What is the maxium dose of PEA you've dosed?

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    What is the maxium dose of PEA you've dosed?


    Hey Its Valentines day and I want to dose my Pea. Whats the highest youve gone?

    Btw PEa is foun in amino acids right. The recommend dose is 100 mgs but in actuality if you look at the protein powder amino acids the pea is high than this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by smeton_yea View Post
    Btw PEa is foun in amino acids right. The recommend dose is 100 mgs but in actuality if you look at the protein powder amino acids the pea is high than this.
    What?

    PEA= phenylethylamine. It is a derivative of the amino acid Phenylalanine.
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    Most I've dosed is 125mg's. My blood pressure starts going up quite a bit at that point.
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    I think I took 350mg with 200mg Hordenine as my largest one time dose....I was very dissapointed with PEA in that it works once (or twice) but then a tolerance hangs around for a long time after.

    My first doses were in the 100-200mg range.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thesinner View Post
    What?

    PEA= phenylethylamine. It is a derivative of the amino acid Phenylalanine.
    Thanks for pointing this out. Reps for you. i thought they were the same exact thing. I understad how derivative works but saying all that to say this..The the PEA deriv before or after the amino acid Phenylalaine? Do you get what im sayng?

    Example Test is the real thing

    Andro(or like 1ad) is a deriv

    Is Pea the main one, that the amino acid Phenylalaine covert too or is it switched around?

    Science I know=)
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    phenylalanine converts to PEA. It also converts to other things (PEA being one of them.)
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    I used it a couple time at 200mg, didnt notice much. Went up to 400mg and still didnt notice jack. I stick with Phenibut a few hours before a few drinks (coupled with about 4-5 clear edge), that's been my favorite relax stack as of late. I might try to get a hold of some hordenine to see if that helps with the PEA.
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    Highest Ive gone was 225mg with 75mg of hordenine. I'm lucky as I don't seem to ever build up a tolerance to the stuff. Anything over 225mg just gives me a headache. Too bad I have never responded to phenibut as that sounds kind of nice as well (6g wont even phase me)
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    6 grams of phen would have me dizzy for a few days and covering the porceline thrown with a previous meal. I went as high as about 2.5-3 grams and the 2nd day after I was extremely dizzy and somewhat nautious so I try to keep it right under 2 grams. How does PEA feel? I just get kinda relaxed, less anxious, and more talkative on phen.
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    Quote Originally Posted by z28man View Post
    6 grams of phen would have me dizzy for a few days and covering the porceline thrown with a previous meal. I went as high as about 2.5-3 grams and the 2nd day after I was extremely dizzy and somewhat nautious so I try to keep it right under 2 grams. How does PEA feel? I just get kinda relaxed, less anxious, and more talkative on phen.
    I had a friend over to 1st try Phenibut with me at 3g (I had tried 1 and 2g previously and nothing). Hehe I seemed to like it but is kind of scared of it now. I don't know why perhaps because I capped it so that made it hardcore and the effect kind of sneaks up on you? He had a couple beers with about 2 hours after and he was finding everything funny. For me Pea doesn't relax me but doesn't wire me up it makes me more talkative, social (Im not very social) and better mood. It almost sounds like Pea is for AM use and Phen is for PM use for similar situations
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    Thought this be of interest:

    Sustained antidepressant
    effect of PEA replacement
    by
    Sabelli H; Fink P; Fawcett J; Tom C
    Rush University and the Center for
    Creative Development, Chicago, Illinois, USA.
    J Neuropsychiatry Clin Neurosci, 1996 Spr, 8:2, 168-71

    ABSTRACT
    Phenylethylamine (PEA), an endogenous neuroamine, increases attention and activity in animals and has been shown to relieve depression in 60% of depressed patients. It has been proposed that PEA deficit may be the cause of a common form of depressive illness. Fourteen patients with major depressive episodes that responded to PEA treatment (10-60 mg orally per day, with 10 mg/day selegiline to prevent rapid PEA destruction) were reexamined 20 to 50 weeks later. The antidepressant response had been maintained in 12 patients. Effective dosage did not change with time. There were no apparent side effects. PEA produces sustained relief of depression in a significant number of patients, including some unresponsive to the standard treatments. PEA improves mood as rapidly as amphetamine but does not produce tolerance.
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    Question


    I'm currently taking 2.5mg mg/day selegiline, I wonder if that would prevent rapid PEA destruction ?
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    Quote Originally Posted by FYI777 View Post

    ABSTRACT
    Phenylethylamine (PEA), an endogenous neuroamine, increases attention and activity in animals and has been shown to relieve depression in 60% of depressed patients. It has been proposed that PEA deficit may be the cause of a common form of depressive illness. Fourteen patients with major depressive episodes that responded to PEA treatment (10-60 mg orally per day, with 10 mg/day selegiline to prevent rapid PEA destruction) were reexamined 20 to 50 weeks later. The antidepressant response had been maintained in 12 patients. Effective dosage did not change with time. There were no apparent side effects. PEA produces sustained relief of depression in a significant number of patients, including some unresponsive to the standard treatments. PEA improves mood as rapidly as amphetamine but does not produce tolerance.
    Interesting study. However, it means virtually nothing because:

    1) There was no control group, and the placebo effect with depression is hyoooooge.

    2) Selegiline alone improves mood.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TeamSavage View Post
    2) Selegiline alone improves mood.
    Yes, I like the effects of Selegiline.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Motomatt View Post
    I'm currently taking 2.5mg mg/day selegiline, I wonder if that would prevent rapid PEA destruction ?
    PEA is really sensitive to the MAO enzymes, so I would imagine any MAOI would help.
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    Quote Originally Posted by smeton_yea View Post
    Thanks for pointing this out. Reps for you. i thought they were the same exact thing. I understad how derivative works but saying all that to say this..The the PEA deriv before or after the amino acid Phenylalaine? Do you get what im sayng?

    Example Test is the real thing

    Andro(or like 1ad) is a deriv

    Is Pea the main one, that the amino acid Phenylalaine covert too or is it switched around?

    Science I know=)
    Just FYI PEA only comes from the synthetic form DL-phenylalanine.The natural L-phenylalanine converts to tyrosine.
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    Quote Originally Posted by gaberox View Post
    Just FYI PEA only comes from the synthetic form DL-phenylalanine.The natural L-phenylalanine converts to tyrosine.
    I think you're on the right track, but a little mixed up with your facts. There's D-Phenylalanine and L-Phenylalanine. Both convert to PEA; however, D-Phenylalanine can increase PEA levels because it goes through a different pathway as the L isomer.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thesinner View Post
    I think you're on the right track, but a little mixed up with your facts. There's D-Phenylalanine and L-Phenylalanine. Both convert to PEA; however, D-Phenylalanine can increase PEA levels because it goes through a different pathway as the L isomer.
    Huh?From what I have read the L form converts to tyrosine and Im guessing the DL must be a racemic(sp) mixture used in most commercial pa products.Not saying your wrong just never heard the L form converts to PEA.Interesting stuff either way.
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    Here we go.


    L-Phenylalanine (LPA) is an electrically-neutral amino acid, one of the twenty common amino acids used to biochemically form proteins, coded for by DNA. L-phenylalanine is used in living organisms, including the human body, where it is an essential amino acid. L-phenylalanine can also be converted into L-tyrosine, another one of the twenty protein-forming amino acids. L-tyrosine is converted into L-DOPA, which is further converted into dopamine, norepinephrine, and epinephrine (latter three are known as the catecholamines).

    D-phenylalanine

    D-phenylalanine (DPA), can be synthesized artificially. D-phenylalanine can be converted only into phenylethylamine. D-phenylalanine is a non-protein amino acid, meaning that it does not participate in protein biosynthesis. D-phenylalanine and other D-amino acids are, however, found in proteins, in small amounts, particularly aged proteins and food proteins that have been processed. The biological functions of D-amino acids remain unclear. Some D-amino acids, such as D-phenylalanine, may have pharmacologic activity.

    DL-phenylalanine

    DL-phenylalanine is a racemic mixture of phenylalanine - it contains 50 % each of D and L enantiomers. DL-Phenylalanine is marketed as a nutritional supplement for its putative analgesic and antidepressant activities.

    The putative analgesic activity of DL-phenylalanine may be explained by the possible blockage by D-phenylalanine of enkephalin degradation by the enzyme carboxypeptidase A. The mechanism of DL-phenylalanine's putative antidepressant activity may be accounted for by the precursor role of L-phenylalanine in the synthesis of the neurotransmitters norepinephrine and dopamine. Elevated brain norepinephrine and dopamine levels are thought to be associated with antidepressant effects.
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    Yeah, D and L are enantiomers, so they sythesize a racemic product; hence, D,L- phenylalanine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Novick


    D,L-Phenylalanine
    By Andrew Novick


    Antidepressant drugs that modulate the neurotransmitters serotonin and norepinephrine can often take up to 6 weeks to produce substantial response. This delayed response phenomenon is one of the most commonly cited flaws of the SSRI’s and related drugs. There are, however, other classes of drugs that are known to produce much more rapid relief of even the most severe depressions. Dopaminergic stimulants such as amphetamines as well as opiates like morphine are quite possibly the most powerful and fast acting antidepressants available. Their fast action lies in the modulation of the dopamine and opiate receptor complexes. Unfortunately, due to issues of tolerance and abuse potential, amphetamines and opiates are tightly controlled and not widely prescribed for depression.

    So, if the key to a quick antidepressant response lies within the dopamine and opiate systems, are there any natural supplements that have the ability to upregulate these systems? This is where DLPA comes in. DLPA plays an important role in providing the building blocks for dopamine and phenylethylamine (the body’s natural amphetamine) and has the ability to greatly increase the action of our endorphins (the body’s natural morphine).

    DLPA, is a 50:50 mixture of the D and L isomers of phenylalanine. It was found to be as effective as the tricyclic antidepressant imipramine in relieving depressive symptoms (17), can be used to treat ADHD (18) as well as potentiate opiate analgesia (16).

    L-Phenylalanine, the form that is found in most foods, is an essential amino acid that can be converted into L-tyrosine (the precursor to norepinephrine and dopamine, for more info see David Tolson’s article on Tyrosine). But unlike L-tyrosine, L-phenyalanine is a direct precursor to phenylethylamine (PEA). L-phenylalanine is converted to PEA at a rate similar to that of L-tyrosine to dopamine (1). PEA acts as an endogenous amphetamine in the brain that promotes energy, elevates mood, and favors aggression (2).A deficit of PEA is implicated in ADHD and depression while too much PEA might be a part of schizophrenia (3). When administered with the MAOI l-deprenyl, PEA improves mood similar to amphetamine but without tolerance (9).

    L-phenyalanine is readily absorbed across the brain-blood-barrier (4), and while there is conflicting evidence to as whether increases in dietary phenylalanine leads to increased levels of PEA in the brain (5,6), L-phenylalanine can improve mood and relieve depression when orally administered alone (7) and with the MAOI l-deprenyl (8).

    D-phenylalanine has similar nutritional value to L-phenylalanine (10) and can lead to increases in PEA, though a different pathway than the L enantiomer (11). What makes the D-phenylalanine remarkable is its ability to inhibit the enzyme enkephalinase and prevent the degradation of endorphins (13). Endorphins induce analgesia (pain relief) and probably play a role in DLPA’s mood enhancing effects. Although D-phenylalanine appears to be ineffective by itself for reducing chronic pain (14), it can greatly pontentiate the pain relieving effects of both acupuncture and narcotic drugs such as morphine (15,16).
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    Quote Originally Posted by thesinner View Post
    Yeah, D and L are enantiomers, so they sythesize a racemic product; hence, D,L- phenylalanine.
    Cool.
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    Both increase PEA levels, Pea directly and L-phenyalanine indirectly by acting directly as a precursor. Nice
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    To feel any significant effects from PEA, you'll need an MAO-B inhibitor at least 15-20 minutes beforehand (up to 4 hours beforehand depending on the compound).

    5mg Selegeline (Deprenyl) works wonders.

    Follow it up with 100-200mg for a noticeable mood elevation, or 600-800mg for a full on euphoric adventure. I've gone up to 1g, but that was a mistake. Unpleasant to say the least.

    Slight nausea is common when it starts to kick in, even at the low doses...but it's mild and acute.

    Some people don't get much out of it other than side effects, but plenty of folks (myself included) find it to be a hell of a compound.

    One thing is for sure, it tastes worse than a burning tire.

    Edit: One more thing, Selegeline is better absorbed with food, the PEA is better absorbed without. You can take the Selegeline with a small amount of food, then wait 45min or so to ingest the PEA if you're not feeling the effects from taking both on an empty stomach.
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    Thanks for that Dr Gozo does No sell Selegeline. If not Hordinine would be taken the same way right? Forty five minutes before

    Another thing PEA can be taking anytime right?
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    Quote Originally Posted by smeton_yea View Post
    Thanks for that Dr Gozo does No sell Selegeline. If not Hordinine would be taken the same way right? Forty five minutes before

    Another thing PEA can be taking anytime right?
    selegeline is a research chem.
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    Quote Originally Posted by z28man View Post
    6 grams of phen would have me dizzy for a few days and covering the porceline thrown with a previous meal.
    Jigga' what?!

    6 grams of phenibut at once??

    No wonder you were hugging an ass can and feeling like a vegetable for days.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Savage View Post
    Jigga' what?!

    6 grams of phenibut at once??

    No wonder you were hugging an ass can and feeling like a vegetable for days.
    Bah 6g of phenibut is nothing. Hmmm perhaps I should of tried 12g to see if that did anything.

    *disclaimer*: I'm a freak so don't try this at home...
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    Quote Originally Posted by TeamSavage View Post
    Interesting study. However, it means virtually nothing because:

    1) There was no control group, and the placebo effect with depression is hyoooooge.

    2) Selegiline alone improves mood.
    Selegiline alone raises PEA via phenylalanine pathways but adding it in at 10-60mg.(!) probably works better.

    Thought only DLPA was used for PEA production but L version also via L-tyrosine,thanks sinner and gaberox.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FYI777 View Post
    Selegiline alone raises PEA via phenylalanine pathways but adding it in at 10-60mg.(!) probably works better.
    True... but it also raises levels of every other amine neurotransmitter. PEA effects probably plays a minor role (if any) in the effectiveness of selegiline as an antidepressant.
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    Took a dose of 800mg today and talk about a rush,first it weas euphoric then my skin turned red like a niacin rush and I felt warm,it lasted for about 1 hour.I would not recomend doing this everyone is different and you may have a bad reaction.PS: 1 hour later the toilet was calling...
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaDmaN View Post
    PS: 1 hour later the toilet was calling...
    Thats no fun.
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    Ive been dosing one hundred mgs. Feels pretty good.
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    everyone says it feels good, but what exactly do you feel?
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    improved mood. Relaxation, a laid back chilled feeling in a eurphoria state.
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    Quote Originally Posted by smeton_yea View Post
    Thanks for that Dr Gozo does No sell Selegeline. If not Hordinine would be taken the same way right? Forty five minutes before

    Another thing PEA can be taking anytime right?
    Selegeline is a prescription drug (not just a research chem), used to treat Alzheimers as well as Parkinsons when co-administered with L-dopa.

    It works mainly by selectively inhibiting monoamine-oxidase B, which is the enzyme responsible for eliminating dopamine, so this leads to increased brain levels of dopamine.

    When PEA is taken orally, MAO-B degrades the compound rapidly, so not much of an effect is felt (although some effect can be noticed, it's not extremely pronounced). This will vary from person to person as well depending on how efficiently their body degrades the PEA.

    By taking the deprenyl and knocking out MAO-B, you feel a pronounced effect from the PEA since it remains active in the brain. Hordenine has a similar effect on MAO-B, but not as much.

    A high dose of PEA with an MAO-B inhibitor leads to intense euphoria, so much that it will take your breath away for a few minutes, and the euphoria lasts from 45 minutes up to a couple of hours. The higher the dose, the worse the after effect. Feelings of agitation and irritiability and extreme sobriety typically follow the experience.

    The high doses (600-800mg) are fun to try occasionaly, but I would stick to the 100-200mg range coupled with an MAO-B inhibitor for regular use as a mood elevator.
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    What MAO-B inhibitor(s) do you recommend for the Intense euphoria ?
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    Huperzine is a name I hear thrown out a lot with PEA for it's MAOI capabilities.
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    Quote Originally Posted by prld2gr8ns View Post
    Huperzine is a name I hear thrown out a lot with PEA for it's MAOI capabilities.
    Are you sure you mean huperzine and not hordenine?
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    Quote Originally Posted by TeamSavage View Post
    True... but it also raises levels of every other amine neurotransmitter. PEA effects probably plays a minor role (if any) in the effectiveness of selegiline as an antidepressant.

    Selegiline is called a "maoB inhibitor" and not just a "mao inhibitor" because it selectively and preferentially inhibits the mao degrading dopamine and apperently PEA among others no doubt but not all amines.At high doses tho it also inhibits maoA. How much of a role PEA plays in depression no doubt depends on that specific individual biochemistry,some need more serotonin,some norepinephrine,some dopamine and maybe some PEA.You don't see the "cheese effect" with selegiline which makes it far safer than the older standby mao's like Nardil,Parnate ect.Hence the selectivity.

    One caveat tho: with PEA I could imagine it raising blood pressure at least transiently so if you have high blood pressure that would be a contradiction to it's use.This also applys to L and DL Phenylalanine by the way.
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    Huperzine is a name I hear thrown out a lot with PEA for it's MAOI capabilities.
    Huperzine is an acetylcholinesterase inhibitor, not an MAO-B inhibitor.

    What MAO-B inhibitor(s) do you recommend for the Intense euphoria ?
    Deprenyl (Selegeline). Hordenine would be a 2nd choice.
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