I feel this needs to be posted - Me, My Brain, and ALCAR - AnabolicMinds.com - Page 3

I feel this needs to be posted - Me, My Brain, and ALCAR

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    Quote Originally Posted by fightbackhxc View Post
    I have heard that fluoride is a choline inhibitor. Anyone else heard that? Just another reason for me to drink cleaner water.
    I bought a couple 3 gallon water jugs and make the trek to buy purified water once a week or so. I feel like people assume I'm a whack job/conspiracy theorist when I'm filling up but I don't care. :P

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    Few ALCAR questions

    1. If using 750mg caps, should use 2 or 3 daily?
    2. Empty stomach, with food?
    3. I've read that ALCAR ought to be cycled, is that right?
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    Quote Originally Posted by D3Baseball View Post
    Few ALCAR questions

    1. If using 750mg caps, should use 2 or 3 daily?
    2. Empty stomach, with food?
    3. I've read that ALCAR ought to be cycled, is that right?
    Do 3.
    Empty stomach for more profound acute effects, but for the cumulative effects, it doesn't matter.
    Yes, cycle it. Up to 3 months on (with an antioxidant), 1 month off.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Do 3.
    Empty stomach for more profound acute effects, but for the cumulative effects, it doesn't matter.
    Yes, cycle it. Up to 3 months on (with an antioxidant), 1 month off.
    Good thing SAN offers ALCAR and Na-R-ALA, eh?

    Thanks for the help sir!
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    So if one were to take 2g ALCAR daily, is 200-300mg Na-R-ALA every other day sufficient?
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    Quote Originally Posted by blacklac View Post
    So if one were to take 2g ALCAR daily, is 200-300mg Na-R-ALA every other day sufficient?
    Only in a chronic scenario (~6+ months based on the pro-oxidation demonstrated in a single study) would Na-R-ALA be necessary. However, it definitely has merit for overall health:

    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    ALCAR and R-ALA complement each other as antioxidants, but the primary reason the two are recommended together is due to consistent synergistic effects that have been observed by Dr. Ames, namely these 3 studies:

    Hagen TM, Liu J, Lykkesfeldt J, Wehr CM, Ingersoll RT, Vinarsky V, Bartholomew JC, Ames BN. Feeding acetyl-L-carnitine and lipoic acid to old rats significantly improves metabolic function while decreasing oxidative stress. Proc. Natl. Acad. Sci. USA 2002;99:1870-5.

    Liu J, Head E, Gharib AM, Yuan W, Ingersoll RT, Hagen TM, Cotman CW, Ames BN. Memory loss in old rats is associated with brain mitochondrial decay and RNA/DNA oxidation: Partial reversal by feeding acetyl-L-carnitine and/or R-α-lipoic acid. Proc. Natl. Acad. Sci. USA 2002;99:2356-61.

    Liu J, Killilea D, Ames BN. Age-associated mitochondrial oxidative decay: Improvement of carnitine acetyltransferase substrate binding affinity and activity in brain by feeding old rats acetyl-L-carnitine and/or R-α-lipoic acid. Proc. Natl. Acad. Sci. USA 2002;99:1876-81.




    What has often gotten misconstrued is that ALA can prevent the pro-oxidative effects of ALCAR. And in fact, it can reduce ALCAR-induced ROS and has been proven to do so. So why is this not important? ALCAR was shown to generate ROS at high doses. You should be using 2g/day anyway so this should be a non-issue, especially if you are cycling off alcar every few months.

    There are other studies that have examined the two in conjunction, but as is often the case, the research has not quite reached humans as of yet:

    R-alpha-lipoic acid and acetyl-L-carnitine complementarily promote mitochondrial biogenesis in murine 3T3-L1 adipocytes.

    Combined R-alpha-lipoic acid and acetyl-L-carnitine exerts efficient preventative effects in a cellular model of Parkinson's disease

    From the latter study, check out the abstract:

    Mitochondrial dysfunction and oxidative damage are highly involved in the pathogenesis of Parkinson's disease (PD). Some mitochondrial antioxidants/nutrients that can improve mitochondrial function and/or attenuate oxidative damage have been implicated in PD therapy. However, few studies have evaluated the preventative effects of a combination of mitochondrial antioxidants/nutrients against PD, and even fewer have sought to optimize the doses of the combined agents. The present study examined the preventative effects of two mitochondrial antioxidant/nutrients, R-alpha-lipoic acid (LA) and acetyl-L-carnitine (ALC), in a chronic rotenone-induced cellular model of PD. We demonstrated that 4-week pretreatment with LA and/or ALC effectively protected SK-N-MC human neuroblastoma cells against rotenone-induced mitochondrial dysfunction, oxidative damage and accumulation of alpha-synuclein and ubiquitin. Most notably, we found that when combined, LA and ALC worked at 100-1000-fold lower concentrations than they did individually. We also found that pretreatment with combined LA and ALC increased mitochondrial biogenesis and decreased production of reactive oxygen species through the up-regulation of the peroxisome proliferator-activated receptor-gamma coactivator 1alpha as a possible underlying mechanism. This study provides important evidence that combining mitochondrial antioxidant/nutrients at optimal doses might be an effective and safe prevention strategy for PD.


    As you can see, a synergistic effect has been consistently reported between the two antioxidants, and thus I would recommend taking them together (though not at EXACTLY the same time because ALCAR will polymerize with Na-R-ALA; take the Na-R-ALA 30 minutes prior to ingesting ALCAR). Add agmatine to that stack as well, take it first thing in the morning, and reap the benefits.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jordinator

    I bought a couple 3 gallon water jugs and make the trek to buy purified water once a week or so. I feel like people assume I'm a whack job/conspiracy theorist when I'm filling up but I don't care. :P
    My girlfriend convinced me to buy a fridge jug purifier, and now I'm spoiled. Tastes soooooooo much better than tap water.
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    Well, I too love ALCAR and feel the focus enhancing effects pretty acutely, however after a week or so of use it starts to disrupt my sleep patterns pretty badly...which then negates many of the feel-good properties. Racetams do the same, but even worse. Adjusting the dosages doesn't seem to matter. IF this weren't the case I'd be on ALCAR or piracetam a lot more often.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bioman View Post
    Well, I too love ALCAR and feel the focus enhancing effects pretty acutely, however after a week or so of use it starts to disrupt my sleep patterns pretty badly...which then negates many of the feel-good properties. Racetams do the same, but even worse. Adjusting the dosages doesn't seem to matter. IF this weren't the case I'd be on ALCAR or piracetam a lot more often.
    Seems like you're sensitive to cholinergics...shame
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    Taking 2 grams of L-Carnitine L-Tartrate makes me smell like fish and I have read about this being a side effect. I was wondering if this is the case with all carnitines and if there was a way to mitigate this side. For example I have read that taking chlorophyll helps.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thepaul7 View Post
    Taking 2 grams of L-Carnitine L-Tartrate makes me smell like fish and I have read about this being a side effect. I was wondering if this is the case with all carnitines and if there was a way to mitigate this side. For example I have read that taking chlorophyll helps.
    I experience the same fishy smell. It's even worse when I stack it with plcar. My gym shirt always smells like microwave tuna!!
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    When do you start to notice effects from ALCAR? I'm only on day 2, but so far 1000mg doses give me incredibly faint headaches and 1500mg is a more noticeable mild headache. First day, I did 1000mg x 2 and this morning I dosed 1500mg (both morning shots were with 200mg SAN Na-R-ALA) and I will skip my PM dose... Course I plan on getting drunk tonight. Golf league night. Maybe I'll put down 750mg-1g anyways. I think I will drop to 500mg x 2 tomorrow and see how that works. Can't say I feel a think, mentally, but I know it will be subtle and may not be right away. I actually have quite a brain fog today... Been thinking of getting back on morning coffee lately... :/ Been off that for about 3 months.

    I have read someone else complain of fishy odors with high doses of ALCAR also, but he found out through friends. :/ lol. I believe he was mega dosing though, like 10g/day or something. I have also read Chloropyll can help with odors, but not specifically that. Might be worth a shot. I'd assume it will go away of its own once you stop anyway.
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    Since my semester is done I will risk this thing of ALCAR I bought that gave me headaches. I think it might be D contaminated, I don't know.

    I used another brands ALCAR before with no issues, this NOW one is doing something to my head. I will even take a gram right now actually.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tunnelrat View Post
    I experience the same fishy smell. It's even worse when I stack it with plcar. My gym shirt always smells like microwave tuna!!
    Yeah man my wife knows when I am taking it and I have been more or less banned from the stuff. lol. Some people just have a lower threshold I guess until they start smelling.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuppBro View Post
    Since my semester is done I will risk this thing of ALCAR I bought that gave me headaches. I think it might be D contaminated, I don't know.

    I used another brands ALCAR before with no issues, this NOW one is doing something to my head. I will even take a gram right now actually.
    Strange, this is seriously not the first case I've heard of NOW brand causing headaches.

    Blacklac, if you plan on drinking, I'd actually dose 2g ALCAR 30 minutes pre-alcohol consumption if​ the headaches aren't an issue
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Strange, this is seriously not the first case I've heard of NOW brand causing headaches.

    Blacklac, if you plan on drinking, I'd actually dose 2g ALCAR 30 minutes pre-alcohol consumption if​ the headaches aren't an issue
    I got headaches from the SNS brand, but only while keto dieting

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    Thanks, I will try that next time. I ended up only taking another 750mg before going out to the course. I'll see if I can tolerate 2g before next week. I'm using Primaforce bulk powder, by the way.
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    So I'm just ordered so ALCAR, I tried it before and liked it but this thread made me order some more
    A couple of questions: should I take it everyday on empty stomach at the same time everyday or only before workouts? And is 1g good to start with?

    Thanks guys for starting this thread!
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    Quote Originally Posted by alwaysfirst View Post
    So I'm just ordered so ALCAR, I tried it before and liked it but this thread made me order some more
    A couple of questions: should I take it everyday on empty stomach at the same time everyday or only before workouts? And is 1g good to start with?

    Thanks guys for starting this thread!
    You can honestly dose it however you want. Try to get 2g/day. Right now, I split it 1/1 on off days and 2g preworkout on workout days.
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    I just added this to my nootropic stack a few days ago and see a HUGE spike in mental energy for 5-6 hours after taking 500mg. For me, it has to be taken on an empty stomach or it takes hours to kick in. If I take it first thing upon waking, I feel it in about 20-30 min and it just wakes my brain up. I stopped drinking coffee for the last 3 days because I just don't need it to get out of ZMA inducing sleep fog. We'll see if that lasts. 2g a day would have me feeling insane. I think this is something you need to experiment with, starting with a low dose and working up, which I would recommend rather than starting so high.

    Acetyl L-carnitine 500mg at wake up

    Aniracetam 750mg
    CoQ10 100mg
    Choline (usually alpha-gpc) 300mg
    Rhodiola Rosea 120mg 4% rosavin
    -all with a fatty meal

    I only take the 500mg of alcar in the morning to kick start my self and then I take this little stack again at 2pm. I will feel myself start to wind down around 8-9pm, just in time to shut my mind off for bed in a couple hours. It is perfect and has made such an incredible difference at work and in general when talking to people.
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    I've really been interested in the 'racetams lately. Only thing bothering me is they seem so hit or miss for people. I'd be pretty upset to buy a tub and be one of the people that don't notice anything.

    Did SNS discontinue Piracetam or is it just OOS? Any plans on any other racetams?
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    You don't need to spend a ton of money on a large amount. You can buy high quality racetams on Amazon or Ebay in bulk powder. They take some playing around with to get it right. For Ani, I read on here by a couple people that it doesn't need to be taken with food- it most certainly does. I didn't realize that until I researched further and saw that this is recommended, and then I saw the full effects. I just ordered Piracetam to put in the stack because Ani is so overwhelming with anti-anxiety properties, that I don't want to introduce something stronger yet. I want to get the cognitive benefits from piracetam and see how they gel. The last thing I want is to ruin the clear, relaxing feeling that Ani gives by adding something with an edge.
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    Headaches while on ALCAR or a racetam are a sign of choline deficiency.
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    I thought I had read ALCAR was a acetlycholine precursor?
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    Never heard of headaches from anyone taking alcar. In fact, a little research will tell you that if you are taking racetams and alcar, you don't need another choline source.
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    A little research and a lot of personal experience has shown me the opposite. Racetams speed up the use of choline/acetylcholine in the brain. It is not uncommon for users, self included, to start having headaches, lethargy etc from racetam use until concurrent choline supplementation is initiated. Sides while using ALCAR can be from a variety of things depending on the user. I've had colleagues respond poorly to ALCAR who probably just didn't need the acetylcholine boost. They ended up way too hyped up, sweating and anxious. No noot is perfect for everyone despite this board's love affair with ALCAR.
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    Maybe I worded it wrong because I didn't mean it to sound like Alcar was the only or even the preferred choline source with racetams.

    Your comment about people reacting badly with alcar is exactly why I would recommend starting low and working up. I would be the guy sweating my ass off and being uncomfortable at 2g, but 500mg is so perfect.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    It is utilized perfectly fine. I like to use Na-R-Ala on the day I use ALCAR for the antioxidant properties.
    Good read below.

    I took some Alcar this morning.


    IntJ Vitam Nutr Res. 2005 Jan;75(1):3-9.
    Free and total carnitine concentrations in pig plasmaafter oral ingestion of various L-carnitine compounds.
    Eder K, Felgner J, Becker K, Kluge H.
    Source
    Instituteof Nutritional Sciences, Martin-Luther-University Halle-Wittenberg, Emil-Abderhalden-Strasse26, 06108 Halle/Saale, Germany. eder@landw.uni-halle.de
    Abstract
    Thisstudy was undertaken to investigate the bioavailability of various L-carnitineesters (acetyl-L-carnitine and lauroyl-L-carnitine) and salts (L-carnitineL-tartrate, L-carnitine fumarate, L-carnitine magnesium citrate) relative tobase of free L-carnitine. Six groups of five or six piglets each wereadministered orally a single dose of 40 mg L-carnitine equivalents/kg bodyweight of each of those L-carnitine compounds. A seventh group served as acontrol. Free and total plasma carnitine concentrations were determined 1, 2,3.5, 7, 24, and 32 hours after administration of the single dose.Area-under-the-curve (AUC) values were calculated to assess the bioavailabilityof the L-carnitine compounds. AUC values, calculated for the time intervalbetween 0 and 32 hours, for both free and total carnitine were similar for baseof free L-carnitine and the three L-carnitine salts (L-carnitine L-tartrate,L-carnitine fumarate, L-carnitine magnesium citrate) while those of the twoesters (acetyl-L-carnitine, lauroyl-L-carnitine) were lower. Administration ofL-carnitine L-tartrate yielded a higher plasma free carnitine AUC value for thetime interval between 0 and 3.5 hours than administration of the othercompounds. The data of this study suggest that L-carnitine salts have a similarbioavailability to that of free L-carnitine while L-carnitine esters have alower one. The study also suggests that L-carnitine L-tartrate is absorbedfaster than the other L-carnitine compounds.
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    Kisaj- no worries, just comparing notes. I think each choline source behaves very differently. I find using choline citrate or tartarate provides a more predictable responds than the ALCARS. The latter definitely is more potent, but some undesirable effects come with it for me.

    I've been dabbling with Acetyl-L-Carnitine Fumarate lately. Seems to a bit more physical energy rather than mental...but also disrupts my sleep at anything over 1g per day.
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    Quote Originally Posted by blacklac View Post
    I've really been interested in the 'racetams lately. Only thing bothering me is they seem so hit or miss for people. I'd be pretty upset to buy a tub and be one of the people that don't notice anything.

    Did SNS discontinue Piracetam or is it just OOS? Any plans on any other racetams?
    Our Piracetam was only a single-run item, so whatever was available at the time of the initial production was it. I haven't heard of any of our Piracetam being in stock anywhere in the past 8+ months.
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    Quote Originally Posted by antihero View Post
    Our Piracetam was only a single-run item, so whatever was available at the time of the initial production was it. I haven't heard of any of our Piracetam being in stock anywhere in the past 8+ months.
    Seeing as Piracetam is back is it possible you guys will make another run of it?
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    Piracetam is common, why would there only be one run of it?
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    Quote Originally Posted by kisaj View Post
    Piracetam is common, why would there only be one run of it?
    Probably because at the time the FDA sent out a bunch of warning letters to companies making it and they stopped making it to avoid legal troubles. I'm not positive on that though, so correct me if I'm wrong.
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    I was going to post this in the nootropics thread, but this one is more active. An interesting thing I noticed, and have read that this is somewhat common when I began researching nootropics, is the slight sense of arrogance or ****iness I feel since starting these. It really came to light when I added Piracetam to the stack, but my wife even made a comment about me correcting her or other people. I feel this constant sense of clarity and confidence from being "with it" and I notice everything now about the way that people talk or act. It's something I am sure you get used to and it wanes, but to feel so mentally strong is a big confidence booster.

    Piracetam is known as the weaker of the racetams, but while I think Aniracetam will always be part of my life now because of the anti-anxiety properties, Piracetam really is strong in the logical impact. I noticed this almost right away. I did add Alcar and Piracetam around the same time, so it is an added variable, but based on the info I know on Piracetam, it is this.
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    This thread is awesome. I've been steadily becoming more and more interested in nootropics as a whole. I'm going into my junior year of undergrad health science studies and the idea of trying out nootropics for a little bit more awareness, added focus, and an increase in memory is becoming hard to resist. Also if they can add in other benefits to overall wellbeing its even harder to purchase other supplements over them.
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  36. New Member
    RipdnTxs's Avatar
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    Does anyone have any experience using Alcar while on SSRIs ??? I take 15 mg Paxil daily and I could really use a boost in overall cognitive function. I just dont feel nearly as sharp or able to retain info like I used too..
  37. Advanced Member
    Est1969's Avatar
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    Coop:

    Just checking in...are you still taking 1-2g per day? How are you dosing it during the day?

    Just got my bottle today. Looking forward to trying it. Also, as someone who has about 4-6 lucid dreams a year, hoping that this stuff will increase the frequency!

    Cheers,


    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    I have been a long-time user of ALCAR and have always loved it. I used it consistently before studying or training for the major focus effects, but I was also aware of its other benefits like neuroprotection. Well recently (as in, 2 months ago), I changed my ALCAR dosing. Rather than taking it sporadically whenever I needed a boost, I use 1-2g every day, split into 1g doses. Over the past 2 months, I have noticed a vast change in my life and I really want to help others realize just how significant this ingredient is.

    From my consistent usage, I have noticed a DRAMATIC increase in sharpness and memory. As far as school goes, I need far less time to get my assignments done. I am notorious for making silly mistakes in math exams/homework etc...I always get the concepts but the silly mistakes kill me. Well, in the past 2 months, I have lost a total of 1 point in my math class. I'm not saying this to brag, but my point is that this has never occurred in the past: my study habits quite literally haven't changed one bit. In fact, a 2nd consecutive 100% on a very long math exam (not multiple choice; just tons of calculations) prompted me to write this because I feel that others stand to benefit from this as well. To put it simply, I feel sharp and focused all the time, and can recall things from memory with more ease than ever.

    But there are other things I've noticed too -- major things. I still drink occasionally, and when I drink, it's usually quite a bit. During the following days, or even the entire following week, I feel foggier. ALCAR seems to reverse these effects if taken at 2g prior to drinking as I have. This makes sense scientifically as well, as ALCAR is demonstrated to help prevent alcohol-induced neurodegeneration.

    I have also been bulking the past few months. I'm not sure if it's the ALCAR or other factors, but I have kept fat at a reasonable level despite eating a "dirty" diet. ALCAR may indeed aid with staying lean.

    Finally, something I've been enjoying: vivid, and even LUCID, dreams. The mental stimulation caused by ALCAR likely causes this, and it is awesome.

    I can't stress enough that these benefits did not manifest themselves until I used ALCAR continuously at 1-2g/day, rather than sporadically.

    This may not sound like "all that" to a bodybuilder, but please realize just how important the mind is to bodybuilding. I feel sharper, I feel happier, I feel on-top-of-things. I sleep better. ALCAR has made my life better, and if that doesn't affect bodybuilding, I don't know what does.

    Anyway, that's my story. Just wanted to get the word out because this ingredient does not get nearly the amount of love that it should. A true staple for me.
  38. New Member
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    You were the one who turned me onto ALCAR a while ago with my body building stack. I continue to take it everyday and continue to order more every month, it's great stuff. You are the best coop.
  39. Diamond Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Est1969 View Post
    Coop:

    Just checking in...are you still taking 1-2g per day? How are you dosing it during the day?

    Just got my bottle today. Looking forward to trying it. Also, as someone who has about 4-6 lucid dreams a year, hoping that this stuff will increase the frequency!

    Cheers,
    I am taking 2g/day. On off days, 1 split it 1 AM, 1 midday. On workout days, I take 2g preworkout.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheArchitect View Post
    You were the one who turned me onto ALCAR a while ago with my body building stack. I continue to take it everyday and continue to order more every month, it's great stuff. You are the best coop.
    No problem man, the stuff rocks!
    http://pescience.com/
    http://selectprotein.com/
    The above is my own opinion and does not reflect the opinion of PES
  40. New Member
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    Oh Coop I love you!

    You're so smart!

    Did I mention how jacked you are? You're jacked!

    And smart!

    Marry me?
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