It looks like T-mag (yeah yeah hypemachine) came out with a time-release beta-alanine product... any thoughts? Looks interesting, but t-mag can make a piece of poop look like steroids so I never know anymore.

beta-alanine should be slowed down with carb intake I would think, what are t-mag doing?

So does anyone know if T-nation is using the "Time-Release" method as a gimmick to sell their product?

I wanna know because I bought some bulk Beta-Alanine and want to know if I should take it several times a day.

I just take it twice per day..once in the AM and once post WO or before bed. Mixed with a little Histidine it gives a really nice boost in circulation in the muscles..I get tingly like I'm getting a massage.

Originally Posted by bioman

I just take it twice per day..once in the AM and once post WO or before bed. Mixed with a little Histidine it gives a really nice boost in circulation in the muscles..I get tingly like I'm getting a massage.

Looks to be on tha money.

If you want a BA product, you simply can't beat the all-in-one package of creatine, BA, and other goodies in MAN Clout.

Originally Posted by haiz69

If you want a BA product, you simply can't beat the all-in-one package of creatine, BA, and other goodies in MAN Clout.

Clout definatley is one of the best. I think the only reason it isn't more popular is because it taste like poo!

Originally Posted by Jstrong20

Clout definatley is one of the best. I think the only reason it isn't more popular is because it taste like poo!

The taste has been improved. Not great now, but not something I have trouble drinking at all. I think the price stops people sometime, although if you look at what you're getting, the price great.

I would however like to see Clout sold in a 2-pack, for a reduced price. I.E - 2 bottles for $70 or something.

Beta Alanine is legit. The stuff freaking works.

The product you're speaking of has never been studied. In theory it would lead to greater increase in muscle carnosine, but I'm not sure that the price justifies the possible result. Interesting how some companies will promote a product has greater absorption, but recommend taking the same (or higher) dose that research proves is effective...

Thanks for the replys.

I think I'm going to have to take 500mg of BA 4-6 times a day anyway so I can avoid the awful itch I get when I take more than a gram of the stuff.

Originally Posted by DieTrying

Beta Alanine is legit. The stuff freaking works.

The product you're speaking of has never been studied. In theory it would lead to greater increase in muscle carnosine, but I'm not sure that the price justifies the possible result. Interesting how some companies will promote a product has greater absorption, but recommend taking the same (or higher) dose that research proves is effective...

Studies are using 3.2-6.4 grams of Beta-Alanine daily, with the higher dose showing a significantly faster increase in intramuscular CARN levels


The majority of Beta-Alanine studies are in the 40-60mg per kg range,with a few resent ones by Dr.Harris going as high as 6.4g total a day.

And yes a recent study by Dr.Harris showed simple carbs increase the rate that BA increases CARN levels. Basically his study showed an equivalent dose of BA with carbs increased levels of CARN to the same level of BA without carbs did, in half the time.

Here's the Harris carb study I was talking about!



Harris RC1, Ponte J1, Hill CA1, Sale C1, Jones GA1, Kim HJ2), Wise JA3 Effect of 14 and 28 days ß-Alanine (Carnosyn™) supplementation on isometric endurance of the knee extensors.

1University of Chichester, Chichester, UK; 2Korea National Sport University, Seoul, Korea; 3Natural Alternatives International, San Marcos, USA

Carnosine (Carn) occurs in high concentrations in muscle and is highly effective in buffering H+.Carn is synthesised in situ from ß-alanine (ß-Ala) and histidine. Synthesis appears to be limited by theavailability of ß-Ala from ex-muscle synthesis and meat ingestion. We have reported ~60 and ~80%increases in muscle Carn with 4 and 10wk supplementation with ß-Ala. Evidence from our laboratoryindicates that uptake of β-ala into muscle is further enhanced by co-administration with simple sugars.AIM: To investigate, by means of two independently run, double blind studies, the effect of supplementing (6.4 g/d) ß-Ala for 28d and 14d [the last co-supplemented with carbohydrate (CHO)],upon isometric endurance of the knee extensors at 45-50%MVC. 45-50%MVC coincides with thepeak in intramuscular lactate accumulation and pH decrease. METHODS: Study a): [principal investigator JP] comprised 14 male subjects aged 22.9±(superdrol) 5.9 yrs and mass 80.2±10.5kg, randomly assigned to receive either [800 mg] x 8/d x 28d of ß-Ala (Carnosyn™, NAI, San Marcos, Ca) (n=8) or a matching placebo capsules containing maltodextrin (n=6). Study b): [principal investigator RCH] comprised 20 male subjects aged 25.3±7.5yrs and mass 78.0±10.2kg assigned to receive either [1600mg] x 4/d x 14d of ß-Ala (n=8) or a matching placebo (n=12). Each test and control treatment was ingested with 45-65g CHO comprising mostly glucose. In both studies isometric exercise endurance of the knee extensors, and impulse (kN/s) generated, were measured pre and post supplementation. RESULTS: Study a): MVC’s of test and control subjects (mean±SE) were 754±54 and 720±91N, respectively. Exercise endurance times, pre and post supplementation, were treatment: 75.5±6.8 and 83.7±7.8s, and control: 74.6±6.5 and 72.6±7.8s. The 8.2±3.3s gain (+11.1%) in the treatment group was significant (P<0.05) compared to the change in the control. Impulse changed by +3.37±1.24 (+12.6%) and –0.59±0.68 (-2.4%) kN/s in the treatment and control groups, respectively (P<0.05). Study b): MVC’s of test and placebo subjects were 685±38 and 653±51N, respectively. Endurance times, pre and post supplementation, were treatment: 70.0±5.3 and 78.0±3.3s, and control: 74.5±4.1 and 73.8±3.5s. The 8.0±3.2s gain (+14.4%) in the treatment group was significant (P<0.05) compared to the change in the control. Impulse changed by +2.67±1.10 (14.5%) and -0.14±0.45 (0.0%) kN/s in the treatment and control groups respectively (P<0.05). CONCLUSION: From the results of two independently run studies, 28d supplementation with ß-Ala, or 14d supplementation with each dose combined with CHO ingestion, resulted in similar (11.1% and 14.4%) and significant increases in isometric endurance. The results are consistent with pH limitation of exercise endurance at 45-50%MVC, and that this is delayed when muscle buffering capacity is increased with muscleCarn elevation following ß-Ala supplementation.

Here's a very recent stud by Hoffman, et al.

The increase in Lean muscle in the BA+C group compared to the just C was surprising and very promising for BA. The other thing that got me was the decrease in percent body fat with the BA +C group compared to the just creatine group, that didn't lose any body fat.

The two main points I get from the results on body fat are: One it could shows synergy between BA/C on fat metabolism or Two, the BA itself was causing the change in body fat lose by itself. Since the studies so far show NO SYNERGY between BA and C, I’m going to go with number 2

Shame they didn't have a just Beta-Alanine group to compare against the creatine group.




IJSNEM, 16(4), August 2006, Copyright © 2006

Effect of Creatine and ß-Alanine Supplementation on Performance and Endocrine Responses in Strength/Power Athletes

Jay Hoffman; Nicholas A. Ratamess; Jie Kang; Gerald Mangine; Avery Faigenbaum; Jeffrey Stout Table of Contents for Vol. 16, Iss. 4

Abstract
The effects of creatine and creatine plus ß-alanine on strength, power, body composition, and endocrine changes were examined during a 10-wk resistance training program in collegiate football players. Thirty-three male subjects were randomly assigned to either a placebo (P), creatine (C), or creatine plus ß-alanine (CA) group. During each testing session subjects were assessed for strength (maximum bench press and squat), power (Wingate anaerobic power test, 20-jump test), and body composition. Resting blood samples were analyzed for total testosterone, cortisol, growth hormone, IGF-1, and sex hormone binding globulin. Changes in lean body mass and percent body fat were greater (P < 0.05) in CA compared to C or P. Significantly greater strength improvements were seen in CA and C compared to P. Resting testosterone concentrations were elevated in C, however, no other significant endocrine changes were noted. Results of this study demonstrate the efficacy of creatine and creatine plus ß-alanine on strength performance. Creatine plus ß-alanine supplementation appeared to have the greatest effect on lean tissue accruement and body fat composition.

Originally Posted by Athletic Edge N

Here's a very recent stud by Hoffman, et al.

The increase in Lean muscle in the BA+C group compared to the just C was surprising and very promising for BA. The other thing that got me was the decrease in percent body fat with the BA +C group compared to the just creatine group, that didn't lose any body fat.

The two main points I get from the results on body fat are: One it could shows synergy between BA/C on fat metabolism or Two, the BA itself was causing the change in body fat lose by itself. Since the studies so far show NO SYNERGY between BA and C, I’m going to go with number 2

Shame they didn't have a just Beta-Alanine group to compare against the creatine group.




IJSNEM, 16(4), August 2006, Copyright © 2006

Effect of Creatine and ß-Alanine Supplementation on Performance and Endocrine Responses in Strength/Power Athletes

Jay Hoffman; Nicholas A. Ratamess; Jie Kang; Gerald Mangine; Avery Faigenbaum; Jeffrey Stout Table of Contents for Vol. 16, Iss. 4

Abstract
The effects of creatine and creatine plus ß-alanine on strength, power, body composition, and endocrine changes were examined during a 10-wk resistance training program in collegiate football players. Thirty-three male subjects were randomly assigned to either a placebo (P), creatine (C), or creatine plus ß-alanine (CA) group. During each testing session subjects were assessed for strength (maximum bench press and squat), power (Wingate anaerobic power test, 20-jump test), and body composition. Resting blood samples were analyzed for total testosterone, cortisol, growth hormone, IGF-1, and sex hormone binding globulin. Changes in lean body mass and percent body fat were greater (P < 0.05) in CA compared to C or P. Significantly greater strength improvements were seen in CA and C compared to P. Resting testosterone concentrations were elevated in C, however, no other significant endocrine changes were noted. Results of this study demonstrate the efficacy of creatine and creatine plus ß-alanine on strength performance. Creatine plus ß-alanine supplementation appeared to have the greatest effect on lean tissue accruement and body fat composition.

Very nice post.

Originally Posted by haiz69

Very nice post.

Thank you!

This is just the beginning of my posts on here. I'm quite familiar with the research on Beta-Alanine, so if you have any questions, please don't hesitate to ask and I will do my best to answer you with accuracy. If I don't know the answer, I will let you know as well.

I Start trying Beta -Alanine as soon as it arrives. Im Excited as this is a new benchmark in bodybuilding. The research is there. Im familar with the research as Ive researched it much before buying it. It looks as effective as creatine or almost. Creatine and Ba Combined makes a great combo.

Does anybody know why superdrol is in parenthsis iin the first study that was posted???



MOD EDIT: S D is rewritten to superdrol on the forum. Its really just SD

AIM: To investigate, by means of two independently run, double blind studies, the effect of supplementing (6.4 g/d) ß-Ala for 28d and 14d [the last co-supplemented with carbohydrate (CHO)],upon isometric endurance of the knee extensors at 45-50%MVC. 45-50%MVC coincides with thepeak in intramuscular lactate accumulation and pH decrease. METHODS: Study a): [principal investigator JP] comprised 14 male subjects aged 22.9± (superdrol) 5.9 yrs and mass 80.2±10.5kg, randomly assigned to receive either [800 mg] x 8/d x 28d of ß-Ala (Carnosyn™, NAI, San Marcos, Ca) (n=8) or a matching placebo capsules containing maltodextrin (n=6). Study b): [principal investigator RCH] comprised 20 male subjects aged 25.3±7.5yrs and mass 78.0±10.2kg assigned to receive either [1600mg] x 4/d x 14d of ß-Ala (n=8) or a matching placebo (n=12).

Originally Posted by dadream

Does anybody know why superdrol is in parenthsis iin the first study that was posted???



MOD EDIT: superdrol is rewritten to superdrol on the forum. Its really just superdrol

Yes, I'm looking at a hard copy right now and it's (superdrol) as in standard deviation, as in common statistical measurement.

LOL, still can't change it to read properly.

Lets keep this subject on Beta Alanine. Im very Interested in it, as Im about to start trying it.

The pic on my avator is wwhen I was on a superdrol cycle. Its been almost a year and proud to say Im anabolic free, Loving it, and Loving the challange of challanging my body withoiut the use of anabolics. Check out my recent video of me posing on 3-11-07 in my thread my quest for a sixpack.

Im ready to put on some size with Beta-Alanine and in another four months Ill post another Video of me anabolic free. Well see how The beta Alanine works.

I'm all for keeping the thread on beta-alanine I was just wondering why superdrol was mentioned in the first article which was a study done to test the effects of beta-alanine right?? Just wanted to know what relevance it had in that article as i am not interested in SD but rather beta alanine.

I have just started taking beta-alanine purchased from Nutra. I took 4 pills which equals 6.4grams pre-workout. Had a good pump going, better recovery between sets, and today I am hardly sore after my chest workout. I also do get the tingly itchy feeling after ingesting the BA about 15-20mins later.

Check out Clout...simply incredible!

Originally Posted by smeton_yea

Lets keep this subject on Beta Alanine. Im very Interested in it, as Im about to start trying it.

The pic on my avator is wwhen I was on a superdrol cycle. Its been almost a year and proud to say Im anabolic free, Loving it, and Loving the challange of challanging my body withoiut the use of anabolics. Check out my recent video of me posing on 3-11-07 in my thread my quest for a sixpack.

Im ready to put on some size with Beta-Alanine and in another four months Ill post another Video of me anabolic free. Well see how The beta Alanine works.

I think AST just brought 1 out called Beta X too...

Originally Posted by dadream

I have just started taking beta-alanine purchased from Nutra. I took 4 pills which equals 6.4grams pre-workout. Had a good pump going, better recovery between sets, and today I am hardly sore after my chest workout. I also do get the tingly itchy feeling after ingesting the BA about 15-20mins later.

Nice. Im doing the BA loading for the first month. Ill be taking about 6 grams per day the first month. Im thinking two capsules before training...then one..then one.

Did you take all four at once? User's are reporting some serious flushing. Im about to take two in an hour. Remember the half life is four to six hours so you want to take them every four to six hours to keep it up.

Here's some interesting info

Here’s where the science comes in. Studies show supplementing with the active component in BA actually hyper-saturates your muscles with available carnosine. The very first day you start taking BA muscle carnosine concentrations start to rise. You’ll actually start seeing and feeling results in just a few days. And these concentrations keep rising the longer you take BA. In just 28-days, studies show you’ll increase your muscle carnosine concentrations by sleeve splitting 65.8%!
Studies have even gone further than that. On top of actually measuring the increase in carnosine inside the muscle cell (hard proof that it’s doing what it is supposed to), researchers have measured the results trained athletes achieved with this new supplement.

In this study researchers measured what effects beta-alanine had on athletes that were taking creatine. The study involved 3 groups, a control group (took nothing), a creatine group (5 grams of creatine monohydrate twice a day) and a creatine and beta-alanine group (5 grams of creatine monohydrate twice a day and 3.2 grams of beta-alanine daily).

We know that creatine monohydrate is an outrageously effective supplement with hundreds of studies supporting it. So you would certainly expect results from the creatine group. But what about the creatine/beta-alanine group? What kind of results were seen there? How about almost 400% greater power output when measured by a 4-minute all-out cycle ergometer exercise test over the creatine supplemented control! Adding beta-alanine to the mix nearly quadrupled the power output in this particular test.

What about muscle growth? I thought you would never ask. In a study using collegiate football players, results showed that supplementing with beta-alanine and creatine monohydrate increased lean muscle mass 3 times greater than creatine monohydrate alone. Adding beta-alanine gave triple the results in lean muscle growth!

Now not only did beta-alanine promote almost 3-times more muscle growth it also reduced body fat almost twice as much as was measured in the creatine group. 3-times more lean muscle and almost twice the fat loss when compared to one of the most effective performance supplements ever. I would say that’s some serious results.

Let me tell you this is just the tip of the iceberg. As I write this there are many more studies in the works researching the performance and muscle-building benefits of beta-alanine. One thing is for sure, with the data gleaned so far, no athlete should train without BA. No one! If you want more muscle and more strength you want BA. If you want greater endurance and more speed you want BA If you want faster muscle recovery you want BA

How to Take BA . . .

The studies reveal a “tissue saturation phase” may be the best way to take BA to load your muscles with higher carnosine concentrations. Once loaded you maintain these concentrations with a lower dose.

Beta-alanine is a unique amino acid that imparts some remarkable performance and muscle-building effects. It also can cause a tingling and flushing effect on the skin called paraesthesia that many people find almost unbearable. .

There you have it. BETA-Alanine, without question, is one of the most potent supplements for supporting and increasing muscular strength, size, and endurance. It’s a real performance enhancer. And one you definitely shouldn’t train without!

What Interests me the most that this article is saying 3-times more muscle growth than creatine, it also reduced body fat almost twice as much as was measured in the creatine group. 3-times more lean muscle and almost twice the fat loss when compared to one of the most effective performance supplements ever.

Is this all hype? Time will tell. The Scientific research is solid.

I know I should wait and see if it works but im curious if I should expect some dramatic muscle gains in the next month or so from Beta-Alanine? or is it a more gradual thing?

Gradual, for sure.

Thanks Im excited over this supplement. I took 6.4 grams today. This was my first day.

Ive heard of this stuff before but it didnt get my attention intill I saw the research Im a Magazine in my gym that had an article in it.
If im not mistaken, and I could be,Hisitine found in chicken is a precursor to it, or it to histinine.before I knew the research behind it I used to eat two sometimes three chicken breast(recently from hearing about it) a day.

It's nowhere near as dramatic as that article suggests. A mild boost in strength is all I have really notice with perhaps, an enhanced ability to retain muscle during periods of stress. I do feel that I recouperate a little better with BA, but I am not 400% stronger and bigger than before supplementing with it, lol.

Originally Posted by bioman

I just take it twice per day..once in the AM and once post WO or before bed. Mixed with a little Histidine it gives a really nice boost in circulation in the muscles..I get tingly like I'm getting a massage.

I agree with you . I take it a bit less as only take it on WO days one pre and one post .
I would never want a time released version as the regular bulk powder type kicks in right away and at full blast and I truly see a difference in my workout .

I cant see time release being better maybe in theory but taking it pre workout is great .

Originally Posted by bioman

It's nowhere near as dramatic as that article suggests. A mild boost in strength is all I have really notice with perhaps, an enhanced ability to retain muscle during periods of stress. I do feel that I recouperate a little better with BA, but I am not 400% stronger and bigger than before supplementing with it, lol.

Me to I found a mild (took couple of weeks ) but yet noticeable boost in energy and strength the recup is better to.
I only get this if taken roughly around 1 hour pre workout on empty stomach but thats no big deal.

After 45 minutes the flush subsides which is great as it got to the point I was putting on some of my wifes make up as my nose as it would turn as bright as Rudolphs LOL.


After 45 minutes its gone and the effects seem to be great . as time goes by the flush is less but effects are greater which is good. I prefer it over creatine though use it also as not same thing.