Best GDA for High Glycemic Carbohydrates

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by Tomahawk88 View Post
    I dont normally start threads(except logs), but with the responses I got I am glad I did.
    Amazing post to avi correlation.


  2. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Amazing post to avi correlation.
    Haha I didnt even think of that when I wrote it. I can not take credit for it. Heretostudy made it for one of my many logs.
    •   
       


  3. I concur.

    Drives me nuts to see all the BS claims stating that glucose AUTOMATICALLY preferentially ''favors" muscle cells verses fat cells.

    The hype can be blamed (as usual) on the supplement companies makig false/misleading claims.

    In an exercised state, perhaps (depends on other factors as well!). Otherwise, who the heck knows that you arent siimply clearing it out of the blood and into FAT CELLS!

    A glucometer would NOT discern the difference! Everyone wants an insulin mimetic these days but......do people forget that Insulin "can" make you fat. Know how? By shuttling carbs into FAT CELLS for storage (same thing a GDA "can" do)!

    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    There is no evidence that a GDA preferentially shuttles nutrients to muscle. Exercise, however, does. ).
    A-Minds HYPE-SLAYER! All posts & feedback are guaranteed to be unsolicited and legit
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  4. I hate to split hairs here but where is the proof that the increased insulin sensitivty is exclusively in the muslce cells vs adipose tissue?

    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    It won't. Improved insulin sensitivity = less insulin output. Insulin is far more powerful at doing it's job (fat storage included) than Na-R-ALA. So in essence, it may actually aid fat loss unless you are slamming Na-R-ALA in the complete absence of carbs but with a high fat meal.
    A-Minds HYPE-SLAYER! All posts & feedback are guaranteed to be unsolicited and legit
    "The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge. Fools despise wisdom & instruction"
    Proverbs 1:7

  5. Quote Originally Posted by Whacked View Post
    I concur.

    Drives me nuts to see all the BS claims stating that glucose AUTOMATICALLY preferentially ''favors" muscle cells verses fat cells.

    The hype can be blamed (as usual) on the supplement companies makig false/misleading claims.

    In an exercised state, perhaps (depends on other factors as well!). Otherwise, who the heck knows that you arent siimply clearing it out of the blood and into FAT CELLS!

    A glucometer would NOT discern the difference! Everyone wants an insulin mimetic these days but......do people forget that Insulin "can" make you fat. Know how? By shuttling carbs into FAT CELLS for storage (same thing a GDA "can" do)!

    Great Post Whacked!. Agree!
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  6. Awesome discussion.

    Everyone says "proof" about nutrient shuttling compounds, but can we see proof it doesn't?

    No wise ass or whatever. GDA's are very interesting, yet they seem to be in some what of an "infancy" as far as healthy adults goes.
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  7. Quote Originally Posted by Whacked View Post
    I concur.

    Drives me nuts to see all the BS claims stating that glucose AUTOMATICALLY preferentially ''favors" muscle cells verses fat cells.

    The hype can be blamed (as usual) on the supplement companies makig false/misleading claims.

    In an exercised state, perhaps (depends on other factors as well!). Otherwise, who the heck knows that you arent siimply clearing it out of the blood and into FAT CELLS!

    A glucometer would NOT discern the difference! Everyone wants an insulin mimetic these days but......do people forget that Insulin "can" make you fat. Know how? By shuttling carbs into FAT CELLS for storage (same thing a GDA "can" do)!
    Quote Originally Posted by Whacked View Post
    I hate to split hairs here but where is the proof that the increased insulin sensitivty is exclusively in the muslce cells vs adipose tissue?
    There isn't proof. I said the exact same thing in an earlier post. The point is that reducing insulin output in the presence of carbs can be favorable for fat loss. Which is why I said you should only take it when insulin would otherwise by high. If you take it with, say, a pure fat meal, you aren't doing yourself any favors. This is all theory of course.

  8. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    It won't. Improved insulin sensitivity = less insulin output. Insulin is far more powerful at doing it's job (fat storage included) than Na-R-ALA. So in essence, it may actually aid fat loss unless you are slamming Na-R-ALA in the complete absence of carbs but with a high fat meal.

    with insulin even a little bit of dietary fat is stored as fat. that is why people who take insulin, if they are well studied, take low fat as possible, meaning zero fat or close to it , four hours afterwards,, or it gets stored as body fat. That is why many top amateurs and pros use it only in the off-season and not before a show.

    carbohydratess it gobbles them up and stores them into the muscle. That said, you cant take 500 carbs in one meal. 10ius of insulin= about 75 carbs. two glycobols done on the glucometer test=about 10ius
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  9. Quote Originally Posted by John Smeton View Post
    with insulin even a little bit of dietary fat is stored as fat. that is why people who take insulin, if they are well studied, take low fat as possible, meaning zero fat or close to it , four hours afterwards,, or it gets stored as body fat. That is why many top amateurs and pros use it only in the off-season and not before a show.

    carbohydratess it gobbles them up and stores them into the muscle. That said, you cant take 500 carbs in one meal. 10ius of insulin= about 75 carbs. two glycobols done on the glucometer test=about 10ius
    Not sure of relevance to my post

  10. A person could take 500 carbs in one meal during the offseason, yet some of it would be stored as fat; provided a person used insulin.
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  11. Quick question, I have been using glycobol during my cut, essentially cycling carbs. Now I feel like an idiot as I am probably just raising my bodyfat %.

    So my question is, when would it be best to take glycobol in the hopes of cutting bodyfat%?

    that and if you have any input on the coupling of glycobol with freeze dried mango/ alpha yohimbe to prevent fat cells from growing.

    http://www.ergo-log.com/mangoreducefat.html
    "No citizen has a right to be an amateur in the matter of physical training...what a disgrace it is for a man to grow old without ever seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable." - Socrates

  12. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Not sure of relevance to my post


    you were saying carbs get stored as fat, if one knows what they are doing with insulin and the correct iu to carb ratio, not so much. Fat grams are what cause the fat storage with insulin. did you know that?
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  13. Quote Originally Posted by John Smeton View Post
    you were saying carbs get stored as fat, if one knows what they are doing with insulin and the correct iu to carb ratio, not so much. Fat grams are what cause the fat storage with insulin. did you know that?
    I don't know why you are trying to dispute me. You are echoing exactly what I just said. That you should take the Na-R-ALA with carb-laden meals to minimize fat gain, and you should not take it with fat. Did I know that? Come on now.

  14. Quote Originally Posted by oogaly_boogal View Post
    Quick question, I have been using glycobol during my cut, essentially cycling carbs. Now I feel like an idiot as I am probably just raising my bodyfat %.

    So my question is, when would it be best to take glycobol in the hopes of cutting bodyfat%?

    that and if you have any input on the coupling of glycobol with freeze dried mango/ alpha yohimbe to prevent fat cells from growing.

    http://www.ergo-log.com/mangoreducefat.html
    you would treat glycobol like real insulin taking first thing in morning with a high carb and protein meal(low fat), and post workout

    4 hours after each dose you would make sure carbs are low, then when four hours are up you can eat fat meals. That is why I don't like the insulin or using glycobol in place of it and just like to use it how I want to use it. If you want to be strict though, you would treat two caps to 10uis of insulin and follow the four hour very low to no fat guideline but that is a bit too strict for me at this point in my life so when i do use glycobol I do not follow that protocol to a T
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  15. What multi should I take guys
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  16. Quote Originally Posted by John Smeton View Post
    you would treat glycobol like real insulin taking first thing in morning with a high carb and protein meal(low fat), and post workout

    4 hours after each dose you would make sure carbs are low, then when four hours are up you can eat fat meals. That is why I don't like the insulin or using glycobol in place of it and just like to use it how I want to use it. If you want to be strict though, you would treat two caps to 10uis of insulin and follow the four hour very low to no fat guideline but that is a bit too strict for me at this point in my life.
    Na-R-ALA has a half-life exceeding 17 hours, not 4.

    You're looking into this way too far. If your fat intake isn't over the top, the glucosal disposal benefits are not going to hinder fat loss. It's your call of course .

  17. Quote Originally Posted by Powercage View Post
    What multi should I take guys
    I heard Orange Triad is good. Take 6.. not 3.. not 9.. but 6 a day and you're good
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  18. There's an abuandance of "proof" that these exotic insulin mimetics/GDA's work to clear the nutrients from the blood more rapidly or efficiently. Heck, even vinegar does this.

    There are also studies that reflect either improved glucose tolerance or increased insulin sensitvity.

    Insulin moves glucose out of the blood by increasing the presence of a glucose transporter (GLUT4) on the surface of MANY different cells (FAT CELLS included!)

    That said.......As expressed in my post above, the problem is that I have yet to see ONE compelling study that validates all these bogus claims that you can eat above your daily k/cal amount [or carb threshold (since we all metabolize/assimilate carbs differently)] + pop a few GDA caps and BOOM - no fat gain because magically, somehow, these OTC supplement companies have figured out a way to get carbs into the muscles as opposed to fat while Big Pharma hasn't. LOL

    On that note: Anyone hear of the Diabetes medication Avandia (THE mack daddy Insulin Sensitizer)? Read about how effective this stuff shuttles glucose out of the blood. THEN, read about WHERE IT GOES! lolol A strong argument could be made that you're better off with your Diabetes than to take this garbage. Sure, lower your post-prandial glucose readings and blow up your waistline AND damage your heart too. I'll pass.

    Cycle your carbs, ditch the simple sugars, favor low glycemic index carbs to avoid the scary boogey man insulin spikes all the GDAs are allegedly supposed to assist with.

    As an aside, since we are always discussing PPAR's for fat loss on this board- Avandia is a PPARγ(gamma) agonist. This is the one PPAR that you want to antagonize (for fat loss, etc) and NOT agonize. I think CLA is an antagonist but the results were always hit or miss.
    A-Minds HYPE-SLAYER! All posts & feedback are guaranteed to be unsolicited and legit
    "The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge. Fools despise wisdom & instruction"
    Proverbs 1:7

  19. Quote Originally Posted by John Smeton View Post
    you would treat glycobol like real insulin taking first thing in morning with a high carb and protein meal(low fat), and post workout

    4 hours after each dose you would make sure carbs are low, then when four hours are up you can eat fat meals. That is why I don't like the insulin or using glycobol in place of it and just like to use it how I want to use it. If you want to be strict though, you would treat two caps to 10uis of insulin and follow the four hour very low to no fat guideline but that is a bit too strict for me at this point in my life so when i do use glycobol I do not follow that protocol to a T
    thanks much appreciated, can't wait for the supplement that modulates GLUT4 and prevents fat cell build up haha
    "No citizen has a right to be an amateur in the matter of physical training...what a disgrace it is for a man to grow old without ever seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable." - Socrates

  20. Quote Originally Posted by Whacked View Post
    There's an abuandance of "proof" that these exotic insulin mimetics/GDA's work to clear the nutrients from the blood more rapidly or efficiently. Heck, even vinegar does this.

    There are also studies that reflect either improved glucose tolerance or increased insulin sensitvity.

    Insulin moves glucose out of the blood by increasing the presence of a glucose transporter (GLUT4) on the surface of MANY different cells (FAT CELLS included!)

    As expressed above, the problem is that have yet to see ONE compelling study that validates all these bogus claims that you can eat above your daily k/cal amount [or carb threshold (since we all metabolize/assimilate carbs differently)] + pop a few GDA caps and BOOM - no fat gain because magically, somehow, these OTC supplements have figufred out a way to get carbs into the muscles as opposed to fat while Big Pharma hasnt. LOL

    Anyone hear of the Diabetes medication Avandia (THE mack daddy Insulin Sensitizer)? Read about how effective this stuff shuttles glucose out fo the blood. THEN, read about WHERE IT GOES! lolol You're better off with Diabetes Type II than to take this garbage. Sure, lower your post-prandial glucose readiongs and blow up your waitline AND damage your heart too. I'll pass.

    Cycle your carbs, ditch the simple sugars, favor low glycemic index carbs to avoid the scary boogey man insulin spikes all the GDAs are allegedly supposed to assist with.

    As an aside, since we are always discussing PPAR's for fat loss on this board- Avandia is a PPARγ(gamma) agonist. This is the one PPAR that you want to antagonize (for fat loss, etc). I think CLA is one. Not sure.
    Agreed on all counts with respect to GDAs. In my first post, I even noted that he shouldn't be using one for the purpose that he was seeking. I am advocating Na-R-ALA for overall health purposes, NOT body composition. I'm only getting into this discussion because people thought they may be unfavorable​ for body composition.

  21. Quote Originally Posted by PuZo View Post
    I heard Orange Triad is good. Take 6.. not 3.. not 9.. but 6 a day and you're good
    Reported for suggesting a dosing strategy for a multi from another company
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  22. Everything Mr.Cooper69 has said has been accurate.
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  23. Amen bro

    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Agreed on all counts with respect to GDAs. In my first post, I even noted that he shouldn't be using one for the purpose that he was seeking. I am advocating Na-R-ALA for overall health purposes, NOT body composition. I'm only getting into this discussion because people thought they may be unfavorable​ for body composition.
    A-Minds HYPE-SLAYER! All posts & feedback are guaranteed to be unsolicited and legit
    "The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge. Fools despise wisdom & instruction"
    Proverbs 1:7

  24. Quote Originally Posted by John Smeton View Post
    you would treat glycobol like real insulin taking first thing in morning with a high carb and protein meal(low fat), and post workout

    4 hours after each dose you would make sure carbs are low, then when four hours are up you can eat fat meals. That is why I don't like the insulin or using glycobol in place of it and just like to use it how I want to use it. If you want to be strict though, you would treat two caps to 10uis of insulin and follow the four hour very low to no fat guideline but that is a bit too strict for me at this point in my life so when i do use glycobol I do not follow that protocol to a T
    I don't think you realize it improves insulin sensitivity and thus reduces net insulin release and all the associated feedback loops that insulin acts on.
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  25. ^^^


    Na-R-ALA does not act like insulin.
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  27. Quote Originally Posted by PuZo View Post
    I don't think you realize it improves insulin sensitivity and thus reduces net insulin release and all the associated feedback loops that insulin acts on.
    what the hell does this mean?!!!

    I'm lost at this point, so should I use it for body recomp or not? Would it assist at all in fat loss? I understand that it sends glucose to both fat and muscle cells through glut4 but would an increase if insulin sensitivity be a bad thing? My first run around with it I had success but I was also using erase/alpha yohimbe/ec and an insane workout regime.
    "No citizen has a right to be an amateur in the matter of physical training...what a disgrace it is for a man to grow old without ever seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable." - Socrates

  28. Quote Originally Posted by oogaly_boogal View Post
    what the hell does this mean?!!!

    I'm lost at this point, so should I use it for body recomp or not? Would it assist at all in fat loss? I understand that it sends glucose to both fat and muscle cells through glut4 but would an increase if insulin sensitivity be a bad thing? My first run around with it I had success but I was also using erase/alpha yohimbe/ec and an insane workout regime.
    Simple, use it. If you like it's effects well then there you go. It's something you should be using regardless of your reasoning. So if you use it under the guise of body recomp then so be it.
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  29. Save your money and stick with these - THAT'S where your success came from

    Quote Originally Posted by oogaly_boogal View Post
    but I was also using erase/alpha yohimbe/ec and an insane workout regime.
    A-Minds HYPE-SLAYER! All posts & feedback are guaranteed to be unsolicited and legit
    "The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge. Fools despise wisdom & instruction"
    Proverbs 1:7

  30. Quote Originally Posted by Whacked View Post
    Save your money and stick with these - THAT'S where your success came from
    I'll take it a step further...

    Quote Originally Posted by oogaly_boogal View Post
    an insane workout regime.
    THAT'S where your success came from
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