Glutamine & cutting

Iron Warrior

Iron Warrior

Registered User
Hey fellas, I will be starting to cut next week and I looked into Glutamine for preserving muscle mass. Wanted your opinion on whether or not it's good at preserving muscle mass.
 
This is a loaded question man! ;) I've used it for years, especially when cutting, but some studies really have me riding the fence on this one. If you decide to go for it, try Optimum or AR Nutrition, very cheap products, no reason to spend too much $$ on it.
 
Thanks for the studies Yellow Jacket, I guess I'll just use that money to stock on PH powders before they're banned, I can also get more lap dances with that money I'll save.
 
Iron Warrior, Glutamine increases cell volume which increases protein synthesis, thats ideal for adding muscle mass(or bulking).

Studies show that adding glutamine to protein supplements increases protein synthesis more than protein alone.

For a serious bodybuilder, there is nothing non-essential about glutamine. The research is more than conclusive that the levels of glutamine (and cysteine) are chemical determinants of whether you will lose or gain muscle mass.

Kinscherf.R et al. Low plasma glutamine in combination with high glutamine levels indicate risk for loss of body cell mass in healthy individuals: the effect of N-acetyl-cysteine. J.Mol.Med. vol 74:393-400 1996.
 
For cutting it has its benefits since glucose and amino levels are low, especially in a pre-contest type diet. The problem using it during times of catabolism is that most of it gets converted into glucose, hence it becomes an expensive fuel source (not the reason you buy it). If you take it, make sure there is some sort of carb source present so the glutamine can be used as its intended to be. Bulking, its pointless.
 
John Benz said:
Iron Warrior, Glutamine increases cell volume which increases protein synthesis, thats ideal for adding muscle mass(or bulking).

Studies show that adding glutamine to protein supplements increases protein synthesis more than protein alone.

For a serious bodybuilder, there is nothing non-essential about glutamine. The research is more than conclusive that the levels of glutamine (and cysteine) are chemical determinants of whether you will lose or gain muscle mass.

Kinscherf.R et al. Low plasma glutamine in combination with high glutamine levels indicate risk for loss of body cell mass in healthy individuals: the effect of N-acetyl-cysteine. J.Mol.Med. vol 74:393-400 1996.
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1. Creatine can do the same, plus its cheaper.

2. Actually it showed no significant difference. The same can be achieved with a carb source. (a low GI one at that!)

3. Thats only in serious times of stress (surgery, HIV, etc..) You are in no way this catabolic post workout, especially with the the constant release of GH up to 60 minutes after resistance training.

4. That study was done on patients with low glutamine levels. During bulking you aren't even close to having low glutamine levels, especially with your pre-workout shake/meal.
 
John Benz said:
Iron Warrior, Glutamine increases cell volume which increases protein synthesis, thats ideal for adding muscle mass(or bulking).

Studies show that adding glutamine to protein supplements increases protein synthesis more than protein alone.
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Except glutamine wont absorb in a high protein diet :rolleyes:

For a serious bodybuilder, there is nothing non-essential about glutamine. The research is more than conclusive that the levels of glutamine (and cysteine) are chemical determinants of whether you will lose or gain muscle mass.
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Glutamine is a supplement hence NOT ESSENTIAL to the diet. Glutamine does nothing protein powder and/pr whole foods do not do.
 
Bobo said:
4. That study was done on patients with low glutamine levels. During bulking you aren't even close to having low glutamine levels, especially with your pre-workout shake/meal.
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Remember the question was as pertains to cutting.
 
John Benz said:

Remember the question was as pertains to cutting.
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And I answered it as it pertains to cutting. Take it properly and it can work even though the same can be achieved with a protein source. Take it improperly, it will be converted to glucose via gluconeogenesis. You don't buy it as a fuel source.

You were the first to mention bulking so I addressed that also.


Bring it on John!!! :D :D
 
YellowJacket said:


Except glutamine wont absorb in a high protein diet :rolleyes:



Glutamine is a supplement hence NOT ESSENTIAL to the diet. Glutamine does nothing protein powder and/pr whole foods do not do.
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Glutamine absorbs just fine in a high protein diet, FYI. Glutamine is essential in preventing catabolic muscle wasting in a cutting cycle, and is needed because the body cannot manufacture enough to prevent soft tissue breakdown at this time. Facts any seasoned bb'er will verify from first-hand experience :rolleyes:
 
John Benz said:

Glutamine absorbs just fine in a high protein diet, FYI. Glutamine is essential in preventing catabolic muscle wasting in a cutting cycle, and is needed because the body cannot manufacture enough to prevent soft tissue breakdown at this time. Facts any seasoned bb'er will verify from first-hand experience :rolleyes:
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Or placebo & opinion :rolleyes:

Why do bodybuilders use protein? Hell, we should all ditch protein and everyone use glutamine! You make it sound like its on the same level of importance as protein. Protein is not only anti-catabolic, but it builds muscle and contains more than enough glutamine for those who think its necessary in larger amounts. Why do you think people up the amount of protein they consume during a low calories, aerobic cycle? Hmm....to preserve muscle.
 
Ya varmint :D

Bobo said:


And I answered it as it pertains to cutting. Take it properly and it can work even though the same can be achieved with a protein source. Take it improperly, it will be converted to glucose via gluconeogenesis. You don't buy it as a fuel source.

You were the first to mention bulking so I addressed that also.


Bring it on John!!! :D :D
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Bobo, you are the master in this area, and I will debate you no further. :D :D
 
YellowJacket said:



Or placebo & opinion
Why do bodybuilders use protein? Hell, we should all ditch protein and everyone use glutamine! You make it sound like its on the same level of importance as protein. Protein is not only anti-catabolic, but it builds muscle and contains more than enough glutamine for those who think its necessary in larger amounts. Why do you think people up the amount of protein they consume during a low calories, aerobic cycle? Hmm....to preserve muscle.
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Protein and glutamine are both necessary. Most bodybuilders use both. Even if it was placebo, who cares. As long as the results are real and lasting. And thousands of experienced lifters, including myself will attest to the fact that results obtained with glutamine cannot be obtained with protein alone. :rolleyes:
 
John Benz said:

Glutamine absorbs just fine in a high protein diet, FYI. Glutamine is essential in preventing catabolic muscle wasting in a cutting cycle, and is needed because the body cannot manufacture enough to prevent soft tissue breakdown at this time. Facts any seasoned bb'er will verify from first-hand experience :rolleyes:
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What the hell do I look like?!!?! :D

Actually what you said is partially correct but why would you buy this for a fuel source? You do not want gluconeogenesis to accur at all, and it if does, you do not want your glutamine to be converted. This exact same thing can be achieves with whey, carbs, fat, etc.... If gluconeogenesis is occuring, you are not repairing muscle in any way, shape or form. You are converting whatever fuel source (usually protein or stored aminos) into glucose for fuel. The latter means muscle loss. You do NOT want your glutamine to be used in this way. You don't even want your protein to used this way. THat why either you pick a keto type diet where fat is being used, or a 40/40/20 split where carbs are still used and enough is present to eliminate gluconeogensis, hence your protein can be used at its intended to be. With this amount of dietary protein present, glutamine will rarely if ever be used since its a non-essential amino acid. Physiolocally your body will not use them in any way if sufficient amounts are already present. That is a fact and can't be debated. Its the primary reason why its NON-essential.
 
John Benz said:

Protein and glutamine are both necessary. Most bodybuilders use both. Even if it was placebo, who cares. As long as the results are real and lasting. And thousands of experienced lifters, including myself will attest to the fact that results obtained with glutamine cannot be obtained with protein alone. :rolleyes:
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You keep using "most bodybuilders use it" as a scapegoat, as if anyone gives a ****. Bodybuilders also use illicit drugs in high amounts, so we should all do that too aye? And once again, your opinion doesnt mean anything, personal testimonials do not serve as a valid response to any debate. If thats all you have, then once again this debate is over and chalk another one up for the bee.
 
Re: Ya varmint :D

John Benz said:

Bobo, you are the master in this area, and I will debate you no further. :D :D
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My exams are over for a while. I'm just sitting here watching war coverage and have nothing else to do. :D :D
 
YellowJacket said:


You keep using "most bodybuilders use it" as a scapegoat, as if anyone gives a ****. Bodybuilders also use illicit drugs in high amounts, so we should all do that too aye? And once again, your opinion doesnt mean anything, personal testimonials do not serve as a valid response to any debate. If thats all you have, then once again this debate is over and chalk another one up for the bee.
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Please stop debating on matters about which you are clueless. Start lifting weights and maybe you will get a clue as to what we are discussing here. :rolleyes:
 
Bobo said:


What the hell do I look like?!!?! :D
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Show me a pic and I'll let you know. :D

The key word there was MOST. You are a rare individual. You know I have the highest regard for you and your opinions.
 
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Fair enough. Bad news. I'm down to 227 :(


Need to carb up :D

When I get back from Florida I should have some nice ones. I'll be nice and tan!
 
Originally posted by Bobo
What the hell do I look like?!!?! :D
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Umm...........a really ugly clown from hell? :D

If you post some pics I'll gladly make fun of you further ;) :p

Nice arguments from both sides here, another rehash of the debates we've all seen before. I have my doubts about glutamine when bulking I admit, but for cutting I'd still recommend it. I may look again for the studies regarding glutamine absorption in the small intestine, but I do remember one had to do with patients who just had surgery in regards to a small perforation in their small intestine....not your average bodybuilder I'd say. ;)
 
I'm banning the both of you for insulting a MOD. :D :D


Just unban yourselves later...I want the satifaction of clicking the ban button. ;)
 
Wow, you bros are real knowledgeable. I'll start off cutting w/out glutamine, if I notice I'm losing strength or muscle mass than I'll add it later 'cause it ain't cheap at 30 grams a day. Thanks for taking time to answer my question.
 
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