
I will be switching to Retain2.
Also, to NutraPlanet, it might be a good idea to update the product info.
06-28-2007, 01:38 PM
To sum things up:moreover, anabolic steroids upregulate glucocorticoid receptors, which is a VERY bad thing when you quit taking the anabolic steroids. then you will really need something to modify cortisol levels.
From that perspective, it would even make sense to use low-dose 11-oxo for post cycle therapy after any harsh or prolonged anabolic steroids cycle.
PA, just as a idea: I am sure that 11-oxo would be of high interest for the guys int he steroid section who seek something to improve post cycle therapy and minimize muscle loss after cycle.
a very low dose would apparently be not suppressive but sufficient for cortisol modulation.
A) I doubt you were that shut down to begin with.
B) 11-oxo did not ruin your post cycle therapy, it may not have sped it up but your cortisol is in check. It takes a VERY high dose of 11-OXO to be suppressive.
Ergo's marketing claims about 11-OXO have been accurate and down to earth from what I have seen so far.
Calm down, You will be fine.... I love how everyone gets all excited about a proper post cycle therapy yet slamming fistfuls of methyls is commonplace. God I love this industry.
That which does not kill us makes us stronger - Friedrich Nietzsche
06-28-2007, 01:53 PM
06-28-2007, 02:07 PM
it was a 7week havoc cycle, and I just started my pct (day 4), so I dont think its ruined. It would have been nice to know it's not suppressive at low-doses (3caps/day?) and requiring pct at higher (6caps/day?). Being my first cycle/pct, I put a lot of thought into it and chose 11-oxo for cortisol control, and I naturally have that fear of doing things wrong as I lack cycle experience to back me up. sorry for coming a little strong, and I appreciate the advice.
Me thinks I'll save the 11-oxo for my next "on" cycle as pwo cort control.
06-28-2007, 02:27 PM
Maybe good for a pulse cycle? You know just mentioning pulse cyles is becoming so trendy - I'm trendy!
06-28-2007, 02:33 PM
06-28-2007, 02:55 PM
06-28-2007, 03:01 PM
06-28-2007, 03:16 PM
I trolled posts for months before getting the cojones to try my first cycle, with a newbie-friendly ph, and then a few more before coming up with my pct (call it a concensus of all good pcts I have seen in this board).
the gains were really good, went from 224 to 233 with no discernable fat gain, got some nice mass on most bodyparts and nice cuts on the delts. If I can keep my weight at 230 I will be very happy. strength did climb, but I also started DC and I scheduled my 7week blast during my cycle, so I can't tell how much came from DC and how much from havoc. I plan another one in like 4 months, a short 4week w/o the slow ramp, going straight to 40mg. Thinking of adding furazadrol to that one....
06-28-2007, 04:08 PM
06-28-2007, 10:45 PM
06-28-2007, 11:32 PM
06-29-2007, 08:08 AM
06-29-2007, 09:13 AM
yeah, thought about it, but i didn't want a kitchen-sink stack, thought I'd add it if libido still was low or recovery was harder w/o the havoc in my system. didn't know prolactin-inhibition was one of it's effects, might reconsider... right now more interested in getting the right cortisol supp for pct (most likely retain2 or lx)
appreciate the input
06-29-2007, 06:26 PM
he said he is taking 11-oxo for PCT
11-oxo is marketed as a selective cortisol modulator
3-ad as a prohormone
this means 11-oxo dosage is low, according to pat/rushi no PCT is required if dosage is low, unless one decides to megadose on 11-oxo
in your case 3-ad requires PCT because of the higher dosage
11-oxo low dose of for cortisol control should not require PCT
06-29-2007, 06:35 PM
06-29-2007, 06:39 PM
06-30-2007, 09:23 AM
06-30-2007, 09:28 AM
the oxo was just part of my havoc pct, the intended use was to control cortisol. I don't what the dosing/serving is for 3-AD as I yet have to see a label, but I dug a little deeper (which I probably shuld've in the first place) and got this at the ergopharm website
"It is important to mention that being a precursor to the active androgen 11-oxotestosterone, exceeding the recommend dose and duration of use may result in increased risk of androgenic side effects and HPTA suppression. This suppression while minimal at the recommended dosage, can temporarily effect fertility and sex hormone production at higher dosages"
Now, my interest DURING pct was to kickstart HPTA, regardless of how suppressed it was, and with that goal in mind it seems counterproductive to take something that is suppressive (minimally or not). There are other ways to control cortisol that are not suppresive, so I will opt for those (actually bought LX last night).
this is not to say 11-oxo is a bad product, I am saving the bottle for my next cycle, for me it was just the wrong product for pct.
06-30-2007, 09:33 AM
06-30-2007, 03:39 PM
07-03-2007, 12:54 PM
07-03-2007, 02:11 PM
PA, didn't want to get anyone in trouble, by the same token I wanted to add credibility to my statement of contacting you guys so I used his name.
07-03-2007, 02:41 PM
07-03-2007, 03:17 PM
07-03-2007, 03:29 PM
07-03-2007, 03:55 PM
07-03-2007, 04:02 PM
Somebody is gonna get an ass whooping ?? I want VIDEO FEED !!!!!!!
07-03-2007, 04:03 PM
07-03-2007, 11:39 PM
Or maybe it's like that Robot Chicken star wars bit, where they all play along to make Vader believe he has mental choking powers, because the option would be to get sliced and diced with his lightsaber.
07-04-2007, 08:34 AM
2. Increase your est
3. Smoke a dube / eat a hash brownie.
4. Maybe be kind to employee's of your company and show them compassion or treat them how you would want to be treated.
No one wants to be screamed at or physically threatened ( well not for free or from anyone not called Trixie the dominatrix )
07-05-2007, 01:34 PM
[QUOTE=Patrick Arnold;882004]i am gonna slap him
where the f*ck is he[/QUOTE
First of all I dont ever remember sending an email to anyone saying to use 11oxo for a pct any pct recommendations would have been 6oxo or 6oxo extreme.I get hundreds of emails a day and I try to respond back to them quickly I do sometimes get a brain fart.I am personally doing a 11oxo Havoc stack and it is working very well I must say.
Second Pa bring it on anytime you know where my desk is at.
07-05-2007, 01:49 PM
07-05-2007, 01:54 PM
07-05-2007, 02:44 PM
Sent: Monday, June 25, 2007 11:29 AM
To: 'email@example.com '
Subject: 11-OXO question
About to start my pct, will be using 11-oxo for cortisol control. Is there an ideal dosing time, or is breakfast ok? Is 3caps a day good, should I spread them during the day or take in one sitting? I hope 3/day is good enough, twice a day would make this prohibitively too expensive for a 4-week pct.
Thanks for the info
to which the response was to minimally dose 3.
Brain farts are ok, they happen.... I'ts all the reading I do in AM that made me wonder after a couple of days as 11-oxo questions starting coming out. Caught early enough, no harm, no foul, will actually do a similar stack to yours in a couple of months. Are you dosing 3 or 6/day, and how much havoc?
07-05-2007, 02:54 PM
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