Best GDA for High Glycemic Carbohydrates

[Powercage]

I heard Orange Triad is good. Take 6.. not 3.. not 9.. but 6 a day and you're good

Reported for suggesting a dosing strategy for a multi from another company

 

[PuZo]

Everything Mr.Cooper69 has said has been accurate.

 

[Whacked]

Amen bro

Agreed on all counts with respect to GDAs. In my first post, I even noted that he shouldn't be using one for the purpose that he was seeking. I am advocating Na-R-ALA for overall health purposes, NOT body composition. I'm only getting into this discussion because people thought they may be unfavorable​ for body composition.

 

[PuZo]

you would treat glycobol like real insulin taking first thing in morning with a high carb and protein meal(low fat), and post workout

4 hours after each dose you would make sure carbs are low, then when four hours are up you can eat fat meals. That is why I don't like the insulin or using glycobol in place of it and just like to use it how I want to use it. If you want to be strict though, you would treat two caps to 10uis of insulin and follow the four hour very low to no fat guideline but that is a bit too strict for me at this point in my life so when i do use glycobol I do not follow that protocol to a T

I don't think you realize it improves insulin sensitivity and thus reduces net insulin release and all the associated feedback loops that insulin acts on.

 

[Powercage]

^^^


Na-R-ALA does not act like insulin.

 

[D3Baseball]

All SAN products are HPLC tested for purity.

 

[oogaly_boogal]

I don't think you realize it improves insulin sensitivity and thus reduces net insulin release and all the associated feedback loops that insulin acts on.

what the hell does this mean?!!!

I'm lost at this point, so should I use it for body recomp or not? Would it assist at all in fat loss? I understand that it sends glucose to both fat and muscle cells through glut4 but would an increase if insulin sensitivity be a bad thing? My first run around with it I had success but I was also using erase/alpha yohimbe/ec and an insane workout regime.

 

[PuZo]

what the hell does this mean?!!!

I'm lost at this point, so should I use it for body recomp or not? Would it assist at all in fat loss? I understand that it sends glucose to both fat and muscle cells through glut4 but would an increase if insulin sensitivity be a bad thing? My first run around with it I had success but I was also using erase/alpha yohimbe/ec and an insane workout regime.

Simple, use it. If you like it's effects well then there you go. It's something you should be using regardless of your reasoning. So if you use it under the guise of body recomp then so be it.

 

[Whacked]

Save your money and stick with these - THAT'S where your success came from

but I was also using erase/alpha yohimbe/ec and an insane workout regime.

 

[mr.cooper69]

Save your money and stick with these - THAT'S where your success came from

I'll take it a step further...

an insane workout regime.

THAT'S where your success came from

 

[Whacked]

?? Why use a product that is essentially a waste of time AND could potentially cause fat gain if used inappropriately? He just stated that he got successful results from a combination of this PLUS erase/alpha yohimbe/ec and an insane workout regime. LOL

Erase, a-YO defintely work! GDA's? Not so much.

Simple use it. If you like it's effects well then there you go. It's something you should be using regardless of your reasoning. So if you use it under the guise of body recomp then so be it.

 

[Powercage]

Every stack should have Na-R-ALA imo for anti-ox purposes. Just get some Geronova and be done with it.

 

[PuZo]

?? Why use a product that is essentially a waste of time AND could potentially cause fat gain if used inappropriately? He just stated that he got successful results from a combination of this PLUS erase/alpha yohimbe/ec and an insane workout regime. LOL

Erase, a-YO defintely work! GDA's? Not so much.

Every stack should have Na-R-ALA imo for anti-ox purposes. Just get some Geronova and be done with it.

This is why.

 

[oogaly_boogal]

gawd dammit i bought two bottles, you win this time supplement companies.

 

[mr.cooper69]

gawd dammit i bought two bottles, you win this time supplement companies.

Two bottles of what?

 

[oogaly_boogal]

glycobol, have been using one so far in my recomp. I'm not used to eating massive amounts of carbs so it (at least in my head) makes me feel like I'm utilizing them.

 

[Whacked]

If he's looking for a decent anti-oxidant (with some detoxifying benefits via glutathione) then cool.

According to his posts, he is interested in the GDA attributes of Na-r-Ala for which I say "dont waste your time".

This is why.

 

[mr.cooper69]

glycobol, have been using one so far in my recomp. I'm not used to eating massive amounts of carbs so it (at least in my head) makes me feel like I'm utilizing them.

In the future, look into Geronova bio-enhanced Na-R-ALA. Nutraplanet licenses their powder from Geronova and it's a killer deal.

 

[oogaly_boogal]

In the future, look into Geronova bio-enhanced Na-R-ALA. Nutraplanet licenses their powder from Geronova and it's a killer deal.

thanks one last question would it be beneficial to use a GDA prior to cardio as it gets all glycogen out of the blood? inducing oxidation of fat when coupled with say something along the lines of alpha yohimbe or simply coffee?

might as well get something out of this purchase

 

[T-Bone]

I take GDA on occasion on my carb ups. They seem to help me to not be so tired and dizzy after loading up on carbs. I usually get tired after eating carbs. Well after a certain amount is ingested anyway. When taking these types of products though I'm able to eat more carbs without feeling like that. So...I'm not going with one side or the other on this I'm just telling you how I feel and what they do to me.

 

[mr.cooper69]

thanks one last question would it be beneficial to use a GDA prior to cardio as it gets all glycogen out of the blood? inducing oxidation of fat when coupled with say something along the lines of alpha yohimbe or simply coffee?

might as well get something out of this purchase

You should be taking Na-R-ALA first thing in the morning anyway (note the 17-22 hour half-life).

 

[oogaly_boogal]

yeah i already take it prior to breakfast 70g of oatmeal, 50g of protein, I have difficulty shoving down food in the morning. I just mean as a GDP prior to workout to intensify the fat oxidation if coupled with LIIS or the tabatha protocol. Thanks to everyone by the way for sharing knowledge.

 

[mr.cooper69]

yeah i already take it prior to breakfast 70g of oatmeal, 50g of protein, I have difficulty shoving down food in the morning. I just mean as a GDP prior to workout to intensify the fat oxidation if coupled with LIIS or the tabatha protocol. Thanks to everyone by the way for sharing knowledge.

Again, note the half-life. The effects are not limited to a small window. Stick to 0.2mg/kg BW in yohimbine pre-cardio (fasted).

 

[oogaly_boogal]

Again, note the half-life. The effects are not limited to a small window. Stick to 0.2mg/kg BW in yohimbine pre-cardio (fasted).

Awesome thanks.

 

[Whacked]

I take GDA on occasion on my carb ups. They seem to help me to not be so tired and dizzy after loading up on carbs. I usually get tired after eating carbs. Well after a certain amount is ingested anyway. When taking these types of products though I'm able to eat more carbs without feeling like that. So...I'm not going with one side or the other on this I'm just telling you how I feel and what they do to me.

There's an abuandance of "proof" that these exotic insulin mimetics/GDA's work to clear the nutrients from the blood more rapidly or efficiently. Heck, even vinegar does this.

There are also studies that reflect either improved glucose tolerance or increased insulin sensitvity.

Insulin moves glucose out of the blood by increasing the presence of a glucose transporter (GLUT4) on the surface of MANY different cells (FAT CELLS included!) as do these GDA's

That said.......As expressed in my post above, the problem is that I have yet to see ONE compelling study that validates all these bogus claims that you can eat above your daily k/cal amount [or carb threshold (since we all metabolize/assimilate carbs differently)] + pop a few GDA caps and BOOM - no fat gain because magically, somehow, these OTC supplement companies have figured out a way to get carbs into the muscles as opposed to fat while Big Pharma hasn't. LOL

GDA's did the same for me; assisted with post-carb malaise/lethargy. At times, they even made me hypo! I thought, wow, what a potent valuable weapon discovered for my long-life plight against carb-related fat gain.

Then, as I began to put on weight in my fat sensitive areas (fat cells), I started to research the process by which these work and discovered the above.....and consequently, gave them up.

These products are falsely pimped as guilt-free carb binge products (rolling eyes in disgust). Like a sucker, I fell for them too.

As an aside, I don't know why products like Phaseolamin have fallen out of favor as these are MUCH more beneficial for our low carb crowd for potentially cab-laden damaging binges. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phaseolamin

You know the drill, for us carb-sensitive folks; accept our dietary or lifestyle induced or gentically programmed weaknesses and deal with it appropriately.....stick with PPAR ligands (alpha + beta/delta) that have proven to be insulin-sensitizers of the muscles and somewhat inhibitory in the fat cells, low glycemic index carbs to control the insulin spike, cycle your carbs and when needed ingest protein or fiber (some argue fats are fine) alongside your cabrs to further delay gastric empying/post-prandial spikes.

 

[Clemenza]

Not sure if you guys have seen it, but there's a Hall of Fame thread on gda's stickied over at md. Definitely worth the time it takes to read the while thing.

 

[Whacked]

How about some cribb notes?

 

[Clemenza]

How about some cribb notes?

The thread began discussing the different GDA's and their functions very similar to this one. Then "Tipsta" came into the conversation saying he's vigorously tested all GDA's on himself using a glucometer and found chromium POLYNICOTATE and vanadyl sulfate to work the best at keeping blood sugar low, mimicking insulin, shuttling glycogen into the muscles and even helping type 2 diabetics get off their meds. As the thread went on over months people began to use a glucometer themselves, both using the VS/CP combo and not using anything prior to a wide range of carb meals... ALL finding remarkable results in glucose disposal using VS/CP.

Now, I myself have used VS/CP on and off over the years and have also found it work as Tipsta described. I have even done glucometer tests myself for 2 weeks. 1 week no GDA's and the next week VS/CP before all carb meals. Both weeks had the exact same meals at the exact same times of day.

For example my first meal of a day would be 5 eggs / 5.2 oz. baked potato. Without GDA's it would send my blood sugar from a resting state of 75, to about 120, 15 minutes PP. (I tested myself immediately prior to the meal, immediately after, 15 minutes pp, 30 minutes pp, and 45 minutes pp, finding 15 minuted to usually be the peak.

Now, using 10mg Vanadyl Sulfate and 200mg Chromium Polynicotate immediately before a meal of 5 eggs / 5.2 oz. baked potato my levels went from 75 only to reach a height of 90, 15 minutes PP. Pretty remarkable if you ask me. And I saw these results the whole week I used VS/CP.

You don't even need a glucometer, although I recommend it. If I ate a 5.2 oz baked potato with meal 1 and meal 2... soon after I would begin to see myself get a "Watery" look as the day goes on, especially if I continue with higher GI carbs, even in small-mediocre portions.
The days I took VS/CP and ate the exact same higher gi meals, that "Watery" look NEVER CAME! I looked VERY dry.

Now the big question is where do these GDA's actually dispose the glucose to? I do remember seeing some studies reporting VS to trigger Glut-4 in muscle. I myself notice slightly less of a pump when using VS. However I can tell you that the glucose WAS NOT disposed in fat cells. I used this combo years back before I even tested it with a blood glucometer and go my leanest AND strongest.

The only other GDA I can account for is Anabolic Pump, which is one of my all time favorite supplements. I do notice intense pumps using it and much more glycogen in the muscles.

Tipsta's theory was that insulin prefers fat storage when blood glucose levels go over around 150, depending on the person. And prefer muscle at a lower level. I don't know if this is the case, but it does seem there may be something to it.

 

[Whacked]

Thanks for the info CLEM

I recall YEARS ago vanadyl sulfate and vanadium (forget which form was superior) was all the rage. So typical for the old school "proven" supps to get kicked to the curb for newer "better" sexier supps (rolling eyes).

Similarly, when Chromium Picolinate became popular (80's/90's), soon thereafter, the polynicotinate version was discovered to be vastly superior. Again, not sure why the fall off or lack or appeal these days on supps that have stood the test of time.

PS: Recompadrol has vanadium in it for those who still love their GDAs. While I still think there may be a place for these, Im just not sure exactly where or what the most efficasious application would be since we still don't know the end result/destination of the glucose/storage.

 

[Clemenza]

Thanks for the info CLEM

I recall YEARS ago vanadyl sulfate and vanadium (forget which form was superior) was all the rage. So typical for the old school "proven" supps to get kicked to the curb for newer "better" sexier supps (rolling eyes).

Similarly, when Chromium Picolinate became popular (80's/90's), soon thereafter, the polynicotinate version was discovered to be vastly superior. Again, not sure why the fall off or lack or appeal these days on supps that have stood the test of time.

PS: Recompadrol has vanadium in it for those who still love their GDAs. While I still think there may be a place for these, Im just not sure exactly where or what the most efficasious application would be since we still don't know the end result/destination of the glucose/storage.

And I think you're right, glucose destination is the end result. That's why I really enjoy AP. The data shows activation of GLUT-4 in muscle, and most importantly I can feel it!! Yes I've actually put on muscle and lost fat while using AP. Did I really just say I put on muscle and lost fat at the same time? The only problem for me is it's pricey to use year-round so I use it in the summer.

To each his own though. Some people see ZERO results from AP. Some people I know, like Tipsta see a huge increase in muscle glycogen when using VS. I think everyone needs to try each GDA out for themselves. Use a glucometer and see how it's really effecting you and look in the mirror. Use each GDA for a whole week, the next week use a different GDA but the exact same meals and meal frequency.

I've never use Na-R-ALA but I do know it is a fantastic antioxidant and if not GDA purposes it should be used for overall general health at the least.

 

[Whacked]

Glad to hear you found a product that works for you.

At the end of the day, that's ALL that matters.

 

[strategicmove]

And I think you're right, glucose destination is the end result. That's why I really enjoy AP. The data shows activation of GLUT-4 in muscle, and most importantly I can feel it!! Yes I've actually put on muscle and lost fat while using AP. Did I really just say I put on muscle and lost fat at the same time? The only problem for me is it's pricey to use year-round so I use it in the summer....

PM me your address, if you are interested. I'll make sure you get at least a bottle of Anabolic Pump within the next couple of weeks. Thank you for the support and for spreading the good word!

 

[Whacked]

http://www.lef.org/prod_hp/abstracts/php-ab249.html

Thanks for the info CLEM

I recall YEARS ago vanadyl sulfate and vanadium (forget which form was superior) was all the rage. So typical for the old school "proven" supps to get kicked to the curb for newer "better" sexier supps (rolling eyes).

Similarly, when Chromium Picolinate became popular (80's/90's), soon thereafter, the polynicotinate version was discovered to be vastly superior. Again, not sure why the fall off or lack or appeal these days on supps that have stood the test of time.

PS: Recompadrol has vanadium in it for those who still love their GDAs. While I still think there may be a place for these, Im just not sure exactly where or what the most efficasious application would be since we still don't know the end result/destination of the glucose/storage.

 

[Clemenza]

PM me your address, if you are interested. I'll make sure you get at least a bottle of Anabolic Pump within the next couple of weeks. Thank you for the support and for spreading the good word!

Very generous. Much appreciated!

 

[Clemenza]

Great find Whacked! VS is definitely beneficial in helping those with blood sugar/insulin issues. I believe it can help prevent diabetes long term. Anything that controls blood sugar and helps insulin do it's job properly can.

Think about the negative effects of high blood sugar, out of whack insulin and their effects on aging. We see more and more studies coming out that high fat diets and even high levels of dietary cholesterol are not the culprit in heart disease, obesity and overall metablic syndrom (INSULIN RESISTANCE!!). What can cause insulin resistance? High blood sugar! In keeping blood sugar low whether it be through a low carb, low gi diet, or the use of GDA's, you are ultimately keeping your insulin function normal and preventing many of the degenerating diseases that come later in life.

 

[Clemenza]

This is why the glycermic index is important and when I hear people say "As Long As It Fit's Your Macros" I go absolutely crazy!! The more I play around with my carb intake and watch how certain carbs and amounts effect my body, the more I understand how effective the GI index really is and how it's not just calories in vs. calories out. At least not with me.

If I have a 100g carb meal from baked potato that elevates my blood sugar to 160 mg/dl and I have a 100g carb meal from oats that elevates my blood sugar to 120 mg/dl, it does not matter that I had 100g carbs, what matters is that the baked potato skyrocketted my blood sugar to 160mg/dl and the oats kept it lower at a reasonable 120 mg/dl.

In fact, the oats will leave me dryer looking and give me a better pump in the gym while the potato would make me look watery without the same pump. Go figure, same amount of carbs, different blood glucose results, different look to my body and results in the gym.

Again, there is no cookie cutter layout that works the same for everybody. But this is how my body responds.

It's similar to complete and incomplete proteins. You can eat 50g of protein from an incomplete source like beans. And you can eat 50g of protein from a complete source like red meat high in amino acids and get two completely different results. One anabolic and one not, even though you ate the same amount of protein.

 

[Whacked]

Both posts.......SPOT ON brutha

 

[sam805]

Great thread guys!!!

 

[saggy321]

I to have had the same experience using AP as described and evidenced in its write-up. It has been for me the best GDA for a recomp. I'm currently on recompradrol, whilst good it just isn't doing what AP did even with its plethora of ingredients. I'm going back to AP in a couple weeks with MMv3 to lean up for the summer. This combination hardened me up beautifully.

I have read some research in an article prepared by Derek Charlebois which talked about how Na-Rala when taken with exercise does preferentially dispose the glucose into the muscle cells. Something to do with the inflammation caused by training...I can't remember the details, but if anyone is interested the article is on bodybuilding.com.

 

[Clemenza]

Derek charlebois has great knowledge on this subject. I'm not sure if you've ever looked at his Cut Diet and the others he wrote up with scivation. All based around keeping blood sugar low. Most effective diet I've ever followed.

 

[saggy321]

Yeah I did. I've also followed the CHA diet, whilst good I don't like to watch my carb and fat intakes so closely now. I was having to prepared food at home and take it with me. Now I just try to hit the overall cal figure and not go much beyond 120g carbs a day. My problem with low carbs is that it does leave my constitution weak if that makes sense. I'm not too bad lifting weights, but I just feel weak on day to day basis.

 

[sam805]

So how do you guys feel about dats diet without pwo carbs with out insulin? Basically only ingesting carbs pre workout and obstaining from carbs until before your next resistance workout.

 

[Whacked]

I can't think of any GDA that wouldn't do the exact same thing

The friendly arguments in earlier posts had to do with a non-exercised state.

I have read some research in an article prepared by Derek Charlebois which talked about how Na-Rala when taken with exercise does preferentially dispose the glucose into the muscle cells. Something to do with the inflammation caused by training...I can't remember the details, but if anyone is interested the article is on bodybuilding.com.

 

[Whacked]

I've never tried it but it's pretty much the same concept as IM (intermittent Fasting) which is widely popular these days.

Here's a 2,734,865 page thread on it (lol): http://anabolicminds.com/forum/nutrition-health/174612-lean-gains-if.html

So how do you guys feel about dats diet without pwo carbs with out insulin? Basically only ingesting carbs pre workout and obstaining from carbs until before your next resistance workout.

 

[sam805]

Yes I've read up on if and tried it. It wasn't practical for me with working out at 530 and then working physical labor from 8 to 5 with only a 8 hr feeding window. But I can see how the point of both is to keep blood glucose low and insulin at bay for most of the day.

 

[saggy321]

IF has worked really well for me. It's been the easiest diet to follow and I dropped below 10% body fat using it with relative ease. The first week is a little tough but after that its is easy. In fact I found myself more productive during the fast especially mentally.

 

[sam805]

Saggy are you following cals or macros? If so what's your breakdowns?

 

[saggy321]

I can't think of any GDA that wouldn't do the exact same thing

The friendly arguments in earlier posts had to do with a non-exercised state.

That's a fair point and one I had in mind when I wrote the response. It's just that when you were discussing GDA selectivity or lack thereof the only research that came to mind was regarding Na-KRala, ingested whilst resistance training, referenced by Derek in his article.

 

[saggy321]

To be honest when I was following IF was only broadly tracking macros....if you asked my how many calories I was ingesting I couldn't tell you, but I ate pretty much what I wanted in two of the three meals in eight hour window as long as it had 40g or so of protein.

 

[sam805]

Cool thanks saggy