Your Best Sleep Aid

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    Quote Originally Posted by chedapalooza View Post
    I just came across this and ordered a bottle for the hell of it.. By BPI- nite burn it's called



    Attachment 90312
    Man I wish I had $$ to literally flush down the toilet lol

    To the above Q, no issue taking l-dopa, 5-htp, and gaba together, although I'd use low doses of each for sleep purposes
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Man I wish I had $$ to literally flush down the toilet lol

    To the above Q, no issue taking l-dopa, 5-htp, and gaba together, although I'd use low doses of each for sleep purposes
    Lol...

    To OP I have used 3Z (was alright), Poseidon Night Time (not this new Abyss thing I haven't tried it yet, but it was very good at putting me to sleep although I usually drank to much water with it and had to piss like 3 times a night), ZMA (didn't do anything really), Melatonin (it seemed to work until it didn't), Lights Out (it has been really good so far two months into using it, definitely helps me go to sleep faster, and stay asleep longer.)
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post

    Man I wish I had $$ to literally flush down the toilet lol

    To the above Q, no issue taking l-dopa, 5-htp, and gaba together, although I'd use low doses of each for sleep purposes
    100-150mg 5-htp
    1,5 g gaba
    300mg mucuna p. 98%

    That was my idea
    •   
       

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post

    Man I wish I had $$ to literally flush down the toilet lol

    To the above Q, no issue taking l-dopa, 5-htp, and gaba together, although I'd use low doses of each for sleep purposes
    I actually cancelled the order an hour after placing it pal
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    Quote Originally Posted by chedapalooza View Post
    I actually cancelled the order an hour after placing it pal
    Boom. Logic prevails!
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post

    Boom. Logic prevails!
    I picked up some Heroin instead.. Very effective
    "no failure is final, nor is any success"
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    Quote Originally Posted by uubiduu View Post

    100-150mg 5-htp
    1,5 g gaba
    300mg mucuna p. 98%

    That was my idea
    Tried this combo yesterday before going to sleep and it was superb!
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    Quote Originally Posted by uubiduu View Post
    100-150mg 5-htp
    1,5 g gaba
    300mg mucuna p. 98%

    That was my idea
    Why 1.5g GABA when most supplements have around 200mg?

    Now this supplements you get in a stack of Abyss and Lights Out and I've seen few replies by guys trying both together and they reported good sleep.

    I also have one supplement containing Tongkat Ali and 1mg of melatonin - damn so many good options to stack and test.

    Hmm sleep & libido boosting stack.
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    1.5g of GABA is a very common dosage. Most dose it between 1 and 3 g. 200mg is not enough. But 1g Melatonin is definetely too much i think you meant 1 mg? The Abyss supp isnt available in europe yet but im interested in testing it. Lights Out seems to be overpriced IMHO. Took the above combo the second night and i confirm that i notice a big difference, even comnpared to 3-5mg melatonin before bedtime.
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    Quote Originally Posted by uubiduu View Post
    1.5g of GABA is a very common dosage. Most dose it between 1 and 3 g. 200mg is not enough. But 1g Melatonin is definetely too much i think you meant 1 mg? The Abyss supp isnt available in europe yet but im interested in testing it. Lights Out seems to be overpriced IMHO. Took the above combo the second night and i confirm that i notice a big difference, even comnpared to 3-5mg melatonin before bedtime.
    Yeah, I meant 1mg of melatonin (edited my above post now).

    This combo of Abyss and Lights Out does temp me especially since nice amount of l-dopa in Lights Out that should work wonders on good sleep, increase in GH and of course libido boost.

    If I can get sleep & libido boost with OTC supplements that would last for at least 4 weeks then that would make me very pleased.

    Keep posting your feedback with this stack how it works for you on your sleep and libido.

    Abyss is now available since last week by UK seller that has exclusive rights to sell it in EU so I should get my test bottle by Friday.
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    My abyss arrived today so I can confirm it is currently in stock in the UK
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wilsy7 View Post
    My abyss arrived today so I can confirm it is currently in stock in the UK
    You will soon also confirm that the stuff works amazingly well
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    Quote Originally Posted by kissdadookie View Post
    You will soon also confirm that the stuff works amazingly well
    Tonight will tell lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wilsy7 View Post
    Tonight will tell lol
    Well, I wouldn't say that it works THAT quickly, but the effects kicked in for me in the first week and only increased with further use
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    Melatonin + powerfull has been a nice combo for me
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    Quote Originally Posted by kissdadookie View Post
    Well, I wouldn't say that it works THAT quickly, but the effects kicked in for me in the first week and only increased with further use
    Such a let down lol
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    Melatonin is the cheapest and most effective aid out there, IMO.

    Costs about $0.03 - $0.04 a night and works just as good as anything out there. Paying for marketed "sleep supplements" is a huge waste of money... Many of which just have melatonin in them anyway.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 6andaHalf View Post
    Melatonin is the cheapest and most effective aid out there, IMO.

    Costs about $0.03 - $0.04 a night and works just as good as anything out there. Paying for marketed "sleep supplements" is a huge waste of money... Many of which just have melatonin in them anyway.
    No it doesn't, I've used melatonin for awhile before, it's probably the least effective for me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kissdadookie View Post

    No it doesn't, I've used melatonin for awhile before, it's probably the least effective for me.
    No it doesn't what? Cost 4 cents a serving?

    Or did you mean 'no it isn't'?

    Its not really a debate. Your brain uses it for sleep already. It may just not work as well for you as a supplement... but you use it every night.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 6andaHalf View Post
    No it doesn't what? Cost 4 cents a serving?

    Or did you mean 'no it isn't'?

    Its not really a debate. Your brain uses it for sleep already. It may just not work as well for you as a supplement... but you use it every night.
    Actually, it is up for debate. You do realize that the melatonin our brain releases tends to be released in more steady streams right? The melatonin you take orally has a much lesser effect. Melatonin is also not a sleep inducer, it's actually more of a sleep cycle regulator, so if your issue is FALLING TO SLEEP, it's not going to do much (and like I've said earlier, has not done much for me).

    So for both a sleep REGULATOR and a sleep INDUCER, Abyss Unparalleled is far superior to melatonin. Heck, getting in some l-dopa + GABA is going to be superior for most people, along with some 5-HTP. Basically, if you have no real issues with FALLING to sleep in the first place, melatonin can be helpful getting you a better sleep, but it's not great for putting you to sleep.

    Yeah, it could regulate your sleep cycle to some extent but again, the issue for most people is that they also need something to help have them go to sleep. If you're only argument is that melatonin is cheap, I can't argue, but your original post was implying that melatonin is just as good as sleep aid supplements which is just false.
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    I heard this is good for sleep problems.


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    Quote Originally Posted by iparatroop View Post
    I heard this is good for sleep problems.


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    Quote Originally Posted by kissdadookie View Post

    Actually, it is up for debate. You do realize that the melatonin our brain releases tends to be released in more steady streams right? The melatonin you take orally has a much lesser effect. Melatonin is also not a sleep inducer, it's actually more of a sleep cycle regulator, so if your issue is FALLING TO SLEEP, it's not going to do much (and like I've said earlier, has not done much for me).

    So for both a sleep REGULATOR and a sleep INDUCER, Abyss Unparalleled is far superior to melatonin. Heck, getting in some l-dopa + GABA is going to be superior for most people, along with some 5-HTP. Basically, if you have no real issues with FALLING to sleep in the first place, melatonin can be helpful getting you a better sleep, but it's not great for putting you to sleep.

    Yeah, it could regulate your sleep cycle to some extent but again, the issue for most people is that they also need something to help have them go to sleep. If you're only argument is that melatonin is cheap, I can't argue, but your original post was implying that melatonin is just as good as sleep aid supplements which is just false.

    Yes and no... its used to fall asleep AND stay asleep. Although your brain releases it to stay asleep mostly. We even produce more in the winter months because of the shorter days.

    It seems to have a window that if I don't catch I'll have to take more. Sometimes I'll wake up if I don't take enough but it hits most people hard and fast. Its like a sleep bomb for me. I can literally feel it come over me and then just shut my eyes.

    That's why your brain releases it in stead streams. To stay asleep... So, when you take it all at once it also puts you to sleep, fast.

    Everyone is different. How much did you take? I take up to 4-6 mg sometimes and I'm asleep in minutes. Same goes for many I've had this convo with. I've seen people on here who use 10-15mg on cycle to knock themselves out.
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    I've used upwards of 50mg. I slowly built a tolerance(in terms of not being groggy in the morning), however it always remained effective. Functionally, I agree that it both induces and maintains sleep, as well as regulates the overall sleep cycle. Massively oversimplified of course, but it's a hormone with wide ranging importance that's being researched for antioxidant/anticancer/antiinflammatory properties.

    After my sleep cycle was completely derailed from doing a few years' worth of owl surveys (heavy exertion all night long) I started using melatonin in higher and higher doses and sometimes stacked it with 12 mg of benadryl. That combo righted my sleep cycle that had been wrecked for years. Beats drinking one's self to sleep.
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    Slin Sane and Recompadrol give me some pretty deep sleep.
    Best GH boost you can get IMO.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FL3X MAGNUM View Post
    Slin Sane and Recompadrol give me some pretty deep sleep.
    Best GH boost you can get IMO.
    Recompadrol made me sick as ****! thought I was gonna die lol
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    Had first dose of abyss last night, had a great nights sleep. Still to early to say until it becomes a regular thing, but had a great nights sleep for sure. Things are looking good
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    Quote Originally Posted by 6andaHalf View Post
    I take up to 4-6 mg sometimes and I'm asleep in minutes.
    See, the problem with this is that oral melatonin takes about 1 hour to reach peak plasma concentrations. If you're asleep within minutes, you have placeboed yourself into thinking "help is on the way, I will sleep great tonight!"
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    Quote Originally Posted by 6andaHalf View Post
    Yes and no... its used to fall asleep AND stay asleep. Although your brain releases it to stay asleep mostly. We even produce more in the winter months because of the shorter days.

    It seems to have a window that if I don't catch I'll have to take more. Sometimes I'll wake up if I don't take enough but it hits most people hard and fast. Its like a sleep bomb for me. I can literally feel it come over me and then just shut my eyes.

    That's why your brain releases it in stead streams. To stay asleep... So, when you take it all at once it also puts you to sleep, fast.

    Everyone is different. How much did you take? I take up to 4-6 mg sometimes and I'm asleep in minutes. Same goes for many I've had this convo with. I've seen people on here who use 10-15mg on cycle to knock themselves out.
    I stayed within 1 mg. Anything over and it would have side effects on me but overall felt less effective. I don't really have trouble staying asleep, my issue comes from falling to sleep in the first place as well as falling asleep again if I woke up in the middle of the night to go to the rest room or what not.

    If you look at the research on melatonin though, you will see why it's not very effective at putting one to sleep. As you said, there is a window. The reason for this is that it works differently when orally administered compared to what you body naturally produces. Orally, you get a burst of it but it doesn't act the same as what you body produces naturally. When produced naturally, it has an entire body calming effect. When taken orally, it tends to not have that entire body calming effect. It's different for everybody but at the end of the day, it's ultimately useful for helping you get your biological sleep clock back on track but not very good at inducing sleep. If you need to take 4-6 mg's of the stuff and like you have mentioned, 10-15 mg's for some people, that should have indicated to you that it's inexpensive but not very effective. You're basically going multiple times over what is supposed to be an optimal dose (optimal dose should really be a gram or less, I've tried mega dosing it like I've mentioned, ended up having more sides).
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    See, the problem with this is that oral melatonin takes about 1 hour to reach peak plasma concentrations. If you're asleep within minutes, you have placeboed yourself into thinking "help is on the way, I will sleep great tonight!"
    Although I respect your knowledge and experience, an hour is a super general statement to say when it "should" put someone to sleep. You can't say its the same for every person, every night. The fact that your brain produces different amounts to go along with what ever you take on top that should tell us that it takes a different amount of time depending on that specific night. Plus, I may be fast asleep from it before "peak plasma concentrations". I've been taking it on and off almost every night for 4 years, I know the exact feeling it puts off and I can feel it shutting me off and knocking me out. No placebo about it, most of the time. Every once and while, yes, I can probably drift off before it reaches levels that have previously put me to sleep but that's irrelevant.

    There is no exact "set time". I'll argue to the death that it affects me FAR before an hour. We are only human, Coop. Everyone is different. 30 min is not a stretch in any way to induce sleep from melatonin. My girlfriend takes it religiously too because of me and same goes for her... Around 30 min= gniiiiiight. It affects her even more than me. I mean... she's out!
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    Quote Originally Posted by kissdadookie View Post
    I stayed within 1 mg. Anything over and it would have side effects on me but overall felt less effective. I don't really have trouble staying asleep, my issue comes from falling to sleep in the first place as well as falling asleep again if I woke up in the middle of the night to go to the rest room or what not.

    If you look at the research on melatonin though, you will see why it's not very effective at putting one to sleep. As you said, there is a window. The reason for this is that it works differently when orally administered compared to what you body naturally produces. Orally, you get a burst of it but it doesn't act the same as what you body produces naturally. When produced naturally, it has an entire body calming effect. When taken orally, it tends to not have that entire body calming effect. It's different for everybody but at the end of the day, it's ultimately useful for helping you get your biological sleep clock back on track but not very good at inducing sleep. If you need to take 4-6 mg's of the stuff and like you have mentioned, 10-15 mg's for some people, that should have indicated to you that it's inexpensive but not very effective. You're basically going multiple times over what is supposed to be an optimal dose (optimal dose should really be a gram or less, I've tried mega dosing it like I've mentioned, ended up having more sides).

    They come in 3mg and 5mg pills OTC when I buy them. Taking 1mg wouldn't do much for me.

    Hey, I'm just trying to help and based on the hundred times I've seen this thread, many users feel the same way as me. Sorry it doesnt work for you but its super cheap and effective for the people who swear by it. So, if you're reading this and haven't thought about using it rather than paying 20x more for a fancy sleep aid then you owe yourself to try it. It will cost more in gas money to get to the store.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 6andaHalf View Post
    They come in 3mg and 5mg pills OTC when I buy them. Taking 1mg wouldn't do much for me.

    Hey, I'm just trying to help and based on the hundred times I've seen this thread, many users feel the same way as me. Sorry it doesnt work for you but its super cheap and effective for the people who swear by it. So, if you're reading this and haven't thought about using it rather than paying 20x more for a fancy sleep aid then you owe yourself to try it. It will cost more in gas money to get to the store.
    I understand that they come in higher dosages That's a problem as well, due to how the optimal dose isn't actually very effective at putting one to sleep, they basically just increased the dosages on the ones you can buy (it won't really hurt you, but it's not that great) because they know that most people just need help falling asleep

    Sleep aids are also pretty inexpensive and are very effective. There's a LOT of things you can spend your $20-$30 on which would be ineffective and useless for the most part. There is however a good number of excellent sleep aids which are very effective. Abyss Unparalleled is probably the best you can get and it's only $20-$30 a bottle, so very inexpensive as well. Plus something like Abyss Unparalleled has extra benefits beyond just helping one with sleep.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kissdadookie View Post

    I understand that they come in higher dosages That's a problem as well, due to how the optimal dose isn't actually very effective at putting one to sleep, they basically just increased the dosages on the ones you can buy (it won't really hurt you, but it's not that great) because they know that most people just need help falling asleep

    Sleep aids are also pretty inexpensive and are very effective. There's a LOT of things you can spend your $20-$30 on which would be ineffective and useless for the most part. There is however a good number of excellent sleep aids which are very effective. Abyss Unparalleled is probably the best you can get and it's only $20-$30 a bottle, so very inexpensive as well. Plus something like Abyss Unparalleled has extra benefits beyond just helping one with sleep.
    Correction: Not effective to putting YOU to sleep.

    Again, that's a bummer and I'm sorry, but you just can't vouch for its effectiveness on anyone but yourself, man.

    I'll stick to $3 a bottle because it works for me and then spend the other $27 on steak and potatoes. Only $20-30 a bottle (30 servings) to get a "good night's sleep with added benefits"... Good lawd. Supps are fun, if they weren't people wouldn't waste billions... yea billions... every year. I'm in the wrong business!
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    Quote Originally Posted by 6andaHalf View Post
    Correction: Not effective to putting YOU to sleep.

    Again, that's a bummer and I'm sorry, but you just can't vouch for its effectiveness on anyone but yourself, man.

    I'll stick to $3 a bottle because it works for me and then spend the other $27 on steak and potatoes. Only $20-30 a bottle to go to sleep... Good lawd
    The fact that you have 1) claimed melatonin is just as good as other sleep aid supplements and 2) that you are taking high doses of it shows the following:

    1) Not very effective since you are going WAY over what should have been an optimal dose @ 1 gram or less.
    2) You have not even bothered to compare and contrast melatonin to other sleep aid supplements.

    Again, it's obvious that you are just trying to penny pinch at this point rather than being objective with what really does work well and what doesn't work well. Then there's the whole issue of you not actually understanding how melatonin works, how it works, what it actually does, and the HUGE difference between orally administered melatonin vs. the melatonin your body produces, which is an entirely other huge can of worms which you seem to be completely negligent of.

    Hey, you want to penny pinch and just merrily assume that melatonin is just as good or comes anywhere close to good sleep aid supplements, that's your prerogative, just don't come out claiming it as if this was fact. Penny pinching is an entirely different issue than what is effective and what is not.

    As for me vouching for things, AT MINIMUM I've used what I have talked about/mentioned thus AT BARE MINIMUM I have a basis for comparison that goes far beyond just looking at cost. You on the other hand, I highly doubt you can really substantiate your claims here.

    Lastly, there's a reason why medically, melatonin has only really been recommended to treat circadian rhythm disorders but not really recommended all that much as an actual sleep aid apart from being recommended by folks like yourself whom are taking a ton of it (way over what should have been an optimal dose) just to get an effect from it. When you are taking something at 3-4 times the optimal dose, what you are taking obviously isn't all that great and useful. Then there's that other poster in this thread that has said he took 50 mg's. Does common sense here not surface? For goodness sakes, PRESCRIPTION time release melatonin is like 2 mg's. Does this not tell you ANYTHING?
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    Quote Originally Posted by kissdadookie View Post
    The fact that you have 1) claimed melatonin is just as good as other sleep aid supplements and 2) that you are taking high doses of it shows the following:

    1) Not very effective since you are going WAY over what should have been an optimal dose @ 1 gram or less.
    2) You have not even bothered to compare and contrast melatonin to other sleep aid supplements.

    Again, it's obvious that you are just trying to penny pinch at this point rather than being objective with what really does work well and what doesn't work well. Then there's the whole issue of you not actually understanding how melatonin works, how it works, what it actually does, and the HUGE difference between orally administered melatonin vs. the melatonin your body produces, which is an entirely other huge can of worms which you seem to be completely negligent of.

    Hey, you want to penny pinch and just merrily assume that melatonin is just as good or comes anywhere close to good sleep aid supplements, that's your prerogative, just don't come out claiming it as if this was fact. Penny pinching is an entirely different issue than what is effective and what is not.

    As for me vouching for things, AT MINIMUM I've used what I have talked about/mentioned thus AT BARE MINIMUM I have a basis for comparison that goes far beyond just looking at cost. You on the other hand, I highly doubt you can really substantiate your claims here.

    Lastly, there's a reason why medically, melatonin has only really been recommended to treat circadian rhythm disorders but not really used all that much as an actual sleep aid.
    Well, I guess you're smarter than me, dude. Point made.

    then again, I found something that works for me for pennies on the dollar. I don't mean to brag when I say penny pinching is not something I have to do, not by a long shot.

    At the end of the day, I'm not lining the pockets of supp industry people yet I'm still killing it every day at the same level as if I were throwing money at all kinds of "premium supps" . I have probably spent over $20-30k on supps in my life. There comes a point where you have to ask yourself.. will a $30 bottle of sleeping pills make or break ANY goal of mine. For me its a reverberating no. Does melatonin work well for me? Yes, and many people I know. Have there been any negatives? No, its been 4 years like clockwork and I sleep fine when I'm without it, still. That's enough for me not to give someone $360 a year.

    Why are you so hellbent on proving an opinion wrong? I'm not you. And you aren't a doctor... shockingly.

    I have no intrest to sway you, friend. Do what works best for you and I wish you good luck. That's why my very first post ended in "IMO".
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    Quote Originally Posted by 6andaHalf View Post
    Well, I guess you're smarter than me, dude. Point made.

    then again, I found something that works for me for pennies on the dollar. I don't mean to brag when I say penny pinching is not something I have to do, not by a long shot.

    At the end of the day, I'm not lining the pockets of supp industry people yet I'm still killing it every day at the same level as if I were throwing money at all kinds of "premium supps" . I have probably spent over $20-30k on supps in my life. There comes a point where you have to ask yourself.. will a $30 bottle of sleeping pills make or break ANY goal of mine. For me its a reverberating no. Does melatonin work well for me? Yes, and many people I know. Have there been any negatives? No, its been 4 years like clockwork and I sleep fine without it still. That's enough for me not to give someone $360 a year. Why are you so hellbent on proving an opinion wrong? I'm not you. And you aren't a doctor... shockingly.

    I have no intrest to sway you, friend. Do what works best for you and I wish you good luck. That's why my very first post ended in "IMO".
    Look at the bold. If that is the case, why even bother with melatonin? Sleep aids as the name would imply, helps people that have trouble going to and staying asleep. If you only had some sleep cycle issues, then yes, melatonin is useful to get your cycle back in check. After it's in check, you don't need it anymore. It's beyond reason why you would still be taking the stuff for 4 years "like clockwork."
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    Quote Originally Posted by kissdadookie View Post

    Look at the bold. If that is the case, why even bother with melatonin? Sleep aids as the name would imply, helps people that have trouble going to and staying asleep. If you only had some sleep cycle issues, then yes, melatonin is useful to get your cycle back in check. After it's in check, you don't need it anymore. It's beyond reason why you would still be taking the stuff for 4 years "like clockwork."
    I have trouble falling asleep sometimes. Melatonin puts me to sleep. It has for years b ut I'm not dependent, hence me being able to go without if I absolutely have to. I just wont fall asleep as well or stay asleep as well. That should be the end of my point.

    Please just accept that it helps me. You're starting to sound like you just disapprove of what works for my own body.

    Continue to flame all you want but what are you accomplishing? There are people like me all over the web who preach the same thing. Yes, we may all be dumber than you, doctor, but we all found melatonin works for us to fall sleep faster and stay asleep. And yes... its cheap.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 6andaHalf View Post
    I have trouble falling asleep sometimes. Melatonin puts me to sleep. It has for years. That should be the end of my point.

    Please just accept that it helps me. You're starting to sound like you just disapprove of what works for my own body.

    Continue to flame all you want but what are you accomplishing? There are people like me all over the web who preach the same thing. Yes, we may all be dumber than you, doctor, but we all found melatonin works for us to fall sleep faster and stay asleep. And yes... its cheap.
    Flame? Not flaming at all, and not saying that melatonin is useless either. Was just pointing out that your entire basis of argument/discussion was completely off course. You essentially came in with a post that had the following message: melatonin > than sleep aid supplements and it's cheaper.

    I can wholeheartedly agree that it's cheap as heck but one can not really claim it to be equally or better than a lot of the quality sleep aids currently available. As for you stating "but we all found melatonin works for us to fall sleep faster and stay asleep," NOW who's claiming things for the general population? LoL.
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    Oh no, you misunderstood. These are actual posts that I have read over the years. Much like Bioman quoted my post today. Not assumptions. Testimonies.

    You're right that there plenty of sleep aids out there, some more geared towards making people fall asleep faster. Find whatever works for you, tho. If its cheap and you don't have to pay for a supp company's millions $$$ in marketing... more power to you. They wouldn't be $20-$30 a bottle unless you were paying for corporate marketing and an even bigger profit margin.

    I really haven't had a single disagreement to your arguments other than that melatonin works to make many people fall asleep faster and stay asleep.

    You are a well versed guy and I agree with all of your research, I really do. I know its mostly used for jet lag and things of a circadian nature but it also can be used for falling asleep. I say this... because I'm proof.

    These threads are great for stress relief haha... I feel like a million bucks after a good debate.
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