Why is soy protein hated?

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    A good resource for you to listen to:

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    Quote Originally Posted by fightbackhxc View Post
    I have heard recent talk about soy containing something inhibits protein synthesis. I cannot remember what it was called. Regardless, you don't hear people contemplating and arguing about whey.....so why not just buy whey protein? Its cheap enough and tried and true.
    I'll tell you,over the decades I've heard from A to Z about soy....the phtyoestrogens and flavones occupy estrogen receptors so the real estrogen can't occupy it, so it's good for men.....then you hear it acts like an estrogen at the receptor and men should avoid it.....it's a decent source of protein quality, then its a shyt source of quality protein....Then there are negative things like you mention thrown around about it... yada yada, you never know WHAT to make of soy protein. Like you say, why bother with it? there is whey, egg, casein powders galore and we know what they are all about for 100% sure.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WARBIRDWS6

    I'll tell you,over the decades I've heard from A to Z about soy....the phtyoestrogens and flavones occupy estrogen receptors so the real estrogen can't occupy it, so it's good for men.....then you hear it acts like an estrogen at the receptor and men should avoid it.....it's a decent source of protein quality, then its a shyt source of quality protein....Then there are negative things like you mention thrown around about it... yada yada, you never know WHAT to make of soy protein. Like you say, why bother with it? there is whey, egg, casein powders galore and we know what they are all about for 100% sure.
    Exactly much better sources out there....even plant wise there are better sources
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    Not quite..

    Soy increases AMPK activity. AMPK inhibits mTOR.

    PMID: 18420492

    But if I may point out, the above is a study using mice. In order for soy (or any other phytoestrogens) to do what it did in the above study you would need to figure out how much soy would be an equivalent amount for humans. So the question then becomes, how much soy does a human really need to consume in order to activate AMPK? Also, if adding something like extra BCAAs or whey to the soy be enough to counter the AMPK and its effect on mTOR?

    Again, as I said in my earlier post, as long as soy isnt you main protein source then getting minimal amounts here and there arent going to have a huge negative effect IMO

    Also, for what its worth, AMPK will also increase fat oxidation. Within that study above it showed large losses in body fat mass and not fat free mass.
    its funny you mention AMPK, ALA increases AMPK in muscles, but not in hypothalmus. ALA does the same thing.

    Use Leucine when using plant based proteins since their leucine content is lower then animal or milk based protein,
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    Quote Originally Posted by fightbackhxc View Post
    I have heard recent talk about soy containing something inhibits protein synthesis. I cannot remember what it was called.
    If you happen to remember, please share.


    In the meantime this is another reason for not having soy as a main source of protein

    Serum testosterone decreased 19%(+/-22%) during the 4-week use of soy protein powder (P = 0.021) and increased within 2 weeks after we discontinued soy protein powder-PMID 17416779



    Quote Originally Posted by fightbackhxc View Post
    Regardless, you don't hear people contemplating and arguing about whey.....so why not just buy whey protein? Its cheap enough and tried and true.
    Honestly if egg protein was cheaper I think it would be the superior choice out of all of them. Whey is just convenient and cheap.

    Quote Originally Posted by fightbackhxc View Post
    A good resource for you to listen to:

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    Thanks!

    Quote Originally Posted by ssbackwards View Post
    its funny you mention AMPK, ALA increases AMPK in muscles, but not in hypothalmus. ALA does the same thing.
    What about with berberine?

    I know berberine also activates AMPK

    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/showthread.php?t=172163 see post #9 for references

    Quote Originally Posted by ssbackwards View Post
    Use Leucine when using plant based proteins since their leucine content is lower then animal or milk based protein,
    pretty much what I said
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    berberine does the same as well.

    a lot do. however overall benefical effect plus most of our overconsumption of protein make this worry non existent.
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    because the amino acid ratio is much lower and proteins from meat content get absorbed the best, then dairy, then plant...that's why meat proteins are so popular
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colbert
    because the amino acid ratio is much lower and proteins from meat content get absorbed the best, then dairy, then plant...that's why meat proteins are so popular
    Thx.


    Everyone had good advice and great answers...
    I think I have a decent grasp on what to do know thx
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    Just finished a container of soy based protein powder and I'll never use it again. I tried it because it was half the price of comparably protein rich whey blends but I had a few issues... It mixed terribly and tasted awful but felt lighter in my stomach than whey blends usually do. I would recommend staying away from it. We are at the top of the food chain. We might as well enjoy our animal products. I think whey is the way to go.
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    Quote Originally Posted by McCoy1989
    Just finished a container of soy based protein powder and I'll never use it again. I tried it because it was half the price of comparably protein rich whey blends but I had a few issues... It mixed terribly and tasted awful but felt lighter in my stomach than whey blends usually do. I would recommend staying away from it. We are at the top of the food chain. We might as well enjoy our animal products. I think whey is the way to go.
    Good thoughts
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    The main reason why I brought this thread up is because MHP their macrobrolic meal replacements and Up Your Mass which appear to be the same list that they use super pro soy....

    Why would they push that so heavily in the lifting community if people feel ill about it.
    It makes me think of a vegetarian bodybuilder who gets his protein from plants/beans
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    Maybe they put a combo of all proteins in there, egg, milk, whey, soy so you get the benefit of each of them. If so, then soy should be lowest on the list (in the ingredients list section)....If soy is higher than the other proteins its probably due to them using it as cheap filler protein. As many have said on here, if you use like 10% or less of your protein intake from soy you should be OK with those products. Just be sure there isn't a lot of soy on there. But yeah, why add soy at all....reason you should see if its high on the list and they are using it basically as a cheap protein source.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WARBIRDWS6
    Maybe they put a combo of all proteins in there, egg, milk, whey, soy so you get the benefit of each of them. If so, then soy should be lowest on the list (in the ingredients list section)....If soy is higher than the other proteins its probably due to them using it as cheap filler protein. As many have said on here, if you use like 10% or less of your protein intake from soy you should be OK with those products. Just be sure there isn't a lot of soy on there. But yeah, why add soy at all....reason you should see if its high on the list and they are using it basically as a cheap protein source.
    I'm reading the lable: it's their "probolic" blend with "supro" soy protein, whey, and casein... And yeah soy comes first....
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    Quote Originally Posted by AaronJP1 View Post
    I'm reading the lable: it's their "probolic" blend with "supro" soy protein, whey, and casein... And yeah soy comes first....
    Ok, that equals NOT GOOD, bullsh1t product. Soy should be last if on there at all. Supro is just a quality brand name for soy, and it should not be first on the ingredients list. Its not gonna kill you or fuq you up mind you, if you bought it then just use it....but as far as in the future goes, I'd not re-up on it. On protein blend products, ALWAYS look at the ingredient list and make sure the better higher quality proteins are listed first and middle, and the lower quality are listed last (if at all).
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    Quote Originally Posted by WARBIRDWS6

    Ok, that equals NOT GOOD, bullsh1t product. Soy should be last if on there at all. Supro is just a quality brand name for soy, and it should not be first on the ingredients list. Its not gonna kill you or fuq you up mind you, if you bought it then just use it....but as far as in the future goes, I'd not re-up on it. On protein blend products, ALWAYS look at the ingredient list and make sure the better higher quality proteins are listed first and middle, and the lower quality are listed last (if at all).
    Right... I know how the label works carbs are of oats and barley and oat fiber that's the first ingredient which is great.... Then soy and the other proteins...

    Take a look at MHP up your mass.
    Or MHP macrobolic.
    I wonder why they chose soy though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AaronJP1 View Post
    Right... I know how the label works carbs are of oats and barley and oat fiber that's the first ingredient which is great.... Then soy and the other proteins...

    Take a look at MHP up your mass.
    Or MHP macrobolic.
    I wonder why they chose soy though.
    Its cheap and they save tons of money using soy as the bulk of the protein as opposed to more expensive whey or egg or casein. Then they hope people don't read the ingredient label, and just see the "50 GRAMS OF PROTEIN!" or whatever the amount is, and think OK good lol.......
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    Quote Originally Posted by WARBIRDWS6

    Its cheap and they save tons of money using soy as the bulk of the protein as opposed to more expensive whey or egg or casein. Then they hope people don't read the ingredient label, and just see the "50 GRAMS OF PROTEIN!" or whatever the amount is, and think OK good lol.......
    Yeah
    I liked they used good carb source.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AaronJP1 View Post
    Yeah
    I liked they used good carb source.
    the carb source is good, but again....the carbs are cheap too. as compared to protein. So they probably don't care what carb they use since its all relatively cheap for them, and i guess they figure to use the better carb source to keep people from investigating the protein sources lol.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WARBIRDWS6

    the carb source is good, but again....the carbs are cheap too. as compared to protein. So they probably don't care what carb they use since its all relatively cheap for them, and i guess they figure to use the better carb source to keep people from investigating the protein sources lol.
    yeah makes sense.
    I was looking for a good MRP powder.
    I looked at universal uni syn and I may give that go much higher in protein & quality but maltodextrin for carbs... but only 24g of them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AaronJP1 View Post
    yeah makes sense.
    I was looking for a good MRP powder.
    I looked at universal uni syn and I may give that go much higher in protein & quality but maltodextrin for carbs... but only 24g of them.
    just slam a can of tuna, 33g and no carbs........
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    Quote Originally Posted by AaronJP1 View Post
    yeah makes sense.
    I was looking for a good MRP powder.
    I looked at universal uni syn and I may give that go much higher in protein & quality but maltodextrin for carbs... but only 24g of them.
    well judging by your posts in nutrition section.....and what you eat and the amount lol.....I'd say maltodextrin is fine for you, especially in that amount of 24 grams. Its really best for PWO for some quick assimilating liquid carbs....but its not really that bad on the GI index if I recall. As I was saying though, you're eating a lot of cal's....like 4 grand, so a few hits of 24 grams maltodextrin is a drop in the pan really. Also the fats and other carbs from your milk/ice cream or what have you, or any fiber, will change the GI content of the carbs. Again judging from what you throw in your drinks lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by PVL

    just slam a can of tuna, 33g and no carbs........
    Aw sh1t 100 calories ain't going to do **** for me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WARBIRDWS6 View Post
    well judging by your posts in nutrition section.....and what you eat and the amount lol.....I'd say maltodextrin is fine for you, especially in that amount of 24 grams. Its really best for PWO for some quick assimilating liquid carbs....but its not really that bad on the GI index if I recall. As I was saying though, you're eating a lot of cal's....like 4 grand, so a few hits of 24 grams maltodextrin is a drop in the pan really. Also the fats and other carbs from your milk/ice cream or what have you, or any fiber, will change the GI content of the carbs. Again judging from what you throw in your drinks lol
    more like what he doesnt throw in his drinks, lol!

    aaron, take it easy on those big shakes man........no need for 30kcals a day man...........
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    True... Fuk it
    Thx for the help guys.

    I'm trying not to be a hardgainer
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    Quote Originally Posted by PVL View Post
    more like what he doesnt throw in his drinks, lol!

    aaron, take it easy on those big shakes man........no need for 30kcals a day man...........
    hahahahaha! nobody else would have probably believed me, but you saw "the shake" ingredient list. the 24 grams of maltodextrin equals "not a significant amount of calories to be counted" in THAT shake LOL!
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    Quote Originally Posted by WARBIRDWS6 View Post
    hahahahaha! nobody else would have probably believed me, but you saw "the shake" ingredient list. the 24 grams of maltodextrin equals "not a significant amount of calories to be counted" in THAT shake LOL!
    ****, thats one sip bro for him...........lmao!

    its like, have some shake with that sugar..............geez aaron..........take it easy or u will turn into michellin man bro........
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    best shake ive ever had.

    8 oz liquid egg whites, 4 scoop of chocolate pro complex (120g protein) 6 tablespoons home made macadamia/pecan butter, cinnamon. oh and ICE 8 cubes

    i only eat 2x a day Aaron. and this leaves me my nighttime indulgence of more fat. and 100-150g protein.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ssbackwards View Post
    best shake ive ever had.

    8 oz liquid egg whites, 4 scoop of chocolate pro complex (120g protein) 6 tablespoons home made macadamia/pecan butter, cinnamon. oh and ICE 8 cubes

    i only eat 2x a day Aaron. and this leaves me my nighttime indulgence of more fat. and 100-150g protein.
    see thats a decent shake without carbs man.........its the carbs/sugar that make u fat
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    Quote Originally Posted by PVL View Post
    see thats a decent shake without carbs man.........its the carbs/sugar that make u fat
    i bulk and cut the same way...

    no carbs.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PVL View Post
    see thats a decent shake without carbs man.........its the carbs/sugar that make u fat
    Carbs dont make you fat
    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates
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    Quote Originally Posted by ssbackwards View Post
    i bulk and cut the same way...

    no carbs.
    just add healthy fat and protein right? that what i do now, i usually keep carbs under 150 a day........being 240......i never get fat now
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    Quote Originally Posted by ssbackwards
    best shake ive ever had.

    8 oz liquid egg whites, 4 scoop of chocolate pro complex (120g protein) 6 tablespoons home made macadamia/pecan butter, cinnamon. oh and ICE 8 cubes

    i only eat 2x a day Aaron. and this leaves me my nighttime indulgence of more fat. and 100-150g protein.
    But you dont have 1 meal and 1 shake right?
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    Carbs dont make you fat
    post a pic..........prove me wrong
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    Quote Originally Posted by PVL View Post
    post a pic..........prove me wrong
    ?

    What does a picture prove?
    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates
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    Quote Originally Posted by AaronJP1 View Post
    But you dont have 1 meal and 1 shake right?
    i certainly hope not......u gotta split ur shakes up to about 4 to be honest, a lot of cals at one sitting isnt good. hard to digest it all at once and a lot will get stored as bodyfat
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    ?

    What does a picture prove?
    a thousand words........lmao
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    Quote Originally Posted by PVL View Post
    just add healthy fat and protein right? that what i do now, i usually keep carbs under 150 a day........being 240......i never get fat now
    my carbs are under 50 a day with fiber included.

    i dont eat carbs bc they hurt my stomach, in any form, and i have better energy with out them.

    carbs arent evil. and they dont really make you fat, its just mis used timing of it.

    id rather go over my calorie intake doing a refeed (carbs and protein only) then Fat, although i can do both because i allow myself to alternate between trhe 2, fat is already readily stored as fat.

    carbs still have to be converted.
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    This sh1t is crazy.
    Every1 has their own ideas on what works for them.

    I'm listing and combining them to try it out....
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    Quote Originally Posted by PVL View Post
    ****, thats one sip bro for him...........lmao!
    hahaha, you crack me up man. You got a similar sense of humor to me, but just more crazy LMFAO
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    Quote Originally Posted by AaronJP1 View Post
    But you dont have 1 meal and 1 shake right?
    nope i eat whole foods doing this diet.

    but if i didnt have time, i would have the shake.

    its really overall not that bad, it still ends up being a tone of whole food.
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