help me find an old thread please

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  1. Unbreakable
    David Dunn's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Celorza View Post
    I got a bit carried away...Gregg and I are friendly on PMs...just forgot to take this to PMs and got comfortable discussing it with him here...
    No. You GET carried away...often. Relax. It, any of it, is not that important, including you or me.
    Any time I read any of your posts it screams an angry raging young man. Don't get all Napolian complex on us...he pulled his bone apart
    Life is a terminal condition.

    She thinks that happiness is a mat that sits on her doorway.


  2. Quote Originally Posted by David Dunn
    No. You GET carried away...often. Relax. It, any of it, is not that important, including you or me.
    Any time I read any of your posts it screams an angry raging young man. Don't get all Napolian complex on us...he pulled his bone apart
    Woah woah. No need for more posts we hijacked this guys thread enough lol.


    Ps: celorza im the man =p
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by David Dunn View Post
    No. You GET carried away...often. Relax. It, any of it, is not that important, including you or me.
    Any time I read any of your posts it screams an angry raging young man. Don't get all Napolian complex on us...he pulled his bone apart
    Have I ever told yah how scared I am of you? Even more after the last incident we had hehe...(serious, I am not mocking you) I damn near had a heart attack when I saw you posted here...
    >SNS-Glycophase<
    Serious Nutrition Solutions Rep

  4. Quote Originally Posted by David Dunn View Post
    Yeah. Celorza tends to hijack entire threads make it a forum for him to JAM his opinion down peoples' throat!

    Clomid, Nolvadex, and Testosterone Stimulation
    he fails to mention toxicity effects and the point he makes on their ability to be an AI is a tad misleading. One wants to restore normal endocrine function, not completely shut down estrogen which nolva has this potential. When taking these into account clomid is clearly the superior SERM for HPTA recovery IMO.
    PESCIENCE.COM

    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates
  5. Unbreakable
    David Dunn's Avatar

    The article addresses testosterone production.
    Is there data to support your claim regarding toxicity and does it consider the fact that in contrast to nolva the doses of clomid is often 5x that of nolva?
    Life is a terminal condition.

    She thinks that happiness is a mat that sits on her doorway.
    •   
       

  6. Unbreakable
    David Dunn's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Celorza View Post
    Have I ever told yah how scared I am of you? Even more after the last incident we had hehe...(serious, I am not mocking you) I damn near had a heart attack when I saw you posted here...
    Relax...
    Life is a terminal condition.

    She thinks that happiness is a mat that sits on her doorway.

  7. Quote Originally Posted by David Dunn View Post
    The article addresses testosterone production.
    Is there data to support your claim regarding toxicity and does it consider the fact that in contrast to nolva the doses of clomid is often 5x that of nolva?
    Here's where I bow out ! I can say I have only Forum Log research upon toxicity of them, with some bloods. Sadly my claim was a bit spitballed as we both know Clomid poses Ocular toxicity and Nolva doesn't...Celly has still much to learn it seems
    >SNS-Glycophase<
    Serious Nutrition Solutions Rep

  8. Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    he fails to mention toxicity effects and the point he makes on their ability to be an AI is a tad misleading. One wants to restore normal endocrine function, not completely shut down estrogen which nolva has this potential. When taking these into account clomid is clearly the superior SERM for HPTA recovery IMO.
    This point I did address to Greg on PMs , the point of the serm is help restore Homeostasis...in that sense to bring back endogenous testosterone production. For Estrogen control AIs are kept during wet cycles and on their PCTs, and reglardles the cycle there is an AI for that intent on PCT, hence I like the article I brought up for 25mg Clomid effective for restarting endogenous T production...But David Dunn does bring up a point...my toxicity claim was not well founded...
    >SNS-Glycophase<
    Serious Nutrition Solutions Rep

  9. Quote Originally Posted by David Dunn View Post
    The article addresses testosterone production.
    Is there data to support your claim regarding toxicity and does it consider the fact that in contrast to nolva the doses of clomid is often 5x that of nolva?
    On toxicity - http://idosi.org/mejsr/mejsr9(1)11/18.pdf

    Despite treating with silymarin nolva appears to still be quite hepatoxic

    As for effects on estrogen, yes nolva has the potential to be an aromatase inhibitor (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21390495) but this is not necessarily a good thing. Remember the goal in PCT is to restore a normal and healthy endocrine system and completely shutting down estrogen is not going to help with this as you are going to need to have some (normal) amount of estrogen. Hell one might even argue that nolva use can actually SLOW your HPTA recovery.

    Lastly, considering we have actual evidence for clomid and its efficiacy for the treatment hypogonadism- http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/1...702.x/abstract

    I maintain, clomid is the clear choice here
    PESCIENCE.COM

    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates

  10. Some more on nolva

    On non-alcoholic fatty liver disease - http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...87197911000050

    On impotence - http://annonc.oxfordjournals.org/con...nc.mdr459.full
    PESCIENCE.COM

    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates
  11. Unbreakable
    David Dunn's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    On toxicity - http://idosi.org/mejsr/mejsr9(1)11/18.pdf

    Despite treating with silymarin nolva appears to still be quite hepatoxic

    As for effects on estrogen, yes nolva has the potential to be an aromatase inhibitor (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21390495) but this is not necessarily a good thing. Remember the goal in PCT is to restore a normal and healthy endocrine system and completely shutting down estrogen is not going to help with this as you are going to need to have some (normal) amount of estrogen. Hell one might even argue that nolva use can actually SLOW your HPTA recovery.

    Lastly, considering we have actual evidence for clomid and its efficiacy for the treatment hypogonadism- http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/1...702.x/abstract

    I maintain, clomid is the clear choice here
    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    Some more on nolva

    On non-alcoholic fatty liver disease - http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...87197911000050

    On impotence - http://annonc.oxfordjournals.org/con...nc.mdr459.full
    As I mentioned earlier the issue I was addressing is the matter of best for testosterone stimulation.

    Additionally, the references you present support your claims of novla toxicity. I cannot believe that clomid dosed at 5x is free of any adverse liver and occular toxicity. While I am sure that it is also toxic I am not going to research and post references as I have not presented any stance on toxicity of either so I have no need to support it.

    To the inverse, show us (without a bias search) how non-toxic clomid is at 5x the dose of nolva.
    Life is a terminal condition.

    She thinks that happiness is a mat that sits on her doorway.

  12. Dont think anyone cares but i found the thread, Havoc Write-up

  13. Quote Originally Posted by Legacykid View Post
    Dont think anyone cares but i found the thread, Havoc Write-up
    ha ~~repped

    Serious Nutrition Solution ~~

    mw at seriousnutritionsolutions dot com
    Use anabolic05 for 5% off at Lockout supplements


  14. So I'm doing my research and up pops this thread! Which In The end has only brought confusion at least to me haha..
    I'm running a test e cycle and I was pretty sure I wanted to run tamoxifen citrate.. Seeing how it has low toxic issues in comparison to clomid. Especially ocular issues. I'm already blind as hell! So would the recommendation be tamoxifen? Simple cycle..

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