supplement that gives the dry appearance

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    Wow, Excellent condition for no hormones. Hell excellent condition with hormones.
    Just inject.
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    ^^^Alot of times natural guys will get DRIER since they have less variables to be concerned with....this drug countering this side effect, plus this drug to counter this other side effect etc....They might not be big, round and full --- but they can get dry and very conditioned!-Matt
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    Drink a bottle of jack, then you'll wake up dry and hard the next morning

    Lmfao

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    Quote Originally Posted by UnderXero
    Drink a bottle of jack, then you'll wake up dry and hard the next morning

    Lmfao

    Broscience
    Not recommending it but can vouch for this haha I always wake up appearing "dryer" and "leaner" after a moderate night of drinking.
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    Just imagine how dried out you would've been after a balls-to-the-walls night of drinking! You're not really REALLY dry unless your head feels like it's taking a railroad spike.
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    Matt, what does that guy weigh dialed in?
    Just inject.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattPorter View Post
    ^^^Alot of times natural guys will get DRIER since they have less variables to be concerned with....this drug countering this side effect, plus this drug to counter this other side effect etc....They might not be big, round and full --- but they can get dry and very conditioned!-Matt

    Def agree.. balancing everything from AAS to pharmacological meds for hypertension, and everything else can become quite the challenge. You have 5 different meds to counteract side effects for 5 other things.. its just a chain reaction that is hard to stop.

    Mike
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    I am fascinated between the differences in pre workout prep for naturals and assisted athletes. To me I have never done anything that drastic for the week prior a shoot but my body fat levels are not bodybuilder-esque. I only need to come in at 7%, nowhere near as dry as the guys in these photos.

    Matt, what would your protocols look like for natural athletes? Actually natural, not 'natural *wink*' lol.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdcc View Post
    I am fascinated between the differences in pre workout prep for naturals and assisted athletes. To me I have never done anything that drastic for the week prior a shoot but my body fat levels are not bodybuilder-esque. I only need to come in at 7%, nowhere near as dry as the guys in these photos.

    Matt, what would your protocols look like for natural athletes? Actually natural, not 'natural *wink*' lol.
    My understanding is those guys were natural.
    Just inject.
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    Quote Originally Posted by HereToStudy View Post
    My understanding is those guys were natural.
    indeed.



    i'm not Matt, but i think i can emulate his response....

    there is no difference between protocols for natty/enhanced per se - it is the fact of 'enhancement' that you then may have to do some things to 'counteract' the effects of that enhancement, that differs.
    even then, it is not night/day differences in guidelines..

    the same principles that apply to totally natty guys will work when utilized with anabolics.

    ppl like to make this a complicated thought process (been there, done that myself ).
    it's not.
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    Quote Originally Posted by snagencyV2.0 View Post
    indeed.



    i'm not Matt, but i think i can emulate his response....

    there is no difference between protocols for natty/enhanced per se - it is the fact of 'enhancement' that you then may have to do some things to 'counteract' the effects of that enhancement, that differs.
    even then, it is not night/day differences in guidelines..

    the same principles that apply to totally natty guys will work when utilized with anabolics.

    ppl like to make this a complicated thought process (been there, done that myself ).
    it's not.
    I would hope that it differs a lot to what he outlined previously lol.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdcc View Post
    I would hope that it differs a lot to what he outlined previously lol.
    if you are talking about this:

    8% bF and below
    DHT product such as AndroHard
    Aromatase control product such as Erase pro
    ECA/CLEN which contributes to diuresis
    11 KT for stress/cortisol control --AndroLean


    then obviously........

    there would be some otc product that you could use in place of this, if desired.
    (already illustrated by erase pro/ECA)

    as far as diet/training goes, which is ULTIMATELY the catalyst for getting into ultra-low bf levels, there would be no (or very little) difference.

    diet is key - not drugs, and not supps.
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    Quote Originally Posted by theniteman View Post
    Not recommending it but can vouch for this haha I always wake up appearing "dryer" and "leaner" after a moderate night of drinking.
    Theres been times Ive woken up with my brain swirling but looking peeled. Not advocating it - just seconding the vouch
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    Quote Originally Posted by snagencyV2.0 View Post
    if you are talking about this:

    8% bF and below
    DHT product such as AndroHard
    Aromatase control product such as Erase pro
    ECA/CLEN which contributes to diuresis
    11 KT for stress/cortisol control --AndroLean


    then obviously........

    there would be some otc product that you could use in place of this, if desired.
    (already illustrated by erase pro/ECA)

    as far as diet/training goes, which is ULTIMATELY the catalyst for getting into ultra-low bf levels, there would be no (or very little) difference.

    diet is key - not drugs, and not supps.
    You are complicating this and not answering my initial question lol.

    - Matt posts up a protocol involving some PEDs as his protocol for people in the final phases
    - As he has only posted a single protocol, I get curious and ask what he does if he has a natural competitor
    - You jump in and tell me the protocols don't differ
    - I say that they do because his protocol revolves around PEDs and real naturals won't use them
    - You then tell me diet and training is key and there would be little difference from assisted athletes even though this isn't my question
    - I am still none the wiser to what protocol he likes using, if any, with natural athletes.

    With all due respect, I was asking Matt if he had a protocol he regularly uses with natural competitors because I made an assumption he coaches a lot of bodybuilders so wanted to know how his compared to mine. I am still curious to know what protocol he uses. I am not asking how diet and training differ, I was asking a very brief question solely on natural supplementation prior to contest.
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    okay.

    http://forums.musculardevelopment.co...r-CONTEST-PREP!

    all of your questions are answered here.

    one of the best threads i have ever seen.
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    BDCC, you compete natural?
    Just inject.
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    Quote Originally Posted by HereToStudy View Post
    BDCC, you compete natural?
    I am strictly no AAS/PH products. I don't compete though, fitness modelling is where I am at so in theory I could take AAS and it wouldn't matter as I don't get tested, they are just not for me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdcc View Post
    I am strictly no AAS/PH products. I don't compete though, fitness modelling is where I am at so in theory I could take AAS and it wouldn't matter as I don't get tested, they are just not for me.

    BDCC,

    Snag is of course saying very accurate things regarding diet is always key regardless of drugs or no drugs...

    I think you after how exactly I 'peak' and 'dry out' a natty guy opposed to an assisted? I will actually look at those guys files and I can literally just paste it..

    If you noticed -- I dont keep secrets like these other guru/prep guys.

    I believe in sharing info on forums that I PERSONALLY would appreciate learning about.

    Too many shady, agenda ridden people out there...

    No secrets -- this stuff isn't always novelty information

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    Quote Originally Posted by snagencyV2.0

    indeed.

    i'm not Matt, but i think i can emulate his response....

    there is no difference between protocols for natty/enhanced per se - it is the fact of 'enhancement' that you then may have to do some things to 'counteract' the effects of that enhancement, that differs.
    even then, it is not night/day differences in guidelines..

    the same principles that apply to totally natty guys will work when
    utilized with anabolics.

    ppl like to make this a complicated thought process (been there, done that myself ).
    it's not.
    Protocols are very different when dealing with insulin and peptides for fullness.. pharma diuretics for dryness.. pgcl and laxatives to flatten the midsection.. seo to bring up lagging muscles or making muscles fuller without weight gain to make wt classes. Etc.

    Bodybuilding not natural is quite the ordeal. Fun but scary to live and do.
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    Quote Originally Posted by criticalbench

    Protocols are very different when dealing with insulin and peptides for fullness.. pharma diuretics for dryness.. pgcl and laxatives to flatten the midsection.. seo to bring up lagging muscles or making muscles fuller without weight gain to make wt classes. Etc.

    Bodybuilding not natural is quite the ordeal. Fun but scary to live and do.
    Everyone does stuff different. I use to do more now i find i can control my appearance much better with higher doses of less of certain things.

    All the respect in the world for natty bodybuilders.

    Mike
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    Quote Originally Posted by criticalbench View Post
    Protocols are very different when dealing with insulin and peptides for fullness.. pharma diuretics for dryness.. pgcl and laxatives to flatten the midsection.. seo to bring up lagging muscles or making muscles fuller without weight gain to make wt classes. Etc.

    Bodybuilding not natural is quite the ordeal. Fun but scary to live and do.
    you love reading things into my posts don't you!
    eissh..i think things are getting skewed here.

    let me say Mike, that half the things you just said, i have no clue about.
    my experience is in natural training/prep, not drug-aided approaches.

    so - i speak more of dietary discretion, and to this point, simple steroid use vs. non-steroid use -- to me, there is not a whole lot of difference in dietary discourse. what worked for me natty, also works for me with steroidal product.

    i was simply trying to infer to bdcc, per his reference to Matt's post on an example approach listed, that there is no 'magical' secret for otc supps for the natty individual, or for that matter no dietary 'secret approach'.

    i applaud your obvious knowledge, am now a little more aware of what i will be up against in Nationals, and now back out of this conversation.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdcc View Post
    I am strictly no AAS/PH products. I don't compete though, fitness modelling is where I am at so in theory I could take AAS and it wouldn't matter as I don't get tested, they are just not for me.
    Cool, didn't meant to imply you should or shouldn't, just was curious.
    Just inject.
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    Quote Originally Posted by snagencyV2.0 View Post
    you love reading things into my posts don't you!
    eissh..i think things are getting skewed here.

    let me say Mike, that half the things you just said, i have no clue about.
    my experience is in natural training/prep, not drug-aided approaches.

    so - i speak more of dietary discretion, and to this point, simple steroid use vs. non-steroid use -- to me, there is not a whole lot of difference in dietary discourse. what worked for me natty, also works for me with steroidal product.

    i was simply trying to infer to bdcc, per his reference to Matt's post on an example approach listed, that there is no 'magical' secret for otc supps for the natty individual, or for that matter no dietary 'secret approach'.

    i applaud your obvious knowledge, am now a little more aware of what i will be up against in Nationals, and now back out of this conversation.
    I would unquestionably trade carbs for protein while using exogenous hormones (higher nitrogen retention; less need for protein-sparing effect of carbs). Fat intake should stay approximately the same but metabolic demands would theoretically be reduced since exogenous hormones would downregulate steroid hormone biosynthesis.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    I would unquestionably trade carbs for protein while using exogenous hormones (higher nitrogen retention; less need for protein-sparing effect of carbs). Fat intake should stay approximately the same but metabolic demands would theoretically be reduced since exogenous hormones would downregulate steroid hormone biosynthesis.
    ahaaaa.
    yes cy, a minute change perhaps, but you may have something there.
    i did notice i could utilize more carbs thruout the process while not sacrificing leaning, but -- in that last 2-week window before landing that plane, i had to get just as stringent w/ carbs/cals as when i was natty (even moreso really, as i was striving for personal-low bf levels).
    so, once again, for bdcc and his question - really no diff between the two.

    btw - how many bodybuilding preps/model shoots have you prepped for, or guided someone thru?
    i wasn't aware you had such experience.
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    Cool


    Quote Originally Posted by snagencyV2.0 View Post

    btw - how many bodybuilding preps/model shoots have you prepped for, or guided someone thru?
    i wasn't aware you had such experience.
    Zero. Ignore me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by snagencyV2.0 View Post
    ahaaaa.
    yes cy, a minute change perhaps, but you may have something there.
    i did notice i could utilize more carbs thruout the process while not sacrificing leaning, but -- in that last 2-week window before landing that plane, i had to get just as stringent w/ carbs/cals as when i was natty (even moreso really, as i was striving for personal-low bf levels).
    so, once again, for bdcc and his question - really no diff between the two.

    btw - how many bodybuilding preps/model shoots have you prepped for, or guided someone thru?
    i wasn't aware you had such experience.
    Once again, I was asking Matt for any particular supplement protocol he uses for peaking, not for differences in diet lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by MattPorter View Post
    BDCC,

    Snag is of course saying very accurate things regarding diet is always key regardless of drugs or no drugs...

    I think you after how exactly I 'peak' and 'dry out' a natty guy opposed to an assisted? I will actually look at those guys files and I can literally just paste it..

    If you noticed -- I dont keep secrets like these other guru/prep guys.

    I believe in sharing info on forums that I PERSONALLY would appreciate learning about.

    Too many shady, agenda ridden people out there...

    No secrets -- this stuff isn't always novelty information

    -Matt
    Yes please, this is exactly what I was asking for. As your first protocol depends heavily on PEDs I was curious to know what you could do with natural athletes when these were not allowed.

    Strategies for contest/photoshoot week vary so much I like collecting information from people with a background in doing it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Zero. Ignore me.
    lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by bdcc View Post
    Once again, I was asking Matt for any particular supplement protocol he uses for peaking, not for differences in diet lol.
    yes, we already established that.
    hence - why i included that thread link, where your exact question is asked by someone else, and covered.

    Matt is great with these things, srs talent he has.
    and he is very generous with his time and advice.

    my apologies for even attempting to step in to help.
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    Quote Originally Posted by criticalbench

    Protocols are very different when dealing with insulin and peptides for fullness.. pharma diuretics for dryness.. pgcl and laxatives to flatten the midsection.. seo to bring up lagging muscles or making muscles fuller without weight gain to make wt classes. Etc.

    Bodybuilding not natural is quite the ordeal. Fun but scary to live and do.
    It's always something that interested me. Just simply as another dimension to shaping the human form and syncing physiology.
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    Welp, I see it wasn't mentioned -- as it's a relatively new product on the market but MAN's Nolvadren XT is along the lines of what you want. Very similar to Erase, which has been mentioned aplenty (as arimistane is a stud in and of itself).

    NXT combines arimistane for an AI (at a solid dose of 75mg), DIM for test modulation, and a cortisol control complex.

    It's catching face as a few logs pop up here/there; but as an extra bonus -- NP has it on sale ($10 off) and there is also a promo up for a bottle.
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    For bdcc

    Nothing special here....

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    Awesome, thank you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    I would unquestionably trade carbs for protein while using exogenous hormones (higher nitrogen retention; less need for protein-sparing effect of carbs). Fat intake should stay approximately the same but metabolic demands would theoretically be reduced since exogenous hormones would downregulate steroid hormone biosynthesis.
    Ahh, but there is nothing like the fullness of on cycle + carbs.
    Just inject.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdcc View Post
    Awesome, thank you.

    Yes,

    Let em know if you anymore questions?

    -Matt
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    nice dietary guidelines Matt!

    hmmm..no crazy supp protocol..how bout that...
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    Quote Originally Posted by snagencyV2.0 View Post
    nice dietary guidelines Matt!

    hmmm..no crazy supp protocol..how bout that...
    That's what I was curious about but he answered my question either way.
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    Thanks again Matt. I was curious to know if you used AIs, cortisol modulators and diuretics during the final phase.

    I thought you might use a more comprehensive supplement protocol, you answered my question.

    In future if I have further questions I will just PM you.

    Thanks again.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdcc View Post
    Thanks again Matt. I was curious to know if you used AIs, cortisol modulators and diuretics during the final phase.I thought you might use a more comprehensive supplement protocol, you answered my question.In future if I have further questions I will just PM you. Thanks again.
    Actually I prefer to ONLY answer questions in the open because other members can sometimes find info valuable to them and learn a bit.

    Too many people not giving out good info these days and threads starting to suck with redundancy.

    Yes I will various things as you mentioned above depending on the persons situation.


    -Matt
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    Quote Originally Posted by snagencyV2.0 View Post
    nice dietary guidelines Matt!

    hmmm..no crazy supp protocol..how bout that...

    I have gotten a bit "crazy" on specific people ....but no one size fits all to everyone...

    Variations non stop....

    -matt
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattPorter View Post
    I have gotten a bit "crazy" on specific people ....but no one size fits all to everyone...

    Variations non stop....

    -matt
    Really enjoy what your posting.. a good read.

    Mike
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    Quote Originally Posted by criticalbench View Post
    Really enjoy what your posting.. a good read.Mike
    Thanks Mike,Always value your input too-Matt
  

  
 

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