What do you think is the perfect post workout recipe??
12-01-2006 09:29 PM
What do you think is the perfect post workout recipe??
What do you guys consider to be the ultimate post workout supplement routine/recipe???
My post workout routine needs to be improved I think.
Currently,I take a serving of Storm + Universal BCAA Stack(Bcaa's + Glutamine) right after I'm done with my last rep.
About 20-25 minutes later,I'll drink a shake with 40 grams of whey protein,ingest some fast carbs like 2 Bananas or Dextrose,and take 3 tables of Uni-Liver and one capsule of Vitamin C & E.
Should I tweak anything?? Maybe add some more bulk BCAA's to the Storm/Bcaa mix,or maybe take some Dextrose with it aswell??
12-03-2006 04:00 AM
THIS SUCKS! I'm not talking out of my ass either b/c I've given a presentation on this subject and written an article on it:
First off I'm not fond of this Storm thing. Show me a single study showing that a NO booster works. And NO boosts are supposed to work via causing vasodilation. Vasodilation does not mean increased uptake into muscle cells. That's the function of GLUT transporters.
Second you are not consuming any carbs or protein immedietly post-workout. Get some carbs and protein in there, preferably whey isolate/hydrosolate and dextrose. BCAAs are a good adjunct like leucine etc. Protein and CHO's together have a synergestic effect on insulin and take you out of a catabolic environment and open the flood gates to the pouring in of nutrients and creating an anabolic environment. Naturally you want to do this as fast as possible.
Well you're not.
You have no carbs and then no protein.
Then you finally get some carbs. But a bannana? Fructose is a slower to metabolize sugar. It needs to be processed in the liver first and is preferentially stored as fat. Also not to mention you're getting it in the form of a banana which has fiber and will slow the rate of absorption. LOW GI!
So here's what you do: First off I don't see any need to waste money on the Storm. Just get yourself some plain old micronized creatine. They're a myriad of studies on it and I believe it works, I have yet to see a study from a manufacturer that shows the other forms of creatine are better.
So take your Storm with both dextrose and either whey isolate or dextrose. The dextrose or some other fastly digesting carb is the most important! This will IMPROVE your insulin sensitivity profile for the rest of the day.
Next what has been showing a lot of benefit is having a shake with some carbs while your training or before. Personally I think a great strategy is a pop tart or two with a shake a half hour before training. Yes I said pop tart.
Also about an hour after your post workout shake have a high carb meal with protein. And eat some more calories man; you sound anorexic for a bodybuilder. This is the most important meal of the day other than breakfast. Are you one of the 120lb 16 y/o's afraid to gain a lab and not see your pretend ab muslces or something? No! You're a 22 y/o male. So Eat up!
Also read my article on the subject:
John Berardi - Optimizing Insulin Sensitivity and Body Composition Through Diet and Exercise
12-03-2006 09:43 AM
My current "routine" is...
Immediatly post workout I have a drink with 2 servings excell, 10g leucine, 2.5g cee, 3g taurine, 1g vit. c, 400iu vit. e, 2 super antioxidants caps (now foods), and 50g of carbs in the form of dextrose/maltodextrin (50/50 mix). Then about 30mins after that I have about 40g whey, 90g of carbs in the form of 50 from dex/malto and 40 from oats with 1 glucophase (designer supps.), 1 opti men multi (optimum nutrition) and 1 super enzyme (now foods). Then 1.5-2 hours after that I'll have "dinner" usually chicken, pasta, bread, veggies and salad.
12-04-2006 03:27 PM
Just before my very last set I chug down.
NOW Foods Carbo gain - 50g MaltoDextrin.
Dymatize Elite Whey - 46g protein.
1 Nature Made Anti-oxidant formula.
I drink my creatine/NO just before and between sets.
1 large scoop Ultimate Nutrition Horsepower, 2.2L water in a jug with about 1/2 a "tub packet" of 4C "Totally Light". 4C "Totally Light" is like Crystal light except it has no aspartame - uses splenda - and has a healthy dose of vitamin C - tastes good too.
UN Horsepower is prob. the best mix of ingredients I know of at a good price. I'd recommend it if you have a shaker and 4C totally light because it tastes.....no so great. Doesnt mix too well unless you shake it up good.
12-04-2006 04:29 PM
2 scoops ON Pro Complex, with some dextrose, is all you need PWO (or at least all I need). If you really want to get fancy, you can add some extra leucine.
And as others have said, it's better to take your PWO whey and carbs immediately PWO.
12-04-2006 04:53 PM
Running with the Big Boys
I use about 30g of whey, 1/2 C of oats, fruit (either a banana, pineapple, or raisins), 200mg of NRALA immediately postworkout. Pre/during I use 4 scoops of Xtend and 1.5 scoops of Substance.
12-04-2006 05:06 PM
Rodja - Do you use the NRALA at other times of the day, or just PWO?
Originally Posted by Rodja
12-04-2006 05:41 PM
Running with the Big Boys
I use it in the morning with breakfast and at night before bed.
Originally Posted by TeamSavage
12-05-2006 11:03 PM
I have experimented many years on what works best for pre/during/post workout nutrition and here's my 2 cents:
1 Hour prior: Hydrolyzed whey or WPI, no carbs
30 minutes before: Creatine, Glycerin(ol) and citrulline malate (this more useful if you do high reps ...ie for 5x5 training its rather useless),
32 ounces of Water
10 minutes before: Chocamine, Coffee, Vitamin E, Vitamin B complex, Rhodiolia Rosea, more water and touch of sodium (the sodium is important) (antioxidants an neural stimulation)
While exercising I drink a hydrolyzed protein 20 grams, BCAA 10 grams, 50%/50% Dextrose/Maltodextrin 60-80 grams (google on that and you will find that 1/1 is the ideal ratio of dextrose/malto ) I also have a very minute of plain sugar 5 grams (sugar packet) mixed with 32 ounce of water. When you drink about half refill with more water.
Do not worry that you won't be able to digest the protein while working out. I guarentee you will be fine if you use hydrolyzed whey, a ton of water and sip on it slowly while working out.
When your done take K-RALA, water with sodium + more creatine. The K-RALA is important if you are trying to loose weight. Later on take more protein. I like Milk isolate protein best because I think whey is seriously overrated. (I'll let you google why whey is kind of overrated) Whey is good for pre and during the workout but for all other times I think it sucks.
12-05-2006 11:27 PM
2 scoops ON Whey with one packet of the Instant Oatmeal the sugery kind.. works great for me
12-06-2006 01:30 AM
PROTEINPOWDA is correct in everything that he is saying!
12-06-2006 11:38 AM
Applied Nutriceuticals Rep.
For me, the best pwo formula is:
-2 scoops GFPro protein (cherry)
-2 scoops Vitargo (orange)
-2 servings excell (love the fruitpunch)
-2oz of goji juice
-2cups of water
Blend and enjoy. It actually tastes really good
12-06-2006 01:51 PM
I do two scoops waxy maize starch, 10g bcaa's, 5g glutamine and 3g cee. I then have real food a half hour later...preferably fish, rice and broccoli.
The above protocol is where I've seen the best results. But every step of the way I've gotten better results. I used to just do protein, then it was protein and simple carbs, then protein and complex carbs and now what I currently do. And each time I've seen better results than the previous.
12-07-2006 12:26 AM
If I mix my Storm with Protein,won't that hinder the absorbtion of it??
I guess I should experiment and see what works best.
Maybe a Grape flavored Isolate mixed with the Storm with be good.
12-07-2006 01:36 AM
I would take the storm either pre workout or half and half.
I would sip the BCAA's right before and during the workout, post workout: whey and fast carbs(dex/malt), then 30 mins later a slow protein(egg whites for me) with oatmeal and blueberries.
Thats if you are eating a real meal 1.5 to 2 hours before you workout, also the amount of carbs and protein depend on how much you weigh.
12-07-2006 01:51 AM
I am faster than 80% of all snakes
Originally Posted by Proteinpowda
Actually its insulin + amino acids that enhance eIF2B.
Protein and CHO's together have a synergestic effect on insulin and take you out of a catabolic environment and open the flood gates to the pouring in of nutrients and creating an anabolic environment.
Speed has little effect, amount does along with amino acid availability. Glycogen resynthesis and protein synthesis are not proportional and glycogen replenishment is biphasic and insulin independent in its first phase.
Naturally you want to do this as fast as possible.
It will have zero effect in a post absortative state.
Also not to mention you're getting it in the form of a banana which has fiber and will slow the rate of absorption. LOW GI!
Wrong. Amino acids are the nutrient signals for protein synthesis. Glycogen replenishment happens regardless and the amount of insulin needed for the syngergistic effect (effect on eIF2B) is small.
The dextrose or some other fastly digesting carb is the most important!
Results of exercise, not a high GI carb source.
This will IMPROVE your insulin sensitivity profile for the rest of the day.
Next what has been showing a lot of benefit is having a shake with some carbs while your training or before.
Not the best option.
Personally I think a great strategy is a pop tart or two with a shake a half hour before training. Yes I said pop tart.
You need more depth and focus beyond just the "protein + carb" synergism that Tipton and Ivy have stated for years. Its not about the GI or insulin really, its about amino acids and the amounts of insulin needed.
I do like much of it though.
12-07-2006 02:50 AM
Originally Posted by Bobo
Wow someone that has read Tipton's stuff....I'm impressed.
If you have other studies about some of the stuff you'd mention send them over and I'd be happy to read them. I am completly unfamiliar with eIF2B though....care to tell me about it?
And yes it's Glut-4 for muscle tissue. I didn't feel that level of detail was neccessary.
As far as I know ingesting CHO's postworkout will enhance insulin sensitivity for the rest of the day; or at least I was told this by someone working on her masters or doctorate in this area.
Thanks for the Kudos.
12-08-2006 02:20 PM
Protein powda, you said you wre working on a post workout drink, what has become of it?
The insulin index of food seems to be determined by how much food is ingested right? So... would that mean that the glycemic load is more important than the glycemic index?
I am getting a little confused.
I have been reading all the information on John Berardi's website and am now interested in acid balance. What is a good method for determining ones current acid/base level. I have always hit that burn very early.
People check out these supplement studies:
John Berardi - ACSM 2004
12-08-2006 03:28 PM
Originally Posted by GO_OUTSIDE!
I'm not working on a PWO drink. I'm not too sure about the acid base balance. That's generally a function of veggies vs. meat intake I think.
Glycemic load and GI index are both important.
12-08-2006 04:04 PM
I thought you were John Brerardi. After I posted I found something called surge.
Originally Posted by Proteinpowda
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