RenegadeRows
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Saw this thread going on over at BB - and thought I'd bring it here for some educated feedback.
The fact is, if Glycocyamine raises homocysteine levels, I would not take it, becuase theres a direct link between homocysteine levels and cardiovascular disease. However, how tangible is the evidence that Gylcocyamine rasies these???"I also don't agree with a lot of things written on T-Nation I do agree with homocysteine issue and GAA. There is no reason to be taking this as dietary staple which Muscle Milk (not the RTD which I love) serves as. There is solid evidence which states GAA raises homocysteine levels in healthy human subjects. Also, there is no evidence which shows this 4:1 ratio of TMG to GAA is safe and was probably devised by the first company to market a product with GAA. I have read most literature dating back to 2000 with regards to this topic. Here is some insight from another thread:
"Total plasma homocysteine was shown to be sensitive to dietary manipulation of methyl acceptors (Fig. 2). Animals maintained on a GAA-supplemented diet exhibited a plasma homocysteine level that was 49% higher than control animals. Supplementation of diets with creatine, however, resulted in a 27% decrease in plasma homocysteine"
Not so fast big guy. If homocysteine levels are lowered by 12% with betaine and 27% with creatine then what about the other 10%? Should we consider this neglible or possibly something that was turned a blind eye to because of the volumizing effects of GAA which any noob would just love? Hmmmm. makes you think a bit.
"Table 1 describes the effect of creatine and GAA supplementation on muscle metabolites in hindlimb skeletal muscle and on plasma creatine. Muscle creatine was increased by 39% in GAA-supplemented animals and by 46% in the creatine-supplemented group compared with control values. Phosphocreatine was unchanged. Plasma creatine was about sixfold higher in both the GAA- and creatine-supplemented groups. These data indicate that dietary supplementation with creatine or GAA significantly alters both muscle and plasma creatine levels."
As you can see it isn't superior to creatine and if someone is a non-resosponder to creatine monohydrate it is most likely due to the sodium dependent transport pathways non working optimally.
Originally Posted by deserusan
Creatine magnesium chelate in theory is supposed to allow the creatine molecule to be absorbed into the muscle via the ligand-gated cation channel. Normally, creatine enters the cell via a sodium-dependent transporter and if this new pathway is more efficient because it only allows cations through then creatine magnesium chelate could quite possibly be a more effective ergogenic aide. Unfortunately, it has been found that there is no evidence showing that creatine magnesium chelate enhances physical performance with respect to creatine monohydrate, thus the secondary transport pathway is not more efficient but still works nonetheless (Selsby JT 2004).
In this case, a magnesium creatine chelate would be a much safer alternative.
"The increased provision of GAA directly drives increased homocysteine production, as is evident in the experiments with hepatocytes (Table 3). The accumulation of homocysteine in these hepatocyte experiments reflects the fact that the production of this metabolite exceeds its rate of removal by remethylation and transsulfuration reactions"
You have to love full conclusions vs. abstract conclusions.
Stead LM, Au KP, Jacobs RL, Brosnan ME, Brosnan JT.Methylation demand and homocysteine metabolism: effects of dietary provision of creatine and guanidinoacetate. Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab. 2001 Nov;281(5):E1095-100.
With all that said, it makes sense not be using GAA as part of your normal diet per se. I can see using it in a cycled creatine product but using it multiple times a day to meat meal requirements as Muscle Milk (this doesn't apply to MM RTD's because they contain no GAA) offers is downright stupid to me. Raised homocysteine levels are proven to be involved in artherosclerosis and alzheimer's disease. The 4:1 ratio from my viewpoint is was devised by a company known for being about as shady as they come."
Now to further ad to this statement I never had a problem with GAA until I began to read about it from non-supplement related sources. I actually liked a few products that contained it.
The argument saying it won't give you a heart attack or cause alzheimer's right away is true. However. considering the leading cause of death in America is cardiovascular disease and the fact I hope most of you care what you are putting in your bodies as bodbuilders why increase your risk of developing vascular disease? There is a direct correlation between this and elevated homocysteine levels and until there is an argument presented as to why the 4:1 ratio is safe I will continue to be anti-GAA. It's not like this is an industry secret that a 4:1 ratio is used.
