Glutamine & cutting

[Iron Warrior]

Hey fellas, I will be starting to cut next week and I looked into Glutamine for preserving muscle mass. Wanted your opinion on whether or not it's good at preserving muscle mass.

[John Benz]

Yes, plain & simple. Despite some arguments to the contrary, glutamine is very important in this regard.

[windwords7]

LOL, some will say yes and some will say no.

[YellowJacket]

I will give it a big hell no, and heres why:

http://www.anabolicminds.com/forum/s...&threadid=3440

http://www.anabolicminds.com/forum/s...ight=glutamine

[jweave23]

This is a loaded question man! I've used it for years, especially when cutting, but some studies really have me riding the fence on this one. If you decide to go for it, try Optimum or AR Nutrition, very cheap products, no reason to spend too much $$ on it.

[Iron Warrior]

Thanks for the studies Yellow Jacket, I guess I'll just use that money to stock on PH powders before they're banned, I can also get more lap dances with that money I'll save.

[John Benz]

Iron Warrior, Glutamine increases cell volume which increases protein synthesis, thats ideal for adding muscle mass(or bulking).

Studies show that adding glutamine to protein supplements increases protein synthesis more than protein alone.

For a serious bodybuilder, there is nothing non-essential about glutamine. The research is more than conclusive that the levels of glutamine (and cysteine) are chemical determinants of whether you will lose or gain muscle mass.

Kinscherf.R et al. Low plasma glutamine in combination with high glutamine levels indicate risk for loss of body cell mass in healthy individuals: the effect of N-acetyl-cysteine. J.Mol.Med. vol 74:393-400 1996.

[Dwight Schrute]

For cutting it has its benefits since glucose and amino levels are low, especially in a pre-contest type diet. The problem using it during times of catabolism is that most of it gets converted into glucose, hence it becomes an expensive fuel source (not the reason you buy it). If you take it, make sure there is some sort of carb source present so the glutamine can be used as its intended to be. Bulking, its pointless.

[Dwight Schrute]

Originally posted by John Benz
Iron Warrior, Glutamine increases cell volume which increases protein synthesis, thats ideal for adding muscle mass(or bulking).

Studies show that adding glutamine to protein supplements increases protein synthesis more than protein alone.

For a serious bodybuilder, there is nothing non-essential about glutamine. The research is more than conclusive that the levels of glutamine (and cysteine) are chemical determinants of whether you will lose or gain muscle mass.

Kinscherf.R et al. Low plasma glutamine in combination with high glutamine levels indicate risk for loss of body cell mass in healthy individuals: the effect of N-acetyl-cysteine. J.Mol.Med. vol 74:393-400 1996.

1. Creatine can do the same, plus its cheaper.

2. Actually it showed no significant difference. The same can be achieved with a carb source. (a low GI one at that!)

3. Thats only in serious times of stress (surgery, HIV, etc..) You are in no way this catabolic post workout, especially with the the constant release of GH up to 60 minutes after resistance training.

4. That study was done on patients with low glutamine levels. During bulking you aren't even close to having low glutamine levels, especially with your pre-workout shake/meal.

[YellowJacket]

Originally posted by John Benz
Iron Warrior, Glutamine increases cell volume which increases protein synthesis, thats ideal for adding muscle mass(or bulking).

Studies show that adding glutamine to protein supplements increases protein synthesis more than protein alone.

Except glutamine wont absorb in a high protein diet

For a serious bodybuilder, there is nothing non-essential about glutamine. The research is more than conclusive that the levels of glutamine (and cysteine) are chemical determinants of whether you will lose or gain muscle mass.

Glutamine is a supplement hence NOT ESSENTIAL to the diet. Glutamine does nothing protein powder and/pr whole foods do not do.

[John Benz]

Originally posted by Bobo
4. That study was done on patients with low glutamine levels. During bulking you aren't even close to having low glutamine levels, especially with your pre-workout shake/meal.

Remember the question was as pertains to cutting.

[Dwight Schrute]

Originally posted by John Benz

Remember the question was as pertains to cutting.

And I answered it as it pertains to cutting. Take it properly and it can work even though the same can be achieved with a protein source. Take it improperly, it will be converted to glucose via gluconeogenesis. You don't buy it as a fuel source.

You were the first to mention bulking so I addressed that also.


Bring it on John!!!

[John Benz]

Originally posted by YellowJacket
[B]

Except glutamine wont absorb in a high protein diet



Glutamine is a supplement hence NOT ESSENTIAL to the diet. Glutamine does nothing protein powder and/pr whole foods do not do.

Glutamine absorbs just fine in a high protein diet, FYI. Glutamine is essential in preventing catabolic muscle wasting in a cutting cycle, and is needed because the body cannot manufacture enough to prevent soft tissue breakdown at this time. Facts any seasoned bb'er will verify from first-hand experience

[YellowJacket]

Originally posted by John Benz

Glutamine absorbs just fine in a high protein diet, FYI. Glutamine is essential in preventing catabolic muscle wasting in a cutting cycle, and is needed because the body cannot manufacture enough to prevent soft tissue breakdown at this time. Facts any seasoned bb'er will verify from first-hand experience

Or placebo & opinion

Why do bodybuilders use protein? Hell, we should all ditch protein and everyone use glutamine! You make it sound like its on the same level of importance as protein. Protein is not only anti-catabolic, but it builds muscle and contains more than enough glutamine for those who think its necessary in larger amounts. Why do you think people up the amount of protein they consume during a low calories, aerobic cycle? Hmm....to preserve muscle.

[John Benz]

Originally posted by Bobo


And I answered it as it pertains to cutting. Take it properly and it can work even though the same can be achieved with a protein source. Take it improperly, it will be converted to glucose via gluconeogenesis. You don't buy it as a fuel source.

You were the first to mention bulking so I addressed that also.


Bring it on John!!!

Bobo, you are the master in this area, and I will debate you no further.

[John Benz]

Originally posted by YellowJacket



Or placebo & opinion
Why do bodybuilders use protein? Hell, we should all ditch protein and everyone use glutamine! You make it sound like its on the same level of importance as protein. Protein is not only anti-catabolic, but it builds muscle and contains more than enough glutamine for those who think its necessary in larger amounts. Why do you think people up the amount of protein they consume during a low calories, aerobic cycle? Hmm....to preserve muscle.

Protein and glutamine are both necessary. Most bodybuilders use both. Even if it was placebo, who cares. As long as the results are real and lasting. And thousands of experienced lifters, including myself will attest to the fact that results obtained with glutamine cannot be obtained with protein alone.

[Dwight Schrute]

Originally posted by John Benz

Glutamine absorbs just fine in a high protein diet, FYI. Glutamine is essential in preventing catabolic muscle wasting in a cutting cycle, and is needed because the body cannot manufacture enough to prevent soft tissue breakdown at this time. Facts any seasoned bb'er will verify from first-hand experience

What the hell do I look like?!!?!

Actually what you said is partially correct but why would you buy this for a fuel source? You do not want gluconeogenesis to accur at all, and it if does, you do not want your glutamine to be converted. This exact same thing can be achieves with whey, carbs, fat, etc.... If gluconeogenesis is occuring, you are not repairing muscle in any way, shape or form. You are converting whatever fuel source (usually protein or stored aminos) into glucose for fuel. The latter means muscle loss. You do NOT want your glutamine to be used in this way. You don't even want your protein to used this way. THat why either you pick a keto type diet where fat is being used, or a 40/40/20 split where carbs are still used and enough is present to eliminate gluconeogensis, hence your protein can be used at its intended to be. With this amount of dietary protein present, glutamine will rarely if ever be used since its a non-essential amino acid. Physiolocally your body will not use them in any way if sufficient amounts are already present. That is a fact and can't be debated. Its the primary reason why its NON-essential.

[YellowJacket]

Originally posted by John Benz

Protein and glutamine are both necessary. Most bodybuilders use both. Even if it was placebo, who cares. As long as the results are real and lasting. And thousands of experienced lifters, including myself will attest to the fact that results obtained with glutamine cannot be obtained with protein alone.

You keep using "most bodybuilders use it" as a scapegoat, as if anyone gives a ****. Bodybuilders also use illicit drugs in high amounts, so we should all do that too aye? And once again, your opinion doesnt mean anything, personal testimonials do not serve as a valid response to any debate. If thats all you have, then once again this debate is over and chalk another one up for the bee.

[Dwight Schrute]

Originally posted by John Benz

Bobo, you are the master in this area, and I will debate you no further.

My exams are over for a while. I'm just sitting here watching war coverage and have nothing else to do.

[John Benz]

Originally posted by YellowJacket


You keep using "most bodybuilders use it" as a scapegoat, as if anyone gives a ****. Bodybuilders also use illicit drugs in high amounts, so we should all do that too aye? And once again, your opinion doesnt mean anything, personal testimonials do not serve as a valid response to any debate. If thats all you have, then once again this debate is over and chalk another one up for the bee.

Please stop debating on matters about which you are clueless. Start lifting weights and maybe you will get a clue as to what we are discussing here.