[rxp1997]

forgive my ignorance, but several postings have left me thoroughly confused. is 11-oxo the same as 3-AD?

to showcase my confusion, I am taking 11-oxo for cortisol control during my post-cycle therapy. if it indeed is the same as 3-AD, which needs pct, I may be screwing things up. Could someone clear this up for me? Fortunately I am only on day 3, so it's early enough to change without consequences.

[macedaddy]

YES!

you NEED post cycle therapy for 11-oxo!

[brywal312]

Its not a terribly big time PCT for oxo. I am going to be starting mine in about a week or so. I will let you know how it goes. I am taking advanced PCT, Reset AD, Kreaceps, Citruval, and incarnate for mine. If I was worried about libido I would be taking paravol but I just broke up so...

[Alpine]

Originally Posted by rxp1997

forgive my ignorance, but several postings have left me thoroughly confused. is 11-oxo the same as 3-AD?

to showcase my confusion, I am taking 11-oxo for cortisol control during my post-cycle therapy. if it indeed is the same as 3-AD, which needs post cycle therapy, I may be screwing things up. Could someone clear this up for me? Fortunately I am only on day 3, so it's early enough to change without consequences.

Yes, 3-AD/11-OXO can be suppressive although not very much. It is mild. At low doses you wouldnt see much suppression. It shouldn't be thought of as a post cycle therapy compound though. Honestly, at a low/normal dose for only 4 weeks a 18-30 year old male should bounce back EXTREMELY well from 11-OXO/3-AD alone. I dont even know if it would require a long SERM based post cycle therapy like most androgens and pro-hormones (designers). If you have a SERM a couple weeks wont hurt I guess. Just keep in mind its not horribly suppressive. I highly doubt you will notice any testicle atrophy and this is the main sign that you are shut down. A lot of guys in the 80's and early 90's didnt even know what the hell PCT was... LOL

There is some more information at the end of this review I'm doing of 3-AD.

3-AD Super Cutter

[rxp1997]

i was concerned about taking something that requires pct as part of my pct. the product marketing touts it as cortisol controller and makes no mention of requiring pct. The funny yet sad part is i emailed customer service about dosage and in my email told them I was using it for controlling cortisol during my pct, and Jared at customer support raised no red flags...

I will be switching to Retain2.

Also, to NutraPlanet, it might be a good idea to update the product info.

[Alpine]

Originally Posted by rxp1997

i was concerned about taking something that requires post cycle therapy as part of my post cycle therapy. the product marketing touts it as cortisol controller and makes no mention of requiring post cycle therapy. The funny yet sad part is i emailed customer service about dosage and in my email told them I was using it for controlling cortisol during my post cycle therapy, and Jared at customer support raised no red flags...

I will be switching to Retain2.

Also, to NutraPlanet, it might be a good idea to update the product info.

Well, to be quite honest, If you were coming off a REAL cycle (test, tren, etc.) this probably WOULD be very beneficial for keeping cortisol in check during a long, slow recovery process. This type of situation does not occur with normal, short prohormone cycles and especially not 11-OXO.

moreover, anabolic steroids upregulate glucocorticoid receptors, which is a VERY bad thing when you quit taking the anabolic steroids. then you will really need something to modify cortisol levels.
From that perspective, it would even make sense to use low-dose 11-oxo for post cycle therapy after any harsh or prolonged anabolic steroids cycle.

PA, just as a idea: I am sure that 11-oxo would be of high interest for the guys int he steroid section who seek something to improve post cycle therapy and minimize muscle loss after cycle.

a very low dose would apparently be not suppressive but sufficient for cortisol modulation.

To sum things up:

A) I doubt you were that shut down to begin with.
B) 11-oxo did not ruin your post cycle therapy, it may not have sped it up but your cortisol is in check. It takes a VERY high dose of 11-OXO to be suppressive.

Ergo's marketing claims about 11-OXO have been accurate and down to earth from what I have seen so far.

Calm down, You will be fine.... I love how everyone gets all excited about a proper post cycle therapy yet slamming fistfuls of methyls is commonplace. God I love this industry.

[brywal312]

Originally Posted by Alpine

Calm down, You will be fine.... I love how everyone gets all excited about a proper post cycle therapy yet slamming fistfuls of methyls is commonplace. God I love this industry.

Yeah, who cares about my liver as long as I dont get B17C# tits...

[rxp1997]

it was a 7week havoc cycle, and I just started my pct (day 4), so I dont think its ruined. It would have been nice to know it's not suppressive at low-doses (3caps/day?) and requiring pct at higher (6caps/day?). Being my first cycle/pct, I put a lot of thought into it and chose 11-oxo for cortisol control, and I naturally have that fear of doing things wrong as I lack cycle experience to back me up. sorry for coming a little strong, and I appreciate the advice.

Me thinks I'll save the 11-oxo for my next "on" cycle as pwo cort control.

[flytrapcan]

Maybe good for a pulse cycle? You know just mentioning pulse cyles is becoming so trendy - I'm trendy!

[thewilman]

Originally Posted by rxp1997

it was a 7week havoc cycle, and I just started my post cycle therapy (day 4), so I dont think its ruined.

Hey RXP...what are you taking for PCT besides 11-OXO?

[rxp1997]

Originally Posted by thewilman

Hey RXP...what are you taking for post cycle therapy besides 11-OXO?

torem 120/90/60/30
atd 25/50/50/75
maca, fenugeek, paravol
TNA (the usplabs kind until libido kicks in, then hopefully some of the female kind )
11-oxo
adding MassFX to keep strength gains in weeks 2-4
cycle support
Poseidon

[thewilman]

Originally Posted by rxp1997

torem 120/90/60/30
atd 25/50/50/75
maca, fenugeek, paravol
TNA (the usplabs kind until libido kicks in, then hopefully some of the female kind )
11-oxo
adding MassFX to keep strength gains in weeks 2-4
cycle support
Poseidon

Phew! I thought you were taking 11-OXO ALONE for a 7 week Havoc cycle. I think as long as you drop the 11-OXO, you'll be fine w/ Torem and ATD. Well planned PCT. Consider Lean Xtreme for Cortisol. Good luck!

BTW, how were your gains after 7 weeks on Havoc?

[rxp1997]

I trolled posts for months before getting the cojones to try my first cycle, with a newbie-friendly ph, and then a few more before coming up with my pct (call it a concensus of all good pcts I have seen in this board).

the gains were really good, went from 224 to 233 with no discernable fat gain, got some nice mass on most bodyparts and nice cuts on the delts. If I can keep my weight at 230 I will be very happy. strength did climb, but I also started DC and I scheduled my 7week blast during my cycle, so I can't tell how much came from DC and how much from havoc. I plan another one in like 4 months, a short 4week w/o the slow ramp, going straight to 40mg. Thinking of adding furazadrol to that one....

[thewilman]

Originally Posted by rxp1997

I trolled posts for months before getting the cojones to try my first cycle, with a newbie-friendly ph, and then a few more before coming up with my post cycle therapy (call it a concensus of all good pcts I have seen in this board).

the gains were really good, went from 224 to 233 with no discernable fat gain, got some nice mass on most bodyparts and nice cuts on the delts. If I can keep my weight at 230 I will be very happy. strength did climb, but I also started DC and I scheduled my 7week blast during my cycle, so I can't tell how much came from DC and how much from havoc. I plan another one in like 4 months, a short 4week w/o the slow ramp, going straight to 40mg. Thinking of adding furazadrol to that one....

You did a great job. Nice gains. There's some posts about stacking furazadrol and epi/havoc around. Looks like an interesting stack.

[macedaddy]

Originally Posted by rxp1997

torem 120/90/60/30
atd 25/50/50/75
maca, fenugeek, paravol
TNA (the usplabs kind until libido kicks in, then hopefully some of the female kind )
11-oxo
adding MassFX to keep strength gains in weeks 2-4
cycle support
Poseidon

just so you know, the ATD will most likely KILL your libido........