Help me get on a stim-break, please!

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  1. Sorry for all the posts guys. But I just wanted to say one last thing. While some nootropics do have stimulating properties, none of them can truly replace a stimulant. But I'd say take l-dopa and l-tyosine together every day. There was one stimulating racetam I forget the name but you get resistance within a week or two so its not that great. And all the other nootropics on the market have websites saying how amazing and great they are, Most of them are pretty meh. I have literally tried all of them and even ordered some that aren't in the US. I used to use aniracetam for a year or more and like it. But now I almost exclusively us pramiracetam because it significantly improves my visual and episodic memory I can flip through a book and close my eyes and see most of it. I used to be able to do that when I was younger but I prob damaged my brain on the way up lol idk. But nootropics are more like sensory enhances or for getting insight not for getting you awake and alert.


  2. Modafinil defininetly cant replace Adderall. In my experience it lowers the withdraws. Armodafinil in my mind can but there are sides. That's interesting about the genes tho. I had no idea. My range of adderall went from 90mg - over 300 mg in a day (of course wasn't doing this everyday and I kinda ****ed my tolerance and dopamine receptors up)
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by Sam stack View Post
    Modafinil defininetly cant replace Adderall. In my experience it lowers the withdraws. Armodafinil in my mind can but there are sides. That's interesting about the genes tho. I had no idea. My range of adderall went from 90mg - over 300 mg in a day (of course wasn't doing this everyday and I kinda ****ed my tolerance and dopamine receptors up)
    So I am assuming then you were using it not to study or be productive? I can see wanting to get off in that case. But Im happy with my dose and it gets me through the day.

  4. Ohh then nvm about getting off if you like it. I personally got annoyed because i felt that i never had energy unless i took more Adderall. For my high doses they were for huge assignments.

  5. Quote Originally Posted by Sam stack View Post
    Ohh then nvm about getting off if you like it. I personally got annoyed because i felt that i never had energy unless i took more Adderall. For my high doses they were for huge assignments.
    Well to be fair caffeine and once and a while ephedrine get me through the day. Iím not exactly awake on just adderall but Iím not exhausted either. Kind of in the middle. This morning I took a 30 and fell back to sleep lol. But it DOES will help with attention and focus just no rush
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  6. @Euclides the OP might be interesting logger for Azoth

  7. Quote Originally Posted by bosskardo View Post
    @Euclides the OP might be interesting logger for Azoth
    Just looked up the ingredients. Very solid product! I'd actually be likely to recommend this to friends just based off the ingredient profile (people tend to ask me about nootropics). I usually tell people to buy individual ingredients since it is hard to find all in one products that use the right ingredients and the best dosages. Where is the best place (location or website) to purchase Azoth?

    Also, just a suggestion for the future (or something that I would add if I got the product). I think the one ingredient that would make the product even more effective is pramiracetam. Even just 300 mg would be synergistic with the other ingredients. I actually find higher doses to be less effective even though some tend to dose 600-1200 mg per day.

  8. Quote Originally Posted by bigdavid View Post
    Dude. Go back on your stimulants if you need them. Resistance and tolerance built to caffeine or amphetamines or any other stimulant have nothing to do with fat loss. Itís a different mechanism. One is neural the other is receptors on adipocytes (fat cells). You could be taking huge doses of ephedrine or caffeine or adderall it doesnít matter. Ephedrine still burns fat even if you donít get a buzz from it. And you canít build resistance to T3 or to Clen since itís a direct beta agonist.
    Wow! Thanks for the info. I'll take your word for it, haha.

    What about lowering my tolerance/raising sensitivity? Is it possible to lower my baseline? If so wouldn't a stim-break be the fastest way?

    I do plan on dropping Mesomorph to 2 days a week eventually, leg day and deadlift day.

  9. Quote Originally Posted by bigdavid View Post
    Iím saying the above because I am a stimulant expert. Almost literally. I know all the different types their chemistry, biochemistry, metabolism, doses, mechanisms and their interactions. And Iíve been taking prob 6-800 caffeine per day for years. The wakefulness properties donít go away. And you can use caffeine with ephedrine for long periods of time and they still burn fat just fine. Oh am Iím prescribed 90 mg adderall per day for my legit ADHD. But that tolerance has been met it just helps me stay on task I can take it and sleep the whole day.

    So to all my fellow stim junkies.. you donít need to do a stim free period like this if it is torture. Save yourself. Lol
    I'm gonna put my trust in you. I used to research EVERYthing especially when I was on Adderall. Prescribed 60 for college but as the years went on starting misusing and probably abusing for non-academic/educational purposes. I'm sure I've researched a lot of what you have but maybe not as extensive. And I didn't retain most of it (I have hundreds of websites/pages bookmarked from years ago, in the sciences).

    So like above, my big question is, can I lower my baseline caffeine "tolerance/sensitivity" just by lowering the dose. Seems like a total break would really cause the most neurological resetting/reversals in regards to receptors , enzymes, transporter proteins etc.

  10. Quote Originally Posted by bigdavid View Post
    Sorry for all the posts guys. But I just wanted to say one last thing. While some nootropics do have stimulating properties, none of them can truly replace a stimulant. But I'd say take l-dopa and l-tyosine together every day. There was one stimulating racetam I forget the name but you get resistance within a week or two so its not that great. And all the other nootropics on the market have websites saying how amazing and great they are, Most of them are pretty meh. I have literally tried all of them and even ordered some that aren't in the US. I used to use aniracetam for a year or more and like it. But now I almost exclusively us pramiracetam because it significantly improves my visual and episodic memory I can flip through a book and close my eyes and see most of it. I used to be able to do that when I was younger but I prob damaged my brain on the way up lol idk. But nootropics are more like sensory enhances or for getting insight not for getting you awake and alert.
    I appreciate all your posts, and this is my thread damn it! Haha. I dabbled with most of the racetams and never noticed much anything.

    I have l-tyrosine to use for fasted cardio (with caffeine/yohimbine). Would you recommend l-tyrosine every day or just while trying to lower my stimulant baseline?

    I'll look this up later but can clen be used with yohimbine? IIRC Yohimbine and ephedrine shouldn't be used together.

    I do have a supplement problem (addiction, overusing) and could use some guidance from the most knowledgeable, informed people. This place seems legit. Don't feel like reading a punch of parrots on various forums.

  11. Well, just to add to my contribution. I have been chronically on stims for I don't even know how long, and I also take 20mg of Dexedrine per day. I think stim tolerance and adrenal fatigue are a bit overrated, and you really only get yourself into trouble when you take the real heavy hitters (none of which are really the ones you have been taking) and it starts to affect your sleep. I agree with pretty much everything bigdavid has said. I also suggested L-Tyrosine like he did, it is supposed to help restore or re-sensitize dopamine receptors, while continuing to take stims. I used to find Vitamin-C and DHEA helpful as well for reducing burnout from powerful stimulants. Aside from that, just replacing Mesomorph with a better non DMAA PWO should make you feel better either way. DMAA is infamous for creating a very brief "up" period, followed by a very long crashing down period.

    Ideally, I would like to wean of stimulants as well but if I am being honest with myself, it most likely is not going to happen due to the demands of my job. Maybe it will happen someday, maybe it won't. Either way, it is not worth it for me to get stressed out about it..

  12. There is a lot of good afvice in here already for you, OP. A few things that may help; do not try and go cold turkey. I would consume caffeine or a pre workout without any "exotic" stims. Just go with a good caffeine product. After a week or so, go with less. If your product has 300mg per scoop, go with 3/4 of a scoop for a week and then every following week, go with less and less until you are at zero scoops. After that, I would go a god month or so without any type of stims.

    During that time, and even during the weening down phase, look into nootropics to help you. For just your regular day, Hup A, choline, Alpha-GPC can all help. You can use them pre workout as well. You can also go with Focus XT Stim Free and Genius Pre, which looks very good. I would also suggest ashwagandha, which will reduce stress, it will help.

    I just can't stress enough weening down. I have never used that much caffeine where I have had withdrawal like symptoms. But I have co-workers that have and it does not sound fun.

    Once you get back on stims, I would suggest only using the heavy hitters when you truly need a pick me up.
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  13. I've used ashwagandha to help me take a break from caffeine. Its an adaptogen and can help your body deal with the cortisol and stress symptoms from caffeine withdrawal. It was also the main ingredient in a product called adrenosurge which was a successful adrenal fatigue supplement.

  14. I'm interested in this, I'm intending to do a stim break soon as well.

  15. Is there truthfully that much harm in not taking a break from stims? Honest question here, i take a scoop and a half of pwo (Stim Rush from BPS) and i take 3-4 scoops of Off The Chain bcaas spaced throughout the day..

  16. Quote Originally Posted by bigdavid View Post
    Well to be fair caffeine and once and a while ephedrine get me through the day. Iím not exactly awake on just adderall but Iím not exhausted either. Kind of in the middle. This morning I took a 30 and fell back to sleep lol. But it DOES will help with attention and focus just no rush
    I'm the same way I can take an Addy and I'm just not sleepy but not wired either. I've also been taking a scoop or a scoop and a half of Hyde for probably about 6 months since my last break
  17. Help me get on a stim-break, please!


    Quote Originally Posted by Cscott622 View Post
    Is there truthfully that much harm in not taking a break from stims? Honest question here, i take a scoop and a half of pwo (Stim Rush from BPS) and i take 3-4 scoops of Off The Chain bcaas spaced throughout the day..
    Realistically, people often just keep adding more and more stimulants when they build a tolerance, which can lead to issues. Your caffeine is 375mg (Stim Rush) + 300-400 (Off the Chain), for a total of 675-775mg, plus the DMAA and any other stims they have. That's high, but it's not quite the crazy doses I've seen some people taking. If you decide to keep adding more stimulants though, that could be an issue.
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  18. IIRC, at least with Caffeine using Coffee, the physiological benefits continue, even though the stimulatory effect is gone. Same with Ephedrine I think - but backcheck both of those - Suppversity probably has the data.

  19. Quote Originally Posted by The_Old_Guy View Post
    IIRC, at least with Caffeine using Coffee, the physiological benefits continue, even though the stimulatory effect is gone. Same with Ephedrine I think - but backcheck both of those - Suppversity probably has the data.
    I agree.
    I think 600-800mg caffeine wouldn't be bad if most came from coffee as it has other benefits.
    But if it's from supps and plus other stims regularly then you have a problem.

  20. Quote Originally Posted by Ray Donovan View Post
    I'm gonna put my trust in you. I used to research EVERYthing especially when I was on Adderall. Prescribed 60 for college but as the years went on starting misusing and probably abusing for non-academic/educational purposes. I'm sure I've researched a lot of what you have but maybe not as extensive. And I didn't retain most of it (I have hundreds of websites/pages bookmarked from years ago, in the sciences).

    So like above, my big question is, can I lower my baseline caffeine "tolerance/sensitivity" just by lowering the dose. Seems like a total break would really cause the most neurological resetting/reversals in regards to receptors , enzymes, transporter proteins etc.
    Youíre right in the sense that being off cold turkey for a while would be fastest in lowering your baseline tolerance. However, with that being said, once you start to use consistently again at doses close to what you used to use you will be right back to where you started in terms of the neurological effects. I have found that after trying to reset tolerance levels, they quickly return to what they were unless you only use the stims on a once and a while type schedule, like 2-3 times per week. If you plan to go back to using chronically then in my opinion itís not worth the agony of going on a break because tolerance would build back pretty quickly and then you are back where you started.

    In terms of fat burning abstinence doesnít help or hinder the mechanism. But indirectly you may not be as motivated to do cardio, eat correctly, etc. if you are stim tolerant and donít have the neurological effects present.

    So lowering the dose prob would help tolerance but it would only stay there if you keep that dose constant and donít start to increase again. If anything maybe take a low base dose through the week and only do higher doses or other compounds before workouts or times that you absolutely need them.

  21. Quote Originally Posted by Ray Donovan View Post
    I appreciate all your posts, and this is my thread damn it! Haha. I dabbled with most of the racetams and never noticed much anything.

    I have l-tyrosine to use for fasted cardio (with caffeine/yohimbine). Would you recommend l-tyrosine every day or just while trying to lower my stimulant baseline?

    I'll look this up later but can clen be used with yohimbine? IIRC Yohimbine and ephedrine shouldn't be used together.

    I do have a supplement problem (addiction, overusing) and could use some guidance from the most knowledgeable, informed people. This place seems legit. Don't feel like reading a punch of parrots on various forums.
    Haha good point. Yeah racetams are hit or miss for everyone. I used to use aniracetam extensively and found it helped a lot with wholistic/insightful out of the box thinking for times I needed to be more creative. And pramiracetam was also helpful for pure memory capacity. It deff improves how much information I could learn and retain in short periods of time. But it tended to cause depressive symptoms if I used it too often. So now a days I donít really bother with them anymore.

    You can use l tyrosine every day. I generally do. To get acute benefit youíd need to take at least 5 grams at once anyway, so subchronic use is prob good in the 500-1500mg range but thatís just speculative.

    And ehhh they say you shouldnít use things together mostly from a theoretical standpoint. Iíd say try one first and add a second one later if you need something more. Iíve use ephedrine and yohimbine together no problem. Likely itís not advised due to concerns of increasing blood pressure or heart-rate acutely. Though I have not personally used Clen I do know others who have and got a descent amount of peripheral stimulating side effects (like hand tremors and palpitations) so Iíd say you should prob try that solo for a few weeks before adding in more compounds.

  22. I ve bought tyrosine in bulk powder and experimented with -tyrosine over the years. I found five years to be a bit too much. Almost like I was a bit geeked. I like about two grams like found in MST Ragnorok or controlled labs gamer up , along with the taurine in there, which helps counterbalance the l tyrosine. I really like this combination of about two grams l tryosine and two games l taurine
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  23. Quote Originally Posted by bigdavid View Post
    Haha good point. Yeah racetams are hit or miss for everyone. I used to use aniracetam extensively and found it helped a lot with wholistic/insightful out of the box thinking for times I needed to be more creative. And pramiracetam was also helpful for pure memory capacity. It deff improves how much information I could learn and retain in short periods of time. But it tended to cause depressive symptoms if I used it too often. So now a days I don’t really bother with them anymore.

    You can use l tyrosine every day. I generally do. To get acute benefit you’d need to take at least 5 grams at once anyway, so subchronic use is prob good in the 500-1500mg range but that’s just speculative.

    And ehhh they say you shouldn’t use things together mostly from a theoretical standpoint. I’d say try one first and add a second one later if you need something more. I’ve use ephedrine and yohimbine together no problem. Likely it’s not advised due to concerns of increasing blood pressure or heart-rate acutely. Though I have not personally used Clen I do know others who have and got a descent amount of peripheral stimulating side effects (like hand tremors and palpitations) so I’d say you should prob try that solo for a few weeks before adding in more compounds.
    It's always fun when people say "I do this but I don't recommend it", lol, I take 25mg of Adderall with a 5 hour energy before I go and run and/or lift. It's probably nothing I would recommend for the inexperienced but it's to a point where I don't get a good enough "kick" out of Adderall without caffeine... awe, I think I really do need a stim break...

  24. Quote Originally Posted by BBiceps View Post
    It's always fun when people say "I do this but I don't recommend it", lol, I take 25mg of Adderall with a 5 hour energy before I go and run and/or lift. It's probably nothing I would recommend for the inexperienced but it's to a point where I don't get a good enough "kick" out of Adderall without caffeine... awe, I think I really do need a stim break...
    I can take 70 mg DMAA 400 caffeine 25 adderall And 25 ephedrine and several other pseudo stims that have like 1/3 caffeine strength, and I can almost pass out two hours later. BUT, did I start with these dose? Hell no lol.

  25. Something else id like to point out that can sometimes be overlooked is sleep QUALITY while taking stims habitually. Sure you can maybe take 200 mg caffeine two hrs before going to sleep, but even if it doesn’t cause you to wake up, and you sleep through the night, I promise you each and every time you will be having low quality sleep. Caffeine use close to bed chronically can cause a cumulative effect and lead to chronic sleep deprivation, EVEN WHEN YOU GET ENOUGH SLEEP. and this by itself can hamper how well your stims work because now you have chronic sleep deprivation on top of everything else.
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