cutting/anti-estrogen

reystar22

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i plan on cutting next week so i'm getting some stuff

as for a fat burner i'm gonna try HYDROXYCUT HARDCORE NEXT GEN, Olympus Labs Amp1burn or Pro Supps DNPX II

for anti estrogen i read some good reviews about Nolvadren XT, i have used erase pro in the past, was ok, i hope Nolvadren XT is more powerful


any other supp that i can use to help me cut?
 
john.patterson

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Just to clarify, you're looking for a product to stack with one of the fat burners you listed above? Are you looking for a product to help control estrogen, or are you looking for other options aside from what you've listed?
 

reystar22

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hey john

yes i am sorry i didnt clarify it!

I am looking for a stack. A Fatburner + an anti estrogen

Those are some products that i was considering based on some good reviews, im all ears for other products too
 
john.patterson

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hey john

yes i am sorry i didnt clarify it!

I am looking for a stack. A Fatburner + an anti estrogen

Those are some products that i was considering based on some good reviews, im all ears for other products too
Great, thanks for clarifying! I've never been a big fan of Hydroxycut, but some people swear by it. Have you considered trying EC (Ephedrine + caffeine)? Its an incredibly effective fat loss stack. Most people will recommend you EC over other brand name thermogenics, its cheaper and more effective.

If you're looking for an anti-estrogen to stack with your fat burner, I would also suggest using a product that contains ingredients to increase natural testosterone levels. When cutting, it can be hard to keep your hormone levels balanced with the extra stress from dieting. I would recommend Alphamax XT over a strict anti-e product. Alphamax XT contains KSM-66 (ashwagandha) as well as DHAA, which both work to limit estrogen and cortisol levels. Additionally, the product also contains 25mg of forskolin per serving, which has been studied to help increase lean body mass while decreasing body fat, and it also contains a natural testosterone boosting profile including Longjack and Mucuna Pruriens to help you maintain your strength and libido while dieting.

I think approaching your cut with an all in one product like Alphamax XT, combined with a good thermogenic/fat burner like EC would set you up for great success with your cutting goals.
 

reystar22

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EC works better than clen?also between the two which one is safer? i read than clen causes heart tissue necrosis


Nolvodren XT isnt a strict anti e product i think...is it?

thats the label


Amount Per Serving % Daily Value*
Test-Estro Modulator
Androst-3,5-dien-7,17-dione 75mg
Estro-Metabolize 200mg
Diindolylmethane (DIM) 200mg
Cort-Control Matrix **
7-Hydroxy 17B-Dihydro Dehydroepiandrosterone 25mg **
7-Hydroxy Dehydroepiandrosterone 25mg **

Alphamax XT i cant even find that in greece
 
saywutrly

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I'm running Nolvadren XT stacked with Delta XT, PES Shift, and Performax SlinMax right now for a mini cut before my next cycle. Nolvadren is not a strict anti-e. It includes some DHEA metabolites for cortisol control and DIM to help test levels.

With the combo I've dropped about 1.5 lbs a week with a minute deficit and some cheating. No decrease in strength, but also no PRs.
 
TeamTGB

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john.patterson

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EC works better than clen?also between the two which one is safer? i read than clen causes heart tissue necrosis


Nolvodren XT isnt a strict anti e product i think...is it?

thats the label


Amount Per Serving % Daily Value*
Test-Estro Modulator
Androst-3,5-dien-7,17-dione 75mg
Estro-Metabolize 200mg
Diindolylmethane (DIM) 200mg
Cort-Control Matrix **
7-Hydroxy 17B-Dihydro Dehydroepiandrosterone 25mg **
7-Hydroxy Dehydroepiandrosterone 25mg **

Alphamax XT i cant even find that in greece
My apologies, I wasn't familiar with the Nolvadren XT label.

EC is arguably as effective as Clen IMO. There is much less risk using EC, and there aren't as many side effects. Clen is powerful and effective, but I've always gotten awful cramps while using it and I find it a nuisance to monitor my heart rate while doing intense exercise while using Clen. I get very similar effects using EC and Clen, and I find EC much safer
 
Quads_of_Stee

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My apologies, I wasn't familiar with the Nolvadren XT label.

EC is arguably as effective as Clen IMO. There is much less risk using EC, and there aren't as many side effects. Clen is powerful and effective, but I've always gotten awful cramps while using it and I find it a nuisance to monitor my heart rate while doing intense exercise while using Clen. I get very similar effects using EC and Clen, and I find EC much safer
ec is slightly weaker than clen, but safer. they behave in very similar ways. I would also say to try EC before jumping into clen
 
Misfit28

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Inhibit E would be awesome for lowering your estrogen. I had bloodwork done, and actually had to lower my dose, LOL.

I also think EC is an excellent choice for a fat burner. You could add SNS TTA-500 to it and maybe even SNS Lean Edge, as it is non-stim. That way you can hit the fat burning from many different angles.
 
TeamTGB

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Also most tend to get a strength increase or be able to maintain their strength better from EC
 
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I'm definitely a fan of the EC Stack route. I also like pairing high stim fat burners like Dexaprine or White Lightning with a Forskolin 95% product (like Supremacy 2.0 or bulk Forskolin) and some KSM-66. Nolvodren XT is a good OTC product for estrogen control with the Arimistane in it.
 

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EC or ECA? shouldnt ECA be better and safer?
 
john.patterson

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EC or ECA? shouldnt ECA be better and safer?
The asprin really doesn't provide much additional benefit, if any at all. EC is just as effective, and its one less pill to have to remember to take
 
chemjr

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I'm running Nolvadren XT stacked with Delta XT, PES Shift, and Performax SlinMax right now for a mini cut before my next cycle. Nolvadren is not a strict anti-e. It includes some DHEA metabolites for cortisol control and DIM to help test levels.

With the combo I've dropped about 1.5 lbs a week with a minute deficit and some cheating. No decrease in strength, but also no PRs.
The DIM is to control estrogen more so then to help w test. It will help w the "pie chart" ratio, but in the end it is a natural "anti estrogen"

I have had Great results making my own transdermal from DIM, resveratol, and chrysin. I also included 7,8 benzoflavanone for an ultimate natty ai. If you want some holler, I'll whip you up a batch. A guy on PM can vouch for its effectiveness.
 
chemjr

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Oh, and one lil helpful note, there is another brand of ephedrine that's double what primatene has. I think Bausch & lomb makes it? It's at cvs in VA and IA anyways. Good luck sir
 
thebigt

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I'm definitely a fan of the EC Stack route. I also like pairing high stim fat burners like Dexaprine or White Lightning with a Forskolin 95% product (like Supremacy 2.0 or bulk Forskolin) and some KSM-66. Nolvodren XT is a good OTC product for estrogen control with the Arimistane in it.
adding ephedra to a good stimmed fatburner as the source of caffeine is a excellent suggestion, this is what I do!!!
 
warbird01

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For the thermo I suggest EC. Check out Inhibit E if you are still looking for an AI.
 
Zoomie33240

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I have to give EC props as well and if you are looking for strictly estrogen control then you could look into El1minate by Olympus Labs. It's like $25 on Amazon and it's pure arimistane. It's a good value if all you are looking for is an arimistane or arimistane type product
 
chemjr

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Does anyone else use DIM? I do, by piping rock, 100mg DIM & 175mg cruciferous vegetable blend. Works frikin great at 3x a day, and comes w 90 to a bottle, 15$ for 2 bottles, hard to beat! And doesn't dry you out Too Much.
Any takers?
Ps- I absolutely Luv BHE's DIM which also has apigenin for absorption. A little better but So much more.
 

Daycrawler

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Does anyone else use DIM? I do, by piping rock, 100mg DIM & 175mg cruciferous vegetable blend. Works frikin great at 3x a day, and comes w 90 to a bottle, 15$ for 2 bottles, hard to beat! And doesn't dry you out Too Much.
Any takers?
Ps- I absolutely Luv BHE's DIM which also has apigenin for absorption. A little better but So much more.
Never saw much from DIM.

OP, Eradicate E from Muscle addiction, IL Invictus, Inhibit-E
 
Hockeyaus33

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With all due respect... you guys actually think EC is comparable to clen?
 
Driven2lift

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With all due respect... you guys actually think EC is comparable to clen?
If anyone does they are crazy,
Though EC does win on appetite suppression

Clen increases in caloric burn/expenditure is at least 3x that of EC.
The increased b2 expression will also shift to lean mass more effectively than Ephedrine which hits all b-receptors, and none of them nearly as strongly as clen hits that b2, which we really want up for fat loss.

Look for a write up dedicated to EC from me coming along...


For those who follow, there was good EC/clen discussion over on Body Recomposition (well, direct from Lyle on Facebook) just today
 
NoAddedHmones

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If anyone does they are crazy,
Though EC does win on appetite suppression

Clen increases in caloric burn/expenditure is at least 3x that of EC.
The increased b2 expression will also shift to lean mass more effectively than Ephedrine which hits all b-receptors, and none of them nearly as strongly as clen hits that b2, which we really want up for fat loss.

Look for a write up dedicated to EC from me coming along...


For those who follow, there was good EC/clen discussion over on Body Recomposition (well, direct from Lyle on Facebook) just today
Clen increases my appetite, gotta dose quite a bit of caffeine across the day to keep cravings in control. But yah, different ball park to EC...

What are you basing those calorie burn comparisons from? Driven2lift
 
HellAtlantic

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So can I pick up any EC stack from the Internet or are there some that are better than others? Can this info be PM'd to me if its not allowed? I googled Ephedrine but not sure if the supplier is reputable enough to actually provide ephedrine or just give me snake oil.
 
Driven2lift

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Ephedrine isnt as black market as it seems

I use HCl from here in Canada,
Most Americans seem to use bronkaid from a pharmacy
 
thebigt

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If anyone does they are crazy,
Though EC does win on appetite suppression

Clen increases in caloric burn/expenditure is at least 3x that of EC.
The increased b2 expression will also shift to lean mass more effectively than Ephedrine which hits all b-receptors, and none of them nearly as strongly as clen hits that b2, which we really want up for fat loss.

Look for a write up dedicated to EC from me coming along...


For those who follow, there was good EC/clen discussion over on Body Recomposition (well, direct from Lyle on Facebook) just today
how would adding ycl to ec effect that 3times equation?
 
Driven2lift

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how would adding ycl to ec effect that 3times equation?
Not too much, but it's a boost.
+2-3% from most data

EC was in and around a 10% boost,
Clen closer to 30 at full dose...

Clen is scary stuff compared to EC though, or even ECY; In terms of possible sides and risk

Also keep in mind all of this changes person to person and being at a different BF% changes the game too.
 
booneman77

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If you're looking for an ai, inhibit e is a solid, bloodwork proven choice.

As for fat burners, for a non stim option I'm a big fan of tta-500. It may bloat you a bit while you run it but the effects are undeniable when you finish your run. It's the perfect stacker for s stimmed run or even the eca/ecy as suggested above
 
chemjr

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Clen users beware- the way we lift already screws up out heart as is, and clen enlarges the heart and screws up other stuff too so pls read up and be careful.
Also, yohimbine is the ****. With ec stack it is comparable to running a low dose of clen. Thermo like clen.

As for quality ephedrine & caffeine- get no doze tabs for your caffeine from pharmacy, and while you're there, go to the counter and get some primatene tablets, pure ephedrine, 12.5mg a peice. And there's another brand that's 25mg a peice for same price if you can find. And I think it's Bausch & lomb.

Ps- inhibit e is good stuff.
 
NoAddedHmones

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Clen users beware- the way we lift already screws up out heart as is, and clen enlarges the heart and screws up other stuff too so pls read up and be careful.
Also, yohimbine is the ****. With ec stack it is comparable to running a low dose of clen. Thermo like clen.

As for quality ephedrine & caffeine- get no doze tabs for your caffeine from pharmacy, and while you're there, go to the counter and get some primatene tablets, pure ephedrine, 12.5mg a peice. And there's another brand that's 25mg a peice for same price if you can find. And I think it's Bausch & lomb.

Ps- inhibit e is good stuff.
Lol cool story bro.
 
saywutrly

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I thought that it was good for the heart as the heart is also a muscle which becomes stronger when under healthy stress?
 
booneman77

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I thought that it was good for the heart as the heart is also a muscle which becomes stronger when under healthy stress?
It is. That's why we're laughing at that guy.
 
booneman77

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Dude my heart got bigger when I started working out....almost like it's a muscle or something...
its because you finally discovered your one true love, just like the grinch..
 
Driven2lift

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warbird01

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Not too much, but it's a boost.
+2-3% from most data

EC was in and around a 10% boost,
Clen closer to 30 at full dose...

Clen is scary stuff compared to EC though, or even ECY; In terms of possible sides and risk

Also keep in mind all of this changes person to person and being at a different BF% changes the game too.
I can't find a link, but I am almost certain this is wrong.

2-3% for EC, 10% for clen.

30% for clen? that isn't even in the realm of believable.
 
Driven2lift

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I'm looking too, the ratio definitely came from somewhere, and note this clen dose was high,

Also very estimated, based on body temp. Changes, as human studies are rare...

You could be right here.

The 3x approximation nay have just been from a beta receptor potentiation standpoint and I'm recalling this wrong

I'd commit to a write up on clen but I don't even really recommend it.

EC is all a non-pro should need.
 
toddmuelheim

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I'm looking too, the ratio definitely came from somewhere, and note this clen dose was high,

Also very estimated, based on body temp. Changes, as human studies are rare...

You could be right here.

The 3x approximation nay have just been from a beta receptor potentiation standpoint and I'm recalling this wrong

I'd commit to a write up on clen but I don't even really recommend it.

EC is all a non-pro should need.
Would still be an interesting read
 
chemjr

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It is. That's why we're laughing at that guy.
Laugh all you want. At least I won't be the one w fkt arteries. Seriously, none of you know the dangers of running clen at the doses you all do? You laugh now, and I'll comfort your wives when your dead bc you decided to keep running clen all the time and fk up your arteries/ heart.
And yes, the heart Is a muscle, and any ELITE ATHLETE* (not just some meathead) or serious long time lifter will have an enlarged heart, which is yet another issue as you age.
I don't know about you all, but I'd like to live past 45-50, and with some quality of life too. Too funny.
 
chemjr

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Anyone find that Bausch & Lomb product?
If you go to your local Walgreens they'll have it right next to the primatine tablets, and it's 25mg per tab instead of 12.5.


And driven- you wouldn't reccomend clen, yet you'll do a write up for what is 99% of what is going to be Non Pro's? Good for you bud.
All the info is out there. If they want to know, all they have to do is take the time. But do what you do. And before you bash, maybe look a little deeper into your own posts and so called knowledge. Just because I'm not going to sit here and give a chemistry lesson doesn't mean you are correct bc you'll throw a few phrases & terms around. I'll check on your girl in about 20, peace.
Fkn a, this is why I stopped using this board- fkrs always talking ****. Can't it just be a place for ppl to learn? Cmon ppl.
 
saywutrly

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I've never had a problem with anyone talking **** to me, even when I was an idiot n00b. I'd reckon that it had something to do with your attitude. Most people who come in like you post research papers and other data to back up their claims if they're outnumbered, not get all bitchy.
 
justhere4comm

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i plan on cutting next week so i'm getting some stuff

as for a fat burner i'm gonna try HYDROXYCUT HARDCORE NEXT GEN, Olympus Labs Amp1burn or Pro Supps DNPX II

for anti estrogen i read some good reviews about Nolvadren XT, i have used erase pro in the past, was ok, i hope Nolvadren XT is more powerful


any other supp that i can use to help me cut?
I'm using Exotherm, Incinderine, for fat and Letrone for E.

Black Lion Research.

Plus. Invictus by Iron Legion for cotisol control

Also will be adding a mid day fat burner (log) to the fire with Synadrene by Hi Tech Pharma. When it arrives.

This is for me 6-8 week cut starting officially Friday.
 
warbird01

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I've never had a problem with anyone talking **** to me, even when I was an idiot n00b. I'd reckon that it had something to do with your attitude. Most people who come in like you post research papers and other data to back up their claims if they're outnumbered, not get all bitchy.
To be fair, I thought it was common knowledge that clen ****ed up your heart. I think there was new research a few years ago (or maybe it was old research that just resurfaced), which showed prolonged use ****ed up your heart. But it was prolonged use as I recall, not short 2-4 week cycles.
 
chemjr

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I've never had a problem with anyone talking **** to me, even when I was an idiot n00b. I'd reckon that it had something to do with your attitude. Most people who come in like you post research papers and other data to back up their claims if they're outnumbered, not get all bitchy.
I agree whole heartedly*sp. And idiot newb is def not how I'd classify myself. And I don't recall coping an attitude w anyone until I was on the defensive.
I try to err on the side of what science has proven and less on bro-science. And I always Try not have an attitude or even react, but it was just one of those days, so I happily withdraw myself from this topic/thread as far as posting goes and wish you all the best.
Also, I truly wish you all the best in your endeavors and health, again, one of those days. So I will apologize for letting someone's opinion of me, who doesn't even know me, get to me (too many "me"s I know lol).
And lastly, it was the dosage of clen that was horrible for arteries iirc, not so much the frequency. I'll see if I can find the write up. A bit busy atm w pituitary tumor and such so if I find it cool. If not, Google and it'll come up somewhere. But there's a reason it was removed from the market, bc obv big pharma wants as much money as possible.
Good day to all and to all a good google search. Out.

Edited- the reason I was so "simple" or "stupid" about heart enlargement is bc this is after all under the supplement forum, which a lot of ture newbs may be reading and don't want them thinking clen is the end all be all of fat loss/ only way to go. And also, it has been shown time and time again that the way we lift enlarges the heart to a degree to where if we needed a transplant one day, things could become a problem, etc. So b4 you bash just try to consider who we're giving info to.

And I also think it's posts like these that make it so hard for some of very new guys to ask questions- fear of being ridiculed. But wtvr makes you feel superior.
 

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Personally wouldn't touch Clen.

EC is quite effective for all my needs.

EC + Inhibit-E is all I need
 

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