Intra-workout... Do you need carbs?

[spirall08]

Came across this article:
T Nation | What You Don't Know About Workout Supplementation

TO sum it up:
"During the workout itself, our smart lifter continues to sip a combination of this same special carbohydrate blend and di- and tripeptide formulation"

I've always just sipped on 2 scopps of BCAA's throughout my workout. There aren't any carbs in them at all. Just wanted to get an idea of what you guys sip intra workout?

My goal is to bulk/gain weight. I train 1-2 muscles/day and go anywhere from 75-90 mins.

 

[Nyrin]

The very first bullet point on their 'article':

When you consume nutrients is as important as what nutrients you consume, at least if you want to optimize muscle size, body comp, recovery, performance, and strength.

That already establishes 0 credibility in my mind.

If your body is already adequately fueled, no intraworkout supplement of any sort is needed. BCAAs can be useful before a fasted workout; EAAs can be useful during a fasted workout; neither are particularly useful if you're postprandial.

Carbohydrates? Some report recovery benefits associated with pre-workout or intra-workout supplementation of normal or fast-digesting carbs (respectively), but I'm not aware of much science showing any direct benefit.

 

[breezy11]

Does everybody need carbs intra workout? No. Can they be beneficial? It depends. For advanced trainees, using high volume and intensity, I believe they can be very beneficial when combined with BCAAs/EAAs and/or hydrolyzed proteins (with a high % di and tri peptides). The rest of one's peri-workout and overall nutrition will play a big role in their importance/benefit as well (if everything else isn't on point, I wouldn't be worried about intra nutrition). For the average lifter, the benefit might not be as great, and money and focus could most likely be better spent elsewhere. While there aren't any studies done on advanced trainees sipping these specific nutrients and training with a high level of volume and intensity, there are a large amount of high level trainees and competitors reporting exactly the same benefits from their use, mainly greatly improved recovery. With the enhanced recovery, training frequency can be increased, allowing more opportunities for growth. I personally use Amino IV and/or Peptopro with highly branched cyclic dextrins intra workout and the benefits have been very obvious.

 

[Swolbraham]

Does everybody need carbs intra workout? No. Can they be beneficial? It depends. For advanced trainees, using high volume and intensity, I believe they can be very beneficial when combined with BCAAs/EAAs and/or hydrolyzed proteins (with a high % di and tri peptides). The rest of one's peri and overall nutrition will play a big role in their importance/benefit as well (if everything else isn't on point, I wouldn't be worried about intra nutrition). For the average lifter, the benefit might not be as great, and money and focus could most likely be better spent elsewhere. While there aren't any studies done on advanced trainees sipping these specific nutrients and training with a high level of volume and intensity, there are a large amount of high level trainees and competitors reporting exactly the same benefits from their use, mainly greatly improved recovery. With the enhanced recovery, training frequency can be increased, allowing more opportunities for growth. I personally use AminoIV and/or Peptopro with highly branched cyclic dextrins intra workout and the benefits have been very obvious.

Strong this. I think it's a little ridiculous that because there's no "studies" on something or "this study says that" that people tend to throw an idea or a protocol out the window.

Try it, if you like it and it helps, then great keel going. If not discontinue it. Not knocking you Nyrin, hope it doesn't come off that way, but I just feel as though too many people rely on a piece of paper from scientists to confirm to them this improves performance for some. Balance is needed between science and anecdotal feedback

 

[kevinhy]

Does everybody need carbs intra workout? No. Can they be beneficial? It depends. For advanced trainees, using high volume and intensity, I believe they can be very beneficial when combined with BCAAs/EAAs and/or hydrolyzed proteins (with a high % di and tri peptides). The rest of one's peri and overall nutrition will play a big role in their importance/benefit as well (if everything else isn't on point, I wouldn't be worried about intra nutrition). For the average lifter, the benefit might not be as great, and money and focus could most likely be better spent elsewhere. While there aren't any studies done on advanced trainees sipping these specific nutrients and training with a high level of volume and intensity, there are a large amount of high level trainees and competitors reporting exactly the same benefits from their use, mainly greatly improved recovery. With the enhanced recovery, training frequency can be increased, allowing more opportunities for growth. I personally use AminoIV and/or Peptopro with highly branched cyclic dextrins intra workout and the benefits have been very obvious.

I concur with this absolutely. Does everyone need them? Absolutely not, especially if you're not lean and/or dont train hard. You better believe if you train like you have some BALLS, have a low body fat, and are looking to grow that they will only help you. I dont personally use a ton, however even the addition of 25g maltodextrin or dextrose to my intraworkout Amino IV has had a substantial effect on my recovery, strength, etc.

 

[kissdadookie]

Came across this article:
T Nation | What You Don't Know About Workout Supplementation

TO sum it up:
"During the workout itself, our smart lifter continues to sip a combination of this same special carbohydrate blend and di- and tripeptide formulation"

I've always just sipped on 2 scopps of BCAA's throughout my workout. There aren't any carbs in them at all. Just wanted to get an idea of what you guys sip intra workout?

My goal is to bulk/gain weight. I train 1-2 muscles/day and go anywhere from 75-90 mins.

Worse case scenario, they don't provide extra benefits (but at no cost to gains or fat loss). Most likely scenario, you have fuller muscles throughout your workout, you are able to sustain a good level of intensity throughout a lengthy session, and it makes having to take in that post workout meal less important or at minimum, you can just down 20 grams of protein if you wish to be cautious but have that actual post workout meal as late as 2 hours post workout because you are still in a somewhat fed state from the pre and intra workout nutrition.

 

[kissdadookie]

The very first bullet point on their 'article':



That already establishes 0 credibility in my mind.

If your body is already adequately fueled, no intraworkout supplement of any sort is needed. BCAAs can be useful before a fasted workout; EAAs can be useful during a fasted workout; neither are particularly useful if you're postprandial.

Carbohydrates? Some report recovery benefits associated with pre-workout or intra-workout supplementation of normal or fast-digesting carbs (respectively), but I'm not aware of much science showing any direct benefit.

If you're in a fasted state, it's actually far more beneficial to have that aminos/proteins + carbs post and intra (intra if you have long and high intensity sessions). Fasted training with just some aminos is just silly TBH. You're in the gym to make gains, not try to lose fat or something like that. Fuel your workouts.

 

[Nyrin]

That makes intuitive sense, but there's a mounting amount of reasonable scientific evidence showing benefits to fasted state training that go beyond losing fat.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20837645

This study for the first time shows that fasted training is more potent than fed training to facilitate adaptations in muscle and to improve whole-body glucose tolerance and insulin sensitivity during hyper-caloric fat-rich diet.

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00421-009-1289-x

Our results indicate that prior fasting may stimulate the intramyocellular anabolic response to ingestion of a carbohydrate/protein/leucine mixture following a heavy resistance training session.

I'm not claiming it's a done deal one way or the other, but a lot of trainees (including myself at this point) have actually experienced better progress with less fat gain using a fasted training protocol than a postprandial one. And I think that intraworkout carbohydrate supplementation of any significant degree is going to more closely mimic a postprandial state than a fasted one, even if there are some notable differences.

 

[kevinhy]

I think theres a lot more to it than those two studies, and if i felt up to it I could probably find 30 studies that go against your fasted training in terms of optimal results - both body composition and performance.

 

[Nyrin]

I think theres a lot more to it than those two studies, and if i felt up to it I could probably find 30 studies that go against your fasted training in terms of optimal results - both body composition and performance.

Performance I certainly wouldn't argue; aside from those who eat too much and get nauseous, I'm pretty sure everyone's going to perform a bit better fed than fasted.

I'd actually be really interested in reading such studies for body composition and muscle growth, though. I'm on a bulk now and if what you're arguing is well-substantiated, I'd sincerely want to adjust my protocol. I only kept up the fasted training after my cut to see if the research I had read would apply well to me.

The only studies I've found suggesting the opposite, that anabolism and body composition are beneficially skewed towards postprandial workouts, are ones like this: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21165642 -- the trouble there is that they're comparing a postprandial exertion to one with no feeding at all, even post-workout. Well, duh, thanks for the great use of research money. Even the researchers in that linked study only conclude that eating "in close proximity to" exercise is the key.

 

[kissdadookie]

That makes intuitive sense, but there's a mounting amount of reasonable scientific evidence showing benefits to fasted state training that go beyond losing fat.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20837645



http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00421-009-1289-x



I'm not claiming it's a done deal one way or the other, but a lot of trainees (including myself at this point) have actually experienced better progress with less fat gain using a fasted training protocol than a postprandial one. And I think that intraworkout carbohydrate supplementation of any significant degree is going to more closely mimic a postprandial state than a fasted one, even if there are some notable differences.

The first study you linked used subjects that averaged 3.5 hours of sports/exercise a week. Uhm, hello? I thought we were all trying to make gains and and pounding it out in the gym like you know, people that actually lifts? I don't see how that poor subject sample applies to many of us. Nutrient requirements are going to be different here.

The second study, I can't make a stand for or against based off that abstract. I need to see what their methodology was.

 

[Nyrin]

The first study you linked used subjects that averaged 3.5 hours of sports/exercise a week. Uhm, hello? I thought we were all trying to make gains and and pounding it out in the gym like you know, people that actually lifts? I don't see how that poor subject sample applies to many of us. Nutrient requirements are going to be different here.

Subjects participated in two 60 min and two 90 min supervised training sessions per week, always between 06.30 and 09.00 h.

That's 5 hours per week, not 3. The bigger conflation/mismatch is that it appears to have been purely endurance training.

 

[kissdadookie]

That's 5 hours per week, not 3. The bigger conflation/mismatch is that it appears to have been purely endurance training.

"All subjects were involved in regular sports and physical activity at a rate of ∼3.5 h per week (range 2–6 h)"

What 5 hours? The average is 3.5 hours per week. Says so right there in the Subjects section of the paper. It doesn't even matter if they were testing for endurance or not. Averaging 3.5 hours of exercise per week, that's like a session and a half for a lot of people here. Maybe 2 lift sessions.

As for lipolysis: "In women, consuming carbohydrate before exercise may potentially be more beneficial for fat oxidation than consuming carbohydrate post-exercise" (Honnor. 2013). Throws the whole theory of fasted training being more beneficial right out the window doesn't it? Also, even if the second study you linked was relevant, they were looking at essentially protein synthesis. The goal with peri-workout nutrition is not necessarily solely to ramp up MPS, it's to balance out mTOR and AMPK. Things don't work in isolation, you have to also factor in the environment/situation as a whole. Stringing together findings from several isolated results does not necessarily give you an accurate look at what actually happens in practice.

 

[tommurph]

The first study you linked used subjects that averaged 3.5 hours of sports/exercise a week. Uhm, hello? I thought we were all trying to make gains and and pounding it out in the gym like you know, people that actually lifts? I don't see how that poor subject sample applies to many of us. Nutrient requirements are going to be different here. The second study, I can't make a stand for or against based off that abstract. I need to see what their methodology was.

All subjects tested from local Planet Fitness, observing all "no intimidation" and "no judgement" rules careful of "no lunk" alarms. Inter-workout carbs provided on "Pizza Monday", "Doughnut Wednesday", and "Bagel Friday"! Another proud study brought to you from Planet Fitness!

 

[Nyrin]

"All subjects were involved in regular sports and physical activity at a rate of ∼3.5 h per week (range 2–6 h)"

What 5 hours? The average is 3.5 hours per week. Says so right there in the Subjects section of the paper. It doesn't even matter if they were testing for endurance or not. Averaging 3.5 hours of exercise per week, that's like a session and a half for a lot of people here. Maybe 2 lift sessions.

That's pre-intervention; we may have been looking at different things. Regardless, subjects self-reporting 2-6h of intentional physical activity per week don't seem to be a bad sample set, even if not ideal. All subjects in the intervention groups then did that 5h per week protocol as part of the study, with the control ceasing exercise.

As for lipolysis: "In women, consuming carbohydrate before exercise may potentially be more beneficial for fat oxidation than consuming carbohydrate post-exercise" (Honnor. 2013). Throws the whole theory of fasted training being more beneficial right out the window doesn't it? Also, even if the second study you linked was relevant, they were looking at essentially protein synthesis. The goal with peri-workout nutrition is not necessarily solely to ramp up MPS, it's to balance out mTOR and AMPK. Things don't work in isolation, you have to also factor in the environment/situation as a whole. Stringing together findings from several isolated results does not necessarily give you an accurate look at what actually happens in practice.

That's an interesting study, to be sure. I'm not trying to be confrontational here. Like I said, I'm really interested in finding the best protocol I can to help stimulate muscle growth and (secondary) positive modulation of body composition. I fully understand that the processes are more complicated than one variable--I'd very much like to see evidence pointing in the other direction.

 

[kissdadookie]

That's pre-intervention; we may have been looking at different things. Regardless, subjects self-reporting 2-6h of intentional physical activity per week don't seem to be a bad sample set, even if not ideal. All subjects in the intervention groups then did that 5h per week protocol as part of the study, with the control ceasing exercise.



That's an interesting study, to be sure. I'm not trying to be confrontational here. Like I said, I'm really interested in finding the best protocol I can to help stimulate muscle growth and (secondary) positive modulation of body composition. I fully understand that the processes are more complicated than one variable--I'd very much like to see evidence pointing in the other direction.

It doesn't matter what the workouts used during the study was. What matters is what level of fitness these subjects were before hand. That really dictates the results afterwards. That subjects sample may be applicable to your average population, but it really is not going to be applicable to many of us whom are training far more than those subjects. There was a study that I saw not too long ago where they’ve noted the use of nutrients or nutrient timing (forgot which) was DIFFERENT between seasoned lifters and your average recreational lifter/exercising individual.

Here, enjoy: http://suppversity.blogspot.com/2014/08/protein-timing-does-matter-yet-only-in.html

Even though that looks at only post workout nutrition, we basically just need similar studies done for pre and intra workout nutrition. As you can see from that though, nutrient timing obviously is not the same across the board for everyone since ones fitness level would appear to have an impact on nutrient timing importance.

 

[kevinhy]

http://pulsthjalfun.is/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/doescardio.pdf


/thread.

 

[kissdadookie]

Here's some more

http://suppversity.blogspot.com/2013/12/22g-high-eaa-6g-protein-36g-cho-pre.html

http://suppversity.blogspot.com/2012/11/low-fat-toddler-high-fat-adult-intra.html (second study in that roundup)

I dunno Nyrin, looks like at worse no change in body comp but there's lots of evidence that there are benefits there with peri-workout nutrition.

 

[bolt10]

http://pulsthjalfun.is/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/doescardio.pdf


/thread.

Was gonna post this. Beat me to it.

I concur with Breezy and Kevin...I also just mix my Amino IV with some Gatorade powder and amount depends on how much volume I have planned for the day.

 

[schizm]

Was gonna post this. Beat me to it.

I concur with Breezy and Kevin...I also just mix my Amino IV with some Gatorade powder and amount depends on how much volume I have planned for the day.

Have been doing just that over the last couple of weeks, after years of having carb phobia around a fasted workout, def seeing some improvements...

 

[NattyForLife]

I have used intra carbs before and like them! Just try it and see if you like it!

 

[snagencyV2.0]

ahhh, the age-old debate and arguments....

If your body is already adequately fueled, no intraworkout supplement of any sort is needed. BCAAs can be useful before a fasted workout; EAAs can be useful during a fasted workout; neither are particularly useful if you're postprandial.

I kinda like this nyrin guy, intellectually he seems pretty sound and logical

Fasted training with just some aminos is just silly TBH. You're in the gym to make gains, not try to lose fat or something like that. Fuel your workouts.

mmm I kinda like you too dookster, but you have the irritating (or adorable, depending on which side of the fence you are on) habit of only taking one isolated segment into the scope of the discussion, and trying to build all-inclusive arguments based on this ... which, unfortunately, equals pretty erroneous outlook

not everybody trains for the same things, ppl's desires and goals are differnet, and some (esp those who do practice fasted-training) are certainly after fat-burning and general fitness, rather than the all-mighty "gainzzzzzzz"

 

[kissdadookie]

ahhh, the age-old debate and arguments....


I kinda like this nyrin guy, intellectually he seems pretty sound and logical

mmm I kinda like you too dookster, but you have the irritating (or adorable, depending on which side of the fence you are on) habit of only taking one isolated segment into the scope of the discussion, and trying to build all-inclusive arguments based on this ... which, unfortunately, equals pretty erroneous outlook

not everybody trains for the same things, ppl's desires and goals are differnet, and some (esp those who do practice fasted-training) are certainly after fat-burning and general fitness, rather than the all-mighty "gainzzzzzzz"

Fair enough, but I haven't seen much evidence in practice or studies that shows fasted training results in better total fat burn/body composition

 

[snagencyV2.0]

I haven't seen much evidence in practice or studies that shows fasted training results in better total fat burn/body composition

this of course will be dependent on what else the individual is consuming or doing with the rest of their day, in the long run..
fasted training is certainly conducive to using fat stores for energy, within the training session...especially rising fasted upon training...
BUT - if the individual blows up their day with poor nutrition choices afterwards, well it is all for naught no? :shrug:

 

[kissdadookie]

this of course will be dependent on what else the individual is consuming or doing with the rest of their day, in the long run..
fasted training is certainly conducive to using fat stores for energy, within the training session...especially rising fasted upon training...
BUT - if the individual blows up their day with poor nutrition choices afterwards, well it is all for naught no? :shrug:

Fair enough.

 

[Jstrong20]

I have trained fasted and have used carbs intra. No real difference here. I actually trained after work(overhead hammering all day/jackhammering) plus 20 hours fasted and still was able to make gains. I don't fast anymore but it taught me that their is no need to eat 8. Times a day like I used to. I eat 3. Big meals now and it works just as well. Leucine is a didifferent story. It defiantley enhances recovery for me.

 

[Jiigzz]

I love intra workout supplementation purely for its effects on recovery. It is my recovery that either prevents or allows another gym session given that if I am too sore for a muscle group, then I cannot hit it again with as much intensity. So I use intra workout stuff, not for mTOR or AMPK per se, but rather the feeling of accelerated recovery.

Also bare in mind that there are so many different BB routines that finding a study that suits your exact protocol is not likely to happen. There is far too much variation. I think Breezy outlines it best

 

[kissdadookie]

I love intra workout supplementation purely for its effects on recovery. It is my recovery that either prevents or allows another gym session given that if I am too sore for a muscle group, then I cannot hit it again with as much intensity. So I use intra workout stuff, not for mTOR or AMPK per se, but rather the feeling of accelerated recovery.

Also bare in mind that there are so many different BB routines that finding a study that suits your exact protocol is not likely to happen. There is far too much variation. I think Breezy outlines it best

Technically, you are taking it for the AMPK effects if you are talking about recovery IIRC one of the major things carbs pre and intra is doing is to basically reduce AMPK which means less protein breakdown.

 

[Jiigzz]

Technically, you are taking it for the AMPK effects if you are talking about recovery IIRC one of the major things carbs pre and intra is doing is to basically reduce AMPK which means less protein breakdown.

I notice a vast difference in recovery from adding in intra workout carbs vs. just having a big pre and post meal. Be more too it than just reduced AMPK. But TBH I haven't looked that hard into it.

A good read.

http://www.myosynthesis.com/articles/doms-muscle-soreness

 

[Jiigzz]

"There’s no link between muscle soreness and protein synthesis; no link between muscle soreness and long-term growth; and no link between muscle soreness and muscle fiber damage"

Yu JG, Fürst DO, Thornell LE. The mode of myofibril remodelling in human skeletal muscle affected by DOMS induced by eccentric contractions. Histochem Cell Biol. 2003 May;119(5):383-93.

 

[kissdadookie]

I notice a vast difference in recovery from adding in intra workout carbs vs. just having a big pre and post meal. Be more too it than just reduced AMPK. But TBH I haven't looked that hard into it.

Ditto

I find the preload helpful in my situation though, since I train first thing in the morning Have some nutrients in me when I start training and then keep it flowing during.

 

[kissdadookie]

"There’s no link between muscle soreness and protein synthesis; no link between muscle soreness and long-term growth; and no link between muscle soreness and muscle fiber damage"

Yu JG, Fürst DO, Thornell LE. The mode of myofibril remodelling in human skeletal muscle affected by DOMS induced by eccentric contractions. Histochem Cell Biol. 2003 May;119(5):383-93.

Personally I don't take the intra carbs to prevent DOMS. I take it so that I don't end up getting gassed halfway through my workout

 

[spirall08]

Thanks for all the feedback.

Personally, I eat about 1hr pre workout. I can't workout on an empty stomach.
I then take 2 scoops BCAA's intra
Then 2 scoops of a gainer post (27g protein, 38g carbs).

My workouts are definitely pretty long and very intense. They last about 90 mins of lifting. Give or take. I think I could possibly benefit from carbs intra. Trick would be finding something that mixes well with my BCAA's. Some people mentioned maltodextrin or dextrose, or just simple Gatorade. Guess its all worth a try. Trial and error.

 

[fightnews]

Came across this article:
T Nation | What You Don't Know About Workout Supplementation

TO sum it up:
"During the workout itself, our smart lifter continues to sip a combination of this same special carbohydrate blend and di- and tripeptide formulation"

I've always just sipped on 2 scopps of BCAA's throughout my workout. There aren't any carbs in them at all. Just wanted to get an idea of what you guys sip intra workout?

My goal is to bulk/gain weight. I train 1-2 muscles/day and go anywhere from 75-90 mins.

I wouldn't say you have to but hbcd is a great carb for intra workout, you can go harder with zero cramping. It would go well mixed with bcaa to. You don't need their particular formula although I use it at 1 scoop a workout and love it. It fits in perfectly with my workouts

 

[fightnews]

Does everybody need carbs intra workout? No. Can they be beneficial? It depends. For advanced trainees, using high volume and intensity, I believe they can be very beneficial when combined with BCAAs/EAAs and/or hydrolyzed proteins (with a high % di and tri peptides). The rest of one's peri-workout and overall nutrition will play a big role in their importance/benefit as well (if everything else isn't on point, I wouldn't be worried about intra nutrition). For the average lifter, the benefit might not be as great, and money and focus could most likely be better spent elsewhere. While there aren't any studies done on advanced trainees sipping these specific nutrients and training with a high level of volume and intensity, there are a large amount of high level trainees and competitors reporting exactly the same benefits from their use, mainly greatly improved recovery. With the enhanced recovery, training frequency can be increased, allowing more opportunities for growth. I personally use Amino IV and/or Peptopro with highly branched cyclic dextrins intra workout and the benefits have been very obvious.

This: pretty much everyone who use's the formula or something like it notices the benefits right away.

 

[fightnews]

Strong this. I think it's a little ridiculous that because there's no "studies" on something or "this study says that" that people tend to throw an idea or a protocol out the window.

Try it, if you like it and it helps, then great keel going. If not discontinue it. Not knocking you Nyrin, hope it doesn't come off that way, but I just feel as though too many people rely on a piece of paper from scientists to confirm to them this improves performance for some. Balance is needed between science and anecdotal feedback

The science is like a pendulum that swings back and forth, for almost every positive study you can find a negative study to contradict it, results can be skewed or misread or set up to fail. It's ridiculous to go by studies alone. you'd have to be a fool to do so.

 

[fightnews]

That makes intuitive sense, but there's a mounting amount of reasonable scientific evidence showing benefits to fasted state training that go beyond losing fat.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20837645



http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00421-009-1289-x



I'm not claiming it's a done deal one way or the other, but a lot of trainees (including myself at this point) have actually experienced better progress with less fat gain using a fasted training protocol than a postprandial one. And I think that intraworkout carbohydrate supplementation of any significant degree is going to more closely mimic a postprandial state than a fasted one, even if there are some notable differences.

If you workout fasted shouldn't you at least have some bcaa's before and during to protect muscle?

 

[kissdadookie]

Thanks for all the feedback.

Personally, I eat about 1hr pre workout. I can't workout on an empty stomach.
I then take 2 scoops BCAA's intra
Then 2 scoops of a gainer post (27g protein, 38g carbs).

My workouts are definitely pretty long and very intense. They last about 90 mins of lifting. Give or take. I think I could possibly benefit from carbs intra. Trick would be finding something that mixes well with my BCAA's. Some people mentioned maltodextrin or dextrose, or just simple Gatorade. Guess its all worth a try. Trial and error.

If you don't find Gatorade or dextrose to be weird in your gut during a workout, go for it.

 

[fightnews]

you gotta go with hbcd in my opinion, no cramping

 

[snagencyV2.0]

you gotta go with hbcd in my opinion, no cramping

and whatever did ppl do before this relatively new compound was available? :think:
ppl seem to forget WMS, or Karbolyn, or many other designer carb sources that are perfectly sufficient to use intra-training and have never had much feedback about "disturbing the gut" or "cramping", all because there's a shiny new toy out there on the playground now....







but I suppose I will expound on this thread a bit more
the answer to your question OP is ...... there is no answer, on the generic question you pose
one needs to dig a little further, to see what best suits him/her and what other parameters might affect this answer

breezy comes closest to the mark in his post earlier, but i'll carry it a bit further..
whether or not you need carbs intra will depend on more than a few factors, in addition to what kind of "trainer" you are (ie - newb, intermediate, advanced etc) as well as individual goals (ie - training for general health/fitness, training for performance, training for gains, cutting, bulking, etc etc)

1) do you practice solid & fastidious preWO and postWO nutrition?
if so, then the importance or advantage of any intraWO nutrition is negligible (if not potentially even detrimental to goals such as weight loss/body comp etc)

2) what does the rest of your daily nutritional intake look like?

3) how long are you in the gym? actually, let's be very clear about this: most guys who are in the gym for say 2hrs or so, are in there wayyyy too long and have no business being in there even close to that amount of time....this would expose a deficit in knowledge of how to train/conduct your training session to begin with, as far as rest periods/intensity levels/etc etc
if you do train for a longer period of time, and that training is done correctly and not just intermittent sets every 10min or so (while you stand around talking the rest of the time), then yes intraWO carbs may indeed be suitable for you..

so again, summarization: length of training session, as well as intensity, overall workload, experience factor, peri-nutrition strategy and protocol, daily nutrition factors -- all will play a huge part in determining whether or not this practice is suitable for you



this sport is not a cookie-cutter endeavor - thus, there are very, VERY few generalizations that can be made with regard to protocols and all-encompassing standards of employing them

 

[kissdadookie]

^

/thread

 

[fightnews]

and whatever did ppl do before this relatively new compound was available? :think:
ppl seem to forget WMS, or Karbolyn, or many other designer carb sources that are perfectly sufficient to use intra-training and have never had much feedback about "disturbing the gut" or "cramping", all because there's a shiny new toy out there on the playground now....







but I suppose I will expound on this thread a bit more
the answer to your question OP is ...... there is no answer, on the generic question you pose
one needs to dig a little further, to see what best suits him/her and what other parameters might affect this answer

breezy comes closest to the mark in his post earlier, but i'll carry it a bit further..
whether or not you need carbs intra will depend on more than a few factors, in addition to what kind of "trainer" you are (ie - newb, intermediate, advanced etc) as well as individual goals (ie - training for general health/fitness, training for performance, training for gains, cutting, bulking, etc etc)

1) do you practice solid & fastidious preWO and postWO nutrition?
if so, then the importance or advantage of any intraWO nutrition is negligible (if not potentially even detrimental to goals such as weight loss/body comp etc)

2) what does the rest of your daily nutritional intake look like?

3) how long are you in the gym? actually, let's be very clear about this: most guys who are in the gym for say 2hrs or so, are in there wayyyy too long and have no business being in there even close to that amount of time....this would expose a deficit in knowledge of how to train/conduct your training session to begin with, as far as rest periods/intensity levels/etc etc
if you do train for a longer period of time, and that training is done correctly and not just intermittent sets every 10min or so (while you stand around talking the rest of the time), then yes intraWO carbs may indeed be suitable for you..

so again, summarization: length of training session, as well as intensity, overall workload, experience factor, peri-nutrition strategy and protocol, daily nutrition factors -- all will play a huge part in determining whether or not this practice is suitable for you



this sport is not a cookie-cutter endeavor - thus, there are very, VERY few generalizations that can be made with regard to protocols and all-encompassing standards of employing them

TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION I USED TO JUST DRINK LESS AND DEAL WITH THE CRAMPING

 

[fightnews]

and whatever did ppl do before this relatively new compound was available? :think:
ppl seem to forget WMS, or Karbolyn, or many other designer carb sources that are perfectly sufficient to use intra-training and have never had much feedback about "disturbing the gut" or "cramping", all because there's a shiny new toy out there on the playground now....







but I suppose I will expound on this thread a bit more
the answer to your question OP is ...... there is no answer, on the generic question you pose
one needs to dig a little further, to see what best suits him/her and what other parameters might affect this answer

breezy comes closest to the mark in his post earlier, but i'll carry it a bit further..
whether or not you need carbs intra will depend on more than a few factors, in addition to what kind of "trainer" you are (ie - newb, intermediate, advanced etc) as well as individual goals (ie - training for general health/fitness, training for performance, training for gains, cutting, bulking, etc etc)

1) do you practice solid & fastidious preWO and postWO nutrition?
if so, then the importance or advantage of any intraWO nutrition is negligible (if not potentially even detrimental to goals such as weight loss/body comp etc)

2) what does the rest of your daily nutritional intake look like?

[/B]3) how long are you in the gym? actually, let's be very clear about this: most guys who are in the gym for say 2hrs or so, are in there wayyyy too long and have no business being in there even close to that amount of time....this would expose a deficit in knowledge of how to train/conduct your training session to begin with, as far as rest periods/intensity levels/etc etc
if you do train for a longer period of time, and that training is done correctly and not just intermittent sets every 10min or so (while you stand around talking the rest of the time), then yes intraWO carbs may indeed be suitable for you..

so again, summarization: length of training session, as well as intensity, overall workload, experience factor, peri-nutrition strategy and protocol, daily nutrition factors -- all will play a huge part in determining whether or not this practice is suitable for you



this sport is not a cookie-cutter endeavor - thus, there are very, VERY few generalizations that can be made with regard to protocols and all-encompassing standards of employing them

Lo fuking L, Tell that to any world class or olympic athlete and watch them laugh at you, ive stayed at the lake placid olympic training center, I've been in professional training camps, ive seen how true athletes train. if you think 2 measly hours is too much training have fun being mediocre at everything in life.

 

[kissdadookie]

You're the one that we should be LOLing at. So just because you've been to Lake Placid and been in professional training camps, we mere mortals should all train two hours plus or we will remain mediocre? You're theory is flawed. We can punch holes through this all day long. Let's see:

1) We ARE mediocre. If we weren't, we would be at these said Olympic and professional training camps you've been too. We'd be competing at the Olympic and professional level. So just because a superhuman athlete trains two hours doesn't mean I should. Case in point, Dean Karnazes. You've probably never heard of him, but you can google him. He ran 50 marathons in 50 straight days. Scientists and doctors were amazed to learn that his body was able to learn to repair faster after each marathon. The kicker, he's like one of the only people in the world that has the genetic capability to do this. So why would anyone attempt to train and race like him when they clearly don't have that genetic potential.

2) World class Olympic/professional athletes live in a completely different world. Coaches, personal chefs or dining halls, free supplements, and sometimes PEDs too. Also, they have schedules that include rest and naps. They don't slave away for THE MAN from 9-5. They don't have to mow lawns and fix pipes that burst in the middle of the night. So they can in fact afford to train for two hours plus because they can afford to rest a lot too. I once interviewed Sarah Haskins, US Olympic Triathlete, for a magazine article. She slept 8 hours a night, trained in the morning, ate breakfast, took it easy for an hours, trained again, ate, took a nap, trained again, ate, and then went to bed. Let me get to the point, her whole day revolved around training, eating and resting. How many people on here can afford to do that? Probably not as many as you think. I know my boss would kill me if I left for lunch to train, came back to my desk and ate lunch and then checked out for an hour nap. Not gonna happen.

So snagency is right. And you are wrong. We mere mortals can't expect or attempt to train like world class athletes. If we do, we will remain mediocre at best.

To be fair though, 2 hours isn't that far fetched for mere mortals. Like 2 hours of real training. It's basically doing two a days in one session. I'm pretty sure there's many mere mortals that are doing two a days. Of course, people have lives that does not revolve around just training so concessions are/will be made.

 

[kissdadookie]

I'm definitely not saying it's far fetched, that nobody should train that long, etc. I'm just saying that it's unfair to claim that if you don't train two hours, you'll be mediocre.

I agree. Dorian said many a times that he can't train longer or more frequently than he does due to the intensity he uses and boy, he uses some serious intensity with all those pause beyond failure reps.

 

[fightnews]

You're the one that we should be LOLing at. So just because you've been to Lake Placid and been in professional training camps, we mere mortals should all train two hours plus or we will remain mediocre? You're theory is flawed. We can punch holes through this all day long. Let's see: 1) We ARE mediocre. If we weren't, we would be at these said Olympic and professional training camps you've been too. We'd be competing at the Olympic and professional level. So just because a superhuman athlete trains two hours doesn't mean I should. Case in point, Dean Karnazes. You've probably never heard of him, but you can google him. He ran 50 marathons in 50 straight days. Scientists and doctors were amazed to learn that his body was able to learn to repair faster after each marathon. The kicker, he's like one of the only people in the world that has the genetic capability to do this. So why would anyone attempt to train and race like him when they clearly don't have that genetic potential. 2) World class Olympic/professional athletes live in a completely different world. Coaches, personal chefs or dining halls, free supplements, and sometimes PEDs too. Also, they have schedules that include rest and naps. They don't slave away for THE MAN from 9-5. They don't have to mow lawns and fix pipes that burst in the middle of the night. So they can in fact afford to train for two hours plus because they can afford to rest a lot too. I once interviewed Sarah Haskins, US Olympic Triathlete, for a magazine article. She slept 8 hours a night, trained in the morning, ate breakfast, took it easy for an hour, trained again, ate, took a nap, trained again, ate, and then went to bed. Let me get to the point, her whole day revolved around training, eating and resting. How many people on here can afford to do that? Probably not as many as you think. I know my boss would kill me if I left for lunch to train, came back to my desk and ate lunch and then checked out for an hour nap. Not gonna happen. So snagency is right. And you are wrong. We mere mortals can't expect or attempt to train like world class athletes. If we do, we will remain mediocre at best.

Did not read past theresince I never said that. Nice imagination and reading comprehension skills. Guy I originally responded to said "most guys who are in the gym for say 2hrs or so, are in there wayyyy too long and have no business being in there even close to that amount of time.." That's just not true and a huge assumption. Anyway good day to you and LOL. Next time try paragraphs.

 

[fightnews]

To be fair though, 2 hours isn't that far fetched for mere mortals. Like 2 hours of real training. It's basically doing two a days in one session. I'm pretty sure there's many mere mortals that are doing two a days. Of course, people have lives that does not revolve around just training so concessions are/will be made.

It's definitely not to long especially if you are doing cardio or skill training and your intra workout nutrition is on point. Some people just assume nobody knows anything but them, everyone's a beginner and idiot, and nobody should train above the level they do. Oh well what are you going to do. I know you've done some 2 hr sessions right dook?

 

[fightnews]

I'm definitely not saying it's far fetched, that nobody should train that long, etc. I'm just saying that it's unfair to claim that if you don't train two hours, you'll be mediocre.

I agree thats why I never claimed that, try quoting me instead of making assumptions

 

[kissdadookie]

It's definitely not to long especially if you are doing cardio or skill training and your intra workout nutrition is on point. Some people just assume nobody knows anything but them, everyone's a beginner and idiot, and nobody should train above the level they do. Oh well what are you going to do. I know you've done some 2 hr sessions right dook?

I average 2 hours. No cardio or conditioning. I leave that to a separate session where I finish with forearms and grip accessories work. Just have to bang them out. I would like to split them into 2 a days but scheduling does not allow for this, so I just have to wake up and get to the gym shortly after they open every morning and get the whole thing out of the way first thing.

Needless to say, I rely on peri-workout nutrition because doing these morning sessions, I don't have the time or stomach for much solid food.

 

[fightnews]

"Lo fuking L, Tell that to any world class or olympic athlete and watch them laugh at you, ive stayed at the lake placid olympic training center, I've been in professional training camps, ive seen how true athletes train. if you think 2 measly hours is too much training have fun being mediocre at everything in life."

The proof is in the pudding, kid. You simply said "if you think 2 measly hours is too much training have fun being mediocre at everything in life."

So how am I misquoting you on? Maybe you should learn to explain yourself better? And paragraphs? I'm sorry... I didn't know someone elected you the grammar and AP Style police on AM?

And I love your witty humor: "assumptions." I'll have to use that sometime, or are you, our fearless hall monitor, going to call me out for other senseless online forum crimes, like using your terminology without consent.

See the real problem is, you get so sensitive when people dispute your claims. You're close-minded, and that means you'll always be mediocre because you'll never open your mind to new ideas. People can't argue with you because when they do, you lash out and act like a child. That's ok tho, I guess we all need someone to make fun of.

Carry on, and good luck being mediocre at life.

you're delusional