I feel this needs to be posted - Me, My Brain, and ALCAR

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by Jordinator View Post
    Anyone know of a quick way to undue the polymerization from ALA/ALCAR on things like a spoon? Curious if there is something quick and easy I might have lying around the house I can use...!
    Nothing off the top of my head. The simple fix is to take ALA 30 minutes prior to using ALCAR.


  2. Would there b any negative interaction with Paxil, I would really like to try some ALCAR for some mental sharpness and concentration...
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Nothing off the top of my head. The simple fix is to take ALA 30 minutes prior to using ALCAR.
    Problem I'm having is I use a 1/4tsp to measure out dosage and the residual powder on the spoon polymerizes. I now use two different spoons but my scale has a tray which has also been polymerized! This **** will NOT come off even with hot water and scrubbing. UGH. lol

  4. Quote Originally Posted by nattydisaster View Post
    If I was using ALCAR daily i would take an anti-oxidant. It has shown to have pro-oxidant effects at very high doses. Whether this translates to 1-2g per day I am not sure, but always better safe than sorry.

    Also don't just depend on ALCAR. The only part of ALCAR doing anything for memory or cognition is the acetyl group. It cleaves as soon as it hits the stomach, and having more acetyl groups available may allow for more production of acetylcholine.

    But knowing this, it is essential to supplement a choline with it to get more of the spectrum. Then you can get tricky and add an AChE inhibitor here and there
    Interesting. Gonna have to consider stacking ALCAR with choline and my racetams for some major synergy.

  5. I have heard that fluoride is a choline inhibitor. Anyone else heard that? Just another reason for me to drink cleaner water.
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  6. Quote Originally Posted by fightbackhxc View Post
    I have heard that fluoride is a choline inhibitor. Anyone else heard that? Just another reason for me to drink cleaner water.
    I bought a couple 3 gallon water jugs and make the trek to buy purified water once a week or so. I feel like people assume I'm a whack job/conspiracy theorist when I'm filling up but I don't care. :P

  7. Few ALCAR questions

    1. If using 750mg caps, should use 2 or 3 daily?
    2. Empty stomach, with food?
    3. I've read that ALCAR ought to be cycled, is that right?

  8. Quote Originally Posted by D3Baseball View Post
    Few ALCAR questions

    1. If using 750mg caps, should use 2 or 3 daily?
    2. Empty stomach, with food?
    3. I've read that ALCAR ought to be cycled, is that right?
    Do 3.
    Empty stomach for more profound acute effects, but for the cumulative effects, it doesn't matter.
    Yes, cycle it. Up to 3 months on (with an antioxidant), 1 month off.

  9. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Do 3.
    Empty stomach for more profound acute effects, but for the cumulative effects, it doesn't matter.
    Yes, cycle it. Up to 3 months on (with an antioxidant), 1 month off.
    Good thing SAN offers ALCAR and Na-R-ALA, eh?

    Thanks for the help sir!

  10. So if one were to take 2g ALCAR daily, is 200-300mg Na-R-ALA every other day sufficient?

  11. Quote Originally Posted by blacklac View Post
    So if one were to take 2g ALCAR daily, is 200-300mg Na-R-ALA every other day sufficient?
    Only in a chronic scenario (~6+ months based on the pro-oxidation demonstrated in a single study) would Na-R-ALA be necessary. However, it definitely has merit for overall health:

    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    ALCAR and R-ALA complement each other as antioxidants, but the primary reason the two are recommended together is due to consistent synergistic effects that have been observed by Dr. Ames, namely these 3 studies:

    Hagen TM, Liu J, Lykkesfeldt J, Wehr CM, Ingersoll RT, Vinarsky V, Bartholomew JC, Ames BN. Feeding acetyl-L-carnitine and lipoic acid to old rats significantly improves metabolic function while decreasing oxidative stress. Proc. Natl. Acad. Sci. USA 2002;99:1870-5.

    Liu J, Head E, Gharib AM, Yuan W, Ingersoll RT, Hagen TM, Cotman CW, Ames BN. Memory loss in old rats is associated with brain mitochondrial decay and RNA/DNA oxidation: Partial reversal by feeding acetyl-L-carnitine and/or R-α-lipoic acid. Proc. Natl. Acad. Sci. USA 2002;99:2356-61.

    Liu J, Killilea D, Ames BN. Age-associated mitochondrial oxidative decay: Improvement of carnitine acetyltransferase substrate binding affinity and activity in brain by feeding old rats acetyl-L-carnitine and/or R-α-lipoic acid. Proc. Natl. Acad. Sci. USA 2002;99:1876-81.




    What has often gotten misconstrued is that ALA can prevent the pro-oxidative effects of ALCAR. And in fact, it can reduce ALCAR-induced ROS and has been proven to do so. So why is this not important? ALCAR was shown to generate ROS at high doses. You should be using 2g/day anyway so this should be a non-issue, especially if you are cycling off alcar every few months.

    There are other studies that have examined the two in conjunction, but as is often the case, the research has not quite reached humans as of yet:

    R-alpha-lipoic acid and acetyl-L-carnitine complementarily promote mitochondrial biogenesis in murine 3T3-L1 adipocytes.

    Combined R-alpha-lipoic acid and acetyl-L-carnitine exerts efficient preventative effects in a cellular model of Parkinson's disease

    From the latter study, check out the abstract:

    Mitochondrial dysfunction and oxidative damage are highly involved in the pathogenesis of Parkinson's disease (PD). Some mitochondrial antioxidants/nutrients that can improve mitochondrial function and/or attenuate oxidative damage have been implicated in PD therapy. However, few studies have evaluated the preventative effects of a combination of mitochondrial antioxidants/nutrients against PD, and even fewer have sought to optimize the doses of the combined agents. The present study examined the preventative effects of two mitochondrial antioxidant/nutrients, R-alpha-lipoic acid (LA) and acetyl-L-carnitine (ALC), in a chronic rotenone-induced cellular model of PD. We demonstrated that 4-week pretreatment with LA and/or ALC effectively protected SK-N-MC human neuroblastoma cells against rotenone-induced mitochondrial dysfunction, oxidative damage and accumulation of alpha-synuclein and ubiquitin. Most notably, we found that when combined, LA and ALC worked at 100-1000-fold lower concentrations than they did individually. We also found that pretreatment with combined LA and ALC increased mitochondrial biogenesis and decreased production of reactive oxygen species through the up-regulation of the peroxisome proliferator-activated receptor-gamma coactivator 1alpha as a possible underlying mechanism. This study provides important evidence that combining mitochondrial antioxidant/nutrients at optimal doses might be an effective and safe prevention strategy for PD.


    As you can see, a synergistic effect has been consistently reported between the two antioxidants, and thus I would recommend taking them together (though not at EXACTLY the same time because ALCAR will polymerize with Na-R-ALA; take the Na-R-ALA 30 minutes prior to ingesting ALCAR). Add agmatine to that stack as well, take it first thing in the morning, and reap the benefits.

  12. Quote Originally Posted by Jordinator

    I bought a couple 3 gallon water jugs and make the trek to buy purified water once a week or so. I feel like people assume I'm a whack job/conspiracy theorist when I'm filling up but I don't care. :P
    My girlfriend convinced me to buy a fridge jug purifier, and now I'm spoiled. Tastes soooooooo much better than tap water.
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  13. Well, I too love ALCAR and feel the focus enhancing effects pretty acutely, however after a week or so of use it starts to disrupt my sleep patterns pretty badly...which then negates many of the feel-good properties. Racetams do the same, but even worse. Adjusting the dosages doesn't seem to matter. IF this weren't the case I'd be on ALCAR or piracetam a lot more often.

  14. Quote Originally Posted by bioman View Post
    Well, I too love ALCAR and feel the focus enhancing effects pretty acutely, however after a week or so of use it starts to disrupt my sleep patterns pretty badly...which then negates many of the feel-good properties. Racetams do the same, but even worse. Adjusting the dosages doesn't seem to matter. IF this weren't the case I'd be on ALCAR or piracetam a lot more often.
    Seems like you're sensitive to cholinergics...shame

  15. Taking 2 grams of L-Carnitine L-Tartrate makes me smell like fish and I have read about this being a side effect. I was wondering if this is the case with all carnitines and if there was a way to mitigate this side. For example I have read that taking chlorophyll helps.

  16. Quote Originally Posted by Thepaul7 View Post
    Taking 2 grams of L-Carnitine L-Tartrate makes me smell like fish and I have read about this being a side effect. I was wondering if this is the case with all carnitines and if there was a way to mitigate this side. For example I have read that taking chlorophyll helps.
    I experience the same fishy smell. It's even worse when I stack it with plcar. My gym shirt always smells like microwave tuna!!

  17. When do you start to notice effects from ALCAR? I'm only on day 2, but so far 1000mg doses give me incredibly faint headaches and 1500mg is a more noticeable mild headache. First day, I did 1000mg x 2 and this morning I dosed 1500mg (both morning shots were with 200mg SAN Na-R-ALA) and I will skip my PM dose... Course I plan on getting drunk tonight. Golf league night. Maybe I'll put down 750mg-1g anyways. I think I will drop to 500mg x 2 tomorrow and see how that works. Can't say I feel a think, mentally, but I know it will be subtle and may not be right away. I actually have quite a brain fog today... Been thinking of getting back on morning coffee lately... :/ Been off that for about 3 months.

    I have read someone else complain of fishy odors with high doses of ALCAR also, but he found out through friends. :/ lol. I believe he was mega dosing though, like 10g/day or something. I have also read Chloropyll can help with odors, but not specifically that. Might be worth a shot. I'd assume it will go away of its own once you stop anyway.

  18. Since my semester is done I will risk this thing of ALCAR I bought that gave me headaches. I think it might be D contaminated, I don't know.

    I used another brands ALCAR before with no issues, this NOW one is doing something to my head. I will even take a gram right now actually.

  19. Quote Originally Posted by tunnelrat View Post
    I experience the same fishy smell. It's even worse when I stack it with plcar. My gym shirt always smells like microwave tuna!!
    Yeah man my wife knows when I am taking it and I have been more or less banned from the stuff. lol. Some people just have a lower threshold I guess until they start smelling.

  20. Quote Originally Posted by SuppBro View Post
    Since my semester is done I will risk this thing of ALCAR I bought that gave me headaches. I think it might be D contaminated, I don't know.

    I used another brands ALCAR before with no issues, this NOW one is doing something to my head. I will even take a gram right now actually.
    Strange, this is seriously not the first case I've heard of NOW brand causing headaches.

    Blacklac, if you plan on drinking, I'd actually dose 2g ALCAR 30 minutes pre-alcohol consumption if​ the headaches aren't an issue

  21. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Strange, this is seriously not the first case I've heard of NOW brand causing headaches.

    Blacklac, if you plan on drinking, I'd actually dose 2g ALCAR 30 minutes pre-alcohol consumption if​ the headaches aren't an issue
    I got headaches from the SNS brand, but only while keto dieting


  22. Thanks, I will try that next time. I ended up only taking another 750mg before going out to the course. I'll see if I can tolerate 2g before next week. I'm using Primaforce bulk powder, by the way.

  23. So I'm just ordered so ALCAR, I tried it before and liked it but this thread made me order some more
    A couple of questions: should I take it everyday on empty stomach at the same time everyday or only before workouts? And is 1g good to start with?

    Thanks guys for starting this thread!

  24. Quote Originally Posted by alwaysfirst View Post
    So I'm just ordered so ALCAR, I tried it before and liked it but this thread made me order some more
    A couple of questions: should I take it everyday on empty stomach at the same time everyday or only before workouts? And is 1g good to start with?

    Thanks guys for starting this thread!
    You can honestly dose it however you want. Try to get 2g/day. Right now, I split it 1/1 on off days and 2g preworkout on workout days.

  25. I just added this to my nootropic stack a few days ago and see a HUGE spike in mental energy for 5-6 hours after taking 500mg. For me, it has to be taken on an empty stomach or it takes hours to kick in. If I take it first thing upon waking, I feel it in about 20-30 min and it just wakes my brain up. I stopped drinking coffee for the last 3 days because I just don't need it to get out of ZMA inducing sleep fog. We'll see if that lasts. 2g a day would have me feeling insane. I think this is something you need to experiment with, starting with a low dose and working up, which I would recommend rather than starting so high.

    Acetyl L-carnitine 500mg at wake up

    Aniracetam 750mg
    CoQ10 100mg
    Choline (usually alpha-gpc) 300mg
    Rhodiola Rosea 120mg 4% rosavin
    -all with a fatty meal

    I only take the 500mg of alcar in the morning to kick start my self and then I take this little stack again at 2pm. I will feel myself start to wind down around 8-9pm, just in time to shut my mind off for bed in a couple hours. It is perfect and has made such an incredible difference at work and in general when talking to people.
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