Best GDA for High Glycemic Carbohydrates

[Tomahawk88]

I was rummaging through my supplement stash and realized something. All of my GDAs suggest using complex carbs. Which is nice for when dosing preworkout. The thing is I am doing LeanGains(IF) and train fasted. I am mainly concerned about simple carbs and getting in as fast as possible post workout. At least when it comes to my first meal.

So basically any suggestions as far as GDAs that work well with simple carbs.

 

[mr.cooper69]

Don't use GDAs postworkout IMO. Muscle insulin sensitivity is already exactly where you want it to be. IF you so choose to use a GDA, agmatine + Na-R-ALA would be best.

 

[John Smeton]

Glycobol which contains NA-R_ALA and some other nice insulin mimetics

you can find it on nutraplanet store or at our website-I have a code that can save you 30% on all our products at our website www.aisportsnutrition.com just message me for it

 

[sam805]

How much na rala mr cooper? Can I use just r lipoic acid? If so how much?

 

[mr.cooper69]

How much na rala mr cooper? Can I use just r lipoic acid? If so how much?

300mg Na-R-ALA daily or 600mg R-ALA daily

 

[Geoforce]

What is the purpose of the GDA post-workout? I've never played around with them post-workout because it never made logical sense to use them then (to me at least), but that was when I was taking in a bunch of carbs post-workout which isn't something I do anymore.

 

[mr.cooper69]

What is the purpose of the GDA post-workout? I've never played around with them post-workout because it never made logical sense to use them then (to me at least), but that was when I was taking in a bunch of carbs post-workout which isn't something I do anymore.

That is exactly what I noted above.

 

[Clemenza]

Don't use GDAs postworkout IMO. Muscle insulin sensitivity is already exactly where you want it to be. IF you so choose to use a GDA, agmatine + Na-R-ALA would be best.

Exactly! GDA's post workout are pretty redundant.

If you're looking for a gda that works well for a high gi cheat meal.... 10mg vanadyl sulfate with 200 mg chromium polynicotate. I've done the blood glucose tests and saw remarkable results.

 

[sam805]

I'm just thinking out loud here. Would the use of a gda after a high dose of carbs, not necessarily pwo, assist in driving supplemented carnitine into the muscle? Just trying to find a way to enhance the effects of l carnitine and insulin via high glycemic carbs so I don't have to pin slin and carnitine.

 

[Geoforce]

That is exactly what I noted above.

Yeah I was just making sure I wasn't missing something!

 

[mr.cooper69]

I'm just thinking out loud here. Would the use of a gda after a high dose of carbs, not necessarily pwo, assist in driving supplemented carnitine into the muscle? Just trying to find a way to enhance the effects of l carnitine and insulin via high glycemic carbs so I don't have to pin skin and carnitine.

I've already made my thoughts on this pretty clear. Just use PLCAR and insulin will no longer be a necessity.

 

[sam805]

K thanks I'll use the search thread and try to find some of your past posts

 

[John Smeton]

A a strong GDA like n-r-ala post workout with lots of carbs like 75 or more helps the carbs shuttle into the muscles more and helps the nutrients be stored more and not get wasted and helps with the excess carbs overspilling stored as fat. In addition anti-oxidant benefits of na-r-ala are incredible.

you can treat glycobol like insulin because that is how it acts. In fact Vaughtrue tested glycobol on a glucometer and got the same readings as about 10 uis of real insulin using two glycobols

a capsule of glycobol contains 250 mgs n-r-ala, which is 10-30 x's more potent than r-ala (which is more potent than ala)

 

[mr.cooper69]

A a strong GDA like n-r-ala post workout with lots of carbs like 75 or more helps the carbs shuttle into the muscles more and helps the nutrients be stored more and not get wasted and helps with the excess carbs overspilling stored as fat. In addition anti-oxidant benefits of na-r-ala are incredible.

you can treat glycobol like insulin because that is how it acts. In fact Vaughtrue tested glycobol on a glucometer and got the same readings as about 10 uis of real insulin using two glycobols

a capsule of glycobol contains 250 mgs n-r-ala, which is 10-30 x's more potent than r-ala (which is more potent than ala)

I'm sorry but this post is terrible. You make a false statement in every paragraph. No offense, I generally like your input, but please reconsider what you just said.

 

[John Smeton]

I'm sorry but this post is terrible. You make a false statement in every paragraph. No offense, I generally like your input, but please reconsider what you just said.

I know exactly what i said and I can show you the post where Vaughtrue had the glucometer tests showing the readings where it compares to real insulin and the fact he has used real insulin to compare this to

 

[mr.cooper69]

I know exactly what i said and I can show you the post where Vaughtrue had the glucometer tests showing the readings where it compares to real insulin and the fact he has used real insulin to compare this to

Sigh.

There is no evidence that a GDA preferentially shuttles nutrients to muscle. Exercise, however, does. (parapraph 1)

Na-R-ALA does not act like insulin. (paragraph 2)

Na-R-ALA is not 10-30x more potent than R-ALA. Not even close. (paragraph 3).

 

[John Smeton]

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=116095151&p=326440333&viewfull=1#post326440333

here are Vt's glucometer results. I recommend you take the time to read this log, you seem well researched like me who has spent literally hours researching many many days for hours at a time since about 2001 on bodybuilding and has been large and in charge for ten years now.

 

[John Smeton]

Sigh.

There is no evidence that a GDA preferentially shuttles nutrients to muscle. Exercise, however, does. (parapraph 1)

Na-R-ALA does not act like insulin. (paragraph 2)

Na-R-ALA is not 10-30x more potent than R-ALA. Not even close. (paragraph 3).

well I have different research than yourself

try life extension magazine 2007 summer issue where there a study showing na-r-ala is 10-30 x's more potenet than r-ala

 

[Craigmatthew]

Always love your gda posts mr cooper. I learn something every time. Appreciate you taking the time to post.

 

[mr.cooper69]

I stand by everything I said, but no point in arguing. You're just doing your job after all.

 

[John Smeton]

Sigh.

There is no evidence that a GDA preferentially shuttles nutrients to muscle. Exercise, however, does. (parapraph 1)

Na-R-ALA does not act like insulin. (paragraph 2)

Na-R-ALA is not 10-30x more potent than R-ALA. Not even close. (paragraph 3).

do you have studies because I have glucometer tests and studies

I see no evidence of your comments -why dont you dig up studies and prove them

 

[John Smeton]

its all good ,MrCooper, we all have differing views

I started taking ast's r-ala postworkout in 2004 and gained nicely full and puimped, was 230lbs natural meaning never touched a hormone, not lean, not fat. hell stronger than I am now and I take otc hormones maybe once every year-I just cant go heavy like I did due to joints are not like they were

now a days take na-r-ala and love the stuff and truley beleive it works nicely for me for anti-oxidants and fuller muscles. (and most of all health benefits)

 

[mr.cooper69]

do you have studies because I have glucometer tests and studies

I see no evidence of your comments -why dont you dig up studies and prove them

Both myself and my friend have written research reviews on Na-R-ALA. I have plenty of sources, but unfortunately, not plenty of energy .

One thing that we cannot dispute is that Na-R-ALA is a great ingredient that people should be using if the funds are present.

 

[Tomahawk88]

Don't use GDAs postworkout IMO. Muscle insulin sensitivity is already exactly where you want it to be. IF you so choose to use a GDA, agmatine + Na-R-ALA would be best.

Well right now I am trying to lose some fat, but I dont want to deprive my muscles of carbs. So I am doing the Intermittent Fasting. When it comes time to eat I tear through some carbs. Post workout I had 16oz of chocolate milk, a small apple, equivalent of a cup of uncook Jasmine rice, a banana, and an 8 oz cup of blackberries. That was in a little less than a 3 hour feeding window.

Glycobol which contains NA-R_ALA and some other nice insulin mimetics

you can find it on nutraplanet store or at our website-I have a code that can save you 30% on all our products at our website www.aisportsnutrition.com just message me for it

I have a place in mind. In fact I had SlinShot in mind, but the store I buy from doesnt carry it.

its all good ,MrCooper, we all have differing views

I started taking ast's r-ala postworkout in 2004 and gained nicely full and puimped, was 230lbs natural meaning never touched a hormone, not lean, not fat. hell stronger than I am now and I take otc hormones maybe once every year-I just cant go heavy like I did due to joints are not like they were

now a days take na-r-ala and love the stuff and truley beleive it works nicely for me for anti-oxidants and fuller muscles. (and most of all health benefits)

It looks like this will be next on my list. Found some NeedtoSlin I can use till I stock up. It "has" the na-r-ala you all agree is a great option.

Both myself and my friend have written research reviews on Na-R-ALA. I have plenty of sources, but unfortunately, not plenty of energy .

One thing that we cannot dispute is that Na-R-ALA is a great ingredient that people should be using if the funds are present.

Funds are not too big of an issue right now. I should be able to fit it in my cart. Just a matter of deciding what is more pressing this month.

 

[strategicmove]

well I have different research than yourself

try life extension magazine 2007 summer issue where there a study showing na-r-ala is 10-30 x's more potenet than r-ala

Thumbs up, John!

 

[Geoforce]

do you have studies because I have glucometer tests and studies

I see no evidence of your comments -why dont you dig up studies and prove them

What are the glucometer tests proving though? You haven't really disproved any of Cooper's points (which are similar to mine). Specifically the number 1, that GDA's shuttle nutrients to muscle especially in regards to postworkout.

The "potency" type issue I could really care less about. But with all due respect I don't think you've shown anything yet that says a GDA post workout is a great option. Not trying to flame, just looking for discussion.

 

[sam805]

regardless of you guys agreeing to disagree, this is great info and conversation on gda's. thanks guys this where we all learn something. Im thinking one could add na rala to dats no carb pwo protocol with out insulin? this maybe more effective than the protocol with out insulin and only a little less effective than the protocol with insulin. Thoughts?

 

[John Smeton]

One thing that we cannot dispute is that Na-R-ALA is a great ingredient that people should be using if the funds are present.

I am glad we agree on something. Potent anti-oxidant and overlooked in my opinion

the reason I stopped using it pre contest was I thought it may have been hindering fat loss due to it acting similar to insulin

 

[mr.cooper69]

I am glad we agree on something. Potent anti-oxidant and overlooked in my opinion

the reason I stopped using it pre contest was I thought it may have been hindering fat loss due to it acting similar to insulin

It won't. Improved insulin sensitivity = less insulin output. Insulin is far more powerful at doing it's job (fat storage included) than Na-R-ALA. So in essence, it may actually aid fat loss unless you are slamming Na-R-ALA in the complete absence of carbs but with a high fat meal.

 

[Tomahawk88]

I dont normally start threads(except logs), but with the responses I got I am glad I did.

 

[mr.cooper69]

I dont normally start threads(except logs), but with the responses I got I am glad I did.

Amazing post to avi correlation.

 

[Tomahawk88]

Amazing post to avi correlation.

Haha I didnt even think of that when I wrote it. I can not take credit for it. Heretostudy made it for one of my many logs.

 

[Whacked]

I concur.

Drives me nuts to see all the BS claims stating that glucose AUTOMATICALLY preferentially ''favors" muscle cells verses fat cells.

The hype can be blamed (as usual) on the supplement companies makig false/misleading claims.

In an exercised state, perhaps (depends on other factors as well!). Otherwise, who the heck knows that you arent siimply clearing it out of the blood and into FAT CELLS!

A glucometer would NOT discern the difference! Everyone wants an insulin mimetic these days but......do people forget that Insulin "can" make you fat. Know how? By shuttling carbs into FAT CELLS for storage (same thing a GDA "can" do)!

There is no evidence that a GDA preferentially shuttles nutrients to muscle. Exercise, however, does. ).

 

[Whacked]

I hate to split hairs here but where is the proof that the increased insulin sensitivty is exclusively in the muslce cells vs adipose tissue?

It won't. Improved insulin sensitivity = less insulin output. Insulin is far more powerful at doing it's job (fat storage included) than Na-R-ALA. So in essence, it may actually aid fat loss unless you are slamming Na-R-ALA in the complete absence of carbs but with a high fat meal.

 

[T-Bone]

I concur.

Drives me nuts to see all the BS claims stating that glucose AUTOMATICALLY preferentially ''favors" muscle cells verses fat cells.

The hype can be blamed (as usual) on the supplement companies makig false/misleading claims.

In an exercised state, perhaps (depends on other factors as well!). Otherwise, who the heck knows that you arent siimply clearing it out of the blood and into FAT CELLS!

A glucometer would NOT discern the difference! Everyone wants an insulin mimetic these days but......do people forget that Insulin "can" make you fat. Know how? By shuttling carbs into FAT CELLS for storage (same thing a GDA "can" do)!

Great Post Whacked!. Agree!

 

[rob112]

Awesome discussion.

Everyone says "proof" about nutrient shuttling compounds, but can we see proof it doesn't?

No wise ass or whatever. GDA's are very interesting, yet they seem to be in some what of an "infancy" as far as healthy adults goes.

 

[mr.cooper69]

I concur.

Drives me nuts to see all the BS claims stating that glucose AUTOMATICALLY preferentially ''favors" muscle cells verses fat cells.

The hype can be blamed (as usual) on the supplement companies makig false/misleading claims.

In an exercised state, perhaps (depends on other factors as well!). Otherwise, who the heck knows that you arent siimply clearing it out of the blood and into FAT CELLS!

A glucometer would NOT discern the difference! Everyone wants an insulin mimetic these days but......do people forget that Insulin "can" make you fat. Know how? By shuttling carbs into FAT CELLS for storage (same thing a GDA "can" do)!

I hate to split hairs here but where is the proof that the increased insulin sensitivty is exclusively in the muslce cells vs adipose tissue?

There isn't proof. I said the exact same thing in an earlier post. The point is that reducing insulin output in the presence of carbs can be favorable for fat loss. Which is why I said you should only take it when insulin would otherwise by high. If you take it with, say, a pure fat meal, you aren't doing yourself any favors. This is all theory of course.

 

[John Smeton]

It won't. Improved insulin sensitivity = less insulin output. Insulin is far more powerful at doing it's job (fat storage included) than Na-R-ALA. So in essence, it may actually aid fat loss unless you are slamming Na-R-ALA in the complete absence of carbs but with a high fat meal.

with insulin even a little bit of dietary fat is stored as fat. that is why people who take insulin, if they are well studied, take low fat as possible, meaning zero fat or close to it , four hours afterwards,, or it gets stored as body fat. That is why many top amateurs and pros use it only in the off-season and not before a show.

carbohydratess it gobbles them up and stores them into the muscle. That said, you cant take 500 carbs in one meal. 10ius of insulin= about 75 carbs. two glycobols done on the glucometer test=about 10ius

 

[mr.cooper69]

with insulin even a little bit of dietary fat is stored as fat. that is why people who take insulin, if they are well studied, take low fat as possible, meaning zero fat or close to it , four hours afterwards,, or it gets stored as body fat. That is why many top amateurs and pros use it only in the off-season and not before a show.

carbohydratess it gobbles them up and stores them into the muscle. That said, you cant take 500 carbs in one meal. 10ius of insulin= about 75 carbs. two glycobols done on the glucometer test=about 10ius

Not sure of relevance to my post

 

[John Smeton]

A person could take 500 carbs in one meal during the offseason, yet some of it would be stored as fat; provided a person used insulin.

 

[oogaly_boogal]

Quick question, I have been using glycobol during my cut, essentially cycling carbs. Now I feel like an idiot as I am probably just raising my bodyfat %.

So my question is, when would it be best to take glycobol in the hopes of cutting bodyfat%?

that and if you have any input on the coupling of glycobol with freeze dried mango/ alpha yohimbe to prevent fat cells from growing.

http://www.ergo-log.com/mangoreducefat.html

 

[John Smeton]

Not sure of relevance to my post

you were saying carbs get stored as fat, if one knows what they are doing with insulin and the correct iu to carb ratio, not so much. Fat grams are what cause the fat storage with insulin. did you know that?

 

[mr.cooper69]

you were saying carbs get stored as fat, if one knows what they are doing with insulin and the correct iu to carb ratio, not so much. Fat grams are what cause the fat storage with insulin. did you know that?

I don't know why you are trying to dispute me. You are echoing exactly what I just said. That you should take the Na-R-ALA with carb-laden meals to minimize fat gain, and you should not take it with fat. Did I know that? Come on now.

 

[John Smeton]

Quick question, I have been using glycobol during my cut, essentially cycling carbs. Now I feel like an idiot as I am probably just raising my bodyfat %.

So my question is, when would it be best to take glycobol in the hopes of cutting bodyfat%?

that and if you have any input on the coupling of glycobol with freeze dried mango/ alpha yohimbe to prevent fat cells from growing.

http://www.ergo-log.com/mangoreducefat.html

you would treat glycobol like real insulin taking first thing in morning with a high carb and protein meal(low fat), and post workout

4 hours after each dose you would make sure carbs are low, then when four hours are up you can eat fat meals. That is why I don't like the insulin or using glycobol in place of it and just like to use it how I want to use it. If you want to be strict though, you would treat two caps to 10uis of insulin and follow the four hour very low to no fat guideline but that is a bit too strict for me at this point in my life so when i do use glycobol I do not follow that protocol to a T

 

[Powercage]

What multi should I take guys

 

[mr.cooper69]

you would treat glycobol like real insulin taking first thing in morning with a high carb and protein meal(low fat), and post workout

4 hours after each dose you would make sure carbs are low, then when four hours are up you can eat fat meals. That is why I don't like the insulin or using glycobol in place of it and just like to use it how I want to use it. If you want to be strict though, you would treat two caps to 10uis of insulin and follow the four hour very low to no fat guideline but that is a bit too strict for me at this point in my life.

Na-R-ALA has a half-life exceeding 17 hours, not 4.

You're looking into this way too far. If your fat intake isn't over the top, the glucosal disposal benefits are not going to hinder fat loss. It's your call of course .

 

[PuZo]

What multi should I take guys

I heard Orange Triad is good. Take 6.. not 3.. not 9.. but 6 a day and you're good

 

[Whacked]

There's an abuandance of "proof" that these exotic insulin mimetics/GDA's work to clear the nutrients from the blood more rapidly or efficiently. Heck, even vinegar does this.

There are also studies that reflect either improved glucose tolerance or increased insulin sensitvity.

Insulin moves glucose out of the blood by increasing the presence of a glucose transporter (GLUT4) on the surface of MANY different cells (FAT CELLS included!)

That said.......As expressed in my post above, the problem is that I have yet to see ONE compelling study that validates all these bogus claims that you can eat above your daily k/cal amount [or carb threshold (since we all metabolize/assimilate carbs differently)] + pop a few GDA caps and BOOM - no fat gain because magically, somehow, these OTC supplement companies have figured out a way to get carbs into the muscles as opposed to fat while Big Pharma hasn't. LOL

On that note: Anyone hear of the Diabetes medication Avandia (THE mack daddy Insulin Sensitizer)? Read about how effective this stuff shuttles glucose out of the blood. THEN, read about WHERE IT GOES! lolol A strong argument could be made that you're better off with your Diabetes than to take this garbage. Sure, lower your post-prandial glucose readings and blow up your waistline AND damage your heart too. I'll pass.

Cycle your carbs, ditch the simple sugars, favor low glycemic index carbs to avoid the scary boogey man insulin spikes all the GDAs are allegedly supposed to assist with.

As an aside, since we are always discussing PPAR's for fat loss on this board- Avandia is a PPARγ(gamma) agonist. This is the one PPAR that you want to antagonize (for fat loss, etc) and NOT agonize. I think CLA is an antagonist but the results were always hit or miss.

 

[oogaly_boogal]

you would treat glycobol like real insulin taking first thing in morning with a high carb and protein meal(low fat), and post workout

4 hours after each dose you would make sure carbs are low, then when four hours are up you can eat fat meals. That is why I don't like the insulin or using glycobol in place of it and just like to use it how I want to use it. If you want to be strict though, you would treat two caps to 10uis of insulin and follow the four hour very low to no fat guideline but that is a bit too strict for me at this point in my life so when i do use glycobol I do not follow that protocol to a T

thanks much appreciated, can't wait for the supplement that modulates GLUT4 and prevents fat cell build up haha

 

[mr.cooper69]

There's an abuandance of "proof" that these exotic insulin mimetics/GDA's work to clear the nutrients from the blood more rapidly or efficiently. Heck, even vinegar does this.

There are also studies that reflect either improved glucose tolerance or increased insulin sensitvity.

Insulin moves glucose out of the blood by increasing the presence of a glucose transporter (GLUT4) on the surface of MANY different cells (FAT CELLS included!)

As expressed above, the problem is that have yet to see ONE compelling study that validates all these bogus claims that you can eat above your daily k/cal amount [or carb threshold (since we all metabolize/assimilate carbs differently)] + pop a few GDA caps and BOOM - no fat gain because magically, somehow, these OTC supplements have figufred out a way to get carbs into the muscles as opposed to fat while Big Pharma hasnt. LOL

Anyone hear of the Diabetes medication Avandia (THE mack daddy Insulin Sensitizer)? Read about how effective this stuff shuttles glucose out fo the blood. THEN, read about WHERE IT GOES! lolol You're better off with Diabetes Type II than to take this garbage. Sure, lower your post-prandial glucose readiongs and blow up your waitline AND damage your heart too. I'll pass.

Cycle your carbs, ditch the simple sugars, favor low glycemic index carbs to avoid the scary boogey man insulin spikes all the GDAs are allegedly supposed to assist with.

As an aside, since we are always discussing PPAR's for fat loss on this board- Avandia is a PPARγ(gamma) agonist. This is the one PPAR that you want to antagonize (for fat loss, etc). I think CLA is one. Not sure.

Agreed on all counts with respect to GDAs. In my first post, I even noted that he shouldn't be using one for the purpose that he was seeking. I am advocating Na-R-ALA for overall health purposes, NOT body composition. I'm only getting into this discussion because people thought they may be unfavorable​ for body composition.