Joint Support

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69
    Cissus does indeed appear to exert anti-obesogenic effects (that are synergistic with African Mango). It could also positively affect neurotransmitters and serotonin. As for its effects on joints, there may not be human trials as of yet, but the anti-inflammatory effect of CQ is well-documented.
    I've noticed a big help while taking cissus
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    Super Cissus ftw... check out Nutra for USPowders bulk Super Cissus RX... and also check out this link... good info on it.

    ergo-log(dot)com/cissusquadrangularisbonecells. html
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    All this cissus talk, has anyone tried eucommia bark or other herbs that martial artists typically used for connective tissue?
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    OP: Something about fish oil not being effective regarding heart disease or something. (Basically I didn't read the article)

    Below are comments back and forth:

    Me:Even if this info was true for everyone, it would still be good for joints right?

    Alan Aragon: Randall -- There is some evidence for this, yes. However, it's mainly limited to therapeutic applications (ie, rheumatoid arthritis, osteoarthritis). I doubt fish oil will do much for those who abuse their joints in the gym.

    Me:Thanks Alan, what's your take on Cissus for joints? Or I suppose my question is what do you think is best to use to keep them lubed up?

    Alan:Cissus research has some very high potential for commercial bias. The lead investigator of the research (Julius Oben) is also the patent holder & CSO of the company who sells the cissus-containing formulations. As for keeping joints healthy in the long term, your best bet is to make sure your training & diet overall is well-balanced, and make sure you chose the right parents. Regular fatty fish intake (or fish oil supplementation) won't hurt. Popular joint pain supps like glucosamine & chondroitin have performed equivocally in the literature.

    Thoughts?
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    ^ Alan knows I respect him wholeheartedly but I would need to have a conversation with him on both topics. Fish oil is more a question of total FA balance, and cissus has high-impact factor , unbiased studies on its MOA. There is some sponsorship (see CORE, irivina, etc), but there is also ample evidence showing cissus is potentially therapeutic.
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    Glucosamine and chondroitin also have totally dissimilar MOAs to cissus. Alan is an amazing nutritional scientist, but I doubt he's had time to dissect the literature behind common supplement ingredients.
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    Thanks coop, cause I've been wanting to start paying some better attention to my joints. So would Cissus, glucosamine, and chondroitin all be good places to start? Also what is MOA? It is method of application or something close? I hope I'm at least close.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randoja View Post
    Thanks coop, cause I've been wanting to start paying some better attention to my joints. So would Cissus, glucosamine, and chondroitin all be good places to start? Also what is MOA? It is method of application or something close? I hope I'm at least close.
    Hah, mechanism of action. Cissus promotes growth of bone and connective tissue, whereas glucosamine and chondroitin are more "preventative" to the joint capsule.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Hah, mechanism of action. Cissus promotes growth of bone and connective tissue, whereas glucosamine and chondroitin are more "preventative" to the joint capsule.
    Gotcha, so cissus, in addition to either glucosamine or chondroitin, and you pretty much have your bases covered as far as repair and preservation?
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    Now this is what I wanted to know!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randoja View Post
    Gotcha, so cissus, in addition to either glucosamine or chondroitin, and you pretty much have your bases covered as far as repair and preservation?
    Right. I would say the major difference is that cissus can help with a pre-existing injury
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Right. I would say the major difference is that cissus can help with a pre-existing injury
    Good, good, extremely helpful as always Coop, thanks bro.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    ^ Alan knows I respect him wholeheartedly but I would need to have a conversation with him on both topics. Fish oil is more a question of total FA balance, and cissus has high-impact factor , unbiased studies on its MOA. There is some sponsorship (see CORE, irivina, etc), but there is also ample evidence showing cissus is potentially therapeutic.
    He generally dismisses anything with biased funding which IMO is stupid. The controls are far more important and an ability to read between the lines. And I have paid for his research letter.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Royd The Noyd View Post
    He generally dismisses anything with biased funding which IMO is stupid. The controls are far more important and an ability to read between the lines. And I have paid for his research letter.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Royd The Noyd View Post
    He generally dismisses anything with biased funding which IMO is stupid. The controls are far more important and an ability to read between the lines. And I have paid for his research letter.
    Agreed, but it may be due to his lack of hands-on experience in conducting research. There's a huge difference between a VPX study showing that Meltdown is 800x stronger than EC and a study examining the therapeutic potential of an ingredient. Funding can't make in vitro assays present a certain way, for instance.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randoja View Post
    Gotcha, so cissus, in addition to either glucosamine or chondroitin, and you pretty much have your bases covered as far as repair and preservation?
    That's why I like taking Cissus with ElastiJoint. It works well with my knees.
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