Natural Sup Help

[JellyJesus]

Some basic info..

23 years of age, 6'4'', 235-240 lbs, been working out for about a year and seriously training for about 5 months.

Diet is not perfect, but I eat around 2500-3000 calories a day. Don't count macros but am very conscious about what I eat. My goal since the beginning was to slowly increase strength while toning up my physique by loosing weight. Don't want to sound petty but honesty I just want to look better.

In high school I was a great athlete and worked out 7 times a week, whether it be the gym, or pick up basketball games. College came around and I completely stopped being active and gained a lot of weight (190 to about 250-260). A lot of of this weight gain was my frame simply growing but I packed on a lot of stomach fat.

Last summer I decided it was time to start loosing some weight and got down to 220 then started to try and 'bulk up'. Now I'm at a comfortable weight and have gotten much much stronger. Progress was so quick at first I couldn't believe, got multiple compliments, and loved the way I was feeling. Fast forward to now and progress has almost come to a halt.

Hormonal products frighten me so I would like to stay natural for now. I have done a lot of research and still don't know what would be best for me. I just want a little edge to push past some plateaus I've reached.
I would like to try and cut down for summer so I guess I need to run a good calorie deficit but I don't want to weaken. Even though my goals are more about the way I look, I love making strength gains, it's what keeps me motivated. What would be some good products that can keep me as strong, or slightly help while I'm running low on calories.


Epi
Laxogenin
ARA
Test Boosters

All seem to have good results here just would like some more info to what would work under my certain situation. Thanks for any suggestions, any help is greatly appreciated.

 

[big_jewels]

What supps are you taking already ?

 

[JellyJesus]

What supps are you taking already ?

Pre workout - mesomorph
Creatine
Whey protein.

Just the basics.

 

[rascal14]

I'd go with ARA for strength. Maybe bridge it with Epic if money is no issue.

If you want a fat burner EC is always good and relatively cheap. I've used it and liked it, I just started a log on Controlled Labs Red Ghost, which is their new fat burner if you want to follow that it's in the supplement logs section.

 

[JellyJesus]

I'd go with ARA for strength. Maybe bridge it with Epic if money is no issue.

If you want a fat burner EC is always good and relatively cheap. I've used it and liked it, I just started a log on Controlled Labs Red Ghost, which is their new fat burner if you want to follow that it's in the supplement logs section.

Ec? Sorry I'm not quite up to date on the forum lingo yet haha. Thanks for the recommendation, I will definitely follow your log.

 

[big_jewels]

What supps are you taking already ?

What I've noticed also being natty that has helped me break plateaus recently was Ep1c Unleashed by Olympus Labs and Derma Str3ngth Unleashed by Olympus Labs, Beyond that they have a good Ergogenic Aid in Triumph that may be beneficial to you to and replace your normal generic Creatine. Mostly though what has helped me come this far is always mixing the proteins I eat at meals (IE, eggs and bacon, ground pork and ground beef, chicken and turkey) and changing up what I have at certain meals, also taking digestive enzymes with my last 2 meals of the day. Again it's all individualistic somethings that have worked for me may not work for you, but I hope this can help in some sort of way.

 

[rascal14]

Ec? Sorry I'm not quite up to date on the forum lingo yet haha. Thanks for the recommendation, I will definitely follow your log.

Ephedrine and caffeine.

Take one 200mg caffeine tablet with one bronkaid tablet 2-3 times a day. You can also add in Yohimbine if you tolerate the EC well by itself.

You can buy the Bronkaid from a CVS or Walgreens without a prescription, they'll probably ask for your ID, but it's to keep track and make sure you aren't buying a ton to make meth. You are able to buy enough for 3 times a day dosing for as long as you'd like.

 

[Driven2lift]

Strong vote here for Ergonine,

9 ergogens (ingredients studied to enhance physical performance) in 1 scoop/day

This is entirely natural and carries many secondary health benefits, on top of the ability to assist building lean mass, and recover better.

You already have one if the 9 ingredients (creatine) but its so cheap I don't worry about it really, or try this out once you finish it up for amplified results.

Check it out here:
http://store.lockoutforums.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=3&products_id=2005158

 

[john.patterson]

What you're describing in your original post is a recomp - gaining strength while losing fat simultaneously. It's possible to achieve these results, but you'll need to be very consistent with your diet, and flexible with making adjustments according to your progress.

The products you've mentioned are all popular products, but I feel that ArA is better used during a bulk. My recommendation would be AlphaMax XT. It's a great product to use for cutting and recomping to help increase strength while getting leaner. AlphaMax XT contains a powerful profile of ingredients to help boost natural test production while limiting cortisol and estrogen. It also contains a full dose of Forskolin, which has been studied to help increase lean mass while decreasing fat mass.

 

[LeanEngineer]

I think x gels, x factor, abe, follidrone, ep1c unleashed, epi cat, epi 2.0 and anafuse are all great options. There's definitely more but those are the ones of the top of my head that you could choose from.

 

[georgetown]

Id second alphamax xt^ or oxymax xt

 

[cheftepesh1]

Of your list I think your best run would be ARA. Pick up enough for a longer run of either x gels or xfactor.

 

[JellyJesus]

Lots of votes for ARA. How bad are the doms? I've read a lot of people are honestly surprised by the increase in soreness. Maybe get some x gels and ergonine to help with soreness.

Do bcaas help? I bought a tub a while back and didn't see enough help to validate the costs. Maybe with ARA they would help a little since the soreness is supposed to be much worse?

 

[rascal14]

Lots of votes for ARA. How bad are the doms? I've read a lot of people are honestly surprised by the increase in soreness. Maybe get some x gels and ergonine to help with soreness.

Do bcaas help? I bought a tub a while back and didn't see enough help to validate the costs. Maybe with ARA they would help a little since the soreness is supposed to be much worse?

I've never gotten any additional soreness from ARA.

BCAAs for if you train fasted is the only thing I'd recommend.

 

[booneman77]

I've never gotten any additional soreness from ARA.

BCAAs for if you train fasted is the only thing I'd recommend.

This. I personally don't get any extra doms or joint pain from ara either.

Stacking x gels and Abe is one of, if not the, favorite stack I've ever used.

For some additional (and super cheap) strength benefits, you can add creatinol-o-phosphate as well. SNS makes it for dirt cheap and it has great effects (and is in no way the same as regular creatine so you can use both)

 

[toddmuelheim]

X gels didn't bother me with soreness either. It only bothered me because my clothes didn't fit anymore and I had trouble getting through doorways because all the muscles

 

[booneman77]

X gels didn't bother me with soreness either. It only bothered me because my clothes didn't fit anymore and I had trouble getting through doorways because all the muscles

Ahhh such is the life of a monster

 

[Daycrawler]

Lots of votes for ARA. How bad are the doms? I've read a lot of people are honestly surprised by the increase in soreness. Maybe get some x gels and ergonine to help with soreness.

Do bcaas help? I bought a tub a while back and didn't see enough help to validate the costs. Maybe with ARA they would help a little since the soreness is supposed to be much worse?

I did 2g of ArA a day for 60 days (yeah long cycle is long) and it was awesome.

I had some bad DOMs about 30ish days in, and just fought through them but overall it was fine.

Keep in mind I think 1g ArA is plenty.

 

[JellyJesus]

X gels didn't bother me with soreness either. It only bothered me because my clothes didn't fit anymore and I had trouble getting through doorways because all the muscles

Lol. Steep claims there. Might have to wait till I can buy more clothes as I am already getting made fun of by all my buddies for my clothes being to tight haha.

 

[booneman77]

Lol. Steep claims there. Might have to wait till I can buy more clothes as I am already getting made fun of by all my buddies for my clothes being to tight haha.

The nice part about getting bigger is eventually people are too scared to make fun of you... Just grow a little more and it won't matter if you're wearing a pink g string, they won't laugh unless you tell them to haha

 

[Segansational]

JellyJesus, sounds like you've got a good starting base with some basics. As you mentioned wanting to cut down, decreasing calories is essential. Start decreasing by 500 cals a week and see how that treats you. Of the supplements listed, epicatechin would be my recommendation if you were to choose one (and starting out I do recommend keeping it simple). Epi will help with endurance and a lot of users report maintaining strength while on a cut, while experiencing a leaning effect. Olympus Labs EP1C Unleashed would be a great option.

At your age a test booster really won't provide any benefits, so save it for later. You could of course pick up a fat burner, like our new release IGNIT3, but if you do choose that route I would recommend dropping the pre. But sounds like you have a reasonable plan.

 

[Raice46]

Look man, I'm a recovering meth addict. Okay so when I got off the stuff, I put on a ****-ton of weight, even tried some prohormones. But if u understand training intensity, I can give u some pointers that have helped me recomp. I train super-intense on body part splits, 45 minutes a day no more than that for weight training, not including warm-up and stretching. Watch Dorian Yates videos, and read anything by Mentzer....Now I also put in an hour on the treadmill...now in the beginning it was like walk for 2-3 minutes at 1.5 degree incline speed 3.8-4.0, than run at 5.0 for as long as possible, then walk run til I hit an hour. I write all my data down, meticulously, and I talk with other people constantly, stuff that helps I keep, toss all the other bull****. I'm up to 50 minute runs and walk-run last 10 minutes, down pretty low on body fat finally!! So I never had to bust into any stims. But I was ready to bust into a stim program that's a little kinder on thyroid and adrenal glands. K? With me? U go 2 days hitting beta receptors and 2 days hitting alpha receptors, back and forth. Yohimbine HCL, and ephedra, back and forth....but I'd hold off on that for when your hitting your next level of building muscle...most bang for your buck. But some of the fat might be estrogen based from not being active while u were in school. Check out this bad-ass support called DIM. And check-it, check out Geard Up podcasts, feed and a part of their weekly program called Muscle U. Real talk from real people. Good **** bro! Hope u hit ur goals...Sick em!!

 

[rascal14]

Wrong thread

 

[JellyJesus]

I'm going to go with x-gels, and ep1c unleashed I believe. Seems these are some of the most popular natural supplements. Should I stagger them or stack them? I plan to do both for 8 weeks either way. I will also do some research on ergonine and tr1umph and see which ingredients looks better to me.

 

[EMPIREMIND]

I just want a little edge to push past some plateaus I've reached.
I would like to try and cut down for summer so I guess I need to run a good calorie deficit but I don't want to weaken. Even though my goals are more about the way I look, I love making strength gains, it's what keeps me motivated. What would be some good products that can keep me as strong, or slightly help while I'm running low on calories.

The first thing i would reccommend is a solid multi. I really like source naturals life force. Very very affordable for the ingreient profile and the most complete ive ever seen.

Cl orange triad is good too.

Then i would reccommend fish oil.

Without those, i wouldnt invest any further, especially in a deficit.

Another great addition would be letchithin grauales for PA. This is around 8 bucks a month. I would reccommend pa over all the ones you listed. Saw the most from it out of them all and for a fraction of the cost.

 

[T-Bone]

I wouldn't recommend a test booster for a 23 year old. I think X-gels would be a great fit for you. There is a thread on here that will answer any possible questions on it. It's HUGE,

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplements/246394-arachidonic-acid-help.html


That thread has absolutely everything about ArA in it.

 

[TeamTGB]

X-Gels are on there way!, and we have free shipping for first orders on am with the code amship
http://www.tgbsupplements.com/product/sns-x-gels/

 

[Jiigzz]

X gels didn't bother me with soreness either. It only bothered me because my clothes didn't fit anymore and I had trouble getting through doorways because all the muscles

Haha. Too good

 

[JellyJesus]

The first thing i would reccommend is a solid multi. I really like source naturals life force. Very very affordable for the ingreient profile and the most complete ive ever seen.

Cl orange triad is good too.

Then i would reccommend fish oil.

Without those, i wouldnt invest any further, especially in a deficit.

Another great addition would be letchithin grauales for PA. This is around 8 bucks a month. I would reccommend pa over all the ones you listed. Saw the most from it out of them all and for a fraction of the cost.

Already taking a multi and fish vitamins, but will definitely look into your suggestions.

 

[big_jewels]

I'm going to go with x-gels, and ep1c unleashed I believe. Seems these are some of the most popular natural supplements. Should I stagger them or stack them? I plan to do both for 8 weeks either way. I will also do some research on ergonine and tr1umph and see which ingredients looks better to me.

Stack them I could see them working quite well synergistically.

 

[BlockBuilder]

Anabeta Elite/erase is always a fun stack..creatinol o phosphate, beta alanine, phosphatidic Acid are some good additions as well to what others have said

 

[brundel]

We just released a new version of FOLLIDRONE.
Amazing absorption package for the epicatechin and 3 additional active ingredients. Even if you took the epicatechin out this would likely be the strongest natural muscle builder I know of.

One of the ingredients Ecklonia Cava
"ECE Beverage: 2-Week Clinical Trial
In a human study, 141 young adults were given a beverage containing ECE at 200 mg daily. In two weeks their average weight dropped nearly 2.5 pounds, muscle mass increased by nearly 2.5 pounds, and body fat dropped by 4 pounds, or 7.48%. EC stimulates the body to burn fat by increasing muscle mass.
"

Read more the writeup has alot of info regarding how FOLLIDRONE 2.0 can help you reach your goals.

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/black-lion-research/279849-follidrone-2-0-a.html

 

[JellyJesus]

Purchased some creatinol-o-phosphate, and planned to do some x-gels with epi. BUT I've been reading that epi has slight hindrance to ARA and since this would be my first go at muscle building sup I think it would be better to try one substance at a time to see how my body reacts, especially if the two supplements I attempt to run hinder each other... So instead of doing the plan said above, I am going to try 8 weeks of this new follidrone 2.0. The original seemed to get great feedback and this new formula seems huge in comparison. If anyone is interested I'd be happy to log this product thoroughly and share my experience with the forum members here. It's the least I can do from all the help that's been given to me.

 

[Audioph1x]

I wouldn't worry about Epicatchin hindering Arachidonic Acid. I'm running them together right now and it's very nice. I started the Epicatechin towards the end of the first full bottle of ArA. I'm gonna run the epi longer if I can.

 

[toddmuelheim]

I agree I wouldn't worry about it but they are my two favorite natty supps so it might be a good idea to take them separately at first just so you can see the effects of each.

 

[Jiigzz]

Purchased some creatinol-o-phosphate, and planned to do some x-gels with epi. BUT I've been reading that epi has slight hindrance to ARA and since this would be my first go at muscle building sup I think it would be better to try one substance at a time to see how my body reacts, especially if the two supplements I attempt to run hinder each other... So instead of doing the plan said above, I am going to try 8 weeks of this new follidrone 2.0. The original seemed to get great feedback and this new formula seems huge in comparison. If anyone is interested I'd be happy to log this product thoroughly and share my experience with the forum members here. It's the least I can do from all the help that's been given to me.

Im interested In hearing your feedback on follidrone 2.0.

I also wouldnt be too concerned with stacking the two, but I can see why some might say avoid it. At the end of the day id go with what you feel is best

 

[JellyJesus]

Im interested In hearing your feedback on follidrone 2.0.

I also wouldnt be too concerned with stacking the two, but I can see why some might say avoid it. At the end of the day id go with what you feel is best

Well honestly I don't know whats best haha. Just going off others advice and some reading I'm doing here and there, X-gels are definitely still on my go to list, and if there really isn't any issue to stack them, I may continue with the stack of x-gels and follidrone 2.0.

 

[Jiigzz]

Well honestly I don't know whats best haha. Just going off others advice and some reading I'm doing here and there, X-gels are definitely still on my go to list, and if there really isn't any issue to stack them, I may continue with the stack of x-gels and follidrone 2.0.

There are two trains of thought - that anything anti inflammatory should be dosed as far away from xgels as possible or that they should be eliminated altogether for the duration. IMO Epi is not a potent enough Cox 2 inhibitor to warrant an issue but ill have to double check when I am able.