I feel this needs to be posted - Me, My Brain, and ALCAR

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by Daycrawler View Post
    Jesus. 60 caps for $15... Dosed properly @ 600mg it lasts 10 daysss. Fuuuuui
    1) SAN's NA-R-ALA is better than other's, according to numerous comments I've seen from people who've used other brands. Effects are better.

    2) You don't need 600mg to get the anti-ox benefits.

    It's better then a cup of coffee IMO.
    OK, now you're just ****ing with me.

























  2. Quote Originally Posted by itzDodge View Post
    Hence my 100-200 suggestion, considering most people always go a little bit over anyways. If you're looking for it's anti-oxidant properties then you'll likely want 200+ but I assumed since she was stacking it with SS it was more so for blood sugar control and even though I don't know many people who have gone hypo from OTC GDAs why not just start from the base dosage and work up. Even GeroNova recommends 100mg with meals as a starting point
    100mg can kick my ass.
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    I am not disagreeing with your suggestion lol, maybe I shouldn't have multi-quoted that one . I personally would use 200mg Na-R-Ala + SS in her specific situation because she is using ALCAR (I know from PMs). As far as blood glucose control, I like to look at it from a Na-R-Ala dose per day rather than per meal due to its long half-life.
    I have learned much from you sir. What would your recommended daily dosage of Na-R-ALA be, 500-600mg?


  4. Quote Originally Posted by poison View Post
    1) SAN's NA-R-ALA is better than other's, according to numerous comments I've seen from people who've used other brands. Effects are better.
    Quality Na-R-ALA is an issue when purchasing thats why I usually suggest to see if it's GeroNova they sourced from as thats the only quality produces I know of. I actually recall way back Sldge had mentioned in R&D at one point they were comparing Na-R-ALA and GeroNova's had the best results, even doubling on lower quality ones wasn't achieving the same levels and its most likely due to stability issues, ergo quality.


  5. Quote Originally Posted by itzDodge View Post
    I have learned much from you sir. What would your recommended daily dosage of Na-R-ALA be, 500-600mg?
    400mg-600mg a day gets the job done for me; I stick with 400mg when my carbs are low, 600 otherwise. Despite what you may think, I'm never too precise about the measurements .
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  6. AnabolicMinds Site Rep
    MidwestBeast's Avatar

    Congrats on making the newsletter, Coop.

    Fantastic thread with a ton of information. I used to take ALCAR pretty religiously and then just stopped; this seems like good enough reason to start back up.

  7. Quote Originally Posted by MidwestBeast
    Congrats on making the newsletter, Coop.

    Fantastic thread with a ton of information. I used to take ALCAR pretty religiously and then just stopped; this seems like good enough reason to start back up.
    Its so cheap too. Quality product.
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  8. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    400mg-600mg a day gets the job done for me; I stick with 400mg when my carbs are low, 600 otherwise. Despite what you may think, I'm never too precise about the measurements .
    I picture you sitting there scraping granules of Na-R-ALA off the top of your scooper which you've already whittled down so the scoop measures exactly 200mg every time. There is a stop watch and alarm set to measure precisely 30 minutes before you are allowed to eat/dose other compounds.


  9. Quote Originally Posted by itzDodge

    I picture you sitting there scraping granules of Na-R-ALA off the top of your scooper which you've already whittled down so the scoop measures exactly 200mg every time. There is a stop watch and alarm set to measure precisely 30 minutes before you are allowed to eat/dose other compounds.
    He is that anal.
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  10. man this sounds too good to be true. i gotta go to the lab (google) and research this thoroughly, for myself.

  11. Quote Originally Posted by nattydisaster View Post
    If I was using ALCAR daily i would take an anti-oxidant. It has shown to have pro-oxidant effects at very high doses. Whether this translates to 1-2g per day I am not sure, but always better safe than sorry.
    All antioxidants act as free radicals when taken in too high of a dose, not just ALCAR. If this is what's going on, I don't think it would be of benefit to take even more antioxidants. It would be like trying to put out a fire with vodka...

  12. Quote Originally Posted by Vengeance187 View Post
    All antioxidants act as free radicals when taken in too high of a dose, not just ALCAR. If this is what's going on, I don't think it would be of benefit to take even more antioxidants. It would be like trying to put out a fire with vodka...
    Not unless you are using those antioxidants to a degree that pro-oxidation becomes an issue. Use the ALCAR daily, use the supporting antioxidant less frequently and at a relatively low dose.

    Just thought I would update: this past week I had a very rough schedule, one of the worst in the past year. I slept 2 hours in 4 days and was bombarded with exams, term papers, and the like...all of which I had put off due to Thanksgiving and applications. As far as anecdote, ALCAR played a pretty signficant acute role in combating mental fatigue. It seemed that after a 1-2g dose, I felt much more mentally fresh. This is not something I notice under normal circumstances...while I get focus, I do not get this kind of "mental second wind." But under fatigued circumstances, ALCAR seems to normalize brain function, at least in my experiences. Hope this helps any of you who have those dreaded weeks without any sleep; take your ALCAR at your lowest points during the day to optimize mental performance!

  13. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Not unless you are using those antioxidants to a degree that pro-oxidation becomes an issue. Use the ALCAR daily, use the supporting antioxidant less frequently and at a relatively low dose.

    Just thought I would update: this past week I had a very rough schedule, one of the worst in the past year. I slept 2 hours in 4 days and was bombarded with exams, term papers, and the like...all of which I had put off due to Thanksgiving and applications. As far as anecdote, ALCAR played a pretty signficant acute role in combating mental fatigue. It seemed that after a 1-2g dose, I felt much more mentally fresh. This is not something I notice under normal circumstances...while I get focus, I do not get this kind of "mental second wind." But under fatigued circumstances, ALCAR seems to normalize brain function, at least in my experiences. Hope this helps any of you who have those dreaded weeks without any sleep; take your ALCAR at your lowest points during the day to optimize mental performance!
    thats awesome man, sad to hear you had to undergo that kind of mental stress though to really test ALCAR good luck on all the school stuff.
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  14. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Not unless you are using those antioxidants to a degree that pro-oxidation becomes an issue. Use the ALCAR daily, use the supporting antioxidant less frequently and at a relatively low dose.

    Just thought I would update: this past week I had a very rough schedule, one of the worst in the past year. I slept 2 hours in 4 days and was bombarded with exams, term papers, and the like...all of which I had put off due to Thanksgiving and applications. As far as anecdote, ALCAR played a pretty signficant acute role in combating mental fatigue. It seemed that after a 1-2g dose, I felt much more mentally fresh. This is not something I notice under normal circumstances...while I get focus, I do not get this kind of "mental second wind." But under fatigued circumstances, ALCAR seems to normalize brain function, at least in my experiences. Hope this helps any of you who have those dreaded weeks without any sleep; take your ALCAR at your lowest points during the day to optimize mental performance!
    Right with you there man. Averaging 3ish hours for sleep so far...
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  15. Anyone know of a quick way to undue the polymerization from ALA/ALCAR on things like a spoon? Curious if there is something quick and easy I might have lying around the house I can use...!

  16. Quote Originally Posted by Jordinator View Post
    Anyone know of a quick way to undue the polymerization from ALA/ALCAR on things like a spoon? Curious if there is something quick and easy I might have lying around the house I can use...!
    Nothing off the top of my head. The simple fix is to take ALA 30 minutes prior to using ALCAR.

  17. Would there b any negative interaction with Paxil, I would really like to try some ALCAR for some mental sharpness and concentration...

  18. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Nothing off the top of my head. The simple fix is to take ALA 30 minutes prior to using ALCAR.
    Problem I'm having is I use a 1/4tsp to measure out dosage and the residual powder on the spoon polymerizes. I now use two different spoons but my scale has a tray which has also been polymerized! This **** will NOT come off even with hot water and scrubbing. UGH. lol

  19. Quote Originally Posted by nattydisaster View Post
    If I was using ALCAR daily i would take an anti-oxidant. It has shown to have pro-oxidant effects at very high doses. Whether this translates to 1-2g per day I am not sure, but always better safe than sorry.

    Also don't just depend on ALCAR. The only part of ALCAR doing anything for memory or cognition is the acetyl group. It cleaves as soon as it hits the stomach, and having more acetyl groups available may allow for more production of acetylcholine.

    But knowing this, it is essential to supplement a choline with it to get more of the spectrum. Then you can get tricky and add an AChE inhibitor here and there
    Interesting. Gonna have to consider stacking ALCAR with choline and my racetams for some major synergy.

  20. I have heard that fluoride is a choline inhibitor. Anyone else heard that? Just another reason for me to drink cleaner water.
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  21. Quote Originally Posted by fightbackhxc View Post
    I have heard that fluoride is a choline inhibitor. Anyone else heard that? Just another reason for me to drink cleaner water.
    I bought a couple 3 gallon water jugs and make the trek to buy purified water once a week or so. I feel like people assume I'm a whack job/conspiracy theorist when I'm filling up but I don't care. :P

  22. Few ALCAR questions

    1. If using 750mg caps, should use 2 or 3 daily?
    2. Empty stomach, with food?
    3. I've read that ALCAR ought to be cycled, is that right?

  23. Quote Originally Posted by D3Baseball View Post
    Few ALCAR questions

    1. If using 750mg caps, should use 2 or 3 daily?
    2. Empty stomach, with food?
    3. I've read that ALCAR ought to be cycled, is that right?
    Do 3.
    Empty stomach for more profound acute effects, but for the cumulative effects, it doesn't matter.
    Yes, cycle it. Up to 3 months on (with an antioxidant), 1 month off.

  24. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Do 3.
    Empty stomach for more profound acute effects, but for the cumulative effects, it doesn't matter.
    Yes, cycle it. Up to 3 months on (with an antioxidant), 1 month off.
    Good thing SAN offers ALCAR and Na-R-ALA, eh?

    Thanks for the help sir!

  25. So if one were to take 2g ALCAR daily, is 200-300mg Na-R-ALA every other day sufficient?

  26. Quote Originally Posted by blacklac View Post
    So if one were to take 2g ALCAR daily, is 200-300mg Na-R-ALA every other day sufficient?
    Only in a chronic scenario (~6+ months based on the pro-oxidation demonstrated in a single study) would Na-R-ALA be necessary. However, it definitely has merit for overall health:

    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    ALCAR and R-ALA complement each other as antioxidants, but the primary reason the two are recommended together is due to consistent synergistic effects that have been observed by Dr. Ames, namely these 3 studies:

    Hagen TM, Liu J, Lykkesfeldt J, Wehr CM, Ingersoll RT, Vinarsky V, Bartholomew JC, Ames BN. Feeding acetyl-L-carnitine and lipoic acid to old rats significantly improves metabolic function while decreasing oxidative stress. Proc. Natl. Acad. Sci. USA 2002;99:1870-5.

    Liu J, Head E, Gharib AM, Yuan W, Ingersoll RT, Hagen TM, Cotman CW, Ames BN. Memory loss in old rats is associated with brain mitochondrial decay and RNA/DNA oxidation: Partial reversal by feeding acetyl-L-carnitine and/or R-α-lipoic acid. Proc. Natl. Acad. Sci. USA 2002;99:2356-61.

    Liu J, Killilea D, Ames BN. Age-associated mitochondrial oxidative decay: Improvement of carnitine acetyltransferase substrate binding affinity and activity in brain by feeding old rats acetyl-L-carnitine and/or R-α-lipoic acid. Proc. Natl. Acad. Sci. USA 2002;99:1876-81.




    What has often gotten misconstrued is that ALA can prevent the pro-oxidative effects of ALCAR. And in fact, it can reduce ALCAR-induced ROS and has been proven to do so. So why is this not important? ALCAR was shown to generate ROS at high doses. You should be using 2g/day anyway so this should be a non-issue, especially if you are cycling off alcar every few months.

    There are other studies that have examined the two in conjunction, but as is often the case, the research has not quite reached humans as of yet:

    R-alpha-lipoic acid and acetyl-L-carnitine complementarily promote mitochondrial biogenesis in murine 3T3-L1 adipocytes.

    Combined R-alpha-lipoic acid and acetyl-L-carnitine exerts efficient preventative effects in a cellular model of Parkinson's disease

    From the latter study, check out the abstract:

    Mitochondrial dysfunction and oxidative damage are highly involved in the pathogenesis of Parkinson's disease (PD). Some mitochondrial antioxidants/nutrients that can improve mitochondrial function and/or attenuate oxidative damage have been implicated in PD therapy. However, few studies have evaluated the preventative effects of a combination of mitochondrial antioxidants/nutrients against PD, and even fewer have sought to optimize the doses of the combined agents. The present study examined the preventative effects of two mitochondrial antioxidant/nutrients, R-alpha-lipoic acid (LA) and acetyl-L-carnitine (ALC), in a chronic rotenone-induced cellular model of PD. We demonstrated that 4-week pretreatment with LA and/or ALC effectively protected SK-N-MC human neuroblastoma cells against rotenone-induced mitochondrial dysfunction, oxidative damage and accumulation of alpha-synuclein and ubiquitin. Most notably, we found that when combined, LA and ALC worked at 100-1000-fold lower concentrations than they did individually. We also found that pretreatment with combined LA and ALC increased mitochondrial biogenesis and decreased production of reactive oxygen species through the up-regulation of the peroxisome proliferator-activated receptor-gamma coactivator 1alpha as a possible underlying mechanism. This study provides important evidence that combining mitochondrial antioxidant/nutrients at optimal doses might be an effective and safe prevention strategy for PD.


    As you can see, a synergistic effect has been consistently reported between the two antioxidants, and thus I would recommend taking them together (though not at EXACTLY the same time because ALCAR will polymerize with Na-R-ALA; take the Na-R-ALA 30 minutes prior to ingesting ALCAR). Add agmatine to that stack as well, take it first thing in the morning, and reap the benefits.

  27. Quote Originally Posted by Jordinator

    I bought a couple 3 gallon water jugs and make the trek to buy purified water once a week or so. I feel like people assume I'm a whack job/conspiracy theorist when I'm filling up but I don't care. :P
    My girlfriend convinced me to buy a fridge jug purifier, and now I'm spoiled. Tastes soooooooo much better than tap water.
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  28. Well, I too love ALCAR and feel the focus enhancing effects pretty acutely, however after a week or so of use it starts to disrupt my sleep patterns pretty badly...which then negates many of the feel-good properties. Racetams do the same, but even worse. Adjusting the dosages doesn't seem to matter. IF this weren't the case I'd be on ALCAR or piracetam a lot more often.

  29. Quote Originally Posted by bioman View Post
    Well, I too love ALCAR and feel the focus enhancing effects pretty acutely, however after a week or so of use it starts to disrupt my sleep patterns pretty badly...which then negates many of the feel-good properties. Racetams do the same, but even worse. Adjusting the dosages doesn't seem to matter. IF this weren't the case I'd be on ALCAR or piracetam a lot more often.
    Seems like you're sensitive to cholinergics...shame

  30. Taking 2 grams of L-Carnitine L-Tartrate makes me smell like fish and I have read about this being a side effect. I was wondering if this is the case with all carnitines and if there was a way to mitigate this side. For example I have read that taking chlorophyll helps.
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