Green Coffee Bean & Weight Loss

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  1. Oh Atrogin


  2. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Oh Atrogin
    Is this comment about berberine and if so is it in reference to this PMID: 20522589?
    PESCIENCE.COM

    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    Is this comment about berberine and if so is it in reference to this PMID: 20522589?
    Indeed

  4. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Indeed
    I will say, this does seem to be a legitimate concern with berberine. Decreased muscle protein synthesis and increased muscle protein degradation is definetely not something we want but with just about all berberine studies this one uses the murine model and focuses on diabetics. Berberine is a very interesting ingredient that has much promise for its use but the evidence for it just isnt that clear and is limited. I really wish there was more non diabetic human research on this stuff

    Now as for the one above, the authors did note the effects happened to both diabetic and non-diabetic mice. To me it appears to be a result of AMPk which in turn stimulates the atrogin-1 expression. But wouldnt this be a problem with anything that increases AMPk? Via the study it looks like the stimulation of AMPk leads to mTOR complex-1 (TORC1) inhibition by way of the phosphorylation of raptor which results in the reduced protein synthesis and enhanced protein degradation as well as an expression of atrogin-1. Even the authors of the study note, "We recognize that our findings from experiments utilizing mice or cultured cells may not reflect events occurring in patients with type 2 diabetes. Reports of protein turnover in diabetic or insulin-resistant patients find no muscle wasting unless the patients are elderly or sedentary (29–32). Even though obese patients with type 2 diabetes were shown to exhibit some impairment in ATP production, it has also been found that intensive insulin therapy did not change leucine kinetics when compared with results achieved with conventional insulin therapy (33). However, our results do indicate that antidiabetes drugs can cause unexpected consequences, including changes in protein metabolism." Have you done the HED math work to see what the dose of berberine they were using on the mice converts to in humans? As you I am sure you know rodent to human conversion is usually a problem with rodent trials as most times the dose used on rodents is significantly less than the dose a human might use. Then there is also the problem of extrapolating the results from trials and applying them to individuals as even the ingredients with strong science behind their use sometimes will fall short to a individual. I mean look at creatine. There are dozens of studies showing creatine supplementation improves lean body mass and strength and yet there are still a significant amount of individuals who dont get these results with its use. Another thing of concern is the inhibition of liver enzymes but with most of the studies showing this decreased/inhibited enzyme activity they are using massive doses. Anecdotally though I have used berberine several times and never had a problem with it.
    PESCIENCE.COM

    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates

  5. intersting read
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  6. Most of the time when you're reading about negative effects if a given stimulus its administered in mass quantities almost unattainable by diet and supplementation unless the individual has that kind of inventory and actively trying to reach those doses. Some studies I've read also talk the same way about the benefits of some things but require a ridiculous amount. These are often rat studies with numbers converted to human ratios or studies where the clients are introduced to massive loads.

    In our cases, a lot of studies we look at are geared toward diabetics. Especially those articles on carbohydrates metabolism and the prevention of skeletal muscle atrophy. Those clients have a few variables we, hopefully, don't have to deal with so there's an offset hormonal constituent to account for in these studies. I do wish more researh could be done on non diabetics to eliminate variables and focus just on the metabolic pathways... But usually research is driven for clinical significance because that's what pays the bills.
    By believing passionately in something that still does not exist, we create it. The nonexistent is whatever we have not sufficiently desired.
    Franz Kafka

  7. Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    Seems to also have an effect on 11-HSD1

    Our Vatt Attack extract is based off the extraction methods of this study...

  8. Quote Originally Posted by USPowders

    Our Vatt Attack extract is based off the extraction methods of this study...
    Which instill have some powder of and will be using in a few weeks

    Love vat attack
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